So, we all know that level 20 sorcerer capstone ability sucks mightily. Let us pretend for a moment that we all live in a perfect world where Sorcerous Restoration is part of Metamagic ability, you get it at level 3 and it scales with your level (so you are not wizard's poor cousin anymore). That leaves us with no capstone at level 20.
Sorcerous Might "At 20th level, you unlock the secret to amplifying your magic with the raw power of your sorcerous origin. When you cast a sorcerer spell of 1st level or higher using a spell slot, you may spend sorcery points to increase the level of that spell, rather than expending a higher-level spell slot. The cost is one sorcery point for each extra level above the slot used to cast the spell. Using this ability counts as Metamagic (you cannot add a Metamagic option to the spell unless that option says you can do so)."
Sorcerers at 20th level become the undisputed kings of upcasting; their limited spells-known pool is balanced out by being able to empower and overcharge their spells like nobody else can. A sorcerer's innate magic is supposed to grant them unparalleled magical power; they're supposed to make up for being dumber than wizards, uglier than bards, and having less friends than warlocks or clerics with power.
"You no longer require components to cast spells."
At this point they're 20th level, they should be able to do crazy things. Wish can already get rid of the need for any components on any spell of 1st through 8th level, once per day, and Subtle Spell has been doing half of this for the last 16 levels. This expands on that flavor a little bit- and gets rid of those pesky Counterspells and gp requirements.
Sorcerous Depth: Once per day, when you roll for initiative, and have less than half of your sorcery points remaining, you regain 10 sorcery points. In addition, when you use your Font of Magic ability to regain a spell slot, you can instead expend as many sorcery points as the spell slot you are regaining is.
Sorcerous Might "At 20th level, you unlock the secret to amplifying your magic with the raw power of your sorcerous origin. When you cast a sorcerer spell of 1st level or higher using a spell slot, you may spend sorcery points to increase the level of that spell, rather than expending a higher-level spell slot. The cost is one sorcery point for each extra level above the slot used to cast the spell. Using this ability counts as Metamagic (you cannot add a Metamagic option to the spell unless that option says you can do so)."
Sorcerers at 20th level become the undisputed kings of upcasting; their limited spells-known pool is balanced out by being able to empower and overcharge their spells like nobody else can. A sorcerer's innate magic is supposed to grant them unparalleled magical power; they're supposed to make up for being dumber than wizards, uglier than bards, and having less friends than warlocks or clerics with power.
Let them have some power at level 20, then.
I think this one is really cool. On the other hand a bit on the overpowered part of the spectrum. A sorcerer would be able to cast Meteor Swarm 3 times in single combat. But I like that it is a trade-off you wouldn't be able to use your meta magics after such casting. Also, it works for all kinds of sorcerers, not just blasters.
"They're supposed to make up for being dumber than wizards, uglier than bards, and having fewer friends than warlocks or clerics with power." This hurts man!
"You no longer require components to cast spells."
At this point they're 20th level, they should be able to do crazy things. Wish can already get rid of the need for any components on any spell of 1st through 8th level, once per day, and Subtle Spell has been doing half of this for the last 16 levels. This expands on that flavor a little bit- and gets rid of those pesky Counterspells and gp requirements.
This one is interesting but I think that for the 20th level capstone it is quite weak. Also, this should be the baseline. Because of the source of sorcerer's power, I believe they should not need trivial material components at all. It always seemed to me stupid that somebody with magic coming to him from his blood would need bat shit to cast a spell.
But in all seriousness, what about upgraded metamagic?
Careful Spell -> Extra careful: The chosen creatures succeed on the save and take no damage.
Quickened Spell -> Extra quick: When used, you may use your action to cast non-cantrip spells.
Twinned Spell -> Tripled spell: Target a second and third creature.
I do not know if you would be able to come up with upgrades for all metamagics. Also, I would rather have something new an something that would change how I play sorcerer not just upgrade to my existing abilities.
Sorcerous Depth: Once per day, when you roll for initiative, and have less than half of your sorcery points remaining, you regain 10 sorcery points. In addition, when you use your Font of Magic ability to regain a spell slot, you can instead expend as many sorcery points as the spell slot you are regaining is.
