So I'm new to dnd, and have been into it for the past half year. I'm about to start a camping, and I'm playing a Warlock. Why do they have so few spell slots, doesn't that kinda make them useless during a fight when they essentially run out of spells and have to do combat when strength is usually a dump stat for them? I'm just curious, and looking for opinions or explanations.
Here are few things you should remember while playing a warlock,
1- your spells slots recharge on a SHORT and a LONG rest so it's easy to get them back meaning you can cast spells more often than any caster if you take multiple short rests since most other classes need a long rest to regain their spell slots, in addition, spells you cast are always at the highest available level meaning your damage will always be high if the spells you took scale.
2- Depending on your build, Eldritch blast is arguably the strongest cantrip in the game dealing 1d10 force damage which is rare to find enemies resistant to and also the damage increases on certain levels (note: you can even take Agonizing blast invocation to add your charisma modifier to it)
3- Eldritch invocations gives you spells for free without needing spellslots and some can be cast at will meaning you always have them. Some invocations give you very interesting abilities that no other class can get like devil sight which allows you to see even in magical darkness.
4-- Always think ahead when building a warlock and make the style that fits you and your fantasy.
On the note that strength is their dump stat, people only do it if you are going caster type of build otherwise you can go pact of the blade and get a strength weapon if you want.
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Born under the watch of something from the furthest corners of the far realms.... It knows all.... it sees all... and it asks: "What is it that you want to see?"... and my answer is... ALL"
It helps if you don't think of Warlock as a traditional full caster but more of a magic ranger that also can get upper level spells.
1- Instead of a longbow or crossbow, they have Eldritch Blast. It's mostly superior to a longbow or crossbow in just about every way especially when you start customizing with invocations.
2- As has also been mentioned- Warlocks are short rest casters- so they can blow through their spells to be very "bursty" in what would be normally minor skirmishes and then an hour later they are back to full.
3- Their invocations give them alot of the flexibility that "normal" full casters must use their spell slots on. This flexibility from invocations evens out alot of the power differential by not having alot of spell slots.
Examples-
The wizard has to cast mage armor every morning with a level one slot usually- you can get it for free.
The wizard needs to run away in a crowd and burns a level 1 slot for Disguise Self- you can get it for free.
The wizard/druid has to use a slot to cast Daylight to dispel the darkness spell causing them to loose their quarry- you can see through magical darkness.
Druid's gotta burn a slot to talk to the animals- you can do it for free etc etc.
ALOT of the feeling of whether or not Warlock is underpowered can also come from a place of table habits. If your DM & Group are not allowing for short rests, this can severely limit a Warlock and make them feel very underpowered in comparison to traditional full casters. This is something to work with your table to resolve.
Enjoy! Warlock is 100% my favorite class at the moment for their lore, unique spellcasting and the massive flexibility of invocations.
Because we don't waste time with puny low level spell slots later on like other classes. We always go full power.
Also our spell slots regenerate after short rests (1 hour), not just long rests (8 hours).
Also also we have the Eldritch Blast cantrip and Invocations to buff it. That's our main damage source (unless we go melee with Pact of the Blade).
Speaking of Invocations, there are several ones that let you cast spells at will without using spell slots and other, stronger ones, that let you cast spells without using spell slots but once per long rest.
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I've never encountered a forum where I got this many "talking to a wall" impressions as this one...
Insist on your Short Rests. For one time it actually hurts the party to 'waste' time on a Short Rest (which many other classes also use to regenerate resources + everyone enjoys getting their HP back), there are tens of times where it benefits everyone. Unless you know you are on a strict time limit, you should go for a Short Rest when you're out of Spell Slots. This makes the Warlock way more viable, as we're getting more high level spell slots than other classes. We might not have as many 1st and 2nd level Spell Slots, but being able to throw 5th level Spell Slots around makes many Casters envious.
Since this makes our Spell casting very deliberate and calculated, lest we waste our precious Spell Slots, we have Eldritch Blast when we don't want to waste a spell on some minions.
Our Invocations make us very special, as it allows us to fully grow into the niche we chose to fulfill in our party. Instead of rgular class features, we simply choose which class features we want to have! And if we get tired of one, we can simply switch them out on a level up.
We're also tankier than the Sorcerer and Wizard, as we have a higher Hit Die and start with Light Armor Proficiency. Still not quite as tanky as a Cleric or Druid, but it could be worse.
My burnt and blackened heart loves Warlocks but is there any other class that is so dependent on 1 simple mechanic? Playing a Warlock is going to be the most rewarding at low levels as a caster if your DM allows for proper short rests.
Warlocks get limitations because the recover on a short rest, use d8 hit dice, have armor proficiency, and invocations are strong compared to wizards and sorcerers, who are almost entirely about spell casting.
Every class uses short rest mechanics for spending hit dice. Only rogues lack other short rest recovery abilities. Some classes have prominent short rest ability recharges like bard inspiration, druid wild shape, monk ki, and fighter action surge (as well as many subclasses).
Look at warlocks as a kind of a ranger that uses Eldrich Blast+agonizing blast instead of a bow, and hex instead of hunters mark.
-You can put out damage on par or better than other damage dealers and and have spells and cantrips to play with. -You have eldritch invocations to get at will spells and other effects that are spell or spell like or to buff your blast -One you hit 5th level you can keep concentration on hex for 8 hours which means through a short rest. This allows you to kind of earn a 3rd spell slot if you can keep concentration until you rest since you get back both your slots and still have hex running.
Look at it vs a barb with a 2 hander
They are going to do 1d12 or 2d6 + 2 for a max of 14 Warlock is going to do 1d10+1d6 (hex) for a max of 16 Both can get +main stat for damage.
Now consider that a warlock is going to be doing force damage which isn't gong to be resisted like physical damage and has a range of 120ft. EB can also get invocations to push and pull the targets which can push them into area effect or off terrain, save allies from taking attacks of opportunity and even pull flying creatures down out of the sky.
Unlike other physical damage classes you have the fun of getting cantrips to use, and have the option of taking book of ancient secrets to gain access to ritual spells to offset the fact that you have so few spell slots.
They did a good job of making it feel like its own class instead of something that should have just been a wizard subclass.
Look at warlocks as a kind of a ranger that uses Eldrich Blast+agonizing blast instead of a bow, and hex instead of hunters mark.
-You can put out damage on par or better than other damage dealers and and have spells and cantrips to play with. -You have eldritch invocations to get at will spells and other effects that are spell or spell like or to buff your blast -One you hit 5th level you can keep concentration on hex for 8 hours which means through a short rest. This allows you to kind of earn a 3rd spell slot if you can keep concentration until you rest since you get back both your slots and still have hex running.
Look at it vs a barb with a 2 hander
They are going to do 1d12 or 2d6 + 2 for a max of 14 Warlock is going to do 1d10+1d6 (hex) for a max of 16 Both can get +main stat for damage.
Now consider that a warlock is going to be doing force damage which isn't gong to be resisted like physical damage and has a range of 120ft. EB can also get invocations to push and pull the targets which can push them into area effect or off terrain, save allies from taking attacks of opportunity and even pull flying creatures down out of the sky.
Unlike other physical damage classes you have the fun of getting cantrips to use, and have the option of taking book of ancient secrets to gain access to ritual spells to offset the fact that you have so few spell slots.
They did a good job of making it feel like its own class instead of something that should have just been a wizard subclass.
Apart from Hex and Hunter's Mark, the Warlock and Ranger comparison really doesn't work though.
Rangers are a mostly martial class with features that require the DM to throw the right type of enemies at you and have the campaign happen in the right type of environment. The spells are mostly concentration ones so you most of the time have one active and then proceed to fight with your bow or melee weapons. They also don't have any Cantrips at all and are mostly about the exploration/survival aspect of the game.
On the other hand, Warlocks are highly customizable thanks to the Invocations, only really have one concentration spell they care about unless they go for the Darkness + Devil's Sight combo (which works great for the Hexblade which already has a build in curse feature) and are great at the social aspect of the game thanks to high CHA and various invocations supporting that kind of playstyle.
As for the Barbarian comparison, it doesn't really help to look at max damage calculations. You will almost never see those numbers. You should look at averages instead.
The Greatsword Barbarian deals on average 9+STR damage and often has advantage on that roll.
The Eldritch Blast spamming Warlock deals on average 8+CHA damage (if you took the Agonizing Blast invocation) at range but also has to maintain concentration on a spell and use one of his two spell slots this fight until they reach level 5 at least, but then the calculation should include the second attack/blast as well plus it depends on how many fights the DM gives you within those 8 hours and whether you can keep up concentration.
Eldritch Blast is great, no question, but just looking at the max damage paints a pretty wrong picture. Yes you can do a lot of fancy things with Invocations and yes the Eldritch Blast can keep up damage-wise, however it is not superior. Especially once we factor in feats like Great Weapon Master so he can get +10 damage on his swings, or crit fishing with a Greataxe as a half-orc etc. Not to mention that a Barbarian will be standing and swinging when the EB spamming Warlock has been put down a long while ago, which means the Barbarian is getting closer to his average damage while the Warlock is more swingy, plus the Barbarian gets more chances to roll max damage on one of his attacks.
I agree though that they made a great job at making the Warlock feel distinct. They aren't like any other class in the game. The closest to Invocations we got are the Artificer Infusions, however Artificers are only half casters without spells unique to them and no other caster in the game has a spell slot progression quite like a Warlock. I only wish we would get the subclass spells added to our known spells like others do, instead of them just being options to pick from.
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I've never encountered a forum where I got this many "talking to a wall" impressions as this one...
Look at warlocks as a kind of a ranger that uses Eldrich Blast+agonizing blast instead of a bow, and hex instead of hunters mark.
-You can put out damage on par or better than other damage dealers and and have spells and cantrips to play with. -You have eldritch invocations to get at will spells and other effects that are spell or spell like or to buff your blast -One you hit 5th level you can keep concentration on hex for 8 hours which means through a short rest. This allows you to kind of earn a 3rd spell slot if you can keep concentration until you rest since you get back both your slots and still have hex running.
Look at it vs a barb with a 2 hander
They are going to do 1d12 or 2d6 + 2 for a max of 14 Warlock is going to do 1d10+1d6 (hex) for a max of 16 Both can get +main stat for damage.
Now consider that a warlock is going to be doing force damage which isn't gong to be resisted like physical damage and has a range of 120ft. EB can also get invocations to push and pull the targets which can push them into area effect or off terrain, save allies from taking attacks of opportunity and even pull flying creatures down out of the sky.
Unlike other physical damage classes you have the fun of getting cantrips to use, and have the option of taking book of ancient secrets to gain access to ritual spells to offset the fact that you have so few spell slots.
They did a good job of making it feel like its own class instead of something that should have just been a wizard subclass.
Apart from Hex and Hunter's Mark, the Warlock and Ranger comparison really doesn't work though.
Rangers are a mostly martial class with features that require the DM to throw the right type of enemies at you and have the campaign happen in the right type of environment. The spells are mostly concentration ones so you most of the time have one active and then proceed to fight with your bow or melee weapons. They also don't have any Cantrips at all and are mostly about the exploration/survival aspect of the game.
On the other hand, Warlocks are highly customizable thanks to the Invocations, only really have one concentration spell they care about unless they go for the Darkness + Devil's Sight combo (which works great for the Hexblade which already has a build in curse feature) and are great at the social aspect of the game thanks to high CHA and various invocations supporting that kind of playstyle.
As for the Barbarian comparison, it doesn't really help to look at max damage calculations. You will almost never see those numbers. You should look at averages instead.
The Greatsword Barbarian deals on average 9+STR damage and often has advantage on that roll.
The Eldritch Blast spamming Warlock deals on average 8+CHA damage (if you took the Agonizing Blast invocation) at range but also has to maintain concentration on a spell and use one of his two spell slots this fight until they reach level 5 at least, but then the calculation should include the second attack/blast as well plus it depends on how many fights the DM gives you within those 8 hours and whether you can keep up concentration.
Eldritch Blast is great, no question, but just looking at the max damage paints a pretty wrong picture. Yes you can do a lot of fancy things with Invocations and yes the Eldritch Blast can keep up damage-wise, however it is not superior. Especially once we factor in feats like Great Weapon Master so he can get +10 damage on his swings, or crit fishing with a Greataxe as a half-orc etc. Not to mention that a Barbarian will be standing and swinging when the EB spamming Warlock has been put down a long while ago, which means the Barbarian is getting closer to his average damage while the Warlock is more swingy, plus the Barbarian gets more chances to roll max damage on one of his attacks.
I agree though that they made a great job at making the Warlock feel distinct. They aren't like any other class in the game. The closest to Invocations we got are the Artificer Infusions, however Artificers are only half casters without spells unique to them and no other caster in the game has a spell slot progression quite like a Warlock. I only wish we would get the subclass spells added to our known spells like others do, instead of them just being options to pick from.
I agree with much of your analysis except for one point- "Not to mention that a Barbarian will be standing and swinging when the EB spamming Warlock has been put down a long while ago"
You can't have it both ways. You can't say Barb will attack stronger because they will have advantage and then turn around and say they will be standing long after the Warlock. If the Barb is getting advantage, then EVERYTHING is getting advantage on him erego he ain't staying up longer than the Warlock. In all my campaigns playing a Warlock, we have had to revive the Barbarian far more times than me.
He's still going to stand longer even while using reckless though. He has FAR more hit points and usually better AC as well. If the Barbarian goes down first most of the time it's usually because the DM plays to your party's strengths aka keeps attacking the frontline instead of trying to take out the hight priority backline first.
Either way, their damage output is more reliable. Be it due to advantage on their attacks or due to them surviving longer. Both also makes it more likely to get that sweet max damage roll eventually. My point still stands.
Depending on the build Warlocks can be surprisingly durable. Fiend Warlocks can generate a steady stream of Temp HP with Armor of Agathys either leading into that or backing it up.
As a V. Human a good starting feat is always Moderately Armored which will likely give you an AC comparable to Barbarians. But whatever stats you look at it won't be and apples to apples comparison.
Warlocks are hard to pigeonhole since between Patron, