Hey! I am currently a lv3 warlock and looking to take a few levels into sorcerer for a few reasons; quickened+EB, extra spells & slots, class features and usage for my Staff of Defense. Was originally going for 4 levels for decent sorcery points and the ASI but going through the invocation for slow I got a little annoyed that it takes up a spell slot and since it doesn't scale, at later levels, I'd be wasting a 5th spell slot for a 3rd spell that doesn't upcast.
That made me want to take 5 levels into sorcerer. This would also allow me to take haste as well as slow to use as I want (and not 1x per day) as well as a total of 9 spell slots 1-3.
The question being, if I were to take sorcerer for my 4th level then taking the 5th in warlock for the ASI (was originally going to wait until 5, after the first warlock ASI but getting too impatient for the Staff of defense, the extra cantrips and access to some of the sorcerer spells that I want)
So after that, how would you suggest taking the remaining 4 sorcerer levels, like any multiclassing, I'll be pushing off the other class's features
Generally I think level 5 is a big power spike so I would suggest waiting until level 6 to start your multi class. Since eldritch blast scales with character level and not Warlock level and because that will still be your primary damage dealer, it could be taken earlier. I think it's still worth sticking with warlock through 5 though. Doing so gets you level 3 spells and new options for invocations and a third invocation. That's how I would do it anyway.
Thank you Kendis, that was the original idea... and doing that, then just go straight for the next 5 levels of Sorcerer? I was originally going to do War4 then Sor5 to just get the sorc out of the way then go the rest warlock.
If I were to take sorcerer at level 4 (lock 3, sor1).. should then go lock 4, 5.. then sor till 5.. then the remaining warlocks or should I alternate? Or get sorc3 for metamagic?
I want to still stay at the top of my game as a PC
My thing about Warlock Sorcerer is to decide *which* you want to be.
Adding 1 level of Sorcerer to Warlock I think can be amazing and totally worth the lvl loss.
Sorcerer gets you 4! more cantrips, 2 lvl 1 spells, and 2 castings per long rest, plus the Sorcerer's Origin feature. Sorcerer and Cleric are amazing because 1 lvl gives you the subclass feature! Warlocks also have very few Cantrips, so the extra Cantrips are nice.
Personally I like to take 1st lvl in Sorcerer because then I get Con/Cha saves instead of Wis/Cha, but that's a personal preference. Taking a 2nd to get Font of Magic or a 3rd lvl for Metamagic starts eating into your Warlock levels hard.
On the flip side, taking 1 level in Warlock for a Sorcerer gives you a subclass, 2 cantrips, 2 spells known, and 1 Short Rest spell, which isn't bad. The 2nd lvl gives you 2 Evocations and a 2nd short rest spell, which makes a 2nd lvl in Warlock *very* attractive. Of course then you start asking do you want a 3rd lvl for Pact? Why not take a 4th for ASI?
The main problem is where do you stop. Warlock gives the Sorcerer access to Eldritch Blast and with 2 lvl a Charisma damage mod, plus 2 lvl 1 spells per short rest, so you have more spells per day. It's a nice trade off, but you don't want to take too much or it eats into your Sorcerer.
I'd say figure out if you want to be a Sorcerer with a dip in Warlock or a Warlock with a dip in Sorcerer. I had a Hexblade Pact of the Blade with my 1st lvl in Shadow Sorcerer and it was amazing. I thought about taking Sorcerer up to 3rd so I could Quicken Green Flame Blade, but honestly I think it was better to keep getting Warlock Features and Extra Attack.
Honestly, almost any perceived gain in power from those five levels of Sorcerer are mitigated by the delay in progression as a spellcaster. It is not just the number of spells but the spell level slot available to cast them. A warlock gets access to more fifth level spell slots earlier (3@11th) than other classes (3@18th) as well as some potentially game breaking evocations and serious upgrades from class features.
First off, thanks for all of your advice. Trying to answer everybody. I primarily am a warlock with a dip in sorcerer. I am a fiend lock and plan on taking some divine soul (for the cleric spells and the 'Favored by Gds' feature which would be a nice boost on failed rolls. Contemplating Storm Sorcery for the 10 foot escape after casting a spell.
