Given that Sorcerers have limited ability to choose spells and that Divine Souls only add to the difficulty by adding more options (the UA Favored Souls make matters worse, IMO, because the don't give the single free spell previously given by Divine Souls), what spells and cantrips should a character have for the first level?
I am very curious how others would approach this issue. I am a newer player and would like some input.
I lean toward the following but am open to other suggestions:
It depends on how you want to play your sorcerer, and your race. If you are playing a race that has darkvision then I wouldn't worry about a light cantrip, but if you don't have darkvision then I'm going to say go with light because it doesn't require your concentration to keep going so you can then cast another spell that requires concentration. So, for cantrips my choices would be: darkvision character's, mage hand, acid splash, prestidigitation, and mending; non-darkvision character's, mage hand, light, acid splash, prestidigitation. My 2 1st level spells would probably be burning hands, and comprehend languages. And my extra spell would be either cure wounds or protection from evil and good. Everybody has a different play style, so how I would build my Divine Souls sorcerer will be different than somebody else. I also don't usually play as a healer so I don't focus on healing even if I play a cleric. Just tailor your sorcerer to how you want to play and go from there. Hope I could be of help.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Remember this is a game and it's suppose to be fun for everybody. Let's all have fun and kill monsters.
And, I appreciate the input. Spells can be character, as well as party, driven. Since I play primarily with newer players, I was simply hoping that those with more experience could suggest what spells they choose and why. What is helpful and what is not.
I read many guides and watch videos (in particular, I think that Treantmonk is amazing; the Dungeon Dudes are a big help as well) but, I was hoping to also hear from other players. What do they do?
I get the sense that many players do not use the Divine Soul/Favored Soul. OR, that they don't have many suggestions for this particular type of sorcerer.
Keep in mind with the Divine Magic trait, you can swap it out for free at level up for another Cleric spell, so if you’re not into one of the options there, you can toss it out without going against the Sorcerers limited spell list.
Sorcerers in general are harder to plan out because of their limited spell selection, the Divne ones doubly so with access to the Cleric list. It’s hard to give a good solid advice without knowing who else is in the party, but Guidance as a cantrip is a solid choice, and I would take a strong look at Bless/Bane spells as well. Theyre great support spells that hold up through the game, but adding or subtracting from any roll in the early game can be a huge game changer. I’d switch it out for Guiding Bolt since as long as you maintain concentration, you’re helping the team longer throughout the fight.
I don’t know what you’re plan is for the long term with the character, but if you’re not planning on using melee a lot, I would avoid the Favored Soul. It synergies well for a few multi class dips, but overall I find the Divine Soul better on the whole.
I don't think that it's not a lot of people play a divine soul sorcerer, but more that everybody's play style is different. How you plan on playing the sorcerer is how you pick your cantrips and spells. If you planned on being more of a healbot with your sorcerer then my selection wouldn't do much good. My selection is based off of just a roleplay set up and not knowing the type of adventure. Also as Skorm said, it's also hard to plan your spells without knowing the party layout and what the main plot of the adventure is. As I told someone else in another post, play what you want to play and a good DM will work around any party weaknesses by the distribution of items and NPCs to fill in the void. No party is perfect and boy would the game be if it was. The whole fun of the game is to overcome the parties weaknesses and to learn from it. If you were to have a perfect party you would never learn what your characters aren't capable of because there is someone who covers that weakness. In the end the whole point of the game is to have fun, so have fun with however you build your character.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Remember this is a game and it's suppose to be fun for everybody. Let's all have fun and kill monsters.
Unfortunately, it is not possible for me to explain more about the particular character and/or party for help. That is why this request is so generic. It is simply a request for help to see if there was something I was missing.
In my current game, a future DM was talking about how his game would require all party members to have high charisma (I don't know if this is a good idea - tbh) and probably with connections to a criminal enterprise. This made me think of how to make a team based upon his limitations and what I saw missing was a healer/buffer.
I thought about a criminal who, while in prison, began to manage his innate magic that had been given to him by a god. This was the basic plan behind this character.
Well with that information it's a bit easier to give advice. I tell everybody that posts something like this, play what you want and don't worry about party make up. If you want to play a healer/buffer cool, but any good DM will balance the game to the party make up. Healer/buffers I see in 3 classes. You can play a bard, a divine soul sorcerer, or a celestial warlock. Bards are known for their buffing abilities and do have healing in their repertoire of spells and abilities. Divine soul sorcerers just seem like sorcerers who gain a bit of healing power. Celestial warlocks are healing warlocks with the expanded spell list that they get.
For what you are looking at doing I'd say your best options are bard and celestial warlock, because they are more versatile than the sorcerer in my opinion. I'd wait to see what everybody else rolling up before locking in what you want to be, because it can change your mind on what you want to be unless you a dead set on the character you have presented to us.
Hope this was a bit more helpful.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Remember this is a game and it's suppose to be fun for everybody. Let's all have fun and kill monsters.
If the party isnt a headless chicken group where everyone is panicking or everyones getting hit, shield of faith for buffing the plate warrior is often more effective than a heal later. heals and shield of faith style buffs are improve when you can twin them and have two protectee's for the price of one.
Warding bond at 2nd is not such a great idea unless you have a con score to offset your self harm and stop the concentration fails that will result in shared damage. You could consider prayer of healing but be cautious, if you can take 10 minutes to cast you could take 10 minutes to rest. If you do take it, consider taking inspiring leadership instead or as well to maximise a shortrest recovery.
At third spirit guardians is great, it depends on whether your combats are with multiple opponents and take multiple rounds or not. (fireball for quick, spirit guardians for behind the metal armour types to slow people attacking and rip them up round by round and help prevent escapes)
No problems, at first level the constraints your under are a resource management pain. Cantrips are roughly similar to my pick except I would have included toll the dead for when hitting is an issue, not many creatures have bad wisdom saves, but also few have amazing wisdom saves. It also deals more damage than others, which is a +.
Utility Synergy and flavour combine if you use a Yuanti as your race and are a celestial sorcerer of Quetzacoatl mixing up the spells as Coatl do. I liked reskinning dragons breath at 2nd level to wings of Quetzacoatl as a feathered serpent jungle refugee.
For my cantrips, I like to have two attack cantrips: one that requires an attack roll, and one that requires a save. I prefer to make attack rolls (long time melee player). I am partial to firebolt and ray of frost. Generally, I like RoF better because the slow effect impresses me more than an upgrade from D8 to D10 does, but for a fire-based sorc, I'd pick firebolt. For my save spell, I generally look at Toll the Dead or Frostbite if I am looking for a cold based sorc. I would sacrifice the attack roll spell before the save though if I wanted to have 3 utility cantrips. I can always use my crossbow for an attack roll situation.
For my other two cantrips, I like to take utility. It depends on what kind of utility you are looking for. My personal favorites are mending and prestidigitation. I use mending fairly regularly, in fact my party's last session I used mending twice to great effect to my party. Prestigitation can be fun, but also useful Your party has darkvision, and the bandits are all human? Prestidigitation their torch out and profit. There are a lot of great choices here, it's all about what do you think you might need to do? How do you envision using your utility cantrips? If you don't have darkvision, or you have non darkvision characters in your party (I do, two of them), a light spell might be a better pick. My Divine Sorlock is a half drow; light is better, but my freebie dancing lights is better than nothing and gets used. Guidance is also a great spell. I'd have taken it if not for thematic reasons. I really miss it on my sorlock.
For my "class" spell, I like bless (law) a lot. It's not thematically appropriate for my current sorlock but I've played some cleric, and I find that bless brings a lot to the party. Since I am going to stand in the back anyways AND I have con proficency for my conc saves, keeping bless running with my conc is a big party multiplier, and lets your cleric do other cool stuff with his conc.
For healing, I like to use healing word rather then cure wounds. My primary job is to do damage, so using my bonus action to heal allows me to cast an offensive spell with my action. Shield is another favorite spell. That's another spell that I got some use out of last session. An orc got into melee range and thwacked me pretty hard with his scimitar. I didn't think I could take many more of those hits, so I moved out of range...which provoked an opportunity attack. He landed the hit, but I shielded which prevented the hit and got out of dodge.
If I were building another divine sorc and theme were not a factor, I'd go half-drow with drow magic for the extra spells. Faerie Fire is a great support spell too. If not, high-half elf with a support cantrip as the racial, such as light. For my normal cantrips I'd take Guidance, Ray of Frost, Toll the Dead and...either prestidigitation or mending. If I am smart, I will be probably using my crossbow as my at-will damage most of the time until level 5 no matter how distasteful that is to me. it's going to be better damage than an attack cantrip.
For my power source, I am taking law, so I can bless from the back. one spell slot with an effect for an entire combat? Yes, please. Next, I am taking healing word. Level 1 is pretty lethal and getting someone back on their feet after a lucky crit can be clutch. Finally, I am taking shield. I probably won't use it at level 1 unless I can't avoid it because the spell slots are precious. It's better to have and not need than to need and not have.
I like guiding bolt, but on a level 1 character, I simply don't feel there's room for it. It's a good bit of damage. Advantage on the next attack is nice, but it's a one-time thing. With my limited spell slots, I want to use them to have a greater impact.
All in all, that probably looks more like a cleric than it does a sorc at level 1. I just feel with the limited spell slots, you need to have as impactful spells as possible, and the divine side of the house has more in my opinion. Once I start building some levels, I will ramp up on my offense and start blowing monsters to pieces.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
For my cantrips, I like to have two attack cantrips: one that requires an attack roll, and one that requires a save. I prefer to make attack rolls (long time melee player). I am partial to firebolt and ray of frost. Generally, I like RoF better because the slow effect impresses me more than an upgrade from D8 to D10 does, but for a fire-based sorc, I'd pick firebolt. For my save spell, I generally look at Toll the Dead or Frostbite if I am looking for a cold based sorc. I would sacrifice the attack roll spell before the save though if I wanted to have 3 utility cantrips. I can always use my crossbow for an attack roll situation.
I agree about the two attack cantrips - one with an attack roll and another with a save. It is interesting that you would suggest dropping the attack roll cantrip and using a crossbow instead. This is a good idea IMO.Also, I completely agree about RoF. The rider is very nice.
Guidance is also a great spell.
Yes. It is.
For my "class" spell, I like bless (law) a lot. . . . I find that bless brings a lot to the party.
For healing, I like to use healing word rather then cure wounds. My primary job is to do damage, so using my bonus action to heal allows me to cast an offensive spell with my action. Shield is another favorite spell. That's another spell that I got some use out of last session.
Also great ideas.
If I were building another divine sorc and theme were not a factor, I'd go half-drow with drow magic for the extra spells. Faerie Fire is a great support spell too. If not, high-half elf with a support cantrip as the racial, such as light. For my normal cantrips I'd take Guidance, Ray of Frost, Toll the Dead and...either prestidigitation or mending. If I am smart, I will be probably using my crossbow as my at-will damage most of the time until level 5 no matter how distasteful that is to me. it's going to be better damage than an attack cantrip.
For my power source, I am taking law, so I can bless from the back. one spell slot with an effect for an entire combat? Yes, please. Next, I am taking healing word. Level 1 is pretty lethal and getting someone back on their feet after a lucky crit can be clutch. Finally, I am taking shield. I probably won't use it at level 1 unless I can't avoid it because the spell slots are precious. It's better to have and not need than to need and not have.
I like guiding bolt, but on a level 1 character, I simply don't feel there's room for it. It's a good bit of damage. Advantage on the next attack is nice, but it's a one-time thing. With my limited spell slots, I want to use them to have a greater impact.
All in all, that probably looks more like a cleric than it does a sorc at level 1. I just feel with the limited spell slots, you need to have as impactful spells as possible, and the divine side of the house has more in my opinion. Once I start building some levels, I will ramp up on my offense and start blowing monsters to pieces.
Guiding bolt, bane, and cure wounds (bonus spell) worked out amazingly well.
@2nd level I dipped into wizard with 14 int for a spell book consisting of mage armor, shield, absorb elements, find familiar, identify, and comprehend languages. This basically added 3 spells to the known list + ritual casting
Bless was good, bane seemed to work better, sleep was worthless even at L1
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
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Given that Sorcerers have limited ability to choose spells and that Divine Souls only add to the difficulty by adding more options (the UA Favored Souls make matters worse, IMO, because the don't give the single free spell previously given by Divine Souls), what spells and cantrips should a character have for the first level?
I am very curious how others would approach this issue. I am a newer player and would like some input.
I lean toward the following but am open to other suggestions:
Cantrips that I like:
Dancing Lights or Light (it helps to be able to see)
Chill Touch, Fire bolt or Ray of Frost (the character needs some offensive magic; I like the riders for Chill Touch and Ray of Frost best)
Minor Illusion
Mage Hand
Cantrips that I do not like (and why):
All Melee cantrips - these just don't make sense to me since this character will not fare well in melee
Spare the Dying - too specific to be very helpful; this can also be prevented in other ways
Shocking Grasp - great for getting out of melee, but not much else
Spell Choices:
Guiding Bolt
Shield
Divine Souls get an extra spell for free based on their alignment; UA Favored Souls get no spells (rather they get more HP and some resistance).
Chaos = Bane
Evil = Inflict Wounds
Good = Cure Wounds
Law = Bless
Neutrality = Protection from Evil and Good
I would love to take Healing Word at the first level but do not see the space for it.
What do other players do?
It depends on how you want to play your sorcerer, and your race. If you are playing a race that has darkvision then I wouldn't worry about a light cantrip, but if you don't have darkvision then I'm going to say go with light because it doesn't require your concentration to keep going so you can then cast another spell that requires concentration. So, for cantrips my choices would be: darkvision character's, mage hand, acid splash, prestidigitation, and mending; non-darkvision character's, mage hand, light, acid splash, prestidigitation. My 2 1st level spells would probably be burning hands, and comprehend languages. And my extra spell would be either cure wounds or protection from evil and good. Everybody has a different play style, so how I would build my Divine Souls sorcerer will be different than somebody else. I also don't usually play as a healer so I don't focus on healing even if I play a cleric. Just tailor your sorcerer to how you want to play and go from there. Hope I could be of help.
Remember this is a game and it's suppose to be fun for everybody. Let's all have fun and kill monsters.
Thank you for responding.
And, I appreciate the input. Spells can be character, as well as party, driven. Since I play primarily with newer players, I was simply hoping that those with more experience could suggest what spells they choose and why. What is helpful and what is not.
I read many guides and watch videos (in particular, I think that Treantmonk is amazing; the Dungeon Dudes are a big help as well) but, I was hoping to also hear from other players. What do they do?
I get the sense that many players do not use the Divine Soul/Favored Soul. OR, that they don't have many suggestions for this particular type of sorcerer.
Keep in mind with the Divine Magic trait, you can swap it out for free at level up for another Cleric spell, so if you’re not into one of the options there, you can toss it out without going against the Sorcerers limited spell list.
Sorcerers in general are harder to plan out because of their limited spell selection, the Divne ones doubly so with access to the Cleric list. It’s hard to give a good solid advice without knowing who else is in the party, but Guidance as a cantrip is a solid choice, and I would take a strong look at Bless/Bane spells as well. Theyre great support spells that hold up through the game, but adding or subtracting from any roll in the early game can be a huge game changer. I’d switch it out for Guiding Bolt since as long as you maintain concentration, you’re helping the team longer throughout the fight.
I don’t know what you’re plan is for the long term with the character, but if you’re not planning on using melee a lot, I would avoid the Favored Soul. It synergies well for a few multi class dips, but overall I find the Divine Soul better on the whole.
I don't think that it's not a lot of people play a divine soul sorcerer, but more that everybody's play style is different. How you plan on playing the sorcerer is how you pick your cantrips and spells. If you planned on being more of a healbot with your sorcerer then my selection wouldn't do much good. My selection is based off of just a roleplay set up and not knowing the type of adventure. Also as Skorm said, it's also hard to plan your spells without knowing the party layout and what the main plot of the adventure is. As I told someone else in another post, play what you want to play and a good DM will work around any party weaknesses by the distribution of items and NPCs to fill in the void. No party is perfect and boy would the game be if it was. The whole fun of the game is to overcome the parties weaknesses and to learn from it. If you were to have a perfect party you would never learn what your characters aren't capable of because there is someone who covers that weakness. In the end the whole point of the game is to have fun, so have fun with however you build your character.
Remember this is a game and it's suppose to be fun for everybody. Let's all have fun and kill monsters.
Thank you both for sharing.
Unfortunately, it is not possible for me to explain more about the particular character and/or party for help. That is why this request is so generic. It is simply a request for help to see if there was something I was missing.
In my current game, a future DM was talking about how his game would require all party members to have high charisma (I don't know if this is a good idea - tbh) and probably with connections to a criminal enterprise. This made me think of how to make a team based upon his limitations and what I saw missing was a healer/buffer.
I thought about a criminal who, while in prison, began to manage his innate magic that had been given to him by a god. This was the basic plan behind this character.
Well with that information it's a bit easier to give advice. I tell everybody that posts something like this, play what you want and don't worry about party make up. If you want to play a healer/buffer cool, but any good DM will balance the game to the party make up. Healer/buffers I see in 3 classes. You can play a bard, a divine soul sorcerer, or a celestial warlock. Bards are known for their buffing abilities and do have healing in their repertoire of spells and abilities. Divine soul sorcerers just seem like sorcerers who gain a bit of healing power. Celestial warlocks are healing warlocks with the expanded spell list that they get.
For what you are looking at doing I'd say your best options are bard and celestial warlock, because they are more versatile than the sorcerer in my opinion. I'd wait to see what everybody else rolling up before locking in what you want to be, because it can change your mind on what you want to be unless you a dead set on the character you have presented to us.
Hope this was a bit more helpful.
Remember this is a game and it's suppose to be fun for everybody. Let's all have fun and kill monsters.
If the party isnt a headless chicken group where everyone is panicking or everyones getting hit, shield of faith for buffing the plate warrior is often more effective than a heal later. heals and shield of faith style buffs are improve when you can twin them and have two protectee's for the price of one.
Warding bond at 2nd is not such a great idea unless you have a con score to offset your self harm and stop the concentration fails that will result in shared damage. You could consider prayer of healing but be cautious, if you can take 10 minutes to cast you could take 10 minutes to rest. If you do take it, consider taking inspiring leadership instead or as well to maximise a shortrest recovery.
At third spirit guardians is great, it depends on whether your combats are with multiple opponents and take multiple rounds or not. (fireball for quick, spirit guardians for behind the metal armour types to slow people attacking and rip them up round by round and help prevent escapes)
Once again, I appreciate the help.
No problems, at first level the constraints your under are a resource management pain. Cantrips are roughly similar to my pick except I would have included toll the dead for when hitting is an issue, not many creatures have bad wisdom saves, but also few have amazing wisdom saves. It also deals more damage than others, which is a +.
Utility Synergy and flavour combine if you use a Yuanti as your race and are a celestial sorcerer of Quetzacoatl mixing up the spells as Coatl do. I liked reskinning dragons breath at 2nd level to wings of Quetzacoatl as a feathered serpent jungle refugee.
I would 100% use toll the dead, a utility cantrip, and two other offensive cantrips
for l1 spells, I’d say Cure Wounds and either chaos bolt or burning hands
the last two depend on if you want AoE or single-target attack
For my cantrips, I like to have two attack cantrips: one that requires an attack roll, and one that requires a save. I prefer to make attack rolls (long time melee player). I am partial to firebolt and ray of frost. Generally, I like RoF better because the slow effect impresses me more than an upgrade from D8 to D10 does, but for a fire-based sorc, I'd pick firebolt. For my save spell, I generally look at Toll the Dead or Frostbite if I am looking for a cold based sorc. I would sacrifice the attack roll spell before the save though if I wanted to have 3 utility cantrips. I can always use my crossbow for an attack roll situation.
For my other two cantrips, I like to take utility. It depends on what kind of utility you are looking for. My personal favorites are mending and prestidigitation. I use mending fairly regularly, in fact my party's last session I used mending twice to great effect to my party. Prestigitation can be fun, but also useful Your party has darkvision, and the bandits are all human? Prestidigitation their torch out and profit. There are a lot of great choices here, it's all about what do you think you might need to do? How do you envision using your utility cantrips? If you don't have darkvision, or you have non darkvision characters in your party (I do, two of them), a light spell might be a better pick. My Divine Sorlock is a half drow; light is better, but my freebie dancing lights is better than nothing and gets used. Guidance is also a great spell. I'd have taken it if not for thematic reasons. I really miss it on my sorlock.
For my "class" spell, I like bless (law) a lot. It's not thematically appropriate for my current sorlock but I've played some cleric, and I find that bless brings a lot to the party. Since I am going to stand in the back anyways AND I have con proficency for my conc saves, keeping bless running with my conc is a big party multiplier, and lets your cleric do other cool stuff with his conc.
For healing, I like to use healing word rather then cure wounds. My primary job is to do damage, so using my bonus action to heal allows me to cast an offensive spell with my action. Shield is another favorite spell. That's another spell that I got some use out of last session. An orc got into melee range and thwacked me pretty hard with his scimitar. I didn't think I could take many more of those hits, so I moved out of range...which provoked an opportunity attack. He landed the hit, but I shielded which prevented the hit and got out of dodge.
If I were building another divine sorc and theme were not a factor, I'd go half-drow with drow magic for the extra spells. Faerie Fire is a great support spell too. If not, high-half elf with a support cantrip as the racial, such as light. For my normal cantrips I'd take Guidance, Ray of Frost, Toll the Dead and...either prestidigitation or mending. If I am smart, I will be probably using my crossbow as my at-will damage most of the time until level 5 no matter how distasteful that is to me. it's going to be better damage than an attack cantrip.
For my power source, I am taking law, so I can bless from the back. one spell slot with an effect for an entire combat? Yes, please. Next, I am taking healing word. Level 1 is pretty lethal and getting someone back on their feet after a lucky crit can be clutch. Finally, I am taking shield. I probably won't use it at level 1 unless I can't avoid it because the spell slots are precious. It's better to have and not need than to need and not have.
I like guiding bolt, but on a level 1 character, I simply don't feel there's room for it. It's a good bit of damage. Advantage on the next attack is nice, but it's a one-time thing. With my limited spell slots, I want to use them to have a greater impact.
All in all, that probably looks more like a cleric than it does a sorc at level 1. I just feel with the limited spell slots, you need to have as impactful spells as possible, and the divine side of the house has more in my opinion. Once I start building some levels, I will ramp up on my offense and start blowing monsters to pieces.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
I agree about the two attack cantrips - one with an attack roll and another with a save. It is interesting that you would suggest dropping the attack roll cantrip and using a crossbow instead. This is a good idea IMO.Also, I completely agree about RoF. The rider is very nice.
Yes. It is.
Also great ideas.
Excellent ideas. Thanks for the input.
Guiding bolt, bane, and cure wounds (bonus spell) worked out amazingly well.
@2nd level I dipped into wizard with 14 int for a spell book consisting of mage armor, shield, absorb elements, find familiar, identify, and comprehend languages. This basically added 3 spells to the known list + ritual casting
Bless was good, bane seemed to work better, sleep was worthless even at L1
Let me just say that twin cast chaos bolts that both spark doubles is incredible
you can't twin Chaos bolt because it/can/ affect more than one creature. https://twitter.com/jeremyecrawford/status/852697741968818176?lang=en
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha