Hey, everyone! I've been taking an interest in D&D again - for reference, I've never played before - and recently started to mess with the character builder here. A week or so ago I got some advice and tried making a starter Ranger (based on a usual playstyle in a lot of more videogamey RPG games), and after experimenting, I wanted to ask about a particular rogue build I was trying to puzzle out.
Put simply, a long time ago when I was playing Oblivion, I once ran a Khajiit custom-thiefy-class who was basically your standard thief, sneaking around, lockpicking chests, sweet-talking and mercantile...-ing, everyone... except when things came down to brass tacks, he'd unsheathe his claws instead of pulling out a dagger. No magic, no fancy tricks, just a lovable scamp who knew how to dodge a punch and win a scrap. While I do love my double-dagger thieves (prolly just as much as Rangers, heheheh), that particular character is one of my fondest memories of building an RPG character.
Of course, I'm sure you've guessed the question by now: is this sort of character more of a Rogue or a Monk to start with? For all intents and purposes I'm picturing him as a thief, good at being stealthy, picking doors and chests open, disarming traps, climbing, running, etc etc, so Rogue seems like the obvious choice, but of course, Rogues don't get Martial Arts. On the flipside, while Monk (particularly Shadow Monk) would be a perfect fit... except the whole mystical Ki, monastic flavor isn't really what I'm going for either; he's just a scoundrel, not Ryu From Streets. Of course, I guess there's multiclassing, but given I've never actually played before I think that might be a bit much.
(I also know that punching can't be combined with Sneak Attack; I have at least done a little homework ;u )
Does anyone have any suggestions? I've tried making both a Rogue version and a Monk version of the same character in the builder, so if anyone's curious about my spreads and whatnot I can probably copypaste 'em in here.
Like you said the main problem is that you unarmed attacks do not count for sneak attack. There are a few options I can think of that might help you with. Ki doesnt have to be ki, you can literally flavor it to what ever you like such as stamina or anything like that, as long as the mechanic is the same your good. In the same view you could do something like reflavoring a dagger to be something like a push dagger or brass knuckles so you still can get that unique punching feel/look.
Another thing you could try is going with the feats to off set the multiclass rules and shenanigans. If your DM allows you to, you could play a tabaxi monk and at lvl 4 pick up Prodigy which could give you expertise in stealth, and proficiency in thieve's tools, just have to have a flexible dm who would allow you to take a normally human/half human racial feat.
Choosing the Rogue route gives you several benefits:
* bonus action to disengage, hide, or dash
* sneak attack
* expertise in skills.
The 3rd one is especially useful if you choose to expertise in Athletics and have a decent Strength score. This will allow you to Grapple opponents successfully a lot of the time. Then you can shove them to the ground, which reduces their movement to zero. This would mean they have no means of escaping from you. :) Also a prone opponent means you get Advantage, which meas you just created your own sneak attack opportunity. Also, because of Rogue expertise, you can choose Stealth as your second skill for that benefit, so you would be significantly sneakier than a Monk that just took the Stealth skill.
The neat thing about D&D is you can make up your own rules. Ask your DM if you can use your unarmed attacks for sneak attack (and perhaps if you can use it with "two-weapon fighting as well so that you can use your bonus action for a second swing). From a balance perspective that isn't really asking for much, as it is for most purposes equivalent to holding two daggers.
Class is not concept, concept is not class. Just because it says 'monk' on your character sheet doesn't mean you have to be an introspective koan-spouting navel-gazer or anything of the sort. Just take a Monk, take the Criminal background, and you should be good to go.
Another option, depending on the flexibility of your overall character concept, is to utilize one of the races that has an augmented unarmed attack (much like the khajiit, in TES). Off the top of my head (and about ninety seconds' research), those are:
Any of those amp up your fisticuffs damage without needing to burn a multiclass or take Tavern Brawler. Notably, each is STR-based, meaning a beefy thug-type rogue rather than a nimble thief-type rogue if you want to try and maximize damage. The only way to get DX-based unarmed attacks is to multiclass Monk, and/or get your DM to let you do something screwy. Tabaxi are obviously very Khajiit-y, but may be just a little too on the nose. Literally everything else on the list would be absolutely hilarious as a roof-walking thief, though. Heh, can you just imagine a centaur second-story man? :P
Hey, everyone! I've been taking an interest in D&D again - for reference, I've never played before - and recently started to mess with the character builder here. A week or so ago I got some advice and tried making a starter Ranger (based on a usual playstyle in a lot of more videogamey RPG games), and after experimenting, I wanted to ask about a particular rogue build I was trying to puzzle out.
