I certainly was not planning on going with a Tank build for my warlock, but things keep happening in our group. Turns out our Monk that we all thought was going to be the fighter in the group is choosing Way of the Shadow but has no range attacks (/facepalm the first). The bard hasn't decided yet which school he will be going into, but with a total AC of 12, we're not really expecting anything but constant death (/facepalm deux). We had a war priest who was supposed to help with our damage output slightly, but the DM kept running him out in the middle of the fight until he died with no one to heal or resurrect him (too low level for revivify yet... not to mention, he went off the other side of the castle wall so we wouldn't have been able to even get to him in the middle of a fight). I'm not going to go into how we feel that the DM is not running his healer character as he would his own character in another campaign, I just need to figure out a way to mitigate shenanigans and survive.
In time, I should be able to get at least two attacks following Hexblade / Blade Pact. I am currently not wearing armor, but can permacast Mage Armor and have an AC of 19 and can bump it to 20 if I put the last two points of Dex in before adding in any magic items (which will probably be few and far between). I rolled really really well with this guy (2x 17 & 2x 16), so I have great Charisma and Dexterity and really good Constitution and Wisdom. I will be using Charisma to do all melee attacks so Strength was total dump stat (11... which is not terrible for a dump stat, I know).
What are the best ways I can mitigate damage and try to turn him into a tankier version of a Warlock? Are there feats I should look at for the 4th level upgrade? I will get a second attack at 5th level if I follow this progression. I can't legally pick up Paladin (Strength is too low), but I'm not sure that I would want to if I could... the harm to Dexterity is much worse than the gain for quite some time. If auras make enough difference, I could be persuaded to look further and just continue to use Mage Armor until I could find something better than a 20 AC (and could then swap out the Invocation for better damage or improved pact weapon.
Any thoughts? Comments? If multiclassing is the only way to do this, I'm open, but would prefer well reasoned arguments to state the case. I'm also not looking for a "Level 20 Optimized Build", this is going from the ground up... not the top down... we'll probably be lucky to make it to level 10...
Best thing I would suggest is what I did for awhile with my Hexblade. Pick up a multiclass in Bard or Sorcerer and select Shield as one of your know spells. This way if you are about to get hit by something hard then you can cast it as a reaction, with one of the Bard's or Sorcerer's level 1 spell slots, granting you +5 AC till your next turn. You could also wield Staff of Defense but you would then have to decide to either what hand to world it.
Shadow Monk (or any monk) is not a tank for sure, but they are still going to do a lot of damage, and they don't really need a ranged attack with their insane mobility. If they have a few daggers on hand they should be covered.
At lower levels taking Fiendish Vigor will help you tank - cast it outside of combat and its 8 temp HP (since you can recast until you get a max roll) to start each day, refresh as needed.
You might also consider Armor of Agathys plus a Breastplate or Scale Mail instead of mage armor. That would give you AC 18 (and no need to pump DEX to 20) plus temp hitpoints and extra damage output.
Once you get your pact weapon you can switch to a 2 handed weapon and look at one or more of Sentinel, Pole Arm Master, and Great Weapon Master feats for additional damage and tanking. That is going to mean giving up your shield though.
Your group may need to focus on disabling and debilitating enemies to sink their damage, rather than tanking. The shadow monk has darkness, silence, and the ability to strike across a wide area of the battle field, and should be stunning as much as possible. The bard's spells are going to be control oriented as well.
If you decide to multi class you will delay getting your extra attack, in that case using Booming Blade makes a lot of sense as a way to boost damage at 5th character level (at 5th level you get an extra 1d8 damage added to the attack, and then still more damage if they move after).
Edit - and, with no healer, your group is going to want to take lots of short rests, which is great for you recovering spell slots and the monk recovering ki points, so you should both be using those up aggressively.
Unfortunately temp HP don’t stack. So Fiendish Vigor or Armor of Agathys will be great, but both will be a waste.
I’d take Feindish Vigor until you hit 5th level. Then I’d drop that for something else and pick up Armor of Agathys which will give you 15 temp HP and will also do 15 HP of cold damage to any opponents who hit you until those temp HP are gone.
Booming Blade is also helpful for CC since it will cause additional damage if they move away from you. So just be aware of your positioning.