Should have said this before but this is my first D&D game/character (though a fantasy video gamer & I've read a handful of forgotten realms books so familiar with the concept and stories). As I was first looking into how I should build a character I really liked quickened EB to really spam attacks (& another way to utilize the bonus action). I needed a minimum of 3 to get this feature but figure I'd go to lv4 in order to get 2 uses per sorc point replenish but also to get the ASI.
This build would have lost me 1 spell, 1 invocation and the 9th Mystic Arcanum.
I intended to continue this way & intended to take Sculpt the flesh (polymorph) & Mire the Mind (Slow) but got annoyed that they can be used once per day AND use a spell slot. Researching the sorcerer, I see that the sorcerer has both slow and haste at lv5/spell lv3 with two 3lv slots of it's own (four 1, three 2, two 3 for 9 slots in total -- which would be a lot easier to cast utility spells without regretting 'wasting' my precious Lock slots).
Combined with Twinned Spell, having both spells available would be great for party support!
Taking this build will lose the same as above (1 spell, 1 invo, 9 MA), also will only get 3 warlock spell slots instead of 4..... But going over everything, I would get 4 cantrips!! (Need the utility ones badly). 6 sorcerer spells I wouldn't otherwise have access to (Dragon's breath looks neat when I want my familiar to attack.. there are also a few others), obviously, metamagic and font of magic!!!! Lastly, RAW, I'd be able to fully utilize the Staff of Defense as you can't use spells granted by a magic item unless you can normally cast it -- though this one can be worked out with my DM.
My only and BIGGEST issue and downside with multiclassing in general, especially as a caster is what @LBSchooner mentioned is major progression in casting and Hurl Through Hell (I want that so badly), as well as the MAs..
So that's why I'm here, pleading for help on how to go about this to help figure this out. How to mitigate the pain of the slow progression, should I alternate levels? Should I just go for it? I'm really finding it hard to completely lose the sorcery classes but can you convince me?
I really like the warlock class but the sorcerer bonuses, at least some of the ones I mentioned would be really convenient to have..
THANK YOU ALL for all of your help, it's really been on my mind for too long.
Personally I like to take 1st lvl in Sorcerer because then I get Con/Cha saves instead of Wis/Cha, but that's a personal preference. Taking a 2nd to get Font of Magic or a 3rd lvl for Metamagic starts eating into your Warlock levels hard.
Con is definitely a good save to have but I already created the character as a warlock... and unless I want to 'cheat'.... Also, it would need to be after I multiclass.. as of yet, I am strictly warlock
I swapped over at 4, I think the EB second ray is more than enough power spike and I'm perfectly okay playing Cloud of Daggers and Repelling Blast for damage output with extra help from my Familiar and ability to deliver touch spells. Then I'm gonna swap back after sorc 4 to grab the third level warlock spells. Can't wait for my familiar to deliver a Dragon's Breath!
Is 4 warlock then 4 sorc the way to go? Should I alternate? 1 sorc, 1 lock, etc? Or is that going to prolong the 'usefulness' of going sorc in the first place
Either way I can figure if I want to take the 5th level when I get to it
Don't alternate; it just puts everything further off. Being L3 Warlock and L3 Sorcerer makes you a L6 character with NO third level spells and NO ASI/Feats. I recommend going to L5 as a Warlock for L3 spells and your third invocation, then considering MC into Sorcerer. Have a loose idea of your progression, but don't feel locked in to detailed planning more than a few levels ahead.
I've played a straight Hexblade/BladePact Warlock up through level 9. I wanted to MC into Sorcerer, but I just never did.
I'm currently playing a Warforged Envoy Hexblade/TomePact Warlock at level 5. With Agonizing Blast as my main single-target go-to, I'm not concerned with level 20 abilities. I will take my next level as a Shadow Sorcerer (for thematic reasons, not to coffeelock), but I will see where the game takes me before deciding what comes next.
I might work toward Warlock 17, Sorcerer 3. I might work toward Warlock 5, Sorcerer 15. I might work toward something else, with all the Rogue and Fighter archetypes open to me (14 Dex).