Put simply, a long time ago when I was playing Oblivion, I once ran a Khajiit custom-thiefy-class who was basically your standard thief, sneaking around, lockpicking chests, sweet-talking and mercantile...-ing, everyone... except when things came down to brass tacks, he'd unsheathe his claws instead of pulling out a dagger. No magic, no fancy tricks, just a lovable scamp who knew how to dodge a punch and win a scrap. While I do love my double-dagger thieves (prolly just as much as Rangers, heheheh), that particular character is one of my fondest memories of building an RPG character.
Of course, I'm sure you've guessed the question by now: is this sort of character more of a Rogue or a Monk to start with? For all intents and purposes I'm picturing him as a thief, good at being stealthy, picking doors and chests open, disarming traps, climbing, running, etc etc, so Rogue seems like the obvious choice, but of course, Rogues don't get Martial Arts. On the flipside, while Monk (particularly Shadow Monk) would be a perfect fit... except the whole mystical Ki, monastic flavor isn't really what I'm going for either; he's just a scoundrel, not Ryu From Streets. Of course, I guess there's multiclassing, but given I've never actually played before I think that might be a bit much.
(I also know that punching can't be combined with Sneak Attack; I have at least done a little homework ;u )
Does anyone have any suggestions? I've tried making both a Rogue version and a Monk version of the same character in the builder, so if anyone's curious about my spreads and whatnot I can probably copypaste 'em in here.
Like you said the main problem is that you unarmed attacks do not count for sneak attack. There are a few options I can think of that might help you with.
Ki doesnt have to be ki, you can literally flavor it to what ever you like such as stamina or anything like that, as long as the mechanic is the same your good. In the same view you could do something like reflavoring a dagger to be something like a push dagger or brass knuckles so you still can get that unique punching feel/look.
Another thing you could try is going with the feats to off set the multiclass rules and shenanigans. If your DM allows you to, you could play a tabaxi monk and at lvl 4 pick up Prodigy which could give you expertise in stealth, and proficiency in thieve's tools, just have to have a flexible dm who would allow you to take a normally human/half human racial feat.
Choosing the Rogue route gives you several benefits:
* bonus action to disengage, hide, or dash
* sneak attack
* expertise in skills.
The 3rd one is especially useful if you choose to expertise in Athletics and have a decent Strength score. This will allow you to Grapple opponents successfully a lot of the time. Then you can shove them to the ground, which reduces their movement to zero. This would mean they have no means of escaping from you. :) Also a prone opponent means you get Advantage, which meas you just created your own sneak attack opportunity. Also, because of Rogue expertise, you can choose Stealth as your second skill for that benefit, so you would be significantly sneakier than a Monk that just took the Stealth skill.
The neat thing about D&D is you can make up your own rules. Ask your DM if you can use your unarmed attacks for sneak attack (and perhaps if you can use it with "two-weapon fighting as well so that you can use your bonus action for a second swing). From a balance perspective that isn't really asking for much, as it is for most purposes equivalent to holding two daggers.
Class is not concept, concept is not class. Just because it says 'monk' on your character sheet doesn't mean you have to be an introspective koan-spouting navel-gazer or anything of the sort. Just take a Monk, take the Criminal background, and you should be good to go.
Another option, depending on the flexibility of your overall character concept, is to utilize one of the races that has an augmented unarmed attack (much like the khajiit, in TES). Off the top of my head (and about ninety seconds' research), those are:
-Tortle (Tortle Claws, 1d4+STR slashing)
-Lizardfolk (Lizard Bite, 1d6+STR piercing)
-Tabaxi (Cat's Claws, 1d4+STR Slashing)
-Minotaur (Goring Horns, 1d6+STR piercing)
-Centaur (Hooves, 1d4 Bludgeoning +STR)
-Juggernaut Warforged (Iron Fist, 1d4 Puncheoning +STR)
Any of those amp up your fisticuffs damage without needing to burn a multiclass or take Tavern Brawler. Notably, each is STR-based, meaning a beefy thug-type rogue rather than a nimble thief-type rogue if you want to try and maximize damage. The only way to get DX-based unarmed attacks is to multiclass Monk, and/or get your DM to let you do something screwy. Tabaxi are obviously very Khajiit-y, but may be just a little too on the nose. Literally everything else on the list would be absolutely hilarious as a roof-walking thief, though. Heh, can you just imagine a centaur second-story man? :P
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