I always thought the additional metamagic options made the sorcerer much more powerful then the other magic classes such that the capstone wasn't needed. I wouldn't say the class is unbalanced overall...
I always thought the additional metamagic options made the sorcerer much more powerful then the other magic classes such that the capstone wasn't needed. I wouldn't say the class is unbalanced overall...
As a general rule, if it's a genuinely good idea for members of a spellcasting class to duck out for two levels of fighter because action surge is better than their capstone, their capstone needs work.
I always thought the additional metamagic options made the sorcerer much more powerful then the other magic classes such that the capstone wasn't needed. I wouldn't say the class is unbalanced overall...
As a general rule, if it's a genuinely good idea for members of a spellcasting class to duck out for two levels of fighter because action surge is better than their capstone, their capstone needs work.
Bards, Warlocks and Sorcerer's agree. Cleric, Druid and Wizard Capstones are fine.
Sorcerous Might "At 20th level, you unlock the secret to amplifying your magic with the raw power of your sorcerous origin. When you cast a sorcerer spell of 1st level or higher using a spell slot, you may spend sorcery points to increase the level of that spell, rather than expending a higher-level spell slot. The cost is one sorcery point for each extra level above the slot used to cast the spell. Using this ability counts as Metamagic (you cannot add a Metamagic option to the spell unless that option says you can do so)."
Sorcerers at 20th level become the undisputed kings of upcasting; their limited spells-known pool is balanced out by being able to empower and overcharge their spells like nobody else can. A sorcerer's innate magic is supposed to grant them unparalleled magical power; they're supposed to make up for being dumber than wizards, uglier than bards, and having less friends than warlocks or clerics with power.
Let them have some power at level 20, then.
This is pure gold, and I was looking for something just like it.
I think I'm going to house rule this as the sorcerer capstone feature in my homebrew world.
Sorcerous Might "At 20th level, you unlock the secret to amplifying your magic with the raw power of your sorcerous origin. When you cast a sorcerer spell of 1st level or higher using a spell slot, you may spend sorcery points to increase the level of that spell, rather than expending a higher-level spell slot. The cost is one sorcery point for each extra level above the slot used to cast the spell. Using this ability counts as Metamagic (you cannot add a Metamagic option to the spell unless that option says you can do so)."
Sorcerers at 20th level become the undisputed kings of upcasting; their limited spells-known pool is balanced out by being able to empower and overcharge their spells like nobody else can. A sorcerer's innate magic is supposed to grant them unparalleled magical power; they're supposed to make up for being dumber than wizards, uglier than bards, and having less friends than warlocks or clerics with power.
Let them have some power at level 20, then.
I think this one is really cool. On the other hand a bit on the overpowered part of the spectrum. A sorcerer would be able to cast Meteor Swarm 3 times in single combat. But I like that it is a trade-off you wouldn't be able to use your meta magics after such casting. Also, it works for all kinds of sorcerers, not just blasters.
But you wouldn't, the way I'm reading this. Ninth-level spells wouldn't be available, because you'd still need to start with a 9th-level spell slot.
For example, you choose to cast, say, Catapult. A 1st-level spell. So you would be expending that spell slot, but if you wanted to give it 7th-level spell power, you'd spend 6 sorcerer points to effectively increase the power of the slot itself.
This lets lower-level spells be boosted for a reasonable trade-off of sorcerer points, while keeping nonsense like multiple free wishes a day out of the equation.
sorry it took so long to reply, I haven't been on D&D beyond in a while so I couldn't respond. About what does this have to do with sorcerers in general, when I see the description of a sorcerer it looks to me like the magic comes from inside of them. so this spell is pulling the magic from inside your teammates(decreasing there health in the process) and using the power to decrease the hit points of an enemy. if the enemy has large amounts of health, the magic inside of a player will not be able to destroy the being. does this make sense whatsoever?
sorry it took so long to reply, I haven't been on D&D beyond in a while so I couldn't respond. About what does this have to do with sorcerers in general, when I see the description of a sorcerer it looks to me like the magic comes from inside of them. so this spell is pulling the magic from inside your teammates(decreasing there health in the process) and using the power to decrease the hit points of an enemy. if the enemy has large amounts of health, the magic inside of a player will not be able to destroy the being. does this make sense whatsoever?
