Then waste your action next turn re summoning it. It has it's uses (Longbow from Improved Pact Weapon + Eldritch Smite to shoot a dragon out of the sky then switch back to a melee weapon).
It takes an action to reshape/summon a pact weapon far as I know. Where is it that you can use your bonus action? I might have missed something.
No, you are correct. It is an action. I made the character as an alt to my Tome lock so I have not played it yet so you may have saved me from making that mistake if it comes out. More to my point though it does say you chose the form each time your summon it if its not bound and I have not seen anyone really talking about the utility that provides. I specifically made this Bladelock using a whip and crossbow switching it back and forth as needed because its so unheard of and I like unique characters. It's quite the mental image that it invokes. Kind of a Voltron/power ranger calling/morphing their weapon for different situation. It doesn't need short 5ft weapon with more damage because I took shadow blade as a spell for when I REALLY need to do some damage but not one things I am dangerous with my whip. Shadowblade + booming blade/greenflame blade = ouch. The crossbow lets me ignore eldritch blast and take a more "fighter" feel to my character and because I get Charisma on "to hit" and damage as well as +1 to both due to improved pact weapon (in places of agonizing blast) for will mean it will do the same damage for level 1&2 and better damage lvl 3-10. I am thinking the access to there level 5 spell slots at level 11 will mean that I care less about the lose of am additional beam with eldritch blast. I have not played a character higher than level 15 in years so the 17 jump is not really even a consideration at the moment.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
The lack of inflection in text means that a reader of any post adds their own inflection as they "verbalize" it in their head. I write long and repetitive in an effort to be clear and avoid my intent from being skewed or inverted. I am also bad at examples. It is common for people to skim my posts pull out the idea they think I mean or want to argue against or focus on my bad example instead of the point I am actually trying to make. I apologies for the confusion my failure to be clear and concise creates.
Think the BA is sending it to the other realm? So, you could use it for an attack, then dismiss it...
I looked it up. We are both thinking of the Eldritch Knight Bonded weapon which is very similar and is summoned with a bonus action. The Warlock Pact weapon is an action, but does not requiring bonding and can shapeshift if it does not. It would be an action to resummon it in a new form per the rules.
Its like KageAcuma said, when you need to go ranged its a descent option. My design is hexblade taking Crossbow Expert, thirsty-blade, and improved pact weapons so I can summon a heavy crossbow, I can fire it twice (with no disadvantage at in melee) doing 1d10 +cha +1 x 2 damage. This is actually better than Eldritch Blast + agonizing blast until level 11 when you get the 3rd beam. Since the two of the invocations are usable with the whip + booming blade come get me I dare you option... I think it works out decently well.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
The lack of inflection in text means that a reader of any post adds their own inflection as they "verbalize" it in their head. I write long and repetitive in an effort to be clear and avoid my intent from being skewed or inverted. I am also bad at examples. It is common for people to skim my posts pull out the idea they think I mean or want to argue against or focus on my bad example instead of the point I am actually trying to make. I apologies for the confusion my failure to be clear and concise creates.
I like the crossbow / whip swapping. Should give you some nice variety.
Since Ash's katana was granted by her patron (or maybe is her patron - she's not sure...) she wants to use that weapon primarily, and is bonded to it. It is by far the weapon of choice - she only carries a pair of daggers in her boots as other weapons. But, our party encountered a pack of skeletons, and slashing weapons aren't that great on those... and many other creatures.
So... her plan is to harvest a femur from her last kill, and she's going to clean it and wrap one end with leather. When she creates a pact weapon, she's going to grab the bone, swirl some shadows around the business end until they solidify into the head of a Warhammer. The PotB feature should allow me to use my CHA bonus for ATK & DAM, as well as +2 proficiency. And it count as magical for resistance stuff. and if the katana is sheathed (or sent back to the Shadowfell) it can be a two-handed weapon.
She can always Eldritch Blast for ranged attacks...
so you mention that the rule was written this way to prevent hexblades from using their patron, however hexblades were not even a thing when the PHB came out, or at least were not published. so to most people who would just be using the base player's handbook, wielding their patron isn't a problem as they will have as their patron an archfey, fiend or great old one. so why wouldn't a fiend blade pact warlock who finds the sword of kas in a vechna/undead themed adventure be able to use it as their pact weapon? they can only use thirsting blade, the warlock equivalent of extra attack with their pact weapon so using the sword of kas is going to generally be difficult when they cant even attack twice.
basically what I am getting at is this rule was put in before hexblades and the concept of having sentient weapons as patrons (which isn't even the case anymore with hexblades) were a published thing in the rules. so why would they put in a rule to cover for something that doesn't even exist at that point?
so you mention that the rule was written this way to prevent hexblades from using their patron, however hexblades were not even a thing when the PHB came out, or at least were not published. so to most people who would just be using the base player's handbook, wielding their patron isn't a problem as they will have as their patron an archfey, fiend or great old one. so why wouldn't a fiend blade pact warlock who finds the sword of kas in a vechna/undead themed adventure be able to use it as their pact weapon? they can only use thirsting blade, the warlock equivalent of extra attack with their pact weapon so using the sword of kas is going to generally be difficult when they cant even attack twice.
basically what I am getting at is this rule was put in before hexblades and the concept of having sentient weapons as patrons (which isn't even the case anymore with hexblades) were a published thing in the rules. so why would they put in a rule to cover for something that doesn't even exist at that point?
The Hexblade is from older additionsand were always being planed for, but your saying If your get:
Sword of Kas
The Sword of Kas is appropriate for epic-level characters.
Sword of Kas Sword of Kas Epic Level The Sword of Kas was created by Vecna for his lieutenant. Kas rewarded his former master by using it to cut off Vecna’s hand and gouge out his eye. The Sword offers great power to any who grasp it, but wielders end up betraying what they love most.
-The Sword of Kas is a +5 vicious short sword with the following properties and powers.
Enhancement: Attack rolls and damage rolls Critical: +5d12 damage.
Property: The Sword of Kas deals 2d10 extra damage against allies and former allies.
Property: Whenever an attack with the Sword of Kas reduces a target to 0 hit points or fewer, you gain concealment until the end of your next turn.
Property: If you attack Vecna, a servant of Vecna, a cultist of Vecna, or any other creature working directly to serve Vecna’s ends, you deal 5 extra damage on a hit.
Property: When you take the total defense action or use your second wind, you gain a +5 item bonus to all defenses until the start of your next turn.
Property: The Sword of Kas is initially invisible to everyone but the creature possessing it. You gain combat advantage against melee targets when using it until you successfully hit, at which point the weapon becomes visible to everyone. The Sword of Kas turns invisible again after being sheathed for a short rest (or for 5 minutes).
Power (Encounter): Free Action. When you would pull or push a target, you slide the target the same distance instead.
Power (Daily ✦ Poison, Radiant): Free Action. When you hit with the Sword of Kas, the target takes ongoing 15 poison damage (save ends). If the attack is made against an undead creature, it instead takes ongoing 15 radiant damage (save ends). Saving throws made to end this effect take a –2 penalty.
Its not useful because you can't make it a pact weapon and attack twice with thirsty blade?.... I am going to say If I get this (being an EXTREMELY rare event) I don't care about my pact weapon any more.... I am using this. It's a +5 sword, that gets advantage on the first combat turn its used every new fight, +5d12 damage on critical hits, If you kill someone you disappear gaining advantage on your attacks for your next round, allows you to take a defense pose that adds +5 to AC and ALL saves (way better than monks patient defense) and comes with built in smite...
You shouldn't even think about weapons like this until your level 17 or higher, which most people don't even make it to if surveys are to be believed. So your talking about "this should be ok from level 1" like your getting this at level 1, it would even show up in most campaigns for the rule to matter, …..but players are seriously thinking its okay to get this at level 1 because they take the Hexblade Patrion… which one of those is the bigger concern for game desingers and GMs....
The lack of inflection in text means that a reader of any post adds their own inflection as they "verbalize" it in their head. I write long and repetitive in an effort to be clear and avoid my intent from being skewed or inverted. I am also bad at examples. It is common for people to skim my posts pull out the idea they think I mean or want to argue against or focus on my bad example instead of the point I am actually trying to make. I apologies for the confusion my failure to be clear and concise creates.
A hexblade cannot make a sentient weapon its pact weapon
There is nothing stopping a hexblade attuning to a sentient weapon, it just cant be the pact weapon.
I am not missing the point. It is actually part of mine if you look at the last to paragraphs. But there are two ways to look at that.
1. As a Hexblade warlock pact of the blade you saying "This is stupid if I can use it it should be my pact weapon" ... Of course this a is a "what if" that does not even effect all warlock pacts.... If your a pact of the blade ... your level 17+ .... your the only one in your party getting an extremely rare artifact ... that happens to be melee.... I have no sympathy for character who very likely just became the most powerful character in their party ... complaining because they want to be a little more powerful.... so sad for the lucky Demi god...boohoo.
2. A much more common problem in my experience is the level 1 player taking Hexblade Pact of the Blade and arguing they get a Sword of Kas equivalent weapon at level one because of "fluff" despite it not saying anything about them getting one in the sublcass ... then me saying no you don't because the pact of the blade specifically calls out that you can't use a Sentient Weapon as your pact weapon. Which results is annoyed/sad face but ends the argument every time.
I support number 2 because without it I get in endless debates... I have NEVER run across anything like number one so its a non-issue... that is not a mountain its a mole hill. The reason I made the thread is because I had the #2 argument ... for the 3rd time since the hexblade class came out. This is a clear case of this rule being more help than harm in my opinion.
The lack of inflection in text means that a reader of any post adds their own inflection as they "verbalize" it in their head. I write long and repetitive in an effort to be clear and avoid my intent from being skewed or inverted. I am also bad at examples. It is common for people to skim my posts pull out the idea they think I mean or want to argue against or focus on my bad example instead of the point I am actually trying to make. I apologies for the confusion my failure to be clear and concise creates.
"Heh newbies might ask for epic level weapons, better make sure a Hexblade Warlock can never, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever benefit." is such a tired, inane argument. Any DM worth even a quarter of his salt will know how to handle that situation. Luckily, my DM is smart enough to completely toss this asinine rule. If my character finds a sentient artifact weapon, it will be my pact weapon.
"Heh newbies might ask for epic level weapons, better make sure a Hexblade Warlock can never, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever benefit." is such a tired, inane argument. Any DM worth even a quarter of his salt will know how to handle that situation. Luckily, my DM is smart enough to completely toss this asinine rule. If my character finds a sentient artifact weapon, it will be my pact weapon.
If the problem was a might a or maybe instead of have and continue to do so every time a new player "discovers" the Hex blade subclass you would have a point. However, since this is recurring event that happens and a warlock player actually getting an artifact melee weapon has never happened in any game I have ever played in or GM'd … I will say your personal attacks not with standing, you seem to have missed that I mentioned in prior posts that I would have no problem lifting the limit at level 17 as a "class feature" but is simply has NEVER come up. So unless your saying your DM is removing this at lower levels and giving you an artifact weapon at the same time... your missing the point and your implication of lack of inelegance by me and my GMs doing the same thing as your GM is without any grounds.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
The lack of inflection in text means that a reader of any post adds their own inflection as they "verbalize" it in their head. I write long and repetitive in an effort to be clear and avoid my intent from being skewed or inverted. I am also bad at examples. It is common for people to skim my posts pull out the idea they think I mean or want to argue against or focus on my bad example instead of the point I am actually trying to make. I apologies for the confusion my failure to be clear and concise creates.
The stats you referenced for Sword of Kas is from 4th edition. This weapon got readjusted for 5th Edition:
5th Edition Dungeon Masters Guide: Jeremy Crawford, Chris Perkins and James Wyatt's chance at the sword goes like this: +3 long sword, 19-20 critical, extra 2d10 damage to undead. It has 2 random properties and 2 random drawbacks. It has a 15 Int, 13 Wis, 16 Cha. The sword's bonus is scaled back like much of the edition's combat, but I see it's still keyed to killing undead things like Vecna. At least there is no vorpal properties or fire giant strength boosts. The sword adds d10 to initiative and the attack bonus can be put towards AC. That's the old Defender ability with a new twist. Spellwise, it has Call Lightning, Divine Word, Finger of Death. The sword still doesn't lose it's power when facing Vecna or his items so the futility of the sword's purpose isn't as bad as in the old days.
And yeah I don't think the makers of 5th edition wanted anyone at 1st level to get anything like these feature just for making a sentient weapon pact.
And if you are using 4th edition equipment in 5th edition you have essentially broken the game already.
So it seems to me that No, a sentient weapon cannot be a Pact Weapon.
But, under the Hex Warrior description of “touching any weapon you are proficient with and lacks the two-handed property”, there is no reference to not allowing a one-handed sentient weapon that you are proficient with from becoming your bonused (non pact) weapon. So the sentient weapon would gain your charisma modifier for attack and damage.
Two possibilities beyond this.
1) Take dual wield, whereas you other weapon becomes your pact weapon (pact weapon 1 hour attunement is different than the “weapon touched” which is not a ritual attunement” )
2) Forego Pact of the Blade and take another pact, therefore giving up on Eldridge Smite, Improved Pact Weapon, Lifedrinker, Thirsting Blade choices. But then, you have a sentient weapon, so...
Number 2 is risky as you most likely won’t have a sentient weapon by lvl 3 when you must make your choice on pacts.
Pretty sure my GM and I are breaking the rules, but... we've been discussing most of these aspects, and we are in agreement...
I have a 3rd level Hexblade, and as a part of her backstory, after her first paid contract kill, she was whisked to the Shadowfell, and upon her return she had a Katana. When the handle grew cold, she was supposed to kill something with it. When it grew warm, she was supposed to leave it alone. So, it doesn't talk, or anything, but it can occasionally guide her actions. Usually, it's just a sword, and seems to have minimal impact on everyday actions.
So, I built the katana like a longsword, with the versatile property. My GM gives me the CHA bonus when using it 2-handed, so I guess that's a no-no.
Also, since I mentioned I'd like to do a multi-class Rogue dip, sneak attack is restricted to Finesse weapons. Last session, the handle got cold, and she killed a beast with it. At that point, her sword ShadowReaver became +1 to hit/DAM, became a Finesse weapon (as well as Versatile...) and allowed me to regain a spell slot when I kill something with it (2x/day.)
My assumption is that this sword will probably continue to gain power, but I expect it will also throw a monkey wrench into the works, too. If as I suspect, it's drawn to end the lives of creatures that have cheated death, well... that's going to be our whole party pretty soon...
So the weapon is obviously homebrew. The two-handed rule is Hexworior UNLESS its a pact weapon. So your using a homebrew sword as a pact weapon. The only thing that's really "against the rules" is if the homebrew weapon is your patron, but at the same time you could say its not the patron but a gift and focus from your patron used to send you messages and grant you power. Subtle difference but game play is the same. Ultimately your homebrewing and you know it, which means you can do as you wish. All I really want people to know it that per the rules their is nothing about hexblades that grant them a free artifact weapon. Making a scaling weapon is a cool homebrew but as homebrew it has nothing to do with the rule. Just like I have noticed a lot of player thinking hexblades pact of the blade have to use a sword, but I made one with improved pact weapon that changes his back and forth between a whip and a crossbow as a action... which is within the rules. The pact weapon makes him proficient with it no matter the form and their is no requirement to keep a specific weapon form UNLESS you bind a physical magical weapon as your pact weapon.
The Longsword is allowed from level 1 as it has the versatile property not the two handed property, at 3rd level if they go pact of the blade then it can be any weapon.
Pretty sure my GM and I are breaking the rules, but... we've been discussing most of these aspects, and we are in agreement...
I have a 3rd level Hexblade, and as a part of her backstory, after her first paid contract kill, she was whisked to the Shadowfell, and upon her return she had a Katana. When the handle grew cold, she was supposed to kill something with it. When it grew warm, she was supposed to leave it alone. So, it doesn't talk, or anything, but it can occasionally guide her actions. Usually, it's just a sword, and seems to have minimal impact on everyday actions.
So, I built the katana like a longsword, with the versatile property. My GM gives me the CHA bonus when using it 2-handed, so I guess that's a no-no.
Also, since I mentioned I'd like to do a multi-class Rogue dip, sneak attack is restricted to Finesse weapons. Last session, the handle got cold, and she killed a beast with it. At that point, her sword ShadowReaver became +1 to hit/DAM, became a Finesse weapon (as well as Versatile...) and allowed me to regain a spell slot when I kill something with it (2x/day.)
My assumption is that this sword will probably continue to gain power, but I expect it will also throw a monkey wrench into the works, too. If as I suspect, it's drawn to end the lives of creatures that have cheated death, well... that's going to be our whole party pretty soon...
So the weapon is obviously homebrew. The two-handed rule is Hexworior UNLESS its a pact weapon. So your using a homebrew sword as a pact weapon. The only thing that's really "against the rules" is if the homebrew weapon is your patron, but at the same time you could say its not the patron but a gift and focus from your patron used to send you messages and grant you power. Subtle difference but game play is the same. Ultimately your homebrewing and you know it, which means you can do as you wish. All I really want people to know it that per the rules their is nothing about hexblades that grant them a free artifact weapon. Making a scaling weapon is a cool homebrew but as homebrew it has nothing to do with the rule. Just like I have noticed a lot of player thinking hexblades pact of the blade have to use a sword, but I made one with improved pact weapon that changes his back and forth between a whip and a crossbow as a action... which is within the rules. The pact weapon makes him proficient with it no matter the form and their is no requirement to keep a specific weapon form UNLESS you bind a physical magical weapon as your pact weapon.
The Longsword is allowed from level 1 as it has the versatile property not the two handed property, at 3rd level if they go pact of the blade then it can be any weapon.
A the Katana is being used as a "re-skin" of Longsword is within RAW the fact when it kills things it gains a +1 to hit and damage as well as being Finesse and restoring spell slotsdefiantly makes this a homebrew weapon. Pact weapons can't be sentient so not "Any weapon".
PHB p.108 "You perform the ritual over the course of 1 hour, which can be done during a short rest. You can then dismiss the weapon, shunting it into an extradimensional space, and it appears whenever you create your pact weapon thereafter. You can’t affect an artifact or a sentient weapon in this way."
So my point was the Homebrew could still be a homebrew and avoid breaking the rules by being a gift from the patron instead of the patron itself, but the recognition is that this IS HOMEBREW and nothing in the rules gives a Hex blade gives this, an artifact, or sentient weapon to hex blades and that players should not expect them for taking this subclass. That's really all I am asking here because it does keep coming up.
-Side note:
I would also point out their is nothing that requires a hexblade to use a blade, I have hexblade pact of the blade with the Improved pact weapon eldritch invocation who changes his between a heavy crossbow for ranged (instead of using eldritch blast) and a wipe for 10ft reach that uses Dex combining the hexblades cures, hex, and booming blade on the wipe or sharp shooter for heavy crossbow. No its not optimized but it has some interesting play.
I also have hexblade pact of the tome that uses the hexblades curse with Eldritch blast and shocking grasp as a tome spell but has no melee weapon.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
The lack of inflection in text means that a reader of any post adds their own inflection as they "verbalize" it in their head. I write long and repetitive in an effort to be clear and avoid my intent from being skewed or inverted. I am also bad at examples. It is common for people to skim my posts pull out the idea they think I mean or want to argue against or focus on my bad example instead of the point I am actually trying to make. I apologies for the confusion my failure to be clear and concise creates.
Actually I was rereading the pact of blade recently and I noticed that the only time it mentions restrictions on sentient and artifact weapons is when sending the weapon to a extradimensional for storage, the answer is you can't. So as long as you keep it in a normal sheath you should fine.
Also I agree with you on that your patron is the sentient object itself, especially with the change they are doing to the Raven Queen. However why stop at sentient weapons, the spell list given would be perfectly with the Ring of Winter being your patron. Subtly controlling your actions to seek it out and bring about it's mission.
What is the Ring of Winter? Is it an actual ring or is it a group of people?
@Morama_the_Gnome_Sorcerer I am just quoting DukeForau's post so anyone jumping to the end and reading quickstudy's comment In your post, will see its already been answered by they guy who approves the rules in an attempt to prevent the necromancy of a debate point answered on the very first page.
The lack of inflection in text means that a reader of any post adds their own inflection as they "verbalize" it in their head. I write long and repetitive in an effort to be clear and avoid my intent from being skewed or inverted. I am also bad at examples. It is common for people to skim my posts pull out the idea they think I mean or want to argue against or focus on my bad example instead of the point I am actually trying to make. I apologies for the confusion my failure to be clear and concise creates.
I'll make it easy. No sentient weapon is going to want its wielder to have another master or be shunted away into the proverbial closet all the time. Even your patron. And artifacts are usually to strong to simply be bound by most other magic. Even wish fails against many of them.
I guess that makes sense. Still I would think it would acceptable if the Hexblade could at least get the full ability to use their Patron in their hand(s) if they are going with the idea that Hexblades have a sentient item as their Patron, instead of the Raven Queen.
The sentient weapon IS NOT the patron. That was crap fluff used in the UA preview, even then it wasn't saying you got your patron as a weapon. The official content says it is a being in the Shadowfell associated with sentient weapons, not the weapons themselves. And from an RP standpoint a Patron would never allot their Warlock to use' them like some common tool.
Its an odd rule to exclude the Hexblade, well any pact of the blade warlock, from weilding an artifact or sentient weapon while all other more martial and gish classes can. It does make sense though, to an extent. I mean, shutting an artifact or sentient weapon into a pocket demension doesn't make sense to me at all.
You can wield it and even designate it as your Hexblade weapon, you just cant make it your Pact weapon.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
Think the BA is sending it to the other realm? So, you could use it for an attack, then dismiss it...
Then waste your action next turn re summoning it. It has it's uses (Longbow from Improved Pact Weapon + Eldritch Smite to shoot a dragon out of the sky then switch back to a melee weapon).
No, you are correct. It is an action. I made the character as an alt to my Tome lock so I have not played it yet so you may have saved me from making that mistake if it comes out. More to my point though it does say you chose the form each time your summon it if its not bound and I have not seen anyone really talking about the utility that provides. I specifically made this Bladelock using a whip and crossbow switching it back and forth as needed because its so unheard of and I like unique characters. It's quite the mental image that it invokes. Kind of a Voltron/power ranger calling/morphing their weapon for different situation. It doesn't need short 5ft weapon with more damage because I took shadow blade as a spell for when I REALLY need to do some damage but not one things I am dangerous with my whip. Shadowblade + booming blade/greenflame blade = ouch. The crossbow lets me ignore eldritch blast and take a more "fighter" feel to my character and because I get Charisma on "to hit" and damage as well as +1 to both due to improved pact weapon (in places of agonizing blast) for will mean it will do the same damage for level 1&2 and better damage lvl 3-10. I am thinking the access to there level 5 spell slots at level 11 will mean that I care less about the lose of am additional beam with eldritch blast. I have not played a character higher than level 15 in years so the 17 jump is not really even a consideration at the moment.