Not bad. Touches the how stupidly uneffective regaining spell slots with SPs is. In the ongoing 3 years campaign, I have used SP's to spell slots once. Therefore I believe it is quite late in progression to get this.
Spells you cast that roll dice always are their maximum value, and their damage cannot be resisted.
------
Since people say that sorcerers are only good for blasting, might as well make that a reality.
Interesting idea. I would probably use it as Metamagic Option for blasters. Something like: for 5 sorcery points "Spells you cast that roll dice always are their maximum value, and their damage cannot be resisted." The problem is that there are sorcerers, that play social manipulators with subtle spells or maybe even healers with Divine Soul and this would bring them nothing. Maybe having like a set of three Ultimate(tm) Metamagics for different playstyles would work.
Well, just to give you some perspective. The feature I wrote only specifies rolled dice. So it works with any spell that rolls dice, like healing magic or Sleep.
Also, with regard to my answer, this also negates the need for pricey/consumed components. I get that divine soul gets crazy with this (True Resurrection, every day, for free), and there are other expensive spells this would affect, so I don't think it's particularly underpowered.
If this allows for the Spell Versatility from UA, that is completely broken. If not, you only get to pick, like, one spell, and that by discarding one of the spells you already knew.
The sorcery points for spells is quite common, and useful, and abusable in an OP way, for sorcerer warlock multi class chars.
such so, that when chars abuse it, all of a sudden there’s not very many chances to short rest anymore...
I really wouldn't consider it abusable in OP way. If you multiclass and take 1 level of warlock you have one 1st level spell slot that you can convert into one sorcery point per short rest. If you take 3 levels of warlock you have two 1st level spell slots that you can convert into 4 sorcery points. If you take more levels in warlock you won't reach 9th level spells. By taking more levels in warlock you are delaying your sorcerer's progression. And if you finish 17 sorcerer / 3 warlock you can at 20th level convert 2 spell slots into 4 sorcery points. That seems quite weak in my book. Sorcerer/warlock multiclass is not nearly as powerful and you would think. The main upside is Eldritch Blast cantrip with Agonising Blast invocation.
Nevertheless, I truly do not understand why sorcerer's do not get sorcery points restoration by half of their level per short rest. Restoration could be limited at a maximum of 7 sorcery points (14th level and converting into 1 5th level slot). Which is (even without any reducement) still so much worse than wizard's Arcane Recovery that can at 14th level restore one 6th level spell slot and one 2nd level spell slot(or two 1st level spell slots).
At 17th level if you went pure sorcerer you have a choice:
4 sorcery points restoration + Eldritch blast + Agonizing blast + Knowledge of three 1st level spells + another invocation + another cantrip
or
4 sorcery points restoration + Ability score improvement or feat + 3 more sorcery points and one of 18th level Sorcerer's Origin features
On the other hand, you get that meager SP's restoration much earlier with multiclassing to a warlock. I do not think the sorcerer's should not be coerced to multiclass into the warlock for something so trivial as 4 sorcery points restoration or wait for it until level 20.
You have unlocked the ability to be that which gave you your power. As an action, you may turn into another creature as if by the shapechange spell. While in this form, you can still cast spells. The only creature your can turn into is based on your sorcerous origin, or your DM's choice. Once you have used this feature, you may not do so again until you have finished a long rest.
Draconic: Dragon of your ancestry of challenge rating between 15 and 20. Your choice.
Wild Magic: Random creature of challenge rating between 15 and 20. Humanoids, plants, and beasts are not available.
Divine Soul: Solar/any celestial between challenge rating 15 and 20. Your choice.
Shadow Sorcery: Undead of challenge rating between 15 and 20. Your choice.
Storm Sorcery: Elemental of challenge rating between 15 and 20. Your choice.
Probably not balanced, but lvl 20's aren't really supposed to be.
Hosted a battle between the Cult of Sedge and the Forum Countershere(Done now). I_Love_Tarrasques has won the fight, scoring a victory for the fiendish Moderators.
The sorcery points for spells is quite common, and useful, and abusable in an OP way, for sorcerer warlock multi class chars.
such so, that when chars abuse it, all of a sudden there’s not very many chances to short rest anymore...
I really wouldn't consider it abusable in OP way. If you multiclass and take 1 level of warlock you have one 1st level spell slot that you can convert into one sorcery point per short rest. If you take 3 levels of warlock you have two 1st level spell slots that you can convert into 4 sorcery points. If you take more levels in warlock you won't reach 9th level spells. By taking more levels in warlock you are delaying your sorcerer's progression. And if you finish 17 sorcerer / 3 warlock you can at 20th level convert 2 spell slots into 4 sorcery points. That seems quite weak in my book. Sorcerer/warlock multiclass is not nearly as powerful and you would think. The main upside is Eldritch Blast cantrip with Agonising Blast invocation.
Nevertheless, I truly do not understand why sorcerer's do not get sorcery points restoration by half of their level per short rest. Restoration could be limited at a maximum of 7 sorcery points (14th level and converting into 1 5th level slot). Which is (even without any reducement) still so much worse than wizard's Arcane Recovery that can at 14th level restore one 6th level spell slot and one 2nd level spell slot(or two 1st level spell slots).
At 17th level if you went pure sorcerer you have a choice:
4 sorcery points restoration + Eldritch blast + Agonizing blast + Knowledge of three 1st level spells + another invocation + another cantrip
or
4 sorcery points restoration + Ability score improvement or feat + 3 more sorcery points and one of 18th level Sorcerer's Origin features
On the other hand, you get that meager SP's restoration much earlier with multiclassing to a warlock. I do not think the sorcerer's should not be coerced to multiclass into the warlock for something so trivial as 4 sorcery points restoration or wait for it until level 20.
okay.
so your entire argument is based off of leveling all the way to 20.
but ignoring all the numerous campaigns and modules that only span a few levels?
great argument.
you quite literally proved why the capstone sucks. By showing you could do it at level 5. With 3 levels of warlock. Compared to waiting to level 20.
and then say that’s not OP and abusable.
think of a campaign like LMoP.
that level 5 char basically has the equivalent of a level 20 capstone. Do any of the other chars have their level 20 capstones in a 1-5campaign?
The sorcery points for spells is quite common, and useful, and abusable in an OP way, for sorcerer warlock multi class chars.
such so, that when chars abuse it, all of a sudden there’s not very many chances to short rest anymore...
I really wouldn't consider it abusable in OP way. If you multiclass and take 1 level of warlock you have one 1st level spell slot that you can convert into one sorcery point per short rest. If you take 3 levels of warlock you have two 1st level spell slots that you can convert into 4 sorcery points. If you take more levels in warlock you won't reach 9th level spells. By taking more levels in warlock you are delaying your sorcerer's progression. And if you finish 17 sorcerer / 3 warlock you can at 20th level convert 2 spell slots into 4 sorcery points. That seems quite weak in my book. Sorcerer/warlock multiclass is not nearly as powerful and you would think. The main upside is Eldritch Blast cantrip with Agonising Blast invocation.
Nevertheless, I truly do not understand why sorcerer's do not get sorcery points restoration by half of their level per short rest. Restoration could be limited at a maximum of 7 sorcery points (14th level and converting into 1 5th level slot). Which is (even without any reducement) still so much worse than wizard's Arcane Recovery that can at 14th level restore one 6th level spell slot and one 2nd level spell slot(or two 1st level spell slots).
At 17th level if you went pure sorcerer you have a choice:
4 sorcery points restoration + Eldritch blast + Agonizing blast + Knowledge of three 1st level spells + another invocation + another cantrip
or
4 sorcery points restoration + Ability score improvement or feat + 3 more sorcery points and one of 18th level Sorcerer's Origin features
On the other hand, you get that meager SP's restoration much earlier with multiclassing to a warlock. I do not think the sorcerer's should not be coerced to multiclass into the warlock for something so trivial as 4 sorcery points restoration or wait for it until level 20.
okay.
so your entire argument is based off of leveling all the way to 20.
but ignoring all the numerous campaigns and modules that only span a few levels?
great argument.
you quite literally proved why the capstone sucks. By showing you could do it at level 5. With 3 levels of warlock. Compared to waiting to level 20.
and then say that’s not OP and abusable.
think of a campaign like LMoP.
that level 5 char basically has the equivalent of a level 20 capstone. Do any of the other chars have their level 20 capstones in a 1-5campaign?
First of all the intention of this thread was talking about designing level 20 capstone for sorcerers. It seems to be quite logical that I based the argument over leveling to level 20.
Secondly, You completely miss the fact that restoring 4 sorcery points per short rest is nothing. It is worse than the base-level wizard's ability. And it does matter when and how you get it. And in order to get it on level 5, you are more a warlock than you are a sorcerer. And you have only 2nd level spells. In LMoP if you are 3 warlock/2 sorcerer just so you can do 4 sorcery points restoration trick than you are doing something very wrong and both 5th level sorcerer with two fireballs and 5th level warlock with 3rd level spell slots will laugh at you (while having a feat or ability improvement). So even in LMoP it is not strong and not abusable in any way.
If you can get Eldritch master or Signature Spells or Avenging Angel or basically every other 20th level class capstone at level 5 by multiclassing there would be a riot. And in case of Sorcerer's capstone, there simply isn't. It just proves how bad that capstone is.
The sorcery points for spells is quite common, and useful, and abusable in an OP way, for sorcerer warlock multi class chars.
such so, that when chars abuse it, all of a sudden there’s not very many chances to short rest anymore...
I really wouldn't consider it abusable in OP way. If you multiclass and take 1 level of warlock you have one 1st level spell slot that you can convert into one sorcery point per short rest. If you take 3 levels of warlock you have two 1st level spell slots that you can convert into 4 sorcery points. If you take more levels in warlock you won't reach 9th level spells. By taking more levels in warlock you are delaying your sorcerer's progression. And if you finish 17 sorcerer / 3 warlock you can at 20th level convert 2 spell slots into 4 sorcery points. That seems quite weak in my book. Sorcerer/warlock multiclass is not nearly as powerful and you would think. The main upside is Eldritch Blast cantrip with Agonising Blast invocation.
Nevertheless, I truly do not understand why sorcerer's do not get sorcery points restoration by half of their level per short rest. Restoration could be limited at a maximum of 7 sorcery points (14th level and converting into 1 5th level slot). Which is (even without any reducement) still so much worse than wizard's Arcane Recovery that can at 14th level restore one 6th level spell slot and one 2nd level spell slot(or two 1st level spell slots).
At 17th level if you went pure sorcerer you have a choice:
4 sorcery points restoration + Eldritch blast + Agonizing blast + Knowledge of three 1st level spells + another invocation + another cantrip
or
4 sorcery points restoration + Ability score improvement or feat + 3 more sorcery points and one of 18th level Sorcerer's Origin features
On the other hand, you get that meager SP's restoration much earlier with multiclassing to a warlock. I do not think the sorcerer's should not be coerced to multiclass into the warlock for something so trivial as 4 sorcery points restoration or wait for it until level 20.
okay.
so your entire argument is based off of leveling all the way to 20.
but ignoring all the numerous campaigns and modules that only span a few levels?
great argument.
you quite literally proved why the capstone sucks. By showing you could do it at level 5. With 3 levels of warlock. Compared to waiting to level 20.
and then say that’s not OP and abusable.
think of a campaign like LMoP.
that level 5 char basically has the equivalent of a level 20 capstone. Do any of the other chars have their level 20 capstones in a 1-5campaign?
First of all the intention of this thread was talking about designing level 20 capstone for sorcerers. It seems to be quite logical that I based the argument over leveling to level 20.
Secondly, You completely miss the fact that restoring 4 sorcery points per short rest is nothing. It is worse than the base-level wizard's ability. And it does matter when and how you get it. And in order to get it on level 5, you are more a warlock than you are a sorcerer. And you have only 2nd level spells. In LMoP if you are 3 warlock/2 sorcerer just so you can do 4 sorcery points restoration trick than you are doing something very wrong and both 5th level sorcerer with two fireballs and 5th level warlock with 3rd level spell slots will laugh at you (while having a feat or ability improvement). So even in LMoP it is not strong and not abusable in any way.
If you can get Eldritch master or Signature Spells or Avenging Angel or basically every other 20th level class capstone at level 5 by multiclassing there would be a riot. And in case of Sorcerer's capstone, there simply isn't. It just proves how bad that capstone is.
“If you can get Eldritch master or Signature Spells or Avenging Angel or basically every other 20th level class capstone at level 5 by multiclassing there would be a riot. And in case of Sorcerer's capstone, there simply isn't. It just proves how bad that capstone is.”
again.
exactly the point.
so... take a second. Walk away from your soapbox. Go back to the OP and such. And you’ll see how the meta magic of restoring sorcery points was being diminished as well as stating the capstone sucks. I used the Sorlock example as saying it’s not that diminished, because you can essentially do the sorcerer capstone of level 20.
you’re hung up Bahamut knows what. The example/analogy I used to describe how bad a capstone is? that I am not specifically spelling out the sorcerer capstone is crap. Because you can achieve it at level 5?
or is it because I didn’t give a capstone suggestion myself?
”insert fancy name here”:
for 1 minute you become an avatar of magic and are immune to all magic and all of your spells are (quickened/twinned). You can do this once per long rest.
basically a sorcerer magic version of paladin capstones. There. Suggestion made.
I think it would be worth changing the current level 20 ability to one that allowed Sorcerers to create spell slots for level 6 and level 7 spells. The cost to do so would be high, perhaps 9 S.P. for Sixth level and 10 S.P. for Seventh level. This would probably to translate to two or three additional castings per long rest of spells like Delayed Blast Fireball, Wall of Force, and Mass Suggestion. Name it something fancy, like Alacritous Catabolism.
My view is that if Wizards get much better spell versatility and free castings of particular 1st and 2nd level spells, why can't the Sorcerer get the option to expend their resources to break the Level 5 Magic limit sometimes? It should be expensive to do so (thus the high S.P. expenditure), but it should be an option for an epic level primary caster whose very being is infused with magic.
It could be something like choose a number of sorcerer spells and they you always cast them with a metamagic attached at no cost of Sorcery Points. It could also be a subtle way to add spells known to the sorcerer as it may not require them to know the spells beforehand.
It could be something like choose a number of sorcerer spells and they you always cast them with a metamagic attached at no cost of Sorcery Points. It could also be a subtle way to add spells known to the sorcerer as it may not require them to know the spells beforehand.
That is a nice idea. Choose one metamagic option and you always cast it without expending Sorcery points. I like that a lot.
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So, we all know that level 20 sorcerer capstone ability sucks mightily. Let us pretend for a moment that we all live in a perfect world where Sorcerous Restoration is part of Metamagic ability, you get it at level 3 and it scales with your level (so you are not wizard's poor cousin anymore). That leaves us with no capstone at level 20.
Design one!
Sorcerous Might
"At 20th level, you unlock the secret to amplifying your magic with the raw power of your sorcerous origin. When you cast a sorcerer spell of 1st level or higher using a spell slot, you may spend sorcery points to increase the level of that spell, rather than expending a higher-level spell slot. The cost is one sorcery point for each extra level above the slot used to cast the spell. Using this ability counts as Metamagic (you cannot add a Metamagic option to the spell unless that option says you can do so)."
Sorcerers at 20th level become the undisputed kings of upcasting; their limited spells-known pool is balanced out by being able to empower and overcharge their spells like nobody else can. A sorcerer's innate magic is supposed to grant them unparalleled magical power; they're supposed to make up for being dumber than wizards, uglier than bards, and having less friends than warlocks or clerics with power.
Let them have some power at level 20, then.
Please do not contact or message me.
Sorcerous Attunement.
"You no longer require components to cast spells."
At this point they're 20th level, they should be able to do crazy things. Wish can already get rid of the need for any components on any spell of 1st through 8th level, once per day, and Subtle Spell has been doing half of this for the last 16 levels. This expands on that flavor a little bit- and gets rid of those pesky Counterspells and gp requirements.
Partway through the quest for absolute truth.
Action Surge.
But in all seriousness, what about upgraded metamagic?
Sorcerous Depth: Once per day, when you roll for initiative, and have less than half of your sorcery points remaining, you regain 10 sorcery points. In addition, when you use your Font of Magic ability to regain a spell slot, you can instead expend as many sorcery points as the spell slot you are regaining is.
Overflowing Might:
Spells you cast that roll dice always are their maximum value, and their damage cannot be resisted.
------
Since people say that sorcerers are only good for blasting, might as well make that a reality.
I think this one is really cool. On the other hand a bit on the overpowered part of the spectrum. A sorcerer would be able to cast Meteor Swarm 3 times in single combat. But I like that it is a trade-off you wouldn't be able to use your meta magics after such casting. Also, it works for all kinds of sorcerers, not just blasters.
"They're supposed to make up for being dumber than wizards, uglier than bards, and having fewer friends than warlocks or clerics with power." This hurts man!
This one is interesting but I think that for the 20th level capstone it is quite weak. Also, this should be the baseline. Because of the source of sorcerer's power, I believe they should not need trivial material components at all. It always seemed to me stupid that somebody with magic coming to him from his blood would need bat shit to cast a spell.
I do not know if you would be able to come up with upgrades for all metamagics. Also, I would rather have something new an something that would change how I play sorcerer not just upgrade to my existing abilities.
Not bad. Touches the how stupidly uneffective regaining spell slots with SPs is. In the ongoing 3 years campaign, I have used SP's to spell slots once. Therefore I believe it is quite late in progression to get this.
Interesting idea. I would probably use it as Metamagic Option for blasters. Something like: for 5 sorcery points "Spells you cast that roll dice always are their maximum value, and their damage cannot be resisted." The problem is that there are sorcerers, that play social manipulators with subtle spells or maybe even healers with Divine Soul and this would bring them nothing. Maybe having like a set of three Ultimate(tm) Metamagics for different playstyles would work.
All in all great additions!
Well, just to give you some perspective. The feature I wrote only specifies rolled dice. So it works with any spell that rolls dice, like healing magic or Sleep.
Also, with regard to my answer, this also negates the need for pricey/consumed components. I get that divine soul gets crazy with this (True Resurrection, every day, for free), and there are other expensive spells this would affect, so I don't think it's particularly underpowered.
Partway through the quest for absolute truth.
Expanded Horizons:
At 20th level, the sorcerer may select spells from any single spell list of their choice (cleric, wizard, etc.).
I just don't know if this is underpowered.
If this allows for the Spell Versatility from UA, that is completely broken. If not, you only get to pick, like, one spell, and that by discarding one of the spells you already knew.
The sorcery points for spells is quite common, and useful, and abusable in an OP way, for sorcerer warlock multi class chars.
such so, that when chars abuse it, all of a sudden there’s not very many chances to short rest anymore...
Blank
I really wouldn't consider it abusable in OP way. If you multiclass and take 1 level of warlock you have one 1st level spell slot that you can convert into one sorcery point per short rest. If you take 3 levels of warlock you have two 1st level spell slots that you can convert into 4 sorcery points. If you take more levels in warlock you won't reach 9th level spells. By taking more levels in warlock you are delaying your sorcerer's progression. And if you finish 17 sorcerer / 3 warlock you can at 20th level convert 2 spell slots into 4 sorcery points. That seems quite weak in my book. Sorcerer/warlock multiclass is not nearly as powerful and you would think. The main upside is Eldritch Blast cantrip with Agonising Blast invocation.
Nevertheless, I truly do not understand why sorcerer's do not get sorcery points restoration by half of their level per short rest. Restoration could be limited at a maximum of 7 sorcery points (14th level and converting into 1 5th level slot). Which is (even without any reducement) still so much worse than wizard's Arcane Recovery that can at 14th level restore one 6th level spell slot and one 2nd level spell slot(or two 1st level spell slots).
At 17th level if you went pure sorcerer you have a choice:
4 sorcery points restoration + Eldritch blast + Agonizing blast + Knowledge of three 1st level spells + another invocation + another cantrip
or
4 sorcery points restoration + Ability score improvement or feat + 3 more sorcery points and one of 18th level Sorcerer's Origin features
On the other hand, you get that meager SP's restoration much earlier with multiclassing to a warlock. I do not think the sorcerer's should not be coerced to multiclass into the warlock for something so trivial as 4 sorcery points restoration or wait for it until level 20.
To be honest, I would say something like:
Form of Ultimate Magic
You have unlocked the ability to be that which gave you your power. As an action, you may turn into another creature as if by the shapechange spell. While in this form, you can still cast spells. The only creature your can turn into is based on your sorcerous origin, or your DM's choice. Once you have used this feature, you may not do so again until you have finished a long rest.
Draconic: Dragon of your ancestry of challenge rating between 15 and 20. Your choice.
Wild Magic: Random creature of challenge rating between 15 and 20. Humanoids, plants, and beasts are not available.
Divine Soul: Solar/any celestial between challenge rating 15 and 20. Your choice.
Shadow Sorcery: Undead of challenge rating between 15 and 20. Your choice.
Storm Sorcery: Elemental of challenge rating between 15 and 20. Your choice.
Probably not balanced, but lvl 20's aren't really supposed to be.
Subclass Evaluations So Far:
Sorcerer
Warlock
My statblock. Fear me!
Hosted a battle between the Cult of Sedge and the Forum Counters here(Done now). I_Love_Tarrasques has won the fight, scoring a victory for the fiendish Moderators.
okay.
so your entire argument is based off of leveling all the way to 20.
but ignoring all the numerous campaigns and modules that only span a few levels?
great argument.
you quite literally proved why the capstone sucks. By showing you could do it at level 5. With 3 levels of warlock. Compared to waiting to level 20.
and then say that’s not OP and abusable.
think of a campaign like LMoP.
that level 5 char basically has the equivalent of a level 20 capstone. Do any of the other chars have their level 20 capstones in a 1-5campaign?
Blank
First of all the intention of this thread was talking about designing level 20 capstone for sorcerers. It seems to be quite logical that I based the argument over leveling to level 20.
Secondly, You completely miss the fact that restoring 4 sorcery points per short rest is nothing. It is worse than the base-level wizard's ability. And it does matter when and how you get it. And in order to get it on level 5, you are more a warlock than you are a sorcerer. And you have only 2nd level spells. In LMoP if you are 3 warlock/2 sorcerer just so you can do 4 sorcery points restoration trick than you are doing something very wrong and both 5th level sorcerer with two fireballs and 5th level warlock with 3rd level spell slots will laugh at you (while having a feat or ability improvement). So even in LMoP it is not strong and not abusable in any way.
If you can get Eldritch master or Signature Spells or Avenging Angel or basically every other 20th level class capstone at level 5 by multiclassing there would be a riot. And in case of Sorcerer's capstone, there simply isn't. It just proves how bad that capstone is.
“If you can get Eldritch master or Signature Spells or Avenging Angel or basically every other 20th level class capstone at level 5 by multiclassing there would be a riot. And in case of Sorcerer's capstone, there simply isn't. It just proves how bad that capstone is.”
again.
exactly the point.
so... take a second. Walk away from your soapbox. Go back to the OP and such. And you’ll see how the meta magic of restoring sorcery points was being diminished as well as stating the capstone sucks. I used the Sorlock example as saying it’s not that diminished, because you can essentially do the sorcerer capstone of level 20.
you’re hung up Bahamut knows what. The example/analogy I used to describe how bad a capstone is? that I am not specifically spelling out the sorcerer capstone is crap. Because you can achieve it at level 5?
or is it because I didn’t give a capstone suggestion myself?
”insert fancy name here”:
for 1 minute you become an avatar of magic and are immune to all magic and all of your spells are (quickened/twinned). You can do this once per long rest.
basically a sorcerer magic version of paladin capstones. There. Suggestion made.
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I think it would be worth changing the current level 20 ability to one that allowed Sorcerers to create spell slots for level 6 and level 7 spells. The cost to do so would be high, perhaps 9 S.P. for Sixth level and 10 S.P. for Seventh level. This would probably to translate to two or three additional castings per long rest of spells like Delayed Blast Fireball, Wall of Force, and Mass Suggestion. Name it something fancy, like Alacritous Catabolism.
My view is that if Wizards get much better spell versatility and free castings of particular 1st and 2nd level spells, why can't the Sorcerer get the option to expend their resources to break the Level 5 Magic limit sometimes? It should be expensive to do so (thus the high S.P. expenditure), but it should be an option for an epic level primary caster whose very being is infused with magic.
It could be something like choose a number of sorcerer spells and they you always cast them with a metamagic attached at no cost of Sorcery Points. It could also be a subtle way to add spells known to the sorcerer as it may not require them to know the spells beforehand.
That is a nice idea. Choose one metamagic option and you always cast it without expending Sorcery points. I like that a lot.