I currently am a level 3 fiend tome pact Teifling warlock (Dex 14, Con 15, Cha 17) and wanted some advice, suggestions on how to progress.
This is my first time playing any tabletop with a fairly new group (though I a video gamer and love fantasy/RPG genre so more or less familiar with concepts, if not specific mechanics of D&D). We're expected to get to around level 5 by the end of this campaign (Phendelver), I hope to continue playing and continue using him but we'll see where we get when we get there.
Looking into builds and other classes I am pretty impressed with the Sorcerer's Font of Magic and Metamagics, (2x EBs a turn? YES!) and had considered grabbing 3 points to get there. I do know that for the MOST optimization, many people do the reverse and go Sorcerer with 3 Lv dip in warlock but I do like the Warlock better and though I try to optimize a build I'm not a heavy min/maxer.
I just got the Staff of Defense and I know that you can't use spells that you don't have in your spell list so to fully utilize it, so the dip in Sorcerer only became more important to me.
That being said, for only 3 sorcerer points (and for the Staff of Defense full benefits) is it really worth the dip? If I do go to 20 the only real con is that I would be missing out is 1x ASI and the capstone but the DM is fair with short rests BUT taking sorcerer would grant me the 3 sorc points, metamagic, font of magic, more cantrips (I took shillelagh with tome and plan on getting greenflame for the times that I get stuck in melee, which is more often than I would like, along with some utility cantrips), more spells variety and spell slots - which is also appealing to me, even if they're low level, not to mention using the Staff to full potential.
OR are the 3 sorc points that insignificant and it is THAT much more vital to go main sorcerer instead? And if I were to dip, should I dip next level or should I hold it off one more time in order to get the ASI and the CON+ & CHA+ modifiers that would come with it. Note that it would be close to the end, if not the end of the campaign so whatever I pick, the other choice will be hardly used for this campaign.. but plan for the future right?
THAT being said, I do have another question, before I even started playing and I looked into the warlock and all that. I know some people like to be 'surprised' with each level up and find out what they unlock as they unlock it, but not me ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
So I originally planned to take Finger of Death and True Polymorph for the respective Mystic Arcanums, as I noticed that FoD is one of the few summons that says the summon is PERMANENTLY under your control and then use True Polymorph to permanently turn that zombie into a T Rex.... but then after further reading, you can only polymorph something into another form matching their CR. I am aware that FoD grants a perma - zombie cuz zombies are weak as hell and it's balanced but not being able to turn it into ANYTHING stronger (even if I can't get a perma T rex pet) is a little of a downer. Everything that I've found only only talks about morphing your team mates with their class level instead of CR but I don't plan on Perma morphing anyone other than my zombie (I don't plan on interacting with anyone for a full hour, and I doubt my team would want fully become something else) and plan on getting Sculptor of Flesh for a non-permanent polymorph anyway... So is nothing possible or should I just get Psychic Scream or Power word: Kill instead?
You can't go wrong with any 4+ warlock/4+ sorcerer combination. The sorcerer bigger amount of spell slot and metamagic + the warlock EB cantrip and AB invocation and short rest spell slots make your a caster nova. The combination of x2 EB+hex is very strong and break normal combat if use it to much unless your table full of wargamers, normal people gonna feel like sidecharacter in combat compared the destruction you deal so use it with care.
as for the zombie into trex RAW it impossible if polymorph din't have the CR limit people could simply true polymorph there minion into the endboss at that point the PC don't have a reason to do anything anymore.
Quickened EB was the very first reason that made me want to go sorcerer in the first place... but 4/4? Is the extra 1 sorc point and ASI worth not getting the 9th level Mystic Arcanum (Either True Poly, Psychic Scream or possibly even Power word: Kill -- though I heard that it isn't that good). Granted that I can only cast 1x Quickened spell unless I exchange a spell into another sorc point with Font, which is fine also. (I am thinking Twinned spell for the second, or an extended duration for hex if I'm REALLY lazy).
Yea I understand that I cannot turn a Zombie into a T rex.. but RAW, is there ANY way to turn it into ANYTHING stronger at all.. Even 1 or 1/2 CR? Making the zombie into any worthwhile summon?
For now, definitely take 4th level as a Warlock. Increasing 2 scores to give a +1 to each is hard to beat, especially when one of them is your class’s primary ability score.
Even though it’s not flashy, consider staying a Warlock to get Foresight as your 9th level Mystic Arcanum. That’s a subtle, but incredibly powerful spell and it’s duration is 8 hours.
For now, definitely take 4th level as a Warlock. Increasing 2 scores to give a +1 to each is hard to beat, especially when one of them is your class’s primary ability score.
Even though it’s not flashy, consider staying a Warlock to get Foresight as your 9th level Mystic Arcanum. That’s a subtle, but incredibly powerful spell and it’s duration is 8 hours.
Tim. Thanks for the advice on taking the ASI first and thanks for the 9th MA suggestion but to be honest, I only get one level 9th spell and though it doesn't need to be world-ending but I can easily gain advantage with my familiar every turn for free and use blur or darkness for the disadvantage.
after 5th level, what's recommended for when to take any more levels in Sorcerer? Which warlock levels should I urgently try to get or when does it cool down a bit so I can then take the remaining (or partial) sorcery dips?
I've also been reading that a lot of 'crazy' builds actually main sorcerer and only 1-3 dip into warlock for their invocation (aspect of the moon is a plus too) and short rest spell recovery in order to supercharge a sorcerer's sorcery points. I really want to 'main' warlock and so don't want to go majority into sorcerer but especially since my plans for a perma-pet T Rex has been foiled I'm a bit underwhelmed that warlocks only get one of each spell of 6 - 9, via Mystic Arcanums, and a limited selection at that.
I was now thinking to go at least 14 into warlock to get Hurl through Hell and take a few more into Sorcerer then I had originally planned. This will give me up to level 3 spells and 6 max sorcery points instead of 3. I can also take Haste and Slow as a spell instead of wasting a precious invocation slot (ALSO it bothers me that 3rd level Slow uses your warlock pact slot, which can be as high as 5th level even if you have an available 3rd level slot from another class -- every other class allows spell slot swapping -- I understand that it's not a real 'spell' but an invocation but as a non-scaled spell with limited spell slots, I found that to be irksome so thats a double plus for taking it with a higher sorc level).
Though please be aware that this is my first time every playing D&D so I don't know how spells scale at higher level.. I don't know how valuable having the extra spell slots and varied spell levels is compared to even the ONE 8th and 9th level spell that the warlock would be getting if it would get all the Mystic Arcanums, so please enlighten me..
All that being said, I am really not impressed with most of the Sorcerer bloodline features and though the draconic resilience at level 1 sorc is useful for the few extra hp and +3 unarmored bonus none of the rest (in this subclass or the others) really entices me for subclass features alone, the only reason I would take more sorcerer dips would be for the extra sorcery points and extra spell levels and slots, which does have it's merits regardless........
But if I can convince my DM to allow this awesome homebrewed subclass created by Joshua Franklin, the 'Experimental Origin.
At level one, I get an additional 2 sorcery points and learn a metamagic. At 6th level, I learn a new spell that doesn't count against my spells known (and after finishing a short rest I can exchange that spell for another for 3 sorcery points). 14th level offers probably the best subclass feature -- you can enhance any metamagic that you know into a metametamagic, I'm only listing quickened spell because this was the reason that got me thinking of Sorcerer in the first place -- "If you use Quickened spell on a cantrip, it costs 0 sorcery points. If you use Quicken Spell on a 1st or 2nd level spell, it only costs 1 sorcery point"..
Holy! Spamming Eldritch Blast is a FREE BONUS ACTION EVERY TURN! Like I said, I don't even know if I want to go this far into sorcerer and if I do, I wouldn't even need all these extra sorcerer points in the first place!!
Sooooo all in all, with our without the homebrewed subclass is it worth it to go more into sorcerer than I would've wanted? With everything said above, how far is it worth going? Taking note what I said about sorcerer 3rd level spells and the earliest they can learn it would be at level 5, how far should I go into it and at which intervals so I can get the vital stuff for each respective class at appropriate times.
I know I'm asking a lot of things and most are subject to opinions and playstyles but thank you for all of your help, guidance, and suggestions.
The link for the sorcerer subclass along with 3 others (Archfey, Fiend and Rage Origins)
I currently am a level 3 fiend tome pact Teifling warlock (Dex 14, Con 15, Cha 17) and wanted some advice, suggestions on how to progress.
This is my first time playing any tabletop with a fairly new group (though I a video gamer and love fantasy/RPG genre so more or less familiar with concepts, if not specific mechanics of D&D). We're expected to get to around level 5 by the end of this campaign (Phendelver), I hope to continue playing and continue using him but we'll see where we get when we get there.
Looking into builds and other classes I am pretty impressed with the Sorcerer's Font of Magic and Metamagics, (2x EBs a turn? YES!) and had considered grabbing 3 points to get there. I do know that for the MOST optimization, many people do the reverse and go Sorcerer with 3 Lv dip in warlock but I do like the Warlock better and though I try to optimize a build I'm not a heavy min/maxer.
I just got the Staff of Defense and I know that you can't use spells that you don't have in your spell list so to fully utilize it, so the dip in Sorcerer only became more important to me.
That being said, for only 3 sorcerer points (and for the Staff of Defense full benefits) is it really worth the dip? If I do go to 20 the only real con is that I would be missing out is 1x ASI and the capstone but the DM is fair with short rests BUT taking sorcerer would grant me the 3 sorc points, metamagic, font of magic, more cantrips (I took shillelagh with tome and plan on getting greenflame for the times that I get stuck in melee, which is more often than I would like, along with some utility cantrips), more spells variety and spell slots - which is also appealing to me, even if they're low level, not to mention using the Staff to full potential.
OR are the 3 sorc points that insignificant and it is THAT much more vital to go main sorcerer instead? And if I were to dip, should I dip next level or should I hold it off one more time in order to get the ASI and the CON+ & CHA+ modifiers that would come with it. Note that it would be close to the end, if not the end of the campaign so whatever I pick, the other choice will be hardly used for this campaign.. but plan for the future right?
THAT being said, I do have another question, before I even started playing and I looked into the warlock and all that. I know some people like to be 'surprised' with each level up and find out what they unlock as they unlock it, but not me ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
So I originally planned to take Finger of Death and True Polymorph for the respective Mystic Arcanums, as I noticed that FoD is one of the few summons that says the summon is PERMANENTLY under your control and then use True Polymorph to permanently turn that zombie into a T Rex.... but then after further reading, you can only polymorph something into another form matching their CR. I am aware that FoD grants a perma - zombie cuz zombies are weak as hell and it's balanced but not being able to turn it into ANYTHING stronger (even if I can't get a perma T rex pet) is a little of a downer. Everything that I've found only only talks about morphing your team mates with their class level instead of CR but I don't plan on Perma morphing anyone other than my zombie (I don't plan on interacting with anyone for a full hour, and I doubt my team would want fully become something else) and plan on getting Sculptor of Flesh for a non-permanent polymorph anyway... So is nothing possible or should I just get Psychic Scream or Power word: Kill instead?
Thanks in advance for your help!
You can't go wrong with any 4+ warlock/4+ sorcerer combination. The sorcerer bigger amount of spell slot and metamagic + the warlock EB cantrip and AB invocation and short rest spell slots make your a caster nova. The combination of x2 EB+hex is very strong and break normal combat if use it to much unless your table full of wargamers, normal people gonna feel like sidecharacter in combat compared the destruction you deal so use it with care.
as for the zombie into trex RAW it impossible if polymorph din't have the CR limit people could simply true polymorph there minion into the endboss at that point the PC don't have a reason to do anything anymore.
Nox - Adult Oblex - The Trials
Jartrin Ephok - Dragonborn - Zanoliv
Bunol - Grim Angel - The Floating Lands of Goriate
Quickened EB was the very first reason that made me want to go sorcerer in the first place... but 4/4? Is the extra 1 sorc point and ASI worth not getting the 9th level Mystic Arcanum (Either True Poly, Psychic Scream or possibly even Power word: Kill -- though I heard that it isn't that good). Granted that I can only cast 1x Quickened spell unless I exchange a spell into another sorc point with Font, which is fine also. (I am thinking Twinned spell for the second, or an extended duration for hex if I'm REALLY lazy).
Yea I understand that I cannot turn a Zombie into a T rex.. but RAW, is there ANY way to turn it into ANYTHING stronger at all.. Even 1 or 1/2 CR? Making the zombie into any worthwhile summon?
For now, definitely take 4th level as a Warlock. Increasing 2 scores to give a +1 to each is hard to beat, especially when one of them is your class’s primary ability score.
Even though it’s not flashy, consider staying a Warlock to get Foresight as your 9th level Mystic Arcanum. That’s a subtle, but incredibly powerful spell and it’s duration is 8 hours.
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Tim. Thanks for the advice on taking the ASI first and thanks for the 9th MA suggestion but to be honest, I only get one level 9th spell and though it doesn't need to be world-ending but I can easily gain advantage with my familiar every turn for free and use blur or darkness for the disadvantage.
after 5th level, what's recommended for when to take any more levels in Sorcerer? Which warlock levels should I urgently try to get or when does it cool down a bit so I can then take the remaining (or partial) sorcery dips?
I've also been reading that a lot of 'crazy' builds actually main sorcerer and only 1-3 dip into warlock for their invocation (aspect of the moon is a plus too) and short rest spell recovery in order to supercharge a sorcerer's sorcery points. I really want to 'main' warlock and so don't want to go majority into sorcerer but especially since my plans for a perma-pet T Rex has been foiled I'm a bit underwhelmed that warlocks only get one of each spell of 6 - 9, via Mystic Arcanums, and a limited selection at that.
I was now thinking to go at least 14 into warlock to get Hurl through Hell and take a few more into Sorcerer then I had originally planned. This will give me up to level 3 spells and 6 max sorcery points instead of 3. I can also take Haste and Slow as a spell instead of wasting a precious invocation slot (ALSO it bothers me that 3rd level Slow uses your warlock pact slot, which can be as high as 5th level even if you have an available 3rd level slot from another class -- every other class allows spell slot swapping -- I understand that it's not a real 'spell' but an invocation but as a non-scaled spell with limited spell slots, I found that to be irksome so thats a double plus for taking it with a higher sorc level).
Though please be aware that this is my first time every playing D&D so I don't know how spells scale at higher level.. I don't know how valuable having the extra spell slots and varied spell levels is compared to even the ONE 8th and 9th level spell that the warlock would be getting if it would get all the Mystic Arcanums, so please enlighten me..
All that being said, I am really not impressed with most of the Sorcerer bloodline features and though the draconic resilience at level 1 sorc is useful for the few extra hp and +3 unarmored bonus none of the rest (in this subclass or the others) really entices me for subclass features alone, the only reason I would take more sorcerer dips would be for the extra sorcery points and extra spell levels and slots, which does have it's merits regardless........
But if I can convince my DM to allow this awesome homebrewed subclass created by Joshua Franklin, the 'Experimental Origin.
At level one, I get an additional 2 sorcery points and learn a metamagic. At 6th level, I learn a new spell that doesn't count against my spells known (and after finishing a short rest I can exchange that spell for another for 3 sorcery points). 14th level offers probably the best subclass feature -- you can enhance any metamagic that you know into a metametamagic, I'm only listing quickened spell because this was the reason that got me thinking of Sorcerer in the first place -- "If you use Quickened spell on a cantrip, it costs 0 sorcery points. If you use Quicken Spell on a 1st or 2nd level spell, it only costs 1 sorcery point"..
Holy! Spamming Eldritch Blast is a FREE BONUS ACTION EVERY TURN! Like I said, I don't even know if I want to go this far into sorcerer and if I do, I wouldn't even need all these extra sorcerer points in the first place!!
Sooooo all in all, with our without the homebrewed subclass is it worth it to go more into sorcerer than I would've wanted? With everything said above, how far is it worth going? Taking note what I said about sorcerer 3rd level spells and the earliest they can learn it would be at level 5, how far should I go into it and at which intervals so I can get the vital stuff for each respective class at appropriate times.
I know I'm asking a lot of things and most are subject to opinions and playstyles but thank you for all of your help, guidance, and suggestions.
The link for the sorcerer subclass along with 3 others (Archfey, Fiend and Rage Origins)
https://www.dmsguild.com/product/250669/Four-new-Sorcerer-Origins