Soulknife is hands down my favorite subclass of rogue, likely to the point that I'm not really interested in other rogue subclasses at all. However the only thing I don't care for is the lack of weapon progression. Where basically everyone else in the game has options to get a better weapon with cool magic properties as their tables progress the soulknife remains stagnant with their only damage gains coming from Sneak Attack.
I suppose what I'd really like to ask is, how many people homebrew the handling of Psychic Blades vs requiring your players to face the realities of their subclass selection that you ultimately have no benefits from magical weapons throughout the campaign.
My DM just gave my soulknife a +2 Dagger. And I have ideas for how to do some interesting Homebrew but another friend at the table sees Homebrew of things like this as a violation of RAW and shouldn't be allowed
Homing Knives is effective +4.5 to hit with Psychic Blades at level 9 and ultimately scales up to +6.5. Since hit is more valuable than damage (especially on a Rogue), this is similar in value to magical weapons - without requiring attunement. So while they don't scale like a Monk's attacks, the combination of Sneak Attack and Homing Knives mean they effectively do.
If I were changing Soulknife, I'd actually do two things:
Allow the knives to deal normal physical damage as an option. Nothing is immune to slashing/piercing/crushing, although some enemies are resistant. On the other hand, while Psychic goes through most defenses, there are enemies completely immune to it.
Allow the bonus action attack to be used regardless of how you used your normal action. This would allow Soulknives to pull 'double Sneak Attack' tricks natively. Other sub-classes have abilities which permit this, so it's not unbalanced to allow Soulknives to do so (although they'd be able to do it much more easily in some cases).
I do think Soulknives do suffer from general rules clunkiness. Sharpshooter only partially affects Thrown weapons, artificially limiting their effective range. The "other hand" restriction on the knives places a restriction on them that doesn't exist for any other form of dual wield. Abilities like Defensive Duelist don't apply to Soulknives due to their ephemeral nature. It's questionable whether the various Blade cantrips or True Strike can be applied to Soulknives due to the 1+ cp value restriction.
The route I've been leaning that stays within RAW is leaning into fighting styles from other classes. For example dueling gives a +2 to damage when you make an attack while wielding only one weapon as because you only manifest the blade at the time of the attack, and it vanishes upon impact or miss, it qualifies. Thrown weapon fighting style also grants a +2 to damage rolls.
A questionable addendum is Archery which grants a +2 to attack rolls with ranged weapons. So when you use them as thrown weapons they debatably qualify. The ability doesn't express them as "ranged weapons" but they have a "range" for the purposes of throwing them
I've heard a number of options for Homebrew or house rules that say things like "during a short or long rest you may spend an hour meditating on a weapon. When you do, your Psychic Blades take on the properties of your meditated weapon" or the weapon damage type becomes psychic and you may use your soulknife abilities with the weapon
Archery gives +2 hit with Ranged weapons. The capitol R indicates the category Ranged (as opposed to Melee) rather than merely being at range.
It's similar to the issue with Sharpshooter. Sharpshooter lets you ignore 1/2 and 3/4 cover with ranged attacks (little r). It removes Disadvantage at long range and melee with Ranged (big r) weapons.
In terms of Thrown and Dueling styles, these should apply. However, to take either of them, you'd need to sacrifice 1/2d6 of Sneak Attack so you're actually only getting about +0.25 net damage. When you consider the delay in your other abilities (especially Homing Knives), it's not really worth it for Fighting Style alone. Note that Dueling is the better of the two styles since it affects both your ranged and melee attacks while Thrown only affects thrown Soulknives. While I'd multi-class eventually, I probably wouldn't do it until level 9 at least.
I didn't make this post with the intent to discuss how Fighting Styles and Feats interact with Psychic Blades. I asked if people homebrewed or house ruled ways to allow soulknife rogues to use magic weapons without losing half their class abilities
And im sure rules-lawyering an "R" vs an "r" makes you really fun at tables. People play this game to have fun. The best advice I ever heard on this game is to remember that WotC isn't ever going to thank you for keeping to the rules as written.
When you consider the soulknife doesn't get +1/2/3 on their psychic blades I hardly believe that Archery impacts game balance that heavily to allow them to take archery.
You know what really kills the fun? When a player comes up with a neat character idea and then discovers midway through the campaign that they're sitting on the sidelines because their DM doesn't understand the rules.
Games have rules so they can be fun. There's nothing wrong with changing the rules, as long as you're upfront about what you're doing. I think it's silly that Sharpshooter doesn't apply fully to thrown weapons and I'd be fine if a DM said "in my campaign, it does". But before you start changing the rules, you should make an effort to understand what they are.