Im a Hexblade 5 looking at my options for Level 6 with Shadow Sorcerer (Thematic) being on the list, and War Wizard (narrative) or Battlemaster (current play style) all being considered options. Potentially even 1 level/2 level dip for the 3 in total that ive decided is reasonable, its just deciding what and when.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
Hey! I am currently a lv3 warlock and looking to take a few levels into sorcerer for a few reasons; quickened+EB, extra spells & slots, class features and usage for my Staff of Defense. Was originally going for 4 levels for decent sorcery points and the ASI but going through the invocation for slow I got a little annoyed that it takes up a spell slot and since it doesn't scale, at later levels, I'd be wasting a 5th spell slot for a 3rd spell that doesn't upcast.
That made me want to take 5 levels into sorcerer. This would also allow me to take haste as well as slow to use as I want (and not 1x per day) as well as a total of 9 spell slots 1-3.
The question being, if I were to take sorcerer for my 4th level then taking the 5th in warlock for the ASI (was originally going to wait until 5, after the first warlock ASI but getting too impatient for the Staff of defense, the extra cantrips and access to some of the sorcerer spells that I want)
So after that, how would you suggest taking the remaining 4 sorcerer levels, like any multiclassing, I'll be pushing off the other class's features
Generally I think level 5 is a big power spike so I would suggest waiting until level 6 to start your multi class. Since eldritch blast scales with character level and not Warlock level and because that will still be your primary damage dealer, it could be taken earlier. I think it's still worth sticking with warlock through 5 though. Doing so gets you level 3 spells and new options for invocations and a third invocation. That's how I would do it anyway.
Thank you Kendis, that was the original idea... and doing that, then just go straight for the next 5 levels of Sorcerer? I was originally going to do War4 then Sor5 to just get the sorc out of the way then go the rest warlock.
If I were to take sorcerer at level 4 (lock 3, sor1).. should then go lock 4, 5.. then sor till 5.. then the remaining warlocks or should I alternate? Or get sorc3 for metamagic?
I want to still stay at the top of my game as a PC
My thing about Warlock Sorcerer is to decide *which* you want to be.
Adding 1 level of Sorcerer to Warlock I think can be amazing and totally worth the lvl loss.
Sorcerer gets you 4! more cantrips, 2 lvl 1 spells, and 2 castings per long rest, plus the Sorcerer's Origin feature.
Sorcerer and Cleric are amazing because 1 lvl gives you the subclass feature! Warlocks also have very few Cantrips, so the extra Cantrips are nice.
Personally I like to take 1st lvl in Sorcerer because then I get Con/Cha saves instead of Wis/Cha, but that's a personal preference. Taking a 2nd to get Font of Magic or a 3rd lvl for Metamagic starts eating into your Warlock levels hard.
On the flip side, taking 1 level in Warlock for a Sorcerer gives you a subclass, 2 cantrips, 2 spells known, and 1 Short Rest spell, which isn't bad. The 2nd lvl gives you 2 Evocations and a 2nd short rest spell, which makes a 2nd lvl in Warlock *very* attractive. Of course then you start asking do you want a 3rd lvl for Pact? Why not take a 4th for ASI?
The main problem is where do you stop.
Warlock gives the Sorcerer access to Eldritch Blast and with 2 lvl a Charisma damage mod, plus 2 lvl 1 spells per short rest, so you have more spells per day. It's a nice trade off, but you don't want to take too much or it eats into your Sorcerer.
I'd say figure out if you want to be a Sorcerer with a dip in Warlock or a Warlock with a dip in Sorcerer. I had a Hexblade Pact of the Blade with my 1st lvl in Shadow Sorcerer and it was amazing. I thought about taking Sorcerer up to 3rd so I could Quicken Green Flame Blade, but honestly I think it was better to keep getting Warlock Features and Extra Attack.
What subclasses are you planning on taking?
Honestly, almost any perceived gain in power from those five levels of Sorcerer are mitigated by the delay in progression as a spellcaster. It is not just the number of spells but the spell level slot available to cast them. A warlock gets access to more fifth level spell slots earlier (3@11th) than other classes (3@18th) as well as some potentially game breaking evocations and serious upgrades from class features.
A serious dip into any class hurts that.
Abide.
First off, thanks for all of your advice. Trying to answer everybody. I primarily am a warlock with a dip in sorcerer. I am a fiend lock and plan on taking some divine soul (for the cleric spells and the 'Favored by Gds' feature which would be a nice boost on failed rolls. Contemplating Storm Sorcery for the 10 foot escape after casting a spell.
