Monstrous Compendium Vol. 1: Spelljammer Creatures
Frozen Sick
D&D Beyond Basic Rules
Basic Rules (2014)
Sign in to view your library & saved favorites.
Sign in- Marketplace
Monstrous Compendium Vol. 1: Spelljammer CreaturesFrozen SickD&D Beyond Basic RulesBasic Rules (2014)Sign in to view your library & saved favorites.
Sign in
I’ve always liked a good sword swinging warlock but I never can come up with a fun design for one that isn’t just ‘walk up and hit it’ so I’m wondering what my patron loving nerd friends use for there characters.
Ps. Sorry if I’ve made any spelling/grammar mistakes.
I have given up on trying to do this build. If you walk up and swing, something will swing back and slice you in half. If you M/C or do something else to counter, you fall behind on the magic part.
I have found that it is nicer to just either do a mage or do a melee and not combine the two.
Fundamentally, all any melee character does is "walk up and hit it".
Still, warlocks have a lot of options to make things more interesting.
Archfey is a major one -- misty step gives you a lot of options for tactical positioning, penetrating the enemy front line, etc.
There's also a lot of spells that are useful in melee combat. Not just the obvious ones like armor of agathys, but zone control spells like hunger of Hadar and Darkness (coupled with an invocation).
You also have the option of eschewing blade pact and building around True strike -- you only get one attack per round, but can add on the cantrip-boosting invocations. (Probably. There are some people who don't think this is the case. I am uninterested in recapitulating the arguments about it here, but you need to check with your DM to see what they think.)
There's also weapon masteries (obtained either by multiclassing or taking a feat) and the weapon style feats to play with.
You're still mostly walking (or teleporting) up and hitting it, but you've got more variety than fighters do.
The above options are basically in agreement with my point and giving up due to he cost of trying to get buffed.
Archfey is a major one... But If you don't want to have this a patron then this is not viable. Cost of this solution is limiting who can be your patron and the bonus spells/level attributes available.
There's also a lot of spells that are useful in melee combat.....Agreed, in theory that is great advice. It works on paper until you get to the table. You only have 2 spells you can cast (until 11th level). I tried this, and being limited to 2 spells made it all about buffing and that worked great for up to an hour with Hex, but 3 spells were mentioned above, add in Hex that is 4 spells, you get 1/2 (just looking up to 1st level spells) of them. Depending on the DM, but there is probably a good chance to have 2 combats between rests so you either blow your spells at the 1st and hope you rest before a 2nd or hold back and anticipate more combat later in the day. The end result you are caught short of spells and take a lot of damage. Cost is not enough buff spells or you forego melee boosting invocations.
You also have the option of eschewing blade pact and building around True strike. This is something to try, but now you need a decent Strength or Dexterity as no CHA bonus. Cost is now you need several good ability rolls.
You loose out on types of damage (the Pact weapon to deal Necrotic, Psychic, or Radiant damage) which is a way to give more then other melee types and isn't that one of the draws? Cost is your attacks are like the melee types
There's also weapon masteries (obtained either by multiclassing or taking a feat) Taking multiclassing delays both when you get multiple attacks and your magic. No extra attacks until 6th level and the 3rd attack is also delayed. Instead of getting a 3rd spell at 11th, you need to wait until you are 12th or 13th. Using a feat means you are boosting Strength or Dexterity, as you are limited to ASI chances, do you want to waste a feat on weapon mastery or as M/C delay getting magic? Cost is delays for a lot of stuff which puts you behind the curve.
Fundamentally, all any melee character does is "walk up and hit it". And yes your PC does that, but because this is usually a you go I go type of situation, you walk up and hit, they return the swing and do as much or more then you, but they can absorb your hits better then you can absorb their hits.
You're still mostly walking (or teleporting) up and hitting it, but you've got more variety than fighters do. On the table I do not agree with that last half of your statement. It is also a good theory statement but is lacking on the table.
Yes you are hitting the target, but you are not killing the target in one shot, therefore it can return a swing. As mentioned, you can't trade shots, you are not strong enough nor probably as well armored. Does the variety you reference really matter? The variety you mention is an attempt to be similar, so you can survive to fight again. the melee target has not the variety because it has no need for it. A warlock uses all of the tools available to win, this battle, but if there is a 2nd target/battle, the chances of winning dramatically decrease. The melee target does not experience a sharp decrease of chance.
