Random thought. What if Twinned got turned from a meta-magic into an innate ability? Likely with it's own, separate, resource? That would give sorcs a very unique, distinct, difference from wizards, alleviate pressure on their sorc point pool and meta-magic selection, and potentially allow more direct manipulation of it? Like, say, a shadow sorc could twin-cast a spell, but one of those twin-casts could be Darkness. Or a Wild Magic could twincast any spell they knew even if it wasn't the same spell so long as they were from the same school. Just a random thought.
Twinned is pretty powerful, I really don't see most DMs letting it be innate for all Sorcerers. It's equivalent to getting an extra spell slot for the cost of just the slot level in points, but even better since it's with the same action and possibly even the same concentration.
I mean, my DM ended up not allowing my Sorcerer to use the Spell Point system, because yeah it really is too much to be able to cast 5 3rd-level spells in one combat at level 5. I might see if she'd agree to letting me regain Sorcery Points up to my Proficiency Bonus 1/day after a Short Rest, due to Wizards & some Druids having a 1/day spell-slot recovery feature, and the fact that Sorcerers' spell-slot recovery, while doable in combat, eats away at the fuel for their main class feature Metamagic. (That may short-circuit the capstone feature of regaining 4 points after a short rest, but the capstone would at least work after *every* short rest - not that I'll be reaching that level with this character anyway.)
The important thing is that she *is* allowing me to have Origin Spells for my Wild-Magic Sorcerer, and letting me follow my idea to have them be spells that have been cast as part of a Wild-Magic Surge. (As well as letting me use Tides of Chaos and Surge as much as I like, and now even allowing 1 surge per day to be a random *unseen* effect so that it's not *always* repeats - as long as I'm the one handling it so she doesn't have to!) The spells that can be cast in a Surge are a nice set, very useful in combat with only 1 or 2 "ehns", so it's letting me make more character-based choices for the spells gained at level-up. And between that and the basic Metamagic/Font of Magic, I'm really not feeling too limited with my character's power, though I admit it helps that she's deliberately not optimized. Last session I got to bust out a clutch Third Fireball after 9 Orcs suddenly rushed in mid-combat! Which helped make up for having poisoned our Paladin with the Surge after Fireball #2...
Twinned is pretty powerful, I really don't see most DMs letting it be innate for all Sorcerers. It's equivalent to getting an extra spell slot for the cost of just the slot level in points, but even better since it's with the same action and possibly even the same concentration.
Meta magics can be really powerful but some of them have been made close to innate with limitations on the spells used and which ones. For example aberrant mind sorcerer gets subtle spell and a cost discount on it's psionic spells.
I could definitely see future classes getting meta magic they apply for free to certain spells and if you wanted to back apply this kind of mechanic I have suggestions
Wild magic could apply a random meta magic when casting from it's spell points
Draconic sorcerer could get transmuted spell to it's element
Shadow sorcerer could get the ability to see through any spell with magical darkness and maybe a subtle spell on those
Well, my point is, if Twinned is so powerful it's BASICALLY required, why not just make it innate so other metas can be chosen? I can't think of another that's SO important that you basically have to pick it or else you're shooting yourself in the foot. And it would allow for more direct tinkering and manipulation as a class feature to boot.
Well, my point is, if Twinned is so powerful it's BASICALLY required, why not just make it innate so other metas can be chosen? I can't think of another that's SO important that you basically have to pick it or else you're shooting yourself in the foot. And it would allow for more direct tinkering and manipulation as a class feature to boot.
I would disagree with the premise and I don't see the difference. Quickened is the best metamagic in my opinion.
That aside your argument is Twinned is so powerful that there is not really a choice here, you have to take twinned. That is not really an argument for eliminating other choices. Choices are not bad even if they are substandard. Further when you consider multiclassing the choices become less straightforward. I can see a Rogue with a sorcerer dip wanting subtle spell instead of twinned spell because of the interplay with Rogue abilities, if you make it a standard class feature you don't have that option.
I think the current mechanic works well and in particular the ability to trade sorcery points and spell slots back and forth can be powerful and useful (even without Warlock abuse). A multiclass full caster can have slots well above what they have spells for, take a Druid/Sorcerer 4/5 for example. This character will have 4th and 5th level slots he can't use. The ability to convert these slots to SPs and then on to 1st and 2nd level slots is huge for casting spells like shield or goodberry.
Well, my point is, if Twinned is so powerful it's BASICALLY required, why not just make it innate so other metas can be chosen? I can't think of another that's SO important that you basically have to pick it or else you're shooting yourself in the foot. And it would allow for more direct tinkering and manipulation as a class feature to boot.
It has a scaling cost based on spell level so you want a twinned polymorph any that would normally cost 9 points to be free? a Reduction in cost across the board like -1 at level 10 which would make some metas free I'd get, but twinned free is a bit much.
A "signature metamagic" ability could be interesting; I think a straight reduction in the cost of the chosen metamagic by 1 sorcery point wouldn't be too strong. Initially I thought it would mean Twinned Spell becomes a better version of a Death Cleric's Reaper ability (which only works with necromancy spells), however Reaper applies to higher level spells for free (after it levels up) whereas Twinned Spell would still cost, it just wouldn't cost as much (1 for a 2nd-level, 2 for a 3rd etc.).
Free Distant, Extended, Subtle etc. are situational enough that they shouldn't really be exploitable, it's just a cool ability to have. Empowered is a bit more borderline since it can be stacked, so you'd rarely have a reason not to use it, so it's free re-rolls of CHA damage dice on every spell, probably not any stronger than free Twinned cantrips or 1st level spells though so it's probably fine.
And really the big benefit is extending sorcery points; even if you pick Heightened Spell (normal three points) that's still 50% more uses for a control built that thrives on pushing enemies to fail their saves. Quickened Spell can be used twice as much if chosen for a build focused on multicasting etc.
It's a strong ability, but I think it would suit the Sorcerer at the right level (around 10th is probably about right)?
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Well, my point is, if Twinned is so powerful it's BASICALLY required, why not just make it innate so other metas can be chosen? I can't think of another that's SO important that you basically have to pick it or else you're shooting yourself in the foot. And it would allow for more direct tinkering and manipulation as a class feature to boot.
I would disagree with the premise and I don't see the difference. Quickened is the best metamagic in my opinion.
That aside your argument is Twinned is so powerful that there is not really a choice here, you have to take twinned. That is not really an argument for eliminating other choices. Choices are not bad even if they are substandard. Further when you consider multiclassing the choices become less straightforward. I can see a Rogue with a sorcerer dip wanting subtle spell instead of twinned spell because of the interplay with Rogue abilities, if you make it a standard class feature you don't have that option.
I think the current mechanic works well and in particular the ability to trade sorcery points and spell slots back and forth can be powerful and useful (even without Warlock abuse). A multiclass full caster can have slots well above what they have spells for, take a Druid/Sorcerer 4/5 for example. This character will have 4th and 5th level slots he can't use. The ability to convert these slots to SPs and then on to 1st and 2nd level slots is huge for casting spells like shield or goodberry.
Certainly won't deny that quickened is useful; but being able to twin a polymorph, twin a firebolt, twin a haste, or twin... pretty much anything... is just so much in regards to utility that I can't see any other choice coming close. Quickened has the problem that you can only do a normal spell and a cantrip. It's extremely useful, don't get me wrong, but not in the same league as the stuff you can pull off with twinned. I'd say it's number 2.
However, what I'm getting at here is a question of mechanics. Meta-magic just doesn't have the bang-for-buck needed to counter all the sorcs drawbacks compared to other casters. It's made worse because something like Heightened is simply not in the same league as Twinned or Quickened. So why not free up one of the very valuable meta-magic slots and allow for potentially more direct manipulation of the ability? Seems like a 'kill two birds with one stone' deal here.