I didn't make this post with the intent to discuss how Fighting Styles and Feats interact with Psychic Blades. I asked if people homebrewed or house ruled ways to allow soulknife rogues to use magic weapons without losing half their class abilities
In our game, the DM gave the Soulknife the ability to channel a magic weapon (only shortsword, scimitar, or dagger) into their Psychic Blades so long as they had the weapons on their person and were attuned to the weapon (if required). This way they could either draw the physical weapon or manifest them as Psychic Blades.
We also agreed that it made sense to allow the Soulknife to use their Psychic Blades for any and all attacks, including attacks made outside of their own turn (like with Commanding Strike).
before you start changing the rules, you should make an effort to understand what they are.
which is why im asking specifically in the context of Homebrew and House Rules, because i know technically speaking, these things dont work perfectly with other elements of the game. the game doesnt say players can modify their psychic blades with magic items. it doesnt say Archery or sharpshooter works. you have to nit pick the fine wording for dueling fighting style to work since the blades go away after impact and spawn when you make the attack, despite you technically behaving as a two weapon build.
a lot of this game, even with expansive rules, still manages to come down to interpretation, perceived intent, and what seems fair. as Sequilonis said in regards to Psychic Blades and Commanding Strike, Psychic Blades does have a write in under 2024 rules that you can manifest a psychic blade as part of an opportunity attack, but Commanding Strike isnt an opportunity attack despite it consuming the Rogue's reaction the same way an OA would. i personally believe the intent is there that they meant you should be able to use your Psychic Blades for this purpose, RAW you cant. so im trying to find the ways people bend this subclass to make it more fun and more playable for their tables. that is the reason im harping on you over an R vs an r and because its not relevant to what im talking about in this thread
I don't find the need to bend the rules for Soulknife. My character isn't limited in her ability to pick up a magic weapon and use it. In fact, she keeps a pair of daggers and a shortsword for this purpose. Psychic resistance, immunity, and the Antimagic Shell spell exist. (Also, she likes to do fun stuff with ropes, and psychic blades can't cut rope.)
It's true. She's not as good at straight out terrorizing people in combat as an Assassin is. But I'm willing to give up some top end combat capability for the fact that she can't easily be disarmed of some of her weapons. Came in handy when no weapons were allowed in the throne room, but then a fight broke out there anyway.
I think Soulknife is a lot of fun as it is. Not as amazing in combat as the Assassin. Not as good at sneaking around and doing utility work as the Thief. But a really nice balance between the two with some unique tricks of it's own.
If DMing, I would probably rule that the psychic blade can be used on Commander's Strike. I can't see any reason why it wouldn't work thematically. So I'd allow that one as RAI. Dueling would work. At the time you deal the damage, you are holding a weapon that qualifies. Sharpshooter would only work as far as the ignoring cover portion, same as for any other thrown weapon. Archery does not work for thrown weapons.
Soulknife is hands down my favorite subclass of rogue, likely to the point that I'm not really interested in other rogue subclasses at all. However the only thing I don't care for is the lack of weapon progression. Where basically everyone else in the game has options to get a better weapon with cool magic properties as their tables progress the soulknife remains stagnant with their only damage gains coming from Sneak Attack.
I suppose what I'd really like to ask is, how many people homebrew the handling of Psychic Blades vs requiring your players to face the realities of their subclass selection that you ultimately have no benefits from magical weapons throughout the campaign.
My DM just gave my soulknife a +2 Dagger. And I have ideas for how to do some interesting Homebrew but another friend at the table sees Homebrew of things like this as a violation of RAW and shouldn't be allowed
Homing Knives is effective +4.5 to hit with Psychic Blades at level 9 and ultimately scales up to +6.5. Since hit is more valuable than damage (especially on a Rogue), this is similar in value to magical weapons - without requiring attunement. So while they don't scale like a Monk's attacks, the combination of Sneak Attack and Homing Knives mean they effectively do.
If I were changing Soulknife, I'd actually do two things:
I do think Soulknives do suffer from general rules clunkiness. Sharpshooter only partially affects Thrown weapons, artificially limiting their effective range. The "other hand" restriction on the knives places a restriction on them that doesn't exist for any other form of dual wield. Abilities like Defensive Duelist don't apply to Soulknives due to their ephemeral nature. It's questionable whether the various Blade cantrips or True Strike can be applied to Soulknives due to the 1+ cp value restriction.
The route I've been leaning that stays within RAW is leaning into fighting styles from other classes. For example dueling gives a +2 to damage when you make an attack while wielding only one weapon as because you only manifest the blade at the time of the attack, and it vanishes upon impact or miss, it qualifies. Thrown weapon fighting style also grants a +2 to damage rolls.