No because you didn’t quote the post. I’m sure it would if I knew which post you meant.
This isn't actually a signature, just something I copy and paste onto the bottom of all my posts. Or is it? Yep, it is. Or is it..? I’m a hobbit, and the master cranial imploder of the "Oops, I Accidently Destroyed Someone's Brain" cult. Extended sig. I'm actually in Limbo, it says I'm in Mechanus because that's where I get my WiFi from. Please don't tell the modrons, they're still angry from the 'Spawning Stone' fiasco. No connection to Dragonslayer8 other than knowing them in real life.
You gain an additional 10 sorcery points, which can be used as normal. Whenever you roll for initiative at the start of combat and have fewer than 10 sorcery points, you regain 8 sorcery points.
In addition, you choose one metamagic option that you know. When you cast sorcerer cantrips or spells that you know, you can use the chosen metamagic option without expending sorcery points. You cannot use this feature on spells of a level higher than 3rd.
Is this too overpowered?
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You gain an additional 10 sorcery points, which can be used as normal. Whenever you roll for initiative at the start of combat and have fewer than 10 sorcery points, you regain 8 sorcery points.
In addition, you choose one metamagic option that you know. When you cast sorcerer cantrips or spells that you know, you can use the chosen metamagic option without expending sorcery points. You cannot use this feature on spells of a level higher than 3rd.
Is this too overpowered?
Kind of.
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This isn't actually a signature, just something I copy and paste onto the bottom of all my posts. Or is it? Yep, it is. Or is it..? I’m a hobbit, and the master cranial imploder of the "Oops, I Accidently Destroyed Someone's Brain" cult. Extended sig. I'm actually in Limbo, it says I'm in Mechanus because that's where I get my WiFi from. Please don't tell the modrons, they're still angry from the 'Spawning Stone' fiasco. No connection to Dragonslayer8 other than knowing them in real life.
You gain an additional 10 sorcery points, which can be used as normal. Whenever you roll for initiative at the start of combat and have fewer than 10 sorcery points, you regain 8 sorcery points.
In addition, you choose one metamagic option that you know. When you cast sorcerer cantrips or spells that you know, you can use the chosen metamagic option without expending sorcery points. You cannot use this feature on spells of a level higher than 3rd.
Is this too overpowered?
Kind of.
That's what I thought. Maybe get an additional 5 (instead of 10), and regain 10 if you have none (instead of <10)? (Keeping the second part.)
Or just replace the whole thing with this:
Immediately after you take damage, you can use your reaction and spend 6 sorcery points to become immune to that damage type (or whatever damage type dealt the most damage to you, if you took damage of more than one type) until the start of you next turn.
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You merge with magic, not the weave as most know it, but as its primal form untouched by Mystra, a wellspring of infinite power and possibility.
You can cast detect magic and identify at will, without expending a spell slot. In addition, creatures have disadvantage on checks made to dispel or counter your spells, and while you or a target of one of your spells is in an antimagic field you can still cast spells, but you have disadvantage on spell attacks and creatures have advantage on saves against your spells.
Also, you cannot die of old age, you stop aging and any effect that would age you has no effect. This works differently depending on your sorcerous origin.
Shadow Magic: You only age while in bright light or for 1 minute after taking radiant damage, and for every 8 hours you spend in darkness you become one year younger, to a minimum age of the age you gained this feature.
Divine Soul: You only age while within thirty feet of an evil creature (if good), good creature (if evil), or lawful good or chaotic evil creature (if neutral), and for every 8 hours you spend within thirty feet of an evil creature (if evil), good creature (if good) or neutral creature (if neutral) you become one year younger, to a minimum age of the age you gained this feature.
Draconic Bloodline: For every thousand years that pass you only age 1 year, and you can spend one spell slot as an action to become one year younger, to a minimum age of the age you gained this feature.
Wild Magic: You can die of old age. Whenever you finish a long rest or trigger a wild magic surge, flip a coin. If it lands on heads, you age backward at twice the normal speed, to a minimum age of your charisma modifier + 1d20. If it lands on tails, you age normally at twice the normal speed. If you die of old age you instantly turn to dust, and reform at the age of 13 after 24 hours in the closest unoccupied space from where you died. If the coin lands on its side and doesn't fall over, the speed at which you age is permanently and cumulatively doubled.