Dude, I love Twinned, and that's the one I'm using the most, but you cannot Twin "pretty much anything." You can Quicken any spell that takes an Action, which comes a lot closer to "pretty much anything" than the limited list that qualifies for Twinned, especially since dev notes seem to be aiming to pare that list back even further.
And I know I'd rather have Twinned be available in the set of Metamagics to choose from right away at level 3, than have it be a class feature like Magical Guidance that likely wouldn't be available until a higher level. And even the class features or subclass features use sorcery points the same as the Metamagics.
Being able to take more metamagics at more intermediate levels would definitely help matters, but at least the Metamagic Adept feat helps bridge that gap a little meanwhile. And a little sorcery point restoration other than spell-slot conversion would be nice too, but at least the Bloodwell Vial allows a DM to give a player that option.
Still, it would help to have *some* nifty level 10 class or subclass feature, to fill in the level7-13 desert of "getting cool thing you couldn't have optionally done before"...
I like Twinned Spell but I wouldn't say it's mandatory; in my experience I tend to only use it with cantrips and the occasional low level spells, using it with anything higher level is often very situational, great when it comes up of course, but not something I do often enough to say it's a mandatory pick.
I use Quickened a lot more consistently, though sometimes that's paired with Twinned (since you can quicken an action spell, and then twin a cantrip to keep your damage up). But it's the quickening that's the key for me, letting me top up false life mid battle, or to activate a defensive spell like intellect fortress when I need it without losing a turn, rather than trying to guess in advance. In fact, I'd say Quickened Spell is more mandatory on a Divine Soul, as being able to bonus action bless is fantastic.
There are also plenty of times where I'm more glad to have had other metamagics; I like having Seeking spell in the back pocket (as a miss on a high level spell is horrible, especially when you consider the sorcery points you'd have to spend to get it back, if you even could), Heightened Spell is great for a control spell on a problematic elite enemy, Empowered Spell on a blast to crush a horde of enemies and so-on.
This is why I don't think Twinned Spell should be a mandatory choice; you can build a solid sorcerer without it, but I'd rather gain bonus/cheaper uses of a metamagic of my choice as sorcerers are versatile enough that different metamagics will suit different builds (and not necessarily specific ones for specific sub-classes either). That and more picks; Metamagic Adept has become a pretty much required feat on sorcerers as bringing us up to six metamagics for mid-levels is just so good, and two extra sorcery points never goes amiss.
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I haven't yet had a chance to play one (looking forward to it eventually!) but I'm not sure the class as a whole needs major revamping. I'd suggest the base class just needs a few more Sorcery Points and/or a buff to Sorcerous Restoration.
However, the subclasses need buffing - all the older ones need a few spells known as with the newest subclasses.
In addition:
Draconic needs to be able to turn into dragons. Maybe they could get some particularly draconic spells, with some trade-offs. E.g. Dragon's Breath, self-only and only your ancestral element, but non-concentration. True Polymorph, only self into a dragon (or half-dragon etc.) of your ancestry, but doesn't count against spells known and you can shift out of dragon form at any time.
Haravikk's homebrew also looks like an interesting fix that covers some of that ground.
Wild needs something.
Shadow is probably mostly okay. I'd make their Darkvision better, so it works the same as Devil's Sight (maybe it starts out as-is but upgrades at level 3 or level 6).
Storm needs something in addition to more spells. It's a really cool concept but needs a solid buff. More flight? More damage? It also needs a ranged lightning cantrip - which we can't call Lightning Bolt even if it's almost identical to Fire Bolt, because Lightning Bolt already exists. And it needs spells, including some it doesn't even have access to by RAW, like Call Lightning.
I think they also need better meta magic. Its sad that the evocation wizard has a better increase damage option than sorcerers, can exclude friendlies better, the enchanter twins for free where its a crippling cost for a sorcerer. Maybe not all of this but bring back maximize improve empower and careful spell, give heightened spell a effect everyone in the area option etc.