This is why I say the cost of trying to get a warlock to be 1/2 mage & 1/2 melee is too high and results in dissatisfaction of both mage and melee abilities. I understand balance, but trying to fix one falls short of the one you want to fix and guts the other one leaving no balance at all.
I think the point of a bladelock is versatility. Yes you have melee options, but even then you have access to eldritch blast, which even without invocations is still alright.
Personally, i think I have made a good hybrid with mine:
Eldritch Mind, Agonizing Blast, Pact of the Blade, One with the Shadows, Thirsting Blade, Repelling Blast, Pact of the Chain, Devouring Blade, Witch’s Sight, Lessons of the First Ones (Tough)
As for the level delay when you multiclass dip (not if, I’ll admit), while I see your logic, it’s not like you don’t get anything out of it. Fighter’s getting a fighting style opened up me getting to use a Rapier, and Second wind isn’t nothing. Plus the boost to Con saving throws built in is great! As for Paladins, those extra spell slots are huge for casting hex, and again Lay on Hands isn’t bad.
Right; that's something I forgot to mention: Hex is a fun trap. It's adequate, but holding concentration on it locks you out of more interesting, and frequently more powerful, spells.
Anyway, the point isn't that you cast all these spells. You use spells when they're suitable to the situation. You're a melee combatant; your primary action is to stab people. With that priority, the warlock's small slot supply can be sufficient.
True strike literally uses your casting stat. Anyway, you need to put something in Dex or Str for defense.
Which is fine most of the time, and True strike, again, lets you change that.
No, the variety I mentioned is because the OP wanted more interesting options.
As front-line combatants, Warlocks are still strikers, not tanks. If you're the only one up there, you've got a problem. But they are absolutely survivable.
You don't have to want to play them, but there are plenty of people who do.
But I do want to play them, it just doesn't work. Too many sacrifices and the resulting end is useless and not even a playable character doing all the stuff ones tries to make it work.
I do get the point about how if you focus on melee then you’ll fall short in the spell front and vice versa. so my thought is what about shillelagh as an alternative to true strike?
Sure it works. I have a viable bladelock playing in my game right now. She was viable even under 2014 rules (without hexblade). It's a much easier balancing act now.
With a warlock, you probably won't fall short as a caster, except in that you'll be a weaker Eldritch Blaster. Which is fine -- you have power word stab instead.
The ISO standard warlock uses EB for primary offense, judiciously mixing in real spells for maximum effect. Bladepact warlock does the same, only using weapon attacks instead of EB.
As for Shillelagh, it doesn't have much merit IMO, except for the particular edge case of wanting to do light weapon fighting without bringing your dex up. It's not an attack cantrip itself, so it doesn't benefit from all the invocations. If you're not using multiple weapons, blade pact gets you the same primary advantages without limiting your weapon choices, and those choices let you bring up your damage dice without spending a bonus action on it.
That said, if it fits your character vision, it'll probably be playable, but you're definitely giving up capability for chrome there.
I believe you believe what you are saying but I do not believe. Is the patron either a fiend or a GOO? (limited to PHB 2024 book) I just am not seeing how to actually make it work. Forcing multiclass and/or spending feats is the issue about ending up with something not workable.
Can I se the character? I am just not sure how to create it and I have tried so hard and had multiple in game failures.
A viable mage that can also get in there and survive several rounds of melee fighting. I just do not believe that simple end goal is possible.
Archfey, as it happens.
Nope; it's set as private.
There's nothing special going on.
What are the parameters of "viable"/"workable"? The character functions in the campaign, and the player is enjoying themself. Would that be the case in an optimized meat-grinder campaign? Maybe, and highly unlikely. But I'm not running that game.
parameters of "viable"/"workable"
Mage wise, it has available spell slots to cast. Melee wise, it is not rolling death saves when everyone else has not even lost half HPs, and was not the primary fighter during combat.
If archfey is the only patron/way, then that is not a workable character.
Who said it was the only way? I just said this character was Archfey. She's not Archfey to be effective; she's Archfey because she made a deal with an Archfey, and she's effective enough. And has, to the best of my recollection, never made a death save.
As for "has available spells to cast", if you don't think melee warlocks have available slots, you don't think any warlocks have available slots.