Storm Soul: You only age while you don't have clear path to the sky, and for every 8 hours you spend in story conditions you become one year younger, to a minimum age of the age you gained this feature.
Aberrant Mind: You now longer age, instead you slowly evolve into a different creature of the DM's choice after a number of years equal to your races average age times 50.
Clockwork Soul: You are trapped in a stasis and no longer age. If you are exposed to forces of pure chaos, such as Limbo or a wild magic surge the stasis is ended for a time period of the DM's choice.
Re: If the coin lands on its side and doesn't fall over, the speed at which you age is permanently and cumulatively doubled. I would add "or halved depending on which face of the coin you happen to be looking at at the time; or which face the sunlight or moonlight happens to be shinning on", etc; otherwise you will eventually be old forever.
I do like this idea of a version of Apotheosis being the level 20 ability best though, followed by the one where you can use sorcery points in stead of spell slots to upcast your spells.
An idea of my own is: "Living Spell" I don't this this one would qualify as a capstone, versus one of those that start at a lower level and scale; but the gist is that you pick one specific spell from a list, say unseen servant for example, and instead of ever disipating, the spell persists indefinitely taking on life of it's own/feeding on ambient magic, and becomming a companion. You can only ever have one at a time which can only be of a level you can cast or lower. -this because I like the idea of something that can serve the function of a familiar spirit whithout necessarily needing a feat or level of wizard to get.
You gain an additional 10 sorcery points, which can be used as normal. Whenever you roll for initiative at the start of combat and have fewer than 10 sorcery points, you regain 8 sorcery points.
In addition, you choose one metamagic option that you know. When you cast sorcerer cantrips or spells that you know, you can use the chosen metamagic option without expending sorcery points. You cannot use this feature on spells of a level higher than 3rd.
Is this too overpowered?
Kind of.
That's what I thought. Maybe get an additional 5 (instead of 10), and regain 10 if you have none (instead of <10)? (Keeping the second part.)
Or just replace the whole thing with this:
Immediately after you take damage, you can use your reaction and spend 6 sorcery points to become immune to that damage type (or whatever damage type dealt the most damage to you, if you took damage of more than one type) until the start of you next turn.
the second part is arguably the strongest already, and is also quite the redundant feature. Honestly that whole thing has a lot of redundancies, you don't need to at the same time give the player more sorcery points, increase the recovery of sorcery points and give the player an option to not need to use sorcery points at all, too much to keep track of and all of it ultimately serves the same function of conserving sorcery points.
Maybe try something a bit simpler, something with less "moving parts" so to speak, maybe something like this: "if you cast a sorcerer spell of 2nd level or higher with a casting time of 1 action on your turn, you can use a bonus action to regain a number of sorcery points equal to the spell's level - 1 (maximum of 5)". Does something similar in that it preserves your sorcery points such that you are able to more or less freely use metamagic quite frequently, but with less fuss
the second feature is kinda mediocre when considering the incredible cost associated with it, and also is not in any way connected to being a sorcerer. It's ultimately not physical hardiness that makes a sorcerer a sorcerer, it's their command of magic, just like how the wizard's capstone relates to their spellcasting and their core identity and how the barbarian's capstone relates to the physical strength associated with barbarians as well as the rage feature you have been using up to this point.
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i am soup, with too many ideas (all of them very spicy) who has made sufficient homebrew material and character to last an thousand human lifetimes
I think I would be happy with just a larger gain of SP. Metamagics are powerful and fun and getting to more of them is pretty good, 4 per short rest seems pretty underwhelming for a capstone though. Maybe like 8-10 SP per SR would be good?
At 17th lvl grant them spell mastery with their 1st - 3rd lvl spells. This allows them to burn their 1st-3rd lvls spell slots for additional sorcery points allowing them to really dig deep into their metamagic.
I would do this at 18th level and move the 18th bloodline power to 20th level thus being the new capstone. Some of the 18th bloodline powers might need to be re-balanced.
Honestly this combo is an excellent solution, going with subclass specific capstones incentivizes single classing sorcerer more instead dipping two levels in pally for smite,fighter for action surge or warlock for short rest slots, since there is no reason to reach 20 as oppsed to 18 for subclass capstones.
At 17th lvl grant them spell mastery with their 1st - 3rd lvl spells. This allows them to burn their 1st-3rd lvls spell slots for additional sorcery points allowing them to really dig deep into their metamagic.
I would do this at 18th level and move the 18th bloodline power to 20th level thus being the new capstone. Some of the 18th bloodline powers might need to be re-balanced.
Honestly this combo is an excellent solution, going with subclass specific capstones incentivizes single classing sorcerer more instead dipping two levels in pally for smite,fighter for action surge or warlock for short rest slots, since there is no reason to reach 20 as oppsed to 18 for subclass capstones.
now the current capstone may be bad, but it is still orders of magnitude better than a 2-level dip into warlock if all you want from it is short rest resources. 4 sorcery points per short rest can give you either two 1st level spell slots or 1 2nd level spell slot, 2 levels of warlock is a mere 2 1st level spell slots that may or may not be convertible to half the relevant number of sorcery points depending on how your dm interprets the rules.
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i am soup, with too many ideas (all of them very spicy) who has made sufficient homebrew material and character to last an thousand human lifetimes
At 17th lvl grant them spell mastery with their 1st - 3rd lvl spells. This allows them to burn their 1st-3rd lvls spell slots for additional sorcery points allowing them to really dig deep into their metamagic.
I would do this at 18th level and move the 18th bloodline power to 20th level thus being the new capstone. Some of the 18th bloodline powers might need to be re-balanced.
Honestly this combo is an excellent solution, going with subclass specific capstones incentivizes single classing sorcerer more instead dipping two levels in pally for smite,fighter for action surge or warlock for short rest slots, since there is no reason to reach 20 as oppsed to 18 for subclass capstones.
now the current capstone may be bad, but it is still orders of magnitude better than a 2-level dip into warlock if all you want from it is short rest resources. 4 sorcery points per short rest can give you either two 1st level spell slots or 1 2nd level spell slot, 2 levels of warlock is a mere 2 1st level spell slots that may or may not be convertible to half the relevant number of sorcery points depending on how your dm interprets the rules.
You're not wrong but that two level warlock dip still gives more in the form of eldritch invocations(one more than eldritch adept) while providing a similar function to the class capstone.
Honestly if capstone was equal to half your sorcerer level it wouldn't feel as underwhelming.
Your mastery of the magic within you has grown and you no longer consume spell slots when you cast 1st level spells at first level. Casting a 1st level spell at 4th level will still consume a 4th level spell slot As well, on a Short Rest, you can recover SP instead of HP, a maximum of 2 d8 per Short Rest to a maximum of 4 d8 between Long Rests.
I allows recovery of SP on Short Rests, adds SP to the overall pool by allowing all 1st level slots to be converted and demonstrates a deeper mastery of their innate gifts, akin to the Wizard's intimate understanding of certain spells. Allows the Sorcerer to really open up and blast using Metamagic at will and more freely, while making some possible utility spells more accessible and frequently used.
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I always thought the additional metamagic options made the sorcerer much more powerful then the other magic classes such that the capstone wasn't needed. I wouldn't say the class is unbalanced overall...
As a general rule, if it's a genuinely good idea for members of a spellcasting class to duck out for two levels of fighter because action surge is better than their capstone, their capstone needs work.
Bards, Warlocks and Sorcerer's agree. Cleric, Druid and Wizard Capstones are fine.
This is pure gold, and I was looking for something just like it.
I think I'm going to house rule this as the sorcerer capstone feature in my homebrew world.
Whistler
Titus - V. Human Battle Master Fighter 3 - [Pic] - [Pic2] - [Traits] - in Shadowglass
Locke - V. Human Shadow Monk 3 / Undead Warlock 2 - [Pic] - [Traits] - in FOW - DMless West Marches
Flèche - V. Human Swords Bard 10 - [Pic] - [Traits] - in The Scarlet Mist
Sterling - V. Human Bard 1 - [Pic] - [Traits] - in Bards: Dragon Heist
>> New FOW threat & treasure tables: fow-advanced-threat-tables.pdf fow-advanced-treasure-table.pdf
But you wouldn't, the way I'm reading this. Ninth-level spells wouldn't be available, because you'd still need to start with a 9th-level spell slot.
For example, you choose to cast, say, Catapult. A 1st-level spell. So you would be expending that spell slot, but if you wanted to give it 7th-level spell power, you'd spend 6 sorcerer points to effectively increase the power of the slot itself.
This lets lower-level spells be boosted for a reasonable trade-off of sorcerer points, while keeping nonsense like multiple free wishes a day out of the equation.
Whistler
Titus - V. Human Battle Master Fighter 3 - [Pic] - [Pic2] - [Traits] - in Shadowglass
Locke - V. Human Shadow Monk 3 / Undead Warlock 2 - [Pic] - [Traits] - in FOW - DMless West Marches
Flèche - V. Human Swords Bard 10 - [Pic] - [Traits] - in The Scarlet Mist
Sterling - V. Human Bard 1 - [Pic] - [Traits] - in Bards: Dragon Heist
>> New FOW threat & treasure tables: fow-advanced-threat-tables.pdf fow-advanced-treasure-table.pdf
sorry it took so long to reply, I haven't been on D&D beyond in a while so I couldn't respond. About what does this have to do with sorcerers in general, when I see the description of a sorcerer it looks to me like the magic comes from inside of them. so this spell is pulling the magic from inside your teammates(decreasing there health in the process) and using the power to decrease the hit points of an enemy. if the enemy has large amounts of health, the magic inside of a player will not be able to destroy the being. does this make sense whatsoever?
No because you didn’t quote the post. I’m sure it would if I knew which post you meant.
This isn't actually a signature, just something I copy and paste onto the bottom of all my posts. Or is it? Yep, it is. Or is it..? I’m a hobbit, and the master cranial imploder of the "Oops, I Accidently Destroyed Someone's Brain" cult. Extended sig. I'm actually in Limbo, it says I'm in Mechanus because that's where I get my WiFi from. Please don't tell the modrons, they're still angry from the 'Spawning Stone' fiasco.
No connection to Dragonslayer8 other than knowing them in real life.
You gain the true polymorph spell. Unlike normal castings you gain legendary, lair actions that creature has and any regional effects.
Metamagic options on spells of 2nd level and below are free. Just a fun foil of the Wizard's mastered spells.
Supreme Metamagic
You gain an additional 10 sorcery points, which can be used as normal. Whenever you roll for initiative at the start of combat and have fewer than 10 sorcery points, you regain 8 sorcery points.
In addition, you choose one metamagic option that you know. When you cast sorcerer cantrips or spells that you know, you can use the chosen metamagic option without expending sorcery points. You cannot use this feature on spells of a level higher than 3rd.
Is this too overpowered?
Join the Competition of the Finest 'Brews XIX! (Or just spectate and vote, that's cool too. Either way, go there. It's awesome, and it'll be even more awesome if you join.)
Kind of.
This isn't actually a signature, just something I copy and paste onto the bottom of all my posts. Or is it? Yep, it is. Or is it..? I’m a hobbit, and the master cranial imploder of the "Oops, I Accidently Destroyed Someone's Brain" cult. Extended sig. I'm actually in Limbo, it says I'm in Mechanus because that's where I get my WiFi from. Please don't tell the modrons, they're still angry from the 'Spawning Stone' fiasco.
No connection to Dragonslayer8 other than knowing them in real life.
That's what I thought. Maybe get an additional 5 (instead of 10), and regain 10 if you have none (instead of <10)? (Keeping the second part.)
Or just replace the whole thing with this:
Immediately after you take damage, you can use your reaction and spend 6 sorcery points to become immune to that damage type (or whatever damage type dealt the most damage to you, if you took damage of more than one type) until the start of you next turn.
Join the Competition of the Finest 'Brews XIX! (Or just spectate and vote, that's cool too. Either way, go there. It's awesome, and it'll be even more awesome if you join.)
That's very over-powered, getting 5 bonus action casts per encounter.
Re: If the coin lands on its side and doesn't fall over, the speed at which you age is permanently and cumulatively doubled. I would add "or halved depending on which face of the coin you happen to be looking at at the time; or which face the sunlight or moonlight happens to be shinning on", etc; otherwise you will eventually be old forever.
I do like this idea of a version of Apotheosis being the level 20 ability best though, followed by the one where you can use sorcery points in stead of spell slots to upcast your spells.
An idea of my own is: "Living Spell" I don't this this one would qualify as a capstone, versus one of those that start at a lower level and scale; but the gist is that you pick one specific spell from a list, say unseen servant for example, and instead of ever disipating, the spell persists indefinitely taking on life of it's own/feeding on ambient magic, and becomming a companion. You can only ever have one at a time which can only be of a level you can cast or lower. -this because I like the idea of something that can serve the function of a familiar spirit whithout necessarily needing a feat or level of wizard to get.
Thank you for your time and please have a very pleasant day.
the second part is arguably the strongest already, and is also quite the redundant feature. Honestly that whole thing has a lot of redundancies, you don't need to at the same time give the player more sorcery points, increase the recovery of sorcery points and give the player an option to not need to use sorcery points at all, too much to keep track of and all of it ultimately serves the same function of conserving sorcery points.
Maybe try something a bit simpler, something with less "moving parts" so to speak, maybe something like this: "if you cast a sorcerer spell of 2nd level or higher with a casting time of 1 action on your turn, you can use a bonus action to regain a number of sorcery points equal to the spell's level - 1 (maximum of 5)". Does something similar in that it preserves your sorcery points such that you are able to more or less freely use metamagic quite frequently, but with less fuss
the second feature is kinda mediocre when considering the incredible cost associated with it, and also is not in any way connected to being a sorcerer. It's ultimately not physical hardiness that makes a sorcerer a sorcerer, it's their command of magic, just like how the wizard's capstone relates to their spellcasting and their core identity and how the barbarian's capstone relates to the physical strength associated with barbarians as well as the rage feature you have been using up to this point.
i am soup, with too many ideas (all of them very spicy) who has made sufficient homebrew material and character to last an thousand human lifetimes
I think I would be happy with just a larger gain of SP. Metamagics are powerful and fun and getting to more of them is pretty good, 4 per short rest seems pretty underwhelming for a capstone though. Maybe like 8-10 SP per SR would be good?
Honestly this combo is an excellent solution, going with subclass specific capstones incentivizes single classing sorcerer more instead dipping two levels in pally for smite,fighter for action surge or warlock for short rest slots, since there is no reason to reach 20 as oppsed to 18 for subclass capstones.
now the current capstone may be bad, but it is still orders of magnitude better than a 2-level dip into warlock if all you want from it is short rest resources. 4 sorcery points per short rest can give you either two 1st level spell slots or 1 2nd level spell slot, 2 levels of warlock is a mere 2 1st level spell slots that may or may not be convertible to half the relevant number of sorcery points depending on how your dm interprets the rules.
i am soup, with too many ideas (all of them very spicy) who has made sufficient homebrew material and character to last an thousand human lifetimes
You're not wrong but that two level warlock dip still gives more in the form of eldritch invocations(one more than eldritch adept) while providing a similar function to the class capstone.
Honestly if capstone was equal to half your sorcerer level it wouldn't feel as underwhelming.
One with the Weave
Your mastery of the magic within you has grown and you no longer consume spell slots when you cast 1st level spells at first level. Casting a 1st level spell at 4th level will still consume a 4th level spell slot As well, on a Short Rest, you can recover SP instead of HP, a maximum of 2 d8 per Short Rest to a maximum of 4 d8 between Long Rests.
I allows recovery of SP on Short Rests, adds SP to the overall pool by allowing all 1st level slots to be converted and demonstrates a deeper mastery of their innate gifts, akin to the Wizard's intimate understanding of certain spells. Allows the Sorcerer to really open up and blast using Metamagic at will and more freely, while making some possible utility spells more accessible and frequently used.
Talk to your Players. Talk to your DM. If more people used this advice, there would be 24.74% fewer threads on Tactics, Rules and DM discussions.