Well, my point is, if Twinned is so powerful it's BASICALLY required, why not just make it innate so other metas can be chosen? I can't think of another that's SO important that you basically have to pick it or else you're shooting yourself in the foot. And it would allow for more direct tinkering and manipulation as a class feature to boot.
I think it's more like EB and agonizing blast on warlocks. Like its so good your gonna be hard pressed to find a warlock not running it but I don't think warlocks should just get EB+AB baseline and more options
I think what it does is really highlight that sorcerers should be getting MORE metamagic far earlier than lvl 10. like we should get our 2 at 3 than another 1 or 2 at 6 than more at 10. It's still all limited by how many spell points you have, not like any of them have a X per short rest limit so having more options to choose from isn't some massive power boost but still a welcome one
It's clear to see Sorcerers got utter crap for playtest time in 5e and it's just pathetic it's taking WotC 10 years to look at it.. This really is something that should of been fixed back in 2018, 2020 at the latest... how did it take 6 years for new metamagic to hit the game for instance?
Well, my point is, if Twinned is so powerful it's BASICALLY required, why not just make it innate so other metas can be chosen? I can't think of another that's SO important that you basically have to pick it or else you're shooting yourself in the foot. And it would allow for more direct tinkering and manipulation as a class feature to boot.
I think it's more like EB and agonizing blast on warlocks. Like its so good your gonna be hard pressed to find a warlock not running it but I don't think warlocks should just get EB+AB baseline and more options
I personally think warlock should be organised as the 3 pacts being attack styles. With eldritch blast being the domain of the tome and all 3 balanced to each other.
Pact of the blade getting the charisma to attack by default, scaling attacks whether its being able to also cast a cantrip or eventually getting multi attack.
Pact of the chain getting scaling familiar stats like how most modern pet classes do
it would just generally make the class more cohesive and variable.
That kind of choice is different to meta magic though. The thing with meta magic is that they're all kind of situational they're not really a style of attack like the pacts boons are. A session could easily go by without it it coming into play at all and the impact is often so rare, fleeting and minor that you may not even notice when you do.
To fix this I see 3 options.
Keep the spell like management with known and spell cost but make them more powerful so they very noticeably change a spell. They should be on par with a long rest limited use per day class ability. Since that is what they are
Treat metamagic as a whole as one class ability, have them all known and let the player pick from them when needed
Treat meta magic as a casting style, make them active constantly or allot cheaper and balance them accordingly.
The current system of giving them the economy of spells which effects that don't remotely approach them I don't think works.
Well, my point is, if Twinned is so powerful it's BASICALLY required, why not just make it innate so other metas can be chosen? I can't think of another that's SO important that you basically have to pick it or else you're shooting yourself in the foot. And it would allow for more direct tinkering and manipulation as a class feature to boot.
I think it's more like EB and agonizing blast on warlocks. Like its so good your gonna be hard pressed to find a warlock not running it but I don't think warlocks should just get EB+AB baseline and more options
I personally think warlock should be organised as the 3 pacts being attack styles. With eldritch blast being the domain of the tome and all 3 balanced to each other.
Pact of the blade getting the charisma to attack by default, scaling attacks whether its being able to also cast a cantrip or eventually getting multi attack.
Pact of the chain getting scaling familiar stats like how most modern pet classes do
it would just generally make the class more cohesive and variable.
I like my EB on my blade and chain pact Warlocks, thank you very much. Such a change would be unnecessarily restrictive for something that's been a signature attack for Warlocks of any kind. It wouldn't even make sense in case of the familiar since all the pet classes have their companion attack with their bonus action so they can still attack with their own weapon (EB is the Warlock's weapon).
