So has anyone found a compelling reason (besides damage) to use the spell? Does the disadvantage to Ability Checks (and not saving throws as our group initially thought) ever come up in your games?
Just looking to see how other games have used this spell. And I see it's absent from the Spells tab, a thread in Bugs says its non-SRD, so hopefully discussing it is still allowed?
The only time that I have really seen use for Hex was when me and my party decided to do a big pvp session. We all made new characters and I decided to make a cheesy three-way multiclass, of which gave me the opportunity to grab Hex. It was mainly useful in messing with the other players whenever they attempted to do a skill check that was important, like perception, or something that there character relied on like Athletics for grappling. Also useful because once they died the next threatening person gets the same treatment.
However outside of pvp I would guess its main use would be for a long term sort of combat, where your main focus is on stacking dots on a particular enemy.
its very useful especially if you have a grappler in the party, (because they are contesting athletics ability scores) or if the battle terrain is difficult enough that they have to make checks (ie jumping across ledges or something of that nature) or if the enemy is trying to persuade the town's guard into having you arrested. things like that.
If you have surprise select Dexterity when Hexing an enemy, rolling initiative is a dex ability check.
Edit: My bad, that's a 3.5e mechanic, as Alfrebaut pointed out, its doesn't work like that in 5e.
So yeah, that being the case, I have to agree the ability check disadvantage is highly situational and with many DM's you won't have much opportunity to use this (except against other players, which is also highly situational).
Technically, initiative is rolled for the surprise round also. The way surprise works in 5e, all that happens is that anyone surprised does not get to take actions while they are surprised. It is relevant for assassins, for instance.
The damage is nice and at higher levels the time scales up. So as a Warlock technically you could cast it, take a short rest, getting back the spell slot, and then you have Hex going. Extra dice count in a Crit, so it can be worth it for that. Also as said above the grappler combo is amazing. Honestly the downside for hex is early on it eats up that slot, it really should be a class feature (This would allow players to utilize Hex "X" times per day and still do their warlock thing), or the Warlock spells should have 1 more, scaled appropriately of course.
Well, the damage bonus is always good. The fact that it's a bonus action means Hex + Eldritch Blast/Green Flameblade on the same turn.
Hex (Strength) + Repelling Blast off the side of a wall (or into a body of water) makes climbing back up (or swimming out) a lot more difficult.
Strength/Dexterity vs the guy chasing after you/that you are chasing.
Constitution vs the inevitable bar room drinking contest for information.
Intelligence vs the cultist attempting to summon a demon, or the investigator trying to dig up information about you/your allies.
Wisdom is the probably most obvious, with Perception and Insight checks to help your party hide from a passing guard or to cover up your bluffing teammate.
Charisma is the least useful, as for the most part there's no real Charisma-based ability (outside of maybe something like a commander trying to rally his troops?)
These effects last for up to an hour at 1st level, 8 hours at 5th level, and 24 hours at 9th level. Meaning you can do this as a set up plan and benefit from it afterword (by 5th level you can cast the spell and take a short rest to get the slot back with 7 hours to spare). So you can set it up, get your spell slot back, and then raid the prison AND get back out before the guard even noticed you were there.
“It is a better world. A place where we are responsible for our actions, where we can be kind to one another because we want to and because it is the right thing to do instead of being frightened into behaving by the threat of divine punishment.” ― Oramis, Eldest by Christopher Paolini.
If you're talking strictly mechanics wise there's not "many" reasons to use it, but I've had some interesting interactions with a character playing a Witch (via Warlock) who would use Hex to make people trip over their own words. They even got a corrupt official to fumble enough Charisma checks to accidentally expose himself. It really depends on what kind of DM you have and how they use skill checks, or even just roleplay. If they let botched rolls on enemies result in benefits for the players then it's an extremely fun skill to use, but if the game comes down to "if(roll>=10) do this, else don't" then it probably won't matter much.
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It's time for this age of fire to end. We will reap the humanity from our foes and usher in an age of darkness.