Should have said this before but this is my first D&D game/character (though a fantasy video gamer & I've read a handful of forgotten realms books so familiar with the concept and stories). As I was first looking into how I should build a character I really liked quickened EB to really spam attacks (& another way to utilize the bonus action). I needed a minimum of 3 to get this feature but figure I'd go to lv4 in order to get 2 uses per sorc point replenish but also to get the ASI.
This build would have lost me 1 spell, 1 invocation and the 9th Mystic Arcanum.
I intended to continue this way & intended to take Sculpt the flesh (polymorph) & Mire the Mind (Slow) but got annoyed that they can be used once per day AND use a spell slot. Researching the sorcerer, I see that the sorcerer has both slow and haste at lv5/spell lv3 with two 3lv slots of it's own (four 1, three 2, two 3 for 9 slots in total -- which would be a lot easier to cast utility spells without regretting 'wasting' my precious Lock slots).
Combined with Twinned Spell, having both spells available would be great for party support!
Taking this build will lose the same as above (1 spell, 1 invo, 9 MA), also will only get 3 warlock spell slots instead of 4..... But going over everything, I would get 4 cantrips!! (Need the utility ones badly). 6 sorcerer spells I wouldn't otherwise have access to (Dragon's breath looks neat when I want my familiar to attack.. there are also a few others), obviously, metamagic and font of magic!!!! Lastly, RAW, I'd be able to fully utilize the Staff of Defense as you can't use spells granted by a magic item unless you can normally cast it -- though this one can be worked out with my DM.
My only and BIGGEST issue and downside with multiclassing in general, especially as a caster is what @LBSchooner mentioned is major progression in casting and Hurl Through Hell (I want that so badly), as well as the MAs..
So that's why I'm here, pleading for help on how to go about this to help figure this out. How to mitigate the pain of the slow progression, should I alternate levels? Should I just go for it? I'm really finding it hard to completely lose the sorcery classes but can you convince me?
I really like the warlock class but the sorcerer bonuses, at least some of the ones I mentioned would be really convenient to have..
THANK YOU ALL for all of your help, it's really been on my mind for too long.
Con is definitely a good save to have but I already created the character as a warlock... and unless I want to 'cheat'.... Also, it would need to be after I multiclass.. as of yet, I am strictly warlock
I swapped over at 4, I think the EB second ray is more than enough power spike and I'm perfectly okay playing Cloud of Daggers and Repelling Blast for damage output with extra help from my Familiar and ability to deliver touch spells. Then I'm gonna swap back after sorc 4 to grab the third level warlock spells. Can't wait for my familiar to deliver a Dragon's Breath!
Is 4 warlock then 4 sorc the way to go? Should I alternate? 1 sorc, 1 lock, etc? Or is that going to prolong the 'usefulness' of going sorc in the first place
Either way I can figure if I want to take the 5th level when I get to it
Don't alternate; it just puts everything further off. Being L3 Warlock and L3 Sorcerer makes you a L6 character with NO third level spells and NO ASI/Feats. I recommend going to L5 as a Warlock for L3 spells and your third invocation, then considering MC into Sorcerer. Have a loose idea of your progression, but don't feel locked in to detailed planning more than a few levels ahead.
I've played a straight Hexblade/BladePact Warlock up through level 9. I wanted to MC into Sorcerer, but I just never did.
I'm currently playing a Warforged Envoy Hexblade/TomePact Warlock at level 5. With Agonizing Blast as my main single-target go-to, I'm not concerned with level 20 abilities. I will take my next level as a Shadow Sorcerer (for thematic reasons, not to coffeelock), but I will see where the game takes me before deciding what comes next.
I might work toward Warlock 17, Sorcerer 3.
I might work toward Warlock 5, Sorcerer 15.
I might work toward something else, with all the Rogue and Fighter archetypes open to me (14 Dex).
Im a Hexblade 5 looking at my options for Level 6 with Shadow Sorcerer (Thematic) being on the list, and War Wizard (narrative) or Battlemaster (current play style) all being considered options. Potentially even 1 level/2 level dip for the 3 in total that ive decided is reasonable, its just deciding what and when.