On thing you can also do, if the DM let's you is get a hireling. Our party hired a Barbarian for a while, after our tank left, eventually my Warlock got strong enough to survive as a tank in most situations so we stopped hiring him. Though eventually I retired her and brought in a Forge Cleric I've been working on to do a better job tanking since we were getting to face much tougher creatures.
Oh and I would also recommend picking up the Tome of Levistus invocation as a nice Oh Shit! button. It has helped me survive a few potentially fatal attacks.
Tomb of Levistus
Prerequisite: 5th level
As a reaction when you take damage, you can entomb yourself in ice, which melts away at the end of your next turn. You gain 10 temporary hit points per warlock level, which take as much of the triggering damage as possible. Immediately after you take the damage, you gain vulnerability to fire damage, your speed is reduced to 0, and you are incapacitated. These effects, including any remaining temporary hit points, all end when the ice melts.
Once you use this invocation, you can’t use it again until you finish a short or long rest.
Is the Shield spell better than picking up Shield Mastery at 4th level? As I have 18 in both Dex and Cha, I can afford to pick up a feat... don't get me wrong, I would love to go straight to 20 on Charisma, but it doesn't help out my ability to deal with AoE damage.
Tomb of Levistus is an interesting option. I would have to take it at the expense of my capability of picking up a second attack for two more levels. When I can pick up my next Cantrip, I'll take a look at Booming Blade. Definitely a threatening spell for movement... and accomplishes what Sentinel can to some degree, though limiting to a single attack per round instead of two.
I need something like Zephyr Strike for Warlocks. Bonus action to cast, movement doesn't provoke opportunity attacks, and add an additional 1d8 force damage at some point in the next minute which triggers additional movement. This would allow me to move in combat, costs me a spell slot to trigger, the damage doesn't scale with level, but still allows additional damage. This way I could engage in melee but when needed get out of melee range with multiple opponents.
The Shield spell is a +5 to your AC for one round. Shield Mastery let's you shove with a shield and also helps you with Dex saves. They're different and which one is better is situational.
If you are playing the tank you want some more defensive abilities, plus if you do pick up Booming Blade you would be limited to one attack per turn anyway.
The Shield spell gives you a extra boost of AC while the Shield Mastery feat will allow you to add your shield's AC bonus to your DEX saving throws, as well as using your reaction to take no damage on a DC save. It mostly comes down to what are you going to face more, spell caster or weapon fighters.
With my current AC of 19, if something is going to hit me at my current level, it's probably going to be a natural 20 half the time, which is scary enough... hopefully I can just be nimble and out of the way for most attacks, but I am concerned about things like Fireball and Breath Weapon type stuff...
Sure but once you get to a higher level monsters begin to have more bonuses to their attack. My level 8 Forge Cleric with a AC 23 still gets hit 25%-35% of the time. Getting Shield Mastery at level 4 for you feat is good, but I still recommend picking up a class in Bard or Sorcerer after that for the Shield spell uses.
Another thing you could do is ask the DM for some homebrew magic items to help with your survivability, like a ring with Shield charges like Staff of Defense.
My DM used to hit me without rolling natural 20's when I had an AC of 18 or 19 plus the Shield spell! It was brutal when he did that to me and I was dodging instead of attacking too.
Paladin/Warlock is a pretty damn good way to 'tank', especially at higher levels if you pick your abilities right. You really dont need a high dex, as a breastplate will free up your invocation and get you near the same AC. Half plate is the same. Get medium armor master and suddenly its like you're wearing plate without the disadvantage to stealth. This can all be done without a paladin.
Getting a paladin can be well worth it. My own Hexblade was blessed by the roll gods (his lowest score was a 12 and the highest 18, so a 20 cha right off the bat.) So I can get him the paladin side. Mix that with Oath of the Ancients (rethemed a bit due to the characters oath to his patron to hunt sentient undead and remake the dead religion) and he'll be a Lich's worst nightmare (mage hunter feat ftw.) With seven levels in OotA he'll have resistance to all spell damage and a plus +5 from his aura of protection to all saving throws.
I also created a hexblade intending to be a striker type and was forced by circumstances into being a tank. Took the Fiendish Vigor invocation which allows me to cast false live (d4+4 temp hp) with no slot cost. Talked the party into combining resources so I could afford half plate and shield. Giving me a respectable AC of 19. Don't use Hex, use Blur to force attacks against you to be rolled at Disadvantage. It is surprisingly hard to roll a 19 at disadvantage, I don't get hit too much. My biggest challenge has been convincing opponents to keep attacking me instead of my easier to hit comrades.
Blur... there we go!!! Shield Master feat with Blur should cover enough of my extreme cases to go more confidently into melee range to prevent the healer from getting swamped! I’ll keep my Mage Armor, though... thank you. I can always add magic items to get me over 20 AC, over time. Will probably need to pick up War Caster later on as well... but survivability first!
You don't need Warcaster if you have Improved Pact Blade invocation. Also consider Mirror Image instead of Blur because it does not require Concentration. That would free up your concentration to use Hex which adds a huge amount of damage with 1d6 per attack (assuming you take the invocation for 2 attacks) or per each EB roll.
Warcaster's best benefit for a front line caster is the advantage on concentration saves. Mirror image is nice, and have considered doing exactly what knighthawk recommends on non-boss fights. When you truly don't want to get hit, however, Blur is probably the best option. If you really, really don't want to get hit try blur and mirror image!
Improved Pact Blade is definitely a thing... but not until later. 5th level will see the 2 Attack option chosen. I still need to add in Agonizing Blast and Lifedrinker... so, yeah, somewhere that one will factor in. And Mirror Image and Blur will probably never be cast together. That's a lot of Action economy to give away to not be hit. I'm ok with just imposing disadvantage when needed and being able to use the shield and my super high dex saves. I also have approval for the rebranded Zephyr's Strike which prevents attack of opportunity, but I can also just disengage if I'm trying to go that route, so I probably won't learn it. Not sold on the Mirror Image. Sure, it isn't a concentration, but it does not impose disadvantage. I'll mostly be using that if I'm being targeted by multiple opponents anyway and I would rather have everything attacking be at disadvantage than have the chance that they hit three duplicates that just disappear. I'll run some tests though just to make sure I'm not looking at that wrong-headed...
I certainly was not planning on going with a Tank build for my warlock, but things keep happening in our group. Turns out our Monk that we all thought was going to be the fighter in the group is choosing Way of the Shadow but has no range attacks (/facepalm the first). The bard hasn't decided yet which school he will be going into, but with a total AC of 12, we're not really expecting anything but constant death (/facepalm deux). We had a war priest who was supposed to help with our damage output slightly, but the DM kept running him out in the middle of the fight until he died with no one to heal or resurrect him (too low level for revivify yet... not to mention, he went off the other side of the castle wall so we wouldn't have been able to even get to him in the middle of a fight). I'm not going to go into how we feel that the DM is not running his healer character as he would his own character in another campaign, I just need to figure out a way to mitigate shenanigans and survive.
In time, I should be able to get at least two attacks following Hexblade / Blade Pact. I am currently not wearing armor, but can permacast Mage Armor and have an AC of 19 and can bump it to 20 if I put the last two points of Dex in before adding in any magic items (which will probably be few and far between). I rolled really really well with this guy (2x 17 & 2x 16), so I have great Charisma and Dexterity and really good Constitution and Wisdom. I will be using Charisma to do all melee attacks so Strength was total dump stat (11... which is not terrible for a dump stat, I know).
What are the best ways I can mitigate damage and try to turn him into a tankier version of a Warlock? Are there feats I should look at for the 4th level upgrade? I will get a second attack at 5th level if I follow this progression. I can't legally pick up Paladin (Strength is too low), but I'm not sure that I would want to if I could... the harm to Dexterity is much worse than the gain for quite some time. If auras make enough difference, I could be persuaded to look further and just continue to use Mage Armor until I could find something better than a 20 AC (and could then swap out the Invocation for better damage or improved pact weapon.
Any thoughts? Comments? If multiclassing is the only way to do this, I'm open, but would prefer well reasoned arguments to state the case. I'm also not looking for a "Level 20 Optimized Build", this is going from the ground up... not the top down... we'll probably be lucky to make it to level 10...
Best thing I would suggest is what I did for awhile with my Hexblade. Pick up a multiclass in Bard or Sorcerer and select Shield as one of your know spells. This way if you are about to get hit by something hard then you can cast it as a reaction, with one of the Bard's or Sorcerer's level 1 spell slots, granting you +5 AC till your next turn. You could also wield Staff of Defense but you would then have to decide to either what hand to world it.