A questionable addendum is Archery which grants a +2 to attack rolls with ranged weapons. So when you use them as thrown weapons they debatably qualify. The ability doesn't express them as "ranged weapons" but they have a "range" for the purposes of throwing them
I've heard a number of options for Homebrew or house rules that say things like "during a short or long rest you may spend an hour meditating on a weapon. When you do, your Psychic Blades take on the properties of your meditated weapon" or the weapon damage type becomes psychic and you may use your soulknife abilities with the weapon
Archery gives +2 hit with Ranged weapons. The capitol R indicates the category Ranged (as opposed to Melee) rather than merely being at range.
It's similar to the issue with Sharpshooter. Sharpshooter lets you ignore 1/2 and 3/4 cover with ranged attacks (little r). It removes Disadvantage at long range and melee with Ranged (big r) weapons.
In terms of Thrown and Dueling styles, these should apply. However, to take either of them, you'd need to sacrifice 1/2d6 of Sneak Attack so you're actually only getting about +0.25 net damage. When you consider the delay in your other abilities (especially Homing Knives), it's not really worth it for Fighting Style alone. Note that Dueling is the better of the two styles since it affects both your ranged and melee attacks while Thrown only affects thrown Soulknives. While I'd multi-class eventually, I probably wouldn't do it until level 9 at least.
I didn't make this post with the intent to discuss how Fighting Styles and Feats interact with Psychic Blades. I asked if people homebrewed or house ruled ways to allow soulknife rogues to use magic weapons without losing half their class abilities
And im sure rules-lawyering an "R" vs an "r" makes you really fun at tables. People play this game to have fun. The best advice I ever heard on this game is to remember that WotC isn't ever going to thank you for keeping to the rules as written.
When you consider the soulknife doesn't get +1/2/3 on their psychic blades I hardly believe that Archery impacts game balance that heavily to allow them to take archery.
You know what really kills the fun? When a player comes up with a neat character idea and then discovers midway through the campaign that they're sitting on the sidelines because their DM doesn't understand the rules.
Games have rules so they can be fun. There's nothing wrong with changing the rules, as long as you're upfront about what you're doing. I think it's silly that Sharpshooter doesn't apply fully to thrown weapons and I'd be fine if a DM said "in my campaign, it does". But before you start changing the rules, you should make an effort to understand what they are.
In our game, the DM gave the Soulknife the ability to channel a magic weapon (only shortsword, scimitar, or dagger) into their Psychic Blades so long as they had the weapons on their person and were attuned to the weapon (if required). This way they could either draw the physical weapon or manifest them as Psychic Blades.
We also agreed that it made sense to allow the Soulknife to use their Psychic Blades for any and all attacks, including attacks made outside of their own turn (like with Commanding Strike).
which is why im asking specifically in the context of Homebrew and House Rules, because i know technically speaking, these things dont work perfectly with other elements of the game. the game doesnt say players can modify their psychic blades with magic items. it doesnt say Archery or sharpshooter works. you have to nit pick the fine wording for dueling fighting style to work since the blades go away after impact and spawn when you make the attack, despite you technically behaving as a two weapon build.
a lot of this game, even with expansive rules, still manages to come down to interpretation, perceived intent, and what seems fair. as Sequilonis said in regards to Psychic Blades and Commanding Strike, Psychic Blades does have a write in under 2024 rules that you can manifest a psychic blade as part of an opportunity attack, but Commanding Strike isnt an opportunity attack despite it consuming the Rogue's reaction the same way an OA would. i personally believe the intent is there that they meant you should be able to use your Psychic Blades for this purpose, RAW you cant. so im trying to find the ways people bend this subclass to make it more fun and more playable for their tables. that is the reason im harping on you over an R vs an r and because its not relevant to what im talking about in this thread
I don't find the need to bend the rules for Soulknife. My character isn't limited in her ability to pick up a magic weapon and use it. In fact, she keeps a pair of daggers and a shortsword for this purpose. Psychic resistance, immunity, and the Antimagic Shell spell exist. (Also, she likes to do fun stuff with ropes, and psychic blades can't cut rope.)
It's true. She's not as good at straight out terrorizing people in combat as an Assassin is. But I'm willing to give up some top end combat capability for the fact that she can't easily be disarmed of some of her weapons. Came in handy when no weapons were allowed in the throne room, but then a fight broke out there anyway.
I think Soulknife is a lot of fun as it is. Not as amazing in combat as the Assassin. Not as good at sneaking around and doing utility work as the Thief. But a really nice balance between the two with some unique tricks of it's own.
If DMing, I would probably rule that the psychic blade can be used on Commander's Strike. I can't see any reason why it wouldn't work thematically. So I'd allow that one as RAI. Dueling would work. At the time you deal the damage, you are holding a weapon that qualifies. Sharpshooter would only work as far as the ignoring cover portion, same as for any other thrown weapon. Archery does not work for thrown weapons.
EDIT: Commanding Strike -> Commander's Strike