Hey there! I have a few things I want to ask opinions on from you lovely people.
Just a quick background, I put together a build that I really want to play (actually am level 2 to start next session), Lightfoot Halfling Celestial Warlock3/Divine Soul Sorc17. I just love the idea of metamagic and flexible casting as a healer. Was all pumped (still am), until I played last night for the first game. I LOVE my character, and the concept. That said, I made that build to get 9th level spells. I had wanted to also do 3 levels of swashbuckler (or 7, depending), but that 9th level spell slot kept calling to me. This is the thing, in all my years playing DnD (since 3rd ed), I have never had a character get over level 14, and most of them only hit level 10 before the party breaks up for some reason. So I always make builds that are bottom heavy with three multiclasses, thinking that the game wont make it past level 10-14 again....
This game feels different. It's only been one session, but I think it will last this time....i hope. Ugh, just tell me, is it worth it to hold out on the chance that we may hit the 15-20 level range, and that I *could* maybe finally get that elusive 9th level spell? Or should I lean towards branching out slightly, sacrificing my ability to cast 8th and 9th level spells (perhaps even 7th level), to have a bit more diverse build that is fun in the 1-10 level range of the campaign?
The build I have plotted out is going to be a fun healer/blaster. It would be awesome to have a ton of sorc points to play around with, twin cast cure wounds, etc. However, please give me your opinions also on two build variants I started thinking about once I got a taste of dnd gameplay last night.
Locked-in Details: "Minka Markov", Level 2 Albino Halfling Celesial Warlock/ Urchin background. Str 11/Dex 16/Con 14/Int 12/Wis 7/Cha 18. Warlock3/Sorc3 to start. After level 6 I could MC. Or I could maybe MC for level 6, as long as I go back for Metamagic at level 7. But the initial plan is to get Metamagic and Pact Boon ASAP.
One note to consider, I have an umbrella (to protect from prolonged sun exposure) that the DM has ruled could have Shillelagh cast on. Second note, chances are slim that my Umbrella will have the finesse property, thus no sneak attack with the umbrella... were I to MC Rogue. That said, Ima work on the DM to get one with finesse. No harm in trying right? ;)
Current Build Concept: Celestial Warlock 3/Divine Soul Sorc 17: Ive touched on this already, but would be Tomelock/book of shadows. Shillelagh + Green-Flame Blade. Eldritch Blast + Cha + Metamagic. Cure Wounds + Metamagic. Healing Light pool only 4d6. Flexible Casting and 17 Sorcery points. 9th level spells. Also...wings.
With Rogue MC: Celestial Warlock 3-X/Swashbuckler Rogue 3,4,5 or 7/Divine Soul Sorc X: This would be a combat healer/blaster with the bonus benefit of a little sneak attack damage. Being a Swashbuckler would.....3 level dip: Cunning Action, Fancy Footwork, Rakish Audacity. 5th level dip adds Uncanny Dodge, and 7th level dip adds Evasion. That's a LOT of cool abilities to give a mobile, damage reducing, always-go-first feel to a character. I wanted to do this originally before I cut rogue out to focus on caster levels. Seven levels of Rogue gives me 4d6 sneak attack too, which while it doesnt work with spells, does work with Green-Flame Blade (see above note: maybe Dm let's me have a finesse umbrella LOL). This build would mean I would have less caster levels though :( . With W3/R3/S14, Id have 7th level spells. W3/R5/S12 gives me 6th level spells, and W3/R7/S10 is only 5th level spells. (With these 3 builds I could do Warlock 4 to get an ABI if I wanted). Accepting I will have less spell levels also means I could take more CelestiaLock levels if the build felt right too... A lot to consider here.
{EDIT new thought} 50:50 Split: I started looking at a 10/10 split between the HealsSorc and HealLock last night as i feel asleep. Maybe for ABI purposes it should be 12/8. But 10/10 gives me 10 sorc points, a third Metamagic talent, 5th level spells in both classes (if I think of this more as using sorc points and saccing spell slots for sorc points to heal a ton, with real sorc spells as back up, then 5th level spells feels ok-ish), five invocations known, 11d6 Healing Light pool, and my 10th level Patron Feature, Celestial Resistance. Doesnt do either warlock or sorc as fully intended, but instead becomes a Flexible Casting Healer/Blaster that views spell slots as expendable sorc points to fuel things.
{edit: moving away from this...} With Bard MC: Celesial Warlock 3-X/?Bard 1-3?/Divine Soul Sorc X: AHHHHHH! Too many things! My brain is pulled in so many directions... Talk to me about Bard MC guys, please! The rogue ideas above are way more solid for me. I have never played a bard before. It would fit my character though, even just a splash. I really just like the idea of giving inspiration to my companions. So when I think about it, kinda weak to lose 9th level spells just to have a flavor detail you like eh? But have any of you played this combo? Pros and cons?
As Ive said, I am really in love with my W3/S17 build concept. I think it could be pretty powerful, and a lot of fun. I also love the idea of the Swashbuckler Sorclock, despite losing caster levels. The bard idea.... they cant all be zingers eh? Please convince me to stay as my original concept, or branch out and add rogue to it. Yell at me, cajole me, sooth me. I really just want all the opinions and information I can mull over.
I'm playing a Celestial Warlock right now and I'm planning on staying a Warlock without multi classing. Foresight at 9th level gives you advantage on every single roll and your opponents have disadvantage on every single roll against you. It's pretty much impossible to beat that and I'm SO looking forward to it!!!
I'm playing a Celestial Warlock right now and I'm planning on staying a Warlock without multi classing. Foresight at 9th level gives you advantage on every single roll and your opponents have disadvantage on every single roll against you. It's pretty much impossible to beat that and I'm SO looking forward to it!!!
Wow! That is a sweeeeet spell! Very compelling argument right there...
"One note to consider, I have an umbrella (to protect from prolonged sun exposure) that the DM has ruled could have Shillelagh cast on. Second note, chances are slim that my Umbrella will have the finesse property, thus no sneak attack with the umbrella... were I to MC Rogue. That said, Ima work on the DM to get one with finesse. No harm in trying right? ;)"
A shillelagh is a club. Clubs generally work by clubbing people with them, the harder the better. They get the bludgeoning attribute. They are not subtle. They rely heavily on momentum. And Strength. For clubbing. For smashing, crushing, pulping and clubbing some more.
If you gave an infinite number of monkeys an infinite number of typewriters and clubs, you would soon have an infinite number of monkeys with an infinite number of broken typewriters bashing each other over the head with their clubs. Thankfully, you'd get no Shakespeare.
Arguing for the finesse attribute on a club would be akin to asking for a rapier to have the bludgeoning attribute. I have been hit VERY hard with "slashing" attacks from fencing weapons - they might leave a welt through an ordinary fencing jacket, but if I was wearing my motorcycle jacket I would barely notice it. You could punch someone in the face with a rapier hilt, but around my table you would lose the finesse aspect of the weapon while you did so. A punch to the face is rarely subtle.
Now if you wanted to homebrew a spell similar to Shillelagh, where the weapon has finesse, so that you could go Mary Poppins on someone's ass, that would be the sugar to help the healing potion go down....
Clubs - putting the pulp into fiction since Raquel first donned a fur bikini.
I wrote my character's back story and his back story includes his patron. The only thing that I haven't done yet is name his patron. I really need to do that since he's 6th level and I started him at 1st level.....
A shillelagh is a club. Clubs generally work by clubbing people with them, the harder the better. They get the bludgeoning attribute. They are not subtle. They rely heavily on momentum. And Strength. For clubbing. For smashing, crushing, pulping and clubbing some more.
We're deep into HomeBrew conversation at this point. When I look at the weapons table I see those weapons which were designed with game mechanics philosophy and those that were not.
If you take a look Longsword/Battleaxe/Warhammer are the exact same weapon except slashing and bludgeoning are swapped out. They are Martial, 1d8 damage, and Versatile. They are identical and so player's flavor which they prefer. Rapier isMartial, 1d8, but Finesse instead of Versatile. This irks me because there are no options for flavor. Scimitar/Shortsword are Martial, 1d6, Light Finesse. Here we can see the Light property is worth losing a damage die from the Rapier. It's flavor if you cut or stab. Whip is Martial, 1d4, Finesse, Reach. Here we can see the Reach property is worth losing 2 damage dice from the Rapier. Flail/Morningstar/Warpick are Martial, 1d8 but no special mod, they are out and out inferior to the above weapons with zero mechanical reason to take them. Trident is a Spear but requires Martial, that's it. It's even more inferior to everything else because it's a SIMPLE weapon that require Martial. The Net is probably the worst weapon in the game. Without a Feat it's *always* used at DisAdvantage.
This just baffles me as terrible game design. What reason would you have to not make every weapon on each chart a viable choice. A false choice isn't one, every weapon should be an equal choice otherwise you're just wasting space in the book. In my mind there was no reason to waste space in the book with substandard weapons, when "what about X?" could have been solved with "It looks like X, it plays like Y in the book." Ultimately I like to go with "Monk Weapons" as my guide. We don't and didn't need a book filled with hundreds of useless and identical weapons (3rd edition!). A Katana or Dao = Longsword, a Macuahuitl = Battleaxe, etc... etc... If you want a blunt, martial, finesse weapon... Google "manriki" or something similar. Rule of Cool.
If you want a "Finesse" weapon that's Martial, does 1d8. Just make one up, personally I think a Flail should have that property. YES the medieval purists out there will argue with me. Yes these weapons are probably dumb and were probably not actually used in combat, and probably were created in later periods, but it's a fantasy game where Dragonborn can wildshape into a bunny rabbit and still breath fire because "it's not biological but mystical". The reason these still exist is these stupid and goofy weapons capture our imagination. As for a weapon you can both use Shillelagh and be Finesse to get rogue's sneak attack?
I talked to the dm, and he said down the line I could get a better umbrella, but early levels it is just an umbrella, but one with a nice oak handle/shaft. In any case, it will be level 3 before I get Shillelagh, and *if* i go rogue it wont be til level 7, so plenty of time to figure out the umbrella details.
I talked to the dm, and he said down the line I could get a better umbrella, but early levels it is just an umbrella, but one with a nice oak handle/shaft. In any case, it will be level 3 before I get Shillelagh, and *if* i go rogue it wont be til level 7, so plenty of time to figure out the umbrella details.
Just save it for a rainy day....
Yeah, I know, you use it as a parasol! I'm just waiting to see all the drow start carrying them....please don't. Unless you are John Steed, they just aren't cool. And maybe not even then!
Mr. Bunny - I get where you are coming from, but not all weapons were/are created equal. Neither were many of them created with adventurers in mind.
I would support ALL weapons doing 1d8 damage + 1 attribute, or 1D10 plain, or 1D6 with 2 attributes. People could then choose weapons based on flavour with a tiny hint of versatility.
It's not realistic, but you already covered that...
Now, I'm off to check my Traveller (Edition 1) weapons charts for attacks against foil covered chainmail in a light fog.....
I talked to the dm, and he said down the line I could get a better umbrella, but early levels it is just an umbrella, but one with a nice oak handle/shaft. In any case, it will be level 3 before I get Shillelagh, and *if* i go rogue it wont be til level 7, so plenty of time to figure out the umbrella details.
Just save it for a rainy day....
Yeah, I know, you use it as a parasol! I'm just waiting to see all the drow start carrying them....please don't. Unless you are John Steed, they just aren't cool. And maybe not even then!
So...Im sorry, you are telling me not to cast Shillelagh on my umbrella, because it will somehow make drow want to carry umbrellas? And then you are telling me that on top of that, it isnt a cool idea at all.
I know i asked for opinions, but they were opinions on the MC builds, and if 9th level spells are "worth it". I didnt want to get picked apart or shat on for a minor flavor thing that I love.
Thanks i guess.
I am really curious how me having an umbrella is going to affect all the other dnd games in the world, ruining them by having umbrella carrying drow invade everywhere
"So...Im sorry, you are telling me not to cast Shillelagh on my umbrella, because it will somehow make drow want to carry umbrellas? And then you are telling me that on top of that, it isnt a cool idea at all. "
No, I was making a terrible joke! But I did have to go back and check your character wasn't a drow attempting to pull one over the DM. "I'm not in sunlight - I am shaded by an umbrella!" As to what is "cool" - we all have our own internal thermometers for that. In my defence, apart from 60's spy (?) John Steed, the only other "famous" brolly users are Mary Poppins and Batman-Villain Penguin; that is why I suggested they might not be cool.
"I am really curious how me having an umbrella is going to affect all the other dnd games in the world, ruining them by having umbrella carrying drow invade everywhere" - Tell the truth, if you started that invasion, you'd be just a little bit proud? :) Perhaps "Umbrella" is a metaphor for cloud of volcanic ash that blocks out the sun, allowing those fiends unfettered access to the surface world?
If you love your umbrella - great! Don't let one opinion from a random internet user put you off! FWIW, I love umbrellas, big hats, tents and trees and anything else that lets me enjoy being out in the rain without getting too wet. And due to light sensitive eyes, I love anything that keeps that blasted sun out of them.
I stand by my comments on the Shillelagh though, clubs and finesse don't mix.
"Are 9th level spells worth it?" The most important spells in the game are level 1 - you will cast them from day one, and probably every day after that. With the ability to cast them using higher level slots, they get even better. 9th level spells are like that yacht you are saving all your pennies for so that you can sail the Caribbean when you finally buy it aged 72.
"So...Im sorry, you are telling me not to cast Shillelagh on my umbrella, because it will somehow make drow want to carry umbrellas? And then you are telling me that on top of that, it isnt a cool idea at all. "
No, I was making a terrible joke! But I did have to go back and check your character wasn't a drow attempting to pull one over the DM. "I'm not in sunlight - I am shaded by an umbrella!" As to what is "cool" - we all have our own internal thermometers for that. In my defence, apart from 60's spy (?) John Steed, the only other "famous" brolly users are Mary Poppins and Batman-Villain Penguin; that is why I suggested they might not be cool.
"I am really curious how me having an umbrella is going to affect all the other dnd games in the world, ruining them by having umbrella carrying drow invade everywhere" - Tell the truth, if you started that invasion, you'd be just a little bit proud? :) Perhaps "Umbrella" is a metaphor for cloud of volcanic ash that blocks out the sun, allowing those fiends unfettered access to the surface world?
If you love your umbrella - great! Don't let one opinion from a random internet user put you off! FWIW, I love umbrellas, big hats, tents and trees and anything else that lets me enjoy being out in the rain without getting too wet. And due to light sensitive eyes, I love anything that keeps that blasted sun out of them.
I stand by my comments on the Shillelagh though, clubs and finesse don't mix.
"Are 9th level spells worth it?" The most important spells in the game are level 1 - you will cast them from day one, and probably every day after that. With the ability to cast them using higher level slots, they get even better. 9th level spells are like that yacht you are saving all your pennies for so that you can sail the Caribbean when you finally buy it aged 72.
Sorry to get defensive there, i really do appreciate all the feedback. I was on a work break when i reaponded, and was rushing to get back inside lol.
This character is so different from any ive played. Im usually a human-elf-samurai-rogue-ranger-ninja type, so this "cute" tiny witch-like character is a big change, mechanically, and role play wise.
The umbrella, its is whatever really. After thinking about the rest of the group, i may have to maximise my healing. So last night as i bleary-eyed myself knto bed i was thinking about a celestiaLock/divine soul, 10/10 level split. Would have 11d6 healing light pool, and also like 10-11 sorc points. 5th level spells, 5 invocations, some decent special abilities too. Idk...but thanks, seriously for your input
I think that the umbrella idea is awesome!! It's creative, silly, and all around great!
Just imagine a 33 inch halfling, that starts beating heads with a d8+4 magic umbrella lol! The DM says that the handle of it would be the "club" part..
Have you ever seen a bamboo kendo sword? The way the bamboo slats are bound together, that is the way i imagined building a combat thwapperbrella lol.
@tombs, what do you think about a custom umbrella later with a longer handle, and having the Versatile atribute? Thatd be cool too ;)
A shillelagh is a club. Clubs generally work by clubbing people with them, the harder the better. They get the bludgeoning attribute. They are not subtle. They rely heavily on momentum. And Strength. For clubbing. For smashing, crushing, pulping and clubbing some more.
We're deep into HomeBrew conversation at this point. When I look at the weapons table I see those weapons which were designed with game mechanics philosophy and those that were not.
If you take a look Longsword/Battleaxe/Warhammer are the exact same weapon except slashing and bludgeoning are swapped out. They are Martial, 1d8 damage, and Versatile. They are identical and so player's flavor which they prefer. Rapier isMartial, 1d8, but Finesse instead of Versatile. This irks me because there are no options for flavor. Scimitar/Shortsword are Martial, 1d6, Light Finesse. Here we can see the Light property is worth losing a damage die from the Rapier. It's flavor if you cut or stab. Whip is Martial, 1d4, Finesse, Reach. Here we can see the Reach property is worth losing 2 damage dice from the Rapier. Flail/Morningstar/Warpick are Martial, 1d8 but no special mod, they are out and out inferior to the above weapons with zero mechanical reason to take them. Trident is a Spear but requires Martial, that's it. It's even more inferior to everything else because it's a SIMPLE weapon that require Martial. The Net is probably the worst weapon in the game. Without a Feat it's *always* used at DisAdvantage.
This just baffles me as terrible game design. What reason would you have to not make every weapon on each chart a viable choice. A false choice isn't one, every weapon should be an equal choice otherwise you're just wasting space in the book. In my mind there was no reason to waste space in the book with substandard weapons, when "what about X?" could have been solved with "It looks like X, it plays like Y in the book." Ultimately I like to go with "Monk Weapons" as my guide. We don't and didn't need a book filled with hundreds of useless and identical weapons (3rd edition!). A Katana or Dao = Longsword, a Macuahuitl = Battleaxe, etc... etc... If you want a blunt, martial, finesse weapon... Google "manriki" or something similar. Rule of Cool.
If you want a "Finesse" weapon that's Martial, does 1d8. Just make one up, personally I think a Flail should have that property. YES the medieval purists out there will argue with me. Yes these weapons are probably dumb and were probably not actually used in combat, and probably were created in later periods, but it's a fantasy game where Dragonborn can wildshape into a bunny rabbit and still breath fire because "it's not biological but mystical". The reason these still exist is these stupid and goofy weapons capture our imagination. As for a weapon you can both use Shillelagh and be Finesse to get rogue's sneak attack?
I get many of your weapon complaints! As for sneak attack it has to be finnesse or ranged
No, I was making a terrible joke! But I did have to go back and check your character wasn't a drow attempting to pull one over the DM. "I'm not in sunlight - I am shaded by an umbrella!" As to what is "cool" - we all have our own internal thermometers for that. In my defence, apart from 60's spy (?) John Steed, the only other "famous" brolly users are Mary Poppins and Batman-Villain Penguin; that is why I suggested they might not be cool.
I believe tonight you need to rent Kingsman: The Secret Service and watch Colin Firth beat people up with an umbrella, so you can update that comment!
The big question with Homebrewing Shillelagh'd club is "does it break the game"? Probably not. "Does it fall withing Rule as Intended over Written?" Probably not. It's so far down the wacky tree and I'd understand a DM saying "no" to it, but it's silly enough I understand a DM saying "yes" to it.
As context I created a character in 3rd edition that was the reason it's now specified as "finesse only". My 2nd favorite character in 3rd edition was 1st lvl Half-Orc, Barbarian, 2nd level+ was Rogue. 1st lvl Dodge, 3rd lvl Mobility, 6th lvl Spring Attack. I was running into combat, Tumbling out for no AoO and Sneak Attacking with a Great Sword. When I was asked how I can Sneak Attack with a greatsword I would quote the rule "If a rogue can catch an opponent when he is unable to defend himself effectively from her attack, she can strike a vital spot for extra damage" and ask "Please explain how I miss vital spots with a greatsword?". When the new edition game out and this was no longer a viable build, I got calls from 3 different people about how people like me were the reason for that change.
So 9th level spells - worth it? If you do a 3/17 build I would suggest they are not worth it. You won't get that 9th level spell slot until 20th level. If you play that long. Even with a "good feeling" about it - that's still a big if. And if you do get to 20th level, how much time will you spend there? On top of that, your healing ability is less and less useful every time you level up, with Warlock stuck at 3.
If you really want to enjoy 9th level spells go single class - Sorcerer or Warlock and start using them at level 17. Unless your DM does XP using a variant method, you will spend a LOT LOT longer (probably 6-8 times as long) at levels 17, 18, 19, and 20 combined than you will at just level 20.
Your other possible builds look like a lot of mid level fun. Be sure to think about how you will manage bonus actions - you will likely have more good options than you can use. And you will sufferer from lack of ASI's/feats if you triple class.
Umbrella as a club is cool; that's not asking much of the DM at all. Shillelagh on it is super legit once the DM has declared it a club. As a DM I would not give you finesse with it though. All finesse weapons are piercing. (Thanks to Matthias_von_Schwarzwald for pointing out whip and scimitar, both slashing finesse weapons, I was only thinking of simple weapons, not martial) I think that's been done for several balance reasons, one of which I would bet is so you can't use sneak attack damage in conjunction with Shillelagh. But hey, as a player, I'll take what I can get from my DM, even if somewhat cheesy, so, if you aren't embarrassed to ask for that much special treatment, I'd go for it. :)
Hey there! I have a few things I want to ask opinions on from you lovely people.
Just a quick background, I put together a build that I really want to play (actually am level 2 to start next session), Lightfoot Halfling Celestial Warlock3/Divine Soul Sorc17. I just love the idea of metamagic and flexible casting as a healer. Was all pumped (still am), until I played last night for the first game. I LOVE my character, and the concept. That said, I made that build to get 9th level spells. I had wanted to also do 3 levels of swashbuckler (or 7, depending), but that 9th level spell slot kept calling to me. This is the thing, in all my years playing DnD (since 3rd ed), I have never had a character get over level 14, and most of them only hit level 10 before the party breaks up for some reason. So I always make builds that are bottom heavy with three multiclasses, thinking that the game wont make it past level 10-14 again....
This game feels different. It's only been one session, but I think it will last this time....i hope. Ugh, just tell me, is it worth it to hold out on the chance that we may hit the 15-20 level range, and that I *could* maybe finally get that elusive 9th level spell? Or should I lean towards branching out slightly, sacrificing my ability to cast 8th and 9th level spells (perhaps even 7th level), to have a bit more diverse build that is fun in the 1-10 level range of the campaign?
The build I have plotted out is going to be a fun healer/blaster. It would be awesome to have a ton of sorc points to play around with, twin cast cure wounds, etc. However, please give me your opinions also on two build variants I started thinking about once I got a taste of dnd gameplay last night.
Locked-in Details: "Minka Markov", Level 2 Albino Halfling Celesial Warlock/ Urchin background. Str 11/Dex 16/Con 14/Int 12/Wis 7/Cha 18. Warlock3/Sorc3 to start. After level 6 I could MC. Or I could maybe MC for level 6, as long as I go back for Metamagic at level 7. But the initial plan is to get Metamagic and Pact Boon ASAP.
One note to consider, I have an umbrella (to protect from prolonged sun exposure) that the DM has ruled could have Shillelagh cast on. Second note, chances are slim that my Umbrella will have the finesse property, thus no sneak attack with the umbrella... were I to MC Rogue. That said, Ima work on the DM to get one with finesse. No harm in trying right? ;)
Current Build Concept: Celestial Warlock 3/Divine Soul Sorc 17: Ive touched on this already, but would be Tomelock/book of shadows. Shillelagh + Green-Flame Blade. Eldritch Blast + Cha + Metamagic. Cure Wounds + Metamagic. Healing Light pool only 4d6. Flexible Casting and 17 Sorcery points. 9th level spells. Also...wings.
With Rogue MC: Celestial Warlock 3-X/Swashbuckler Rogue 3,4,5 or 7/Divine Soul Sorc X:
This would be a combat healer/blaster with the bonus benefit of a little sneak attack damage. Being a Swashbuckler would.....3 level dip: Cunning Action, Fancy Footwork, Rakish Audacity. 5th level dip adds Uncanny Dodge, and 7th level dip adds Evasion. That's a LOT of cool abilities to give a mobile, damage reducing, always-go-first feel to a character. I wanted to do this originally before I cut rogue out to focus on caster levels. Seven levels of Rogue gives me 4d6 sneak attack too, which while it doesnt work with spells, does work with Green-Flame Blade (see above note: maybe Dm let's me have a finesse umbrella LOL). This build would mean I would have less caster levels though :( . With W3/R3/S14, Id have 7th level spells. W3/R5/S12 gives me 6th level spells, and W3/R7/S10 is only 5th level spells. (With these 3 builds I could do Warlock 4 to get an ABI if I wanted). Accepting I will have less spell levels also means I could take more CelestiaLock levels if the build felt right too... A lot to consider here.
{EDIT new thought}
50:50 Split: I started looking at a 10/10 split between the HealsSorc and HealLock last night as i feel asleep. Maybe for ABI purposes it should be 12/8. But 10/10 gives me 10 sorc points, a third Metamagic talent, 5th level spells in both classes (if I think of this more as using sorc points and saccing spell slots for sorc points to heal a ton, with real sorc spells as back up, then 5th level spells feels ok-ish), five invocations known, 11d6 Healing Light pool, and my 10th level Patron Feature, Celestial Resistance. Doesnt do either warlock or sorc as fully intended, but instead becomes a Flexible Casting Healer/Blaster that views spell slots as expendable sorc points to fuel things.
{edit: moving away from this...}
With Bard MC: Celesial Warlock 3-X/?Bard 1-3?/Divine Soul Sorc X: AHHHHHH! Too many things! My brain is pulled in so many directions... Talk to me about Bard MC guys, please! The rogue ideas above are way more solid for me. I have never played a bard before. It would fit my character though, even just a splash. I really just like the idea of giving inspiration to my companions. So when I think about it, kinda weak to lose 9th level spells just to have a flavor detail you like eh? But have any of you played this combo? Pros and cons?
As Ive said, I am really in love with my W3/S17 build concept. I think it could be pretty powerful, and a lot of fun. I also love the idea of the Swashbuckler Sorclock, despite losing caster levels. The bard idea.... they cant all be zingers eh? Please convince me to stay as my original concept, or branch out and add rogue to it. Yell at me, cajole me, sooth me. I really just want all the opinions and information I can mull over.
I'm playing a Celestial Warlock right now and I'm planning on staying a Warlock without multi classing. Foresight at 9th level gives you advantage on every single roll and your opponents have disadvantage on every single roll against you. It's pretty much impossible to beat that and I'm SO looking forward to it!!!
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My patron is a Deva who serves Selune and I worship her.
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Very cool! Mine isnt as develpoed yet, but the DM chose a Unicorn :D
"One note to consider, I have an umbrella (to protect from prolonged sun exposure) that the DM has ruled could have Shillelagh cast on. Second note, chances are slim that my Umbrella will have the finesse property, thus no sneak attack with the umbrella... were I to MC Rogue. That said, Ima work on the DM to get one with finesse. No harm in trying right? ;)"
A shillelagh is a club. Clubs generally work by clubbing people with them, the harder the better. They get the bludgeoning attribute. They are not subtle. They rely heavily on momentum. And Strength. For clubbing. For smashing, crushing, pulping and clubbing some more.
If you gave an infinite number of monkeys an infinite number of typewriters and clubs, you would soon have an infinite number of monkeys with an infinite number of broken typewriters bashing each other over the head with their clubs. Thankfully, you'd get no Shakespeare.
Arguing for the finesse attribute on a club would be akin to asking for a rapier to have the bludgeoning attribute. I have been hit VERY hard with "slashing" attacks from fencing weapons - they might leave a welt through an ordinary fencing jacket, but if I was wearing my motorcycle jacket I would barely notice it.
You could punch someone in the face with a rapier hilt, but around my table you would lose the finesse aspect of the weapon while you did so. A punch to the face is rarely subtle.
Now if you wanted to homebrew a spell similar to Shillelagh, where the weapon has finesse, so that you could go Mary Poppins on someone's ass, that would be the sugar to help the healing potion go down....
Clubs - putting the pulp into fiction since Raquel first donned a fur bikini.
Roleplaying since Runequest.
I wrote my character's back story and his back story includes his patron. The only thing that I haven't done yet is name his patron. I really need to do that since he's 6th level and I started him at 1st level.....
Professional computer geek
When I look at the weapons table I see those weapons which were designed with game mechanics philosophy and those that were not.
Longsword/Battleaxe/Warhammer are the exact same weapon except slashing and bludgeoning are swapped out. They are Martial, 1d8 damage, and Versatile. They are identical and so player's flavor which they prefer.
Rapier isMartial, 1d8, but Finesse instead of Versatile. This irks me because there are no options for flavor.
Scimitar/Shortsword are Martial, 1d6, Light Finesse. Here we can see the Light property is worth losing a damage die from the Rapier. It's flavor if you cut or stab.
Whip is Martial, 1d4, Finesse, Reach. Here we can see the Reach property is worth losing 2 damage dice from the Rapier.
Flail/Morningstar/Warpick are Martial, 1d8 but no special mod, they are out and out inferior to the above weapons with zero mechanical reason to take them.
Trident is a Spear but requires Martial, that's it. It's even more inferior to everything else because it's a SIMPLE weapon that require Martial.
The Net is probably the worst weapon in the game. Without a Feat it's *always* used at DisAdvantage.
Ultimately I like to go with "Monk Weapons" as my guide. We don't and didn't need a book filled with hundreds of useless and identical weapons (3rd edition!). A Katana or Dao = Longsword, a Macuahuitl = Battleaxe, etc... etc... If you want a blunt, martial, finesse weapon... Google "manriki" or something similar. Rule of Cool.
As for a weapon you can both use Shillelagh and be Finesse to get rogue's sneak attack?
I talked to the dm, and he said down the line I could get a better umbrella, but early levels it is just an umbrella, but one with a nice oak handle/shaft. In any case, it will be level 3 before I get Shillelagh, and *if* i go rogue it wont be til level 7, so plenty of time to figure out the umbrella details.
I'm just waiting to see all the drow start carrying them....please don't. Unless you are John Steed, they just aren't cool. And maybe not even then!
Roleplaying since Runequest.
Mr. Bunny - I get where you are coming from, but not all weapons were/are created equal.
Neither were many of them created with adventurers in mind.
I would support ALL weapons doing 1d8 damage + 1 attribute, or 1D10 plain, or 1D6 with 2 attributes. People could then choose weapons based on flavour with a tiny hint of versatility.
It's not realistic, but you already covered that...
Now, I'm off to check my Traveller (Edition 1) weapons charts for attacks against foil covered chainmail in a light fog.....
Roleplaying since Runequest.
I think that the umbrella idea is awesome!! It's creative, silly, and all around great!
Professional computer geek
"So...Im sorry, you are telling me not to cast Shillelagh on my umbrella, because it will somehow make drow want to carry umbrellas? And then you are telling me that on top of that, it isnt a cool idea at all. "
No, I was making a terrible joke!
But I did have to go back and check your character wasn't a drow attempting to pull one over the DM. "I'm not in sunlight - I am shaded by an umbrella!"
As to what is "cool" - we all have our own internal thermometers for that. In my defence, apart from 60's spy (?) John Steed, the only other "famous" brolly users are Mary Poppins and Batman-Villain Penguin; that is why I suggested they might not be cool.
"I am really curious how me having an umbrella is going to affect all the other dnd games in the world, ruining them by having umbrella carrying drow invade everywhere" - Tell the truth, if you started that invasion, you'd be just a little bit proud? :)
Perhaps "Umbrella" is a metaphor for cloud of volcanic ash that blocks out the sun, allowing those fiends unfettered access to the surface world?
If you love your umbrella - great! Don't let one opinion from a random internet user put you off! FWIW, I love umbrellas, big hats, tents and trees and anything else that lets me enjoy being out in the rain without getting too wet. And due to light sensitive eyes, I love anything that keeps that blasted sun out of them.
I stand by my comments on the Shillelagh though, clubs and finesse don't mix.
"Are 9th level spells worth it?"
The most important spells in the game are level 1 - you will cast them from day one, and probably every day after that. With the ability to cast them using higher level slots, they get even better. 9th level spells are like that yacht you are saving all your pennies for so that you can sail the Caribbean when you finally buy it aged 72.
Roleplaying since Runequest.
So 9th level spells - worth it? If you do a 3/17 build I would suggest they are not worth it. You won't get that 9th level spell slot until 20th level. If you play that long. Even with a "good feeling" about it - that's still a big if. And if you do get to 20th level, how much time will you spend there? On top of that, your healing ability is less and less useful every time you level up, with Warlock stuck at 3.
If you really want to enjoy 9th level spells go single class - Sorcerer or Warlock and start using them at level 17. Unless your DM does XP using a variant method, you will spend a LOT LOT longer (probably 6-8 times as long) at levels 17, 18, 19, and 20 combined than you will at just level 20.
Your other possible builds look like a lot of mid level fun. Be sure to think about how you will manage bonus actions - you will likely have more good options than you can use. And you will sufferer from lack of ASI's/feats if you triple class.
Umbrella as a club is cool; that's not asking much of the DM at all. Shillelagh on it is super legit once the DM has declared it a club. As a DM I would not give you finesse with it though.
All finesse weapons are piercing. (Thanks to Matthias_von_Schwarzwald for pointing out whip and scimitar, both slashing finesse weapons, I was only thinking of simple weapons, not martial) I think that's been done for several balance reasons, one of which I would bet is so you can't use sneak attack damage in conjunction with Shillelagh. But hey, as a player, I'll take what I can get from my DM, even if somewhat cheesy, so, if you aren't embarrassed to ask for that much special treatment, I'd go for it. :)"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both" -- allegedly Benjamin Franklin
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