“It is a better world. A place where we are responsible for our actions, where we can be kind to one another because we want to and because it is the right thing to do instead of being frightened into behaving by the threat of divine punishment.” ― Oramis, Eldest by Christopher Paolini.
Thank you all for the insight! I'm sorry to say I clearly wasn't being creative enough with the spell. The Grappler combo sounds intense, and I'm very tempted to make it an encounter to remember.
The idea of messing with Charisma checks, and the political ramifications of a conniving Warlock/Witch are equally as good. I appreciate the tips and tricks!
Anytime! I love the warlock, this is actually a conversation I have very often. I think everyone should use Hex often but the problem is you have two slots for so long, and if your group doesn't rest often you have one for a long time you basically end up with one slot for a while. This can make playing a Warlock difficult. Hence why many people I talk to agree it should get 3 slots sooner, and have one more to their max, or just have Hex as a class ability.
The other part of this that we discuss now and then is what can you actually apply the disadvantage to. Some GMs seem to allow skill checks such as persuasion and athletics, others don't because they are technically skill checks NOT ability checks. Since they are listed separately, and potentially have other non stat bonuses related they don't count for some people. which as a player wanting to use Hex isn't great but it also means it won't work against players with that kind of GM.
I like Hex because you can cast it long before an encounter. Thus regaining your Spellslot. Directly onto the target if you see it later or curse a locust or other easily killable insect/small animal and start the battle by killing it (Free action) to change the curse to the real enemy.
I've found Hex to be less useful at higher levels because of all the other Concentration spells and pact abilities 'locks get. But at lower levels it was indispensable.
For the damage, it's essentially Warlock's best spell offering outside of Eldritch Blast, comboing well with pretty much anything (getting a lot of use out of Hex + Thirsting Blade + Rogue multiclass for Sneak Attack and such).
For the disadvantage, eh. I haven't got much out of it. Grappling is the obvious one, but scrubbing their perception can be useful.
It'd be more valuable if it hit either saving throws or made it easier to persuade enemies somehow.
Depends what the house rule on deception is. My DM just has us roll Deception against a DC, so no real advantage there. But you have a point in a general sense.
I've used Hex(strength) as mentioned above with a grappler in the party and also against a giant that was climbing up a cliff face to try to reach the party. I slowed him down, giving us enough time to kill him before he reached us. I've never personally found a use for it with any other ability score. @Sloporion had some interesting RP options, though they do raise one question: Do people know when they're hexed? Could you hex a military commander and have him obliviously continue trying to rally his troops or would combat immediately break out?
@Sloporion had some interesting RP options, though they do raise one question: Do people know when they're hexed? Could you hex a military commander and have him obliviously continue trying to rally his troops or would combat immediately break out?
My first thought is, not necessarily... purely based on the text in the Charm Person spell: "When the spell ends, the creature knows it was charmed by you".
I'd argue that it's a similar effect; however, the creatures observing the target could make an Insight check (or a passive check) to notice that they are acting differently. Though in the case of the military commander, figuring out that he's not acting normal MIGHT just increase the demoralizing effect.
Now, they'll be able to notice the verbal and somatic components of Hex, so unless you were hidden/they were distracted, they might notice you casting a spell on them. In my opinion, the verbal and somatic components also apply to the transferring of the Hex after the target drops to 0 hit points.
“It is a better world. A place where we are responsible for our actions, where we can be kind to one another because we want to and because it is the right thing to do instead of being frightened into behaving by the threat of divine punishment.” ― Oramis, Eldest by Christopher Paolini.
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So has anyone found a compelling reason (besides damage) to use the spell? Does the disadvantage to Ability Checks (and not saving throws as our group initially thought) ever come up in your games?
Just looking to see how other games have used this spell. And I see it's absent from the Spells tab, a thread in Bugs says its non-SRD, so hopefully discussing it is still allowed?