Shadow Monk (or any monk) is not a tank for sure, but they are still going to do a lot of damage, and they don't really need a ranged attack with their insane mobility. If they have a few daggers on hand they should be covered.
At lower levels taking Fiendish Vigor will help you tank - cast it outside of combat and its 8 temp HP (since you can recast until you get a max roll) to start each day, refresh as needed.
You might also consider Armor of Agathys plus a Breastplate or Scale Mail instead of mage armor. That would give you AC 18 (and no need to pump DEX to 20) plus temp hitpoints and extra damage output.
Once you get your pact weapon you can switch to a 2 handed weapon and look at one or more of Sentinel, Pole Arm Master, and Great Weapon Master feats for additional damage and tanking. That is going to mean giving up your shield though.
Your group may need to focus on disabling and debilitating enemies to sink their damage, rather than tanking. The shadow monk has darkness, silence, and the ability to strike across a wide area of the battle field, and should be stunning as much as possible. The bard's spells are going to be control oriented as well.
If you decide to multi class you will delay getting your extra attack, in that case using Booming Blade makes a lot of sense as a way to boost damage at 5th character level (at 5th level you get an extra 1d8 damage added to the attack, and then still more damage if they move after).
Edit - and, with no healer, your group is going to want to take lots of short rests, which is great for you recovering spell slots and the monk recovering ki points, so you should both be using those up aggressively.
Unfortunately temp HP don’t stack. So Fiendish Vigor or Armor of Agathys will be great, but both will be a waste.
I’d take Feindish Vigor until you hit 5th level. Then I’d drop that for something else and pick up Armor of Agathys which will give you 15 temp HP and will also do 15 HP of cold damage to any opponents who hit you until those temp HP are gone.
Professional computer geek
Booming Blade is also helpful for CC since it will cause additional damage if they move away from you. So just be aware of your positioning.
On thing you can also do, if the DM let's you is get a hireling. Our party hired a Barbarian for a while, after our tank left, eventually my Warlock got strong enough to survive as a tank in most situations so we stopped hiring him. Though eventually I retired her and brought in a Forge Cleric I've been working on to do a better job tanking since we were getting to face much tougher creatures.
Oh and I would also recommend picking up the Tome of Levistus invocation as a nice Oh Shit! button. It has helped me survive a few potentially fatal attacks.
Tomb of Levistus
Prerequisite: 5th level
As a reaction when you take damage, you can entomb yourself in ice, which melts away at the end of your next turn. You gain 10 temporary hit points per warlock level, which take as much of the triggering damage as possible. Immediately after you take the damage, you gain vulnerability to fire damage, your speed is reduced to 0, and you are incapacitated. These effects, including any remaining temporary hit points, all end when the ice melts.
Once you use this invocation, you can’t use it again until you finish a short or long rest.
Is the Shield spell better than picking up Shield Mastery at 4th level? As I have 18 in both Dex and Cha, I can afford to pick up a feat... don't get me wrong, I would love to go straight to 20 on Charisma, but it doesn't help out my ability to deal with AoE damage.
Tomb of Levistus is an interesting option. I would have to take it at the expense of my capability of picking up a second attack for two more levels. When I can pick up my next Cantrip, I'll take a look at Booming Blade. Definitely a threatening spell for movement... and accomplishes what Sentinel can to some degree, though limiting to a single attack per round instead of two.
I need something like Zephyr Strike for Warlocks. Bonus action to cast, movement doesn't provoke opportunity attacks, and add an additional 1d8 force damage at some point in the next minute which triggers additional movement. This would allow me to move in combat, costs me a spell slot to trigger, the damage doesn't scale with level, but still allows additional damage. This way I could engage in melee but when needed get out of melee range with multiple opponents.
The Shield spell is a +5 to your AC for one round. Shield Mastery let's you shove with a shield and also helps you with Dex saves. They're different and which one is better is situational.
Professional computer geek
If you are playing the tank you want some more defensive abilities, plus if you do pick up Booming Blade you would be limited to one attack per turn anyway.
The Shield spell gives you a extra boost of AC while the Shield Mastery feat will allow you to add your shield's AC bonus to your DEX saving throws, as well as using your reaction to take no damage on a DC save. It mostly comes down to what are you going to face more, spell caster or weapon fighters.
With my current AC of 19, if something is going to hit me at my current level, it's probably going to be a natural 20 half the time, which is scary enough... hopefully I can just be nimble and out of the way for most attacks, but I am concerned about things like Fireball and Breath Weapon type stuff...
Sure but once you get to a higher level monsters begin to have more bonuses to their attack. My level 8 Forge Cleric with a AC 23 still gets hit 25%-35% of the time. Getting Shield Mastery at level 4 for you feat is good, but I still recommend picking up a class in Bard or Sorcerer after that for the Shield spell uses.
Another thing you could do is ask the DM for some homebrew magic items to help with your survivability, like a ring with Shield charges like Staff of Defense.
My DM used to hit me without rolling natural 20's when I had an AC of 18 or 19 plus the Shield spell! It was brutal when he did that to me and I was dodging instead of attacking too.
Professional computer geek
Paladin/Warlock is a pretty damn good way to 'tank', especially at higher levels if you pick your abilities right. You really dont need a high dex, as a breastplate will free up your invocation and get you near the same AC. Half plate is the same. Get medium armor master and suddenly its like you're wearing plate without the disadvantage to stealth. This can all be done without a paladin.
Getting a paladin can be well worth it. My own Hexblade was blessed by the roll gods (his lowest score was a 12 and the highest 18, so a 20 cha right off the bat.) So I can get him the paladin side. Mix that with Oath of the Ancients (rethemed a bit due to the characters oath to his patron to hunt sentient undead and remake the dead religion) and he'll be a Lich's worst nightmare (mage hunter feat ftw.) With seven levels in OotA he'll have resistance to all spell damage and a plus +5 from his aura of protection to all saving throws.
It's not about whether I need or don't need Dexterity (or other stats), the game has already started and my stats are locked in.
I will mention that with a high DEX and shield mastery you will be you will be pretty resilient against DEX DC attacks.
I also created a hexblade intending to be a striker type and was forced by circumstances into being a tank. Took the Fiendish Vigor invocation which allows me to cast false live (d4+4 temp hp) with no slot cost. Talked the party into combining resources so I could afford half plate and shield. Giving me a respectable AC of 19. Don't use Hex, use Blur to force attacks against you to be rolled at Disadvantage. It is surprisingly hard to roll a 19 at disadvantage, I don't get hit too much. My biggest challenge has been convincing opponents to keep attacking me instead of my easier to hit comrades.
Blur... there we go!!! Shield Master feat with Blur should cover enough of my extreme cases to go more confidently into melee range to prevent the healer from getting swamped! I’ll keep my Mage Armor, though... thank you. I can always add magic items to get me over 20 AC, over time. Will probably need to pick up War Caster later on as well... but survivability first!
You don't need Warcaster if you have Improved Pact Blade invocation. Also consider Mirror Image instead of Blur because it does not require Concentration. That would free up your concentration to use Hex which adds a huge amount of damage with 1d6 per attack (assuming you take the invocation for 2 attacks) or per each EB roll.
Warcaster's best benefit for a front line caster is the advantage on concentration saves. Mirror image is nice, and have considered doing exactly what knighthawk recommends on non-boss fights. When you truly don't want to get hit, however, Blur is probably the best option. If you really, really don't want to get hit try blur and mirror image!
Improved Pact Blade is definitely a thing... but not until later. 5th level will see the 2 Attack option chosen. I still need to add in Agonizing Blast and Lifedrinker... so, yeah, somewhere that one will factor in. And Mirror Image and Blur will probably never be cast together. That's a lot of Action economy to give away to not be hit. I'm ok with just imposing disadvantage when needed and being able to use the shield and my super high dex saves. I also have approval for the rebranded Zephyr's Strike which prevents attack of opportunity, but I can also just disengage if I'm trying to go that route, so I probably won't learn it. Not sold on the Mirror Image. Sure, it isn't a concentration, but it does not impose disadvantage. I'll mostly be using that if I'm being targeted by multiple opponents anyway and I would rather have everything attacking be at disadvantage than have the chance that they hit three duplicates that just disappear. I'll run some tests though just to make sure I'm not looking at that wrong-headed...
To each his own. I usually go for Resilient (Constitution) before Warcaster. Unless I am playing a Sorcerer, of course.