Without eldritch blast the other brands of warlocks would just use different cantrips and I really don't think you would miss it. The chain would use a different cantrip and then the pet would attack. The blade would use a different cantrip for range or a bow. As it currently stands eldritch blast takes the place of all of that, it takes all the cantrips, it functionally replaces the bow by performing a similar function more powerfully with less invocations and the familiar rarely plays a role in combat.
To me the current warlock design feels like a class made entirely around one weapon a magical heavy crossbow ( eldritch blast has identical stats to it). There's one sub class which lets you be effective with a different weapon, hex blade and that's it.
I also don't think eldritch blast works as a core class features. The customisations to it aren't really that great it's got some obligatory invocation picks and 1 interesting build around pushing and pulling.
It's in a bit of a limbo between a class feature and a cantrip at the moment. Its need to choose a side either sinking into the back ground with the rest of the cantrips or be elevated to full class feature and being integrated with other class mechanics. Now that can be done by buffing the other cantrips if you want it doesn't really matter if you sink eldritch blast to a cantrip or raise the entire world around it the effect is the same but its current limbo is detrimental to the class.
There's nothing wrong with eldritch blast; the problem is that so many invocations only apply to it, so there's no freedom to choose something else for a blaster build (or backup ranged option). I'd like to see the eldritch blast invocations opened up to work on more cantrips, and for maybe a few more "multi-shot" cantrips to be added that would scale the same with Agonizing Blast, and also just because it's the only one (I think, could be wrong, but certainly most others are single attack, scaled damage).
Not sure what this has to do with a Sorcerer revamp though; I don't mind that Warlocks can put out solid damage with just eldritch blast, because they have so few spell slots, can't twin spells etc. There's no need for Sorcerers to feel inadequate, Warlock in many ways is a kind of "martial caster" in the sense that it functions a lot like a Fighter with a lot of short rest bound resources, meaning they have staying power as opposed to the huge bursts of spellcasting other casters can do (and Sorcerers especially, thanks to Metamagics). The problem for Sorcerers for me is still the limited number of Metamagic choices; gimme more as standard, rebalance some of the weaker sub-classes (probably just add a spell list in most cases) and I'd be happy.
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Random thought. What if Twinned got turned from a meta-magic into an innate ability? Likely with it's own, separate, resource? That would give sorcs a very unique, distinct, difference from wizards, alleviate pressure on their sorc point pool and meta-magic selection, and potentially allow more direct manipulation of it? Like, say, a shadow sorc could twin-cast a spell, but one of those twin-casts could be Darkness. Or a Wild Magic could twincast any spell they knew even if it wasn't the same spell so long as they were from the same school. Just a random thought.
Twinned is pretty powerful, I really don't see most DMs letting it be innate for all Sorcerers. It's equivalent to getting an extra spell slot for the cost of just the slot level in points, but even better since it's with the same action and possibly even the same concentration.
I mean, my DM ended up not allowing my Sorcerer to use the Spell Point system, because yeah it really is too much to be able to cast 5 3rd-level spells in one combat at level 5. I might see if she'd agree to letting me regain Sorcery Points up to my Proficiency Bonus 1/day after a Short Rest, due to Wizards & some Druids having a 1/day spell-slot recovery feature, and the fact that Sorcerers' spell-slot recovery, while doable in combat, eats away at the fuel for their main class feature Metamagic. (That may short-circuit the capstone feature of regaining 4 points after a short rest, but the capstone would at least work after *every* short rest - not that I'll be reaching that level with this character anyway.)
The important thing is that she *is* allowing me to have Origin Spells for my Wild-Magic Sorcerer, and letting me follow my idea to have them be spells that have been cast as part of a Wild-Magic Surge. (As well as letting me use Tides of Chaos and Surge as much as I like, and now even allowing 1 surge per day to be a random *unseen* effect so that it's not *always* repeats - as long as I'm the one handling it so she doesn't have to!) The spells that can be cast in a Surge are a nice set, very useful in combat with only 1 or 2 "ehns", so it's letting me make more character-based choices for the spells gained at level-up. And between that and the basic Metamagic/Font of Magic, I'm really not feeling too limited with my character's power, though I admit it helps that she's deliberately not optimized. Last session I got to bust out a clutch Third Fireball after 9 Orcs suddenly rushed in mid-combat! Which helped make up for having poisoned our Paladin with the Surge after Fireball #2...
Meta magics can be really powerful but some of them have been made close to innate with limitations on the spells used and which ones. For example aberrant mind sorcerer gets subtle spell and a cost discount on it's psionic spells.
I could definitely see future classes getting meta magic they apply for free to certain spells and if you wanted to back apply this kind of mechanic I have suggestions
Well, my point is, if Twinned is so powerful it's BASICALLY required, why not just make it innate so other metas can be chosen? I can't think of another that's SO important that you basically have to pick it or else you're shooting yourself in the foot. And it would allow for more direct tinkering and manipulation as a class feature to boot.
I would disagree with the premise and I don't see the difference. Quickened is the best metamagic in my opinion.
That aside your argument is Twinned is so powerful that there is not really a choice here, you have to take twinned. That is not really an argument for eliminating other choices. Choices are not bad even if they are substandard. Further when you consider multiclassing the choices become less straightforward. I can see a Rogue with a sorcerer dip wanting subtle spell instead of twinned spell because of the interplay with Rogue abilities, if you make it a standard class feature you don't have that option.
I think the current mechanic works well and in particular the ability to trade sorcery points and spell slots back and forth can be powerful and useful (even without Warlock abuse). A multiclass full caster can have slots well above what they have spells for, take a Druid/Sorcerer 4/5 for example. This character will have 4th and 5th level slots he can't use. The ability to convert these slots to SPs and then on to 1st and 2nd level slots is huge for casting spells like shield or goodberry.
It has a scaling cost based on spell level so you want a twinned polymorph any that would normally cost 9 points to be free? a Reduction in cost across the board like -1 at level 10 which would make some metas free I'd get, but twinned free is a bit much.
A "signature metamagic" ability could be interesting; I think a straight reduction in the cost of the chosen metamagic by 1 sorcery point wouldn't be too strong. Initially I thought it would mean Twinned Spell becomes a better version of a Death Cleric's Reaper ability (which only works with necromancy spells), however Reaper applies to higher level spells for free (after it levels up) whereas Twinned Spell would still cost, it just wouldn't cost as much (1 for a 2nd-level, 2 for a 3rd etc.).
Free Distant, Extended, Subtle etc. are situational enough that they shouldn't really be exploitable, it's just a cool ability to have. Empowered is a bit more borderline since it can be stacked, so you'd rarely have a reason not to use it, so it's free re-rolls of CHA damage dice on every spell, probably not any stronger than free Twinned cantrips or 1st level spells though so it's probably fine.
And really the big benefit is extending sorcery points; even if you pick Heightened Spell (normal three points) that's still 50% more uses for a control built that thrives on pushing enemies to fail their saves. Quickened Spell can be used twice as much if chosen for a build focused on multicasting etc.
It's a strong ability, but I think it would suit the Sorcerer at the right level (around 10th is probably about right)?
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Certainly won't deny that quickened is useful; but being able to twin a polymorph, twin a firebolt, twin a haste, or twin... pretty much anything... is just so much in regards to utility that I can't see any other choice coming close. Quickened has the problem that you can only do a normal spell and a cantrip. It's extremely useful, don't get me wrong, but not in the same league as the stuff you can pull off with twinned. I'd say it's number 2.
However, what I'm getting at here is a question of mechanics. Meta-magic just doesn't have the bang-for-buck needed to counter all the sorcs drawbacks compared to other casters. It's made worse because something like Heightened is simply not in the same league as Twinned or Quickened. So why not free up one of the very valuable meta-magic slots and allow for potentially more direct manipulation of the ability? Seems like a 'kill two birds with one stone' deal here.
Dude, I love Twinned, and that's the one I'm using the most, but you cannot Twin "pretty much anything." You can Quicken any spell that takes an Action, which comes a lot closer to "pretty much anything" than the limited list that qualifies for Twinned, especially since dev notes seem to be aiming to pare that list back even further.
And I know I'd rather have Twinned be available in the set of Metamagics to choose from right away at level 3, than have it be a class feature like Magical Guidance that likely wouldn't be available until a higher level. And even the class features or subclass features use sorcery points the same as the Metamagics.
Being able to take more metamagics at more intermediate levels would definitely help matters, but at least the Metamagic Adept feat helps bridge that gap a little meanwhile. And a little sorcery point restoration other than spell-slot conversion would be nice too, but at least the Bloodwell Vial allows a DM to give a player that option.
Still, it would help to have *some* nifty level 10 class or subclass feature, to fill in the level7-13 desert of "getting cool thing you couldn't have optionally done before"...
I like Twinned Spell but I wouldn't say it's mandatory; in my experience I tend to only use it with cantrips and the occasional low level spells, using it with anything higher level is often very situational, great when it comes up of course, but not something I do often enough to say it's a mandatory pick.
I use Quickened a lot more consistently, though sometimes that's paired with Twinned (since you can quicken an action spell, and then twin a cantrip to keep your damage up). But it's the quickening that's the key for me, letting me top up false life mid battle, or to activate a defensive spell like intellect fortress when I need it without losing a turn, rather than trying to guess in advance. In fact, I'd say Quickened Spell is more mandatory on a Divine Soul, as being able to bonus action bless is fantastic.
There are also plenty of times where I'm more glad to have had other metamagics; I like having Seeking spell in the back pocket (as a miss on a high level spell is horrible, especially when you consider the sorcery points you'd have to spend to get it back, if you even could), Heightened Spell is great for a control spell on a problematic elite enemy, Empowered Spell on a blast to crush a horde of enemies and so-on.
This is why I don't think Twinned Spell should be a mandatory choice; you can build a solid sorcerer without it, but I'd rather gain bonus/cheaper uses of a metamagic of my choice as sorcerers are versatile enough that different metamagics will suit different builds (and not necessarily specific ones for specific sub-classes either). That and more picks; Metamagic Adept has become a pretty much required feat on sorcerers as bringing us up to six metamagics for mid-levels is just so good, and two extra sorcery points never goes amiss.
Former D&D Beyond Customer of six years: With the axing of piecemeal purchasing, lack of meaningful development, and toxic moderation the site isn't worth paying for anymore. I remain a free user only until my groups are done migrating from DDB, and if necessary D&D, after which I'm done. There are better systems owned by better companies out there.
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Metamagic adept is probably a requirement for casters in general TBH. Just so useful.
Edit: Also, you're not considering, say, twin-casting Death Ward or healing spells or bless or something?
I haven't yet had a chance to play one (looking forward to it eventually!) but I'm not sure the class as a whole needs major revamping. I'd suggest the base class just needs a few more Sorcery Points and/or a buff to Sorcerous Restoration.
However, the subclasses need buffing - all the older ones need a few spells known as with the newest subclasses.
In addition:
Draconic needs to be able to turn into dragons. Maybe they could get some particularly draconic spells, with some trade-offs. E.g. Dragon's Breath, self-only and only your ancestral element, but non-concentration. True Polymorph, only self into a dragon (or half-dragon etc.) of your ancestry, but doesn't count against spells known and you can shift out of dragon form at any time.
Haravikk's homebrew also looks like an interesting fix that covers some of that ground.
Wild needs something.
Shadow is probably mostly okay. I'd make their Darkvision better, so it works the same as Devil's Sight (maybe it starts out as-is but upgrades at level 3 or level 6).
Storm needs something in addition to more spells. It's a really cool concept but needs a solid buff. More flight? More damage? It also needs a ranged lightning cantrip - which we can't call Lightning Bolt even if it's almost identical to Fire Bolt, because Lightning Bolt already exists. And it needs spells, including some it doesn't even have access to by RAW, like Call Lightning.
I think they also need better meta magic. Its sad that the evocation wizard has a better increase damage option than sorcerers, can exclude friendlies better, the enchanter twins for free where its a crippling cost for a sorcerer. Maybe not all of this but bring back maximize improve empower and careful spell, give heightened spell a effect everyone in the area option etc.
I think it's more like EB and agonizing blast on warlocks. Like its so good your gonna be hard pressed to find a warlock not running it but I don't think warlocks should just get EB+AB baseline and more options
I think what it does is really highlight that sorcerers should be getting MORE metamagic far earlier than lvl 10. like we should get our 2 at 3 than another 1 or 2 at 6 than more at 10. It's still all limited by how many spell points you have, not like any of them have a X per short rest limit so having more options to choose from isn't some massive power boost but still a welcome one
It's clear to see Sorcerers got utter crap for playtest time in 5e and it's just pathetic it's taking WotC 10 years to look at it.. This really is something that should of been fixed back in 2018, 2020 at the latest... how did it take 6 years for new metamagic to hit the game for instance?
I personally think warlock should be organised as the 3 pacts being attack styles. With eldritch blast being the domain of the tome and all 3 balanced to each other.
it would just generally make the class more cohesive and variable.
That kind of choice is different to meta magic though. The thing with meta magic is that they're all kind of situational they're not really a style of attack like the pacts boons are. A session could easily go by without it it coming into play at all and the impact is often so rare, fleeting and minor that you may not even notice when you do.
To fix this I see 3 options.
The current system of giving them the economy of spells which effects that don't remotely approach them I don't think works.
Without eldritch blast the other brands of warlocks would just use different cantrips and I really don't think you would miss it. The chain would use a different cantrip and then the pet would attack. The blade would use a different cantrip for range or a bow. As it currently stands eldritch blast takes the place of all of that, it takes all the cantrips, it functionally replaces the bow by performing a similar function more powerfully with less invocations and the familiar rarely plays a role in combat.
To me the current warlock design feels like a class made entirely around one weapon a magical heavy crossbow ( eldritch blast has identical stats to it). There's one sub class which lets you be effective with a different weapon, hex blade and that's it.
I also don't think eldritch blast works as a core class features. The customisations to it aren't really that great it's got some obligatory invocation picks and 1 interesting build around pushing and pulling.
It's in a bit of a limbo between a class feature and a cantrip at the moment. Its need to choose a side either sinking into the back ground with the rest of the cantrips or be elevated to full class feature and being integrated with other class mechanics. Now that can be done by buffing the other cantrips if you want it doesn't really matter if you sink eldritch blast to a cantrip or raise the entire world around it the effect is the same but its current limbo is detrimental to the class.
There's nothing wrong with eldritch blast; the problem is that so many invocations only apply to it, so there's no freedom to choose something else for a blaster build (or backup ranged option). I'd like to see the eldritch blast invocations opened up to work on more cantrips, and for maybe a few more "multi-shot" cantrips to be added that would scale the same with Agonizing Blast, and also just because it's the only one (I think, could be wrong, but certainly most others are single attack, scaled damage).
Not sure what this has to do with a Sorcerer revamp though; I don't mind that Warlocks can put out solid damage with just eldritch blast, because they have so few spell slots, can't twin spells etc. There's no need for Sorcerers to feel inadequate, Warlock in many ways is a kind of "martial caster" in the sense that it functions a lot like a Fighter with a lot of short rest bound resources, meaning they have staying power as opposed to the huge bursts of spellcasting other casters can do (and Sorcerers especially, thanks to Metamagics). The problem for Sorcerers for me is still the limited number of Metamagic choices; gimme more as standard, rebalance some of the weaker sub-classes (probably just add a spell list in most cases) and I'd be happy.
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