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The only time that I have really seen use for Hex was when me and my party decided to do a big pvp session. We all made new characters and I decided to make a cheesy three-way multiclass, of which gave me the opportunity to grab Hex. It was mainly useful in messing with the other players whenever they attempted to do a skill check that was important, like perception, or something that there character relied on like Athletics for grappling. Also useful because once they died the next threatening person gets the same treatment.
However outside of pvp I would guess its main use would be for a long term sort of combat, where your main focus is on stacking dots on a particular enemy.
its very useful especially if you have a grappler in the party, (because they are contesting athletics ability scores) or if the battle terrain is difficult enough that they have to make checks (ie jumping across ledges or something of that nature) or if the enemy is trying to persuade the town's guard into having you arrested. things like that.
WHAT IT DO?
If you have surprise select Dexterity when Hexing an enemy, rolling initiative is a dex ability check.Edit: My bad, that's a 3.5e mechanic, as Alfrebaut pointed out, its doesn't work like that in 5e.
So yeah, that being the case, I have to agree the ability check disadvantage is highly situational and with many DM's you won't have much opportunity to use this (except against other players, which is also highly situational).
Technically, initiative is rolled for the surprise round also. The way surprise works in 5e, all that happens is that anyone surprised does not get to take actions while they are surprised. It is relevant for assassins, for instance.
The damage is nice and at higher levels the time scales up. So as a Warlock technically you could cast it, take a short rest, getting back the spell slot, and then you have Hex going. Extra dice count in a Crit, so it can be worth it for that. Also as said above the grappler combo is amazing. Honestly the downside for hex is early on it eats up that slot, it really should be a class feature (This would allow players to utilize Hex "X" times per day and still do their warlock thing), or the Warlock spells should have 1 more, scaled appropriately of course.
Also disadvantage on perception checks is a good choice.
Well, the damage bonus is always good. The fact that it's a bonus action means Hex + Eldritch Blast/Green Flameblade on the same turn.
Hex (Strength) + Repelling Blast off the side of a wall (or into a body of water) makes climbing back up (or swimming out) a lot more difficult.
Strength/Dexterity vs the guy chasing after you/that you are chasing.
Constitution vs the inevitable bar room drinking contest for information.
Intelligence vs the cultist attempting to summon a demon, or the investigator trying to dig up information about you/your allies.
Wisdom is the probably most obvious, with Perception and Insight checks to help your party hide from a passing guard or to cover up your bluffing teammate.
Charisma is the least useful, as for the most part there's no real Charisma-based ability (outside of maybe something like a commander trying to rally his troops?)
These effects last for up to an hour at 1st level, 8 hours at 5th level, and 24 hours at 9th level. Meaning you can do this as a set up plan and benefit from it afterword (by 5th level you can cast the spell and take a short rest to get the slot back with 7 hours to spare). So you can set it up, get your spell slot back, and then raid the prison AND get back out before the guard even noticed you were there.
Click Here to Download my Lancer Class w/ Dragoon and Legionnaire Archetypes via DM's Guild - Pay What You Want
Click Here to Download the Mind Flayer: Thoon Hulk converted from 4e via DM's Guild
“It is a better world. A place where we are responsible for our actions, where we can be kind to one another because we want to and because it is the right thing to do instead of being frightened into behaving by the threat of divine punishment.” ― Oramis, Eldest by Christopher Paolini.
If you're talking strictly mechanics wise there's not "many" reasons to use it, but I've had some interesting interactions with a character playing a Witch (via Warlock) who would use Hex to make people trip over their own words. They even got a corrupt official to fumble enough Charisma checks to accidentally expose himself. It really depends on what kind of DM you have and how they use skill checks, or even just roleplay. If they let botched rolls on enemies result in benefits for the players then it's an extremely fun skill to use, but if the game comes down to "if(roll>=10) do this, else don't" then it probably won't matter much.
It's time for this age of fire to end. We will reap the humanity from our foes and usher in an age of darkness.
Also, OP, you missed a perfectly good opportunity to name this "Let's Talk about Hex, Baby"
Click Here to Download my Lancer Class w/ Dragoon and Legionnaire Archetypes via DM's Guild - Pay What You Want
Click Here to Download the Mind Flayer: Thoon Hulk converted from 4e via DM's Guild
“It is a better world. A place where we are responsible for our actions, where we can be kind to one another because we want to and because it is the right thing to do instead of being frightened into behaving by the threat of divine punishment.” ― Oramis, Eldest by Christopher Paolini.
I have a good friend, and player who loves puns. I'm going to seat you next to him. Though I'm sure I'll be punished for my hubris.
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Thank you all for the insight! I'm sorry to say I clearly wasn't being creative enough with the spell. The Grappler combo sounds intense, and I'm very tempted to make it an encounter to remember.
The idea of messing with Charisma checks, and the political ramifications of a conniving Warlock/Witch are equally as good. I appreciate the tips and tricks!
Our Podcast
Our Twitter
Our #DND Games
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Anytime! I love the warlock, this is actually a conversation I have very often. I think everyone should use Hex often but the problem is you have two slots for so long, and if your group doesn't rest often you have one for a long time you basically end up with one slot for a while. This can make playing a Warlock difficult. Hence why many people I talk to agree it should get 3 slots sooner, and have one more to their max, or just have Hex as a class ability.
The other part of this that we discuss now and then is what can you actually apply the disadvantage to. Some GMs seem to allow skill checks such as persuasion and athletics, others don't because they are technically skill checks NOT ability checks. Since they are listed separately, and potentially have other non stat bonuses related they don't count for some people. which as a player wanting to use Hex isn't great but it also means it won't work against players with that kind of GM.
I like Hex because you can cast it long before an encounter. Thus regaining your Spellslot.
Directly onto the target if you see it later or curse a locust or other easily killable insect/small animal and start the battle by killing it (Free action) to change the curse to the real enemy.
I've found Hex to be less useful at higher levels because of all the other Concentration spells and pact abilities 'locks get. But at lower levels it was indispensable.
For the damage, it's essentially Warlock's best spell offering outside of Eldritch Blast, comboing well with pretty much anything (getting a lot of use out of Hex + Thirsting Blade + Rogue multiclass for Sneak Attack and such).
For the disadvantage, eh. I haven't got much out of it. Grappling is the obvious one, but scrubbing their perception can be useful.
It'd be more valuable if it hit either saving throws or made it easier to persuade enemies somehow.
Couldn't you hit "Wisdom" to then give disadvantage on Insight checks, making it easier to lie to a person?
It's time for this age of fire to end. We will reap the humanity from our foes and usher in an age of darkness.
Depends what the house rule on deception is. My DM just has us roll Deception against a DC, so no real advantage there. But you have a point in a general sense.
I've used Hex(strength) as mentioned above with a grappler in the party and also against a giant that was climbing up a cliff face to try to reach the party. I slowed him down, giving us enough time to kill him before he reached us. I've never personally found a use for it with any other ability score. @Sloporion had some interesting RP options, though they do raise one question: Do people know when they're hexed? Could you hex a military commander and have him obliviously continue trying to rally his troops or would combat immediately break out?
I'd argue that it's a similar effect; however, the creatures observing the target could make an Insight check (or a passive check) to notice that they are acting differently. Though in the case of the military commander, figuring out that he's not acting normal MIGHT just increase the demoralizing effect.
Now, they'll be able to notice the verbal and somatic components of Hex, so unless you were hidden/they were distracted, they might notice you casting a spell on them. In my opinion, the verbal and somatic components also apply to the transferring of the Hex after the target drops to 0 hit points.
Click Here to Download my Lancer Class w/ Dragoon and Legionnaire Archetypes via DM's Guild - Pay What You Want
Click Here to Download the Mind Flayer: Thoon Hulk converted from 4e via DM's Guild
“It is a better world. A place where we are responsible for our actions, where we can be kind to one another because we want to and because it is the right thing to do instead of being frightened into behaving by the threat of divine punishment.” ― Oramis, Eldest by Christopher Paolini.