The lack of inflection in text means that a reader of any post adds their own inflection as they "verbalize" it in their head. I write long and repetitive in an effort to be clear and avoid my intent from being skewed or inverted. I am also bad at examples. It is common for people to skim my posts pull out the idea they think I mean or want to argue against or focus on my bad example instead of the point I am actually trying to make. I apologies for the confusion my failure to be clear and concise creates.
I looked it up. We are both thinking of the Eldritch Knight Bonded weapon which is very similar and is summoned with a bonus action. The Warlock Pact weapon is an action, but does not requiring bonding and can shapeshift if it does not. It would be an action to resummon it in a new form per the rules.
Its like KageAcuma said, when you need to go ranged its a descent option. My design is hexblade taking Crossbow Expert, thirsty-blade, and improved pact weapons so I can summon a heavy crossbow, I can fire it twice (with no disadvantage at in melee) doing 1d10 +cha +1 x 2 damage. This is actually better than Eldritch Blast + agonizing blast until level 11 when you get the 3rd beam. Since the two of the invocations are usable with the whip + booming blade come get me I dare you option... I think it works out decently well.
The lack of inflection in text means that a reader of any post adds their own inflection as they "verbalize" it in their head. I write long and repetitive in an effort to be clear and avoid my intent from being skewed or inverted. I am also bad at examples. It is common for people to skim my posts pull out the idea they think I mean or want to argue against or focus on my bad example instead of the point I am actually trying to make. I apologies for the confusion my failure to be clear and concise creates.
I like the crossbow / whip swapping. Should give you some nice variety.
Since Ash's katana was granted by her patron (or maybe is her patron - she's not sure...) she wants to use that weapon primarily, and is bonded to it. It is by far the weapon of choice - she only carries a pair of daggers in her boots as other weapons. But, our party encountered a pack of skeletons, and slashing weapons aren't that great on those... and many other creatures.
So... her plan is to harvest a femur from her last kill, and she's going to clean it and wrap one end with leather. When she creates a pact weapon, she's going to grab the bone, swirl some shadows around the business end until they solidify into the head of a Warhammer. The PotB feature should allow me to use my CHA bonus for ATK & DAM, as well as +2 proficiency. And it count as magical for resistance stuff. and if the katana is sheathed (or sent back to the Shadowfell) it can be a two-handed weapon.
She can always Eldritch Blast for ranged attacks...
so you mention that the rule was written this way to prevent hexblades from using their patron, however hexblades were not even a thing when the PHB came out, or at least were not published. so to most people who would just be using the base player's handbook, wielding their patron isn't a problem as they will have as their patron an archfey, fiend or great old one. so why wouldn't a fiend blade pact warlock who finds the sword of kas in a vechna/undead themed adventure be able to use it as their pact weapon? they can only use thirsting blade, the warlock equivalent of extra attack with their pact weapon so using the sword of kas is going to generally be difficult when they cant even attack twice.
basically what I am getting at is this rule was put in before hexblades and the concept of having sentient weapons as patrons (which isn't even the case anymore with hexblades) were a published thing in the rules. so why would they put in a rule to cover for something that doesn't even exist at that point?
The Hexblade is from older additions and were always being planed for, but your saying If your get:
Sword of Kas
The Sword of Kas is appropriate for epic-level characters.
Sword of Kas Sword of Kas Epic Level The Sword of Kas was created by Vecna for his lieutenant. Kas rewarded his former master by using it to cut off Vecna’s hand and gouge out his eye. The Sword offers great power to any who grasp it, but wielders end up betraying what they love most.
-The Sword of Kas is a +5 vicious short sword with the following properties and powers.
Enhancement: Attack rolls and damage rolls Critical: +5d12 damage.
Property: The Sword of Kas deals 2d10 extra damage against allies and former allies.
Property: Whenever an attack with the Sword of Kas reduces a target to 0 hit points or fewer, you gain concealment until the end of your next turn.
Property: If you attack Vecna, a servant of Vecna, a cultist of Vecna, or any other creature working directly to serve Vecna’s ends, you deal 5 extra damage on a hit.
Property: When you take the total defense action or use your second wind, you gain a +5 item bonus to all defenses until the start of your next turn.
Property: The Sword of Kas is initially invisible to everyone but the creature possessing it. You gain combat advantage against melee targets when using it until you successfully hit, at which point the weapon becomes visible to everyone. The Sword of Kas turns invisible again after being sheathed for a short rest (or for 5 minutes).
Power (Encounter): Free Action. When you would pull or push a target, you slide the target the same distance instead.
Power (Daily ✦ Poison, Radiant): Free Action. When you hit with the Sword of Kas, the target takes ongoing 15 poison damage (save ends). If the attack is made against an undead creature, it instead takes ongoing 15 radiant damage (save ends). Saving throws made to end this effect take a –2 penalty.
Its not useful because you can't make it a pact weapon and attack twice with thirsty blade?.... I am going to say If I get this (being an EXTREMELY rare event) I don't care about my pact weapon any more.... I am using this. It's a +5 sword, that gets advantage on the first combat turn its used every new fight, +5d12 damage on critical hits, If you kill someone you disappear gaining advantage on your attacks for your next round, allows you to take a defense pose that adds +5 to AC and ALL saves (way better than monks patient defense) and comes with built in smite...
You shouldn't even think about weapons like this until your level 17 or higher, which most people don't even make it to if surveys are to be believed. So your talking about "this should be ok from level 1" like your getting this at level 1, it would even show up in most campaigns for the rule to matter, …..but players are seriously thinking its okay to get this at level 1 because they take the Hexblade Patrion… which one of those is the bigger concern for game desingers and GMs....
The lack of inflection in text means that a reader of any post adds their own inflection as they "verbalize" it in their head. I write long and repetitive in an effort to be clear and avoid my intent from being skewed or inverted. I am also bad at examples. It is common for people to skim my posts pull out the idea they think I mean or want to argue against or focus on my bad example instead of the point I am actually trying to make. I apologies for the confusion my failure to be clear and concise creates.
I think you are missing the point
A hexblade cannot make a sentient weapon its pact weapon
There is nothing stopping a hexblade attuning to a sentient weapon, it just cant be the pact weapon.
I am not missing the point. It is actually part of mine if you look at the last to paragraphs. But there are two ways to look at that.
1. As a Hexblade warlock pact of the blade you saying "This is stupid if I can use it it should be my pact weapon" ... Of course this a is a "what if" that does not even effect all warlock pacts.... If your a pact of the blade ... your level 17+ .... your the only one in your party getting an extremely rare artifact ... that happens to be melee.... I have no sympathy for character who very likely just became the most powerful character in their party ... complaining because they want to be a little more powerful.... so sad for the lucky Demi god...boohoo.
2. A much more common problem in my experience is the level 1 player taking Hexblade Pact of the Blade and arguing they get a Sword of Kas equivalent weapon at level one because of "fluff" despite it not saying anything about them getting one in the sublcass ... then me saying no you don't because the pact of the blade specifically calls out that you can't use a Sentient Weapon as your pact weapon. Which results is annoyed/sad face but ends the argument every time.
I support number 2 because without it I get in endless debates... I have NEVER run across anything like number one so its a non-issue... that is not a mountain its a mole hill. The reason I made the thread is because I had the #2 argument ... for the 3rd time since the hexblade class came out. This is a clear case of this rule being more help than harm in my opinion.
The lack of inflection in text means that a reader of any post adds their own inflection as they "verbalize" it in their head. I write long and repetitive in an effort to be clear and avoid my intent from being skewed or inverted. I am also bad at examples. It is common for people to skim my posts pull out the idea they think I mean or want to argue against or focus on my bad example instead of the point I am actually trying to make. I apologies for the confusion my failure to be clear and concise creates.
"Heh newbies might ask for epic level weapons, better make sure a Hexblade Warlock can never, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever benefit." is such a tired, inane argument. Any DM worth even a quarter of his salt will know how to handle that situation. Luckily, my DM is smart enough to completely toss this asinine rule. If my character finds a sentient artifact weapon, it will be my pact weapon.
If the problem was a might a or maybe instead of have and continue to do so every time a new player "discovers" the Hex blade subclass you would have a point. However, since this is recurring event that happens and a warlock player actually getting an artifact melee weapon has never happened in any game I have ever played in or GM'd … I will say your personal attacks not with standing, you seem to have missed that I mentioned in prior posts that I would have no problem lifting the limit at level 17 as a "class feature" but is simply has NEVER come up. So unless your saying your DM is removing this at lower levels and giving you an artifact weapon at the same time... your missing the point and your implication of lack of inelegance by me and my GMs doing the same thing as your GM is without any grounds.
The lack of inflection in text means that a reader of any post adds their own inflection as they "verbalize" it in their head. I write long and repetitive in an effort to be clear and avoid my intent from being skewed or inverted. I am also bad at examples. It is common for people to skim my posts pull out the idea they think I mean or want to argue against or focus on my bad example instead of the point I am actually trying to make. I apologies for the confusion my failure to be clear and concise creates.
The stats you referenced for Sword of Kas is from 4th edition. This weapon got readjusted for 5th Edition:
5th Edition Dungeon Masters Guide: Jeremy Crawford, Chris Perkins and James Wyatt's chance at the sword goes like this: +3 long sword, 19-20 critical, extra 2d10 damage to undead. It has 2 random properties and 2 random drawbacks. It has a 15 Int, 13 Wis, 16 Cha. The sword's bonus is scaled back like much of the edition's combat, but I see it's still keyed to killing undead things like Vecna. At least there is no vorpal properties or fire giant strength boosts. The sword adds d10 to initiative and the attack bonus can be put towards AC. That's the old Defender ability with a new twist. Spellwise, it has Call Lightning, Divine Word, Finger of Death. The sword still doesn't lose it's power when facing Vecna or his items so the futility of the sword's purpose isn't as bad as in the old days.
And yeah I don't think the makers of 5th edition wanted anyone at 1st level to get anything like these feature just for making a sentient weapon pact.
And if you are using 4th edition equipment in 5th edition you have essentially broken the game already.
So it seems to me that No, a sentient weapon cannot be a Pact Weapon.
But, under the Hex Warrior description of “touching any weapon you are proficient with and lacks the two-handed property”, there is no reference to not allowing a one-handed sentient weapon that you are proficient with from becoming your bonused (non pact) weapon. So the sentient weapon would gain your charisma modifier for attack and damage.
Two possibilities beyond this.
1) Take dual wield, whereas you other weapon becomes your pact weapon (pact weapon 1 hour attunement is different than the “weapon touched” which is not a ritual attunement” )
2) Forego Pact of the Blade and take another pact, therefore giving up on Eldridge Smite, Improved Pact Weapon, Lifedrinker, Thirsting Blade choices. But then, you have a sentient weapon, so...
Number 2 is risky as you most likely won’t have a sentient weapon by lvl 3 when you must make your choice on pacts.
The Longsword is allowed from level 1 as it has the versatile property not the two handed property, at 3rd level if they go pact of the blade then it can be any weapon.
A the Katana is being used as a "re-skin" of Longsword is within RAW the fact when it kills things it gains a +1 to hit and damage as well as being Finesse and restoring spell slots defiantly makes this a homebrew weapon. Pact weapons can't be sentient so not "Any weapon".
PHB p.108 "You perform the ritual over the course of 1 hour, which can be done during a short rest. You can then dismiss the weapon, shunting it into an extradimensional space, and it appears whenever you create your pact weapon thereafter. You can’t affect an artifact or a sentient weapon in this way."
So my point was the Homebrew could still be a homebrew and avoid breaking the rules by being a gift from the patron instead of the patron itself, but the recognition is that this IS HOMEBREW and nothing in the rules gives a Hex blade gives this, an artifact, or sentient weapon to hex blades and that players should not expect them for taking this subclass. That's really all I am asking here because it does keep coming up.
-Side note:
I would also point out their is nothing that requires a hexblade to use a blade, I have hexblade pact of the blade with the Improved pact weapon eldritch invocation who changes his between a heavy crossbow for ranged (instead of using eldritch blast) and a wipe for 10ft reach that uses Dex combining the hexblades cures, hex, and booming blade on the wipe or sharp shooter for heavy crossbow. No its not optimized but it has some interesting play.
I also have hexblade pact of the tome that uses the hexblades curse with Eldritch blast and shocking grasp as a tome spell but has no melee weapon.
The lack of inflection in text means that a reader of any post adds their own inflection as they "verbalize" it in their head. I write long and repetitive in an effort to be clear and avoid my intent from being skewed or inverted. I am also bad at examples. It is common for people to skim my posts pull out the idea they think I mean or want to argue against or focus on my bad example instead of the point I am actually trying to make. I apologies for the confusion my failure to be clear and concise creates.
What is the Ring of Winter? Is it an actual ring or is it a group of people?
@Morama_the_Gnome_Sorcerer I am just quoting DukeForau's post so anyone jumping to the end and reading quickstudy's comment In your post, will see its already been answered by they guy who approves the rules in an attempt to prevent the necromancy of a debate point answered on the very first page.
The lack of inflection in text means that a reader of any post adds their own inflection as they "verbalize" it in their head. I write long and repetitive in an effort to be clear and avoid my intent from being skewed or inverted. I am also bad at examples. It is common for people to skim my posts pull out the idea they think I mean or want to argue against or focus on my bad example instead of the point I am actually trying to make. I apologies for the confusion my failure to be clear and concise creates.
I'll make it easy. No sentient weapon is going to want its wielder to have another master or be shunted away into the proverbial closet all the time. Even your patron. And artifacts are usually to strong to simply be bound by most other magic. Even wish fails against many of them.
The sentient weapon IS NOT the patron. That was crap fluff used in the UA preview, even then it wasn't saying you got your patron as a weapon. The official content says it is a being in the Shadowfell associated with sentient weapons, not the weapons themselves. And from an RP standpoint a Patron would never allot their Warlock to use' them like some common tool.
You can wield it and even designate it as your Hexblade weapon, you just cant make it your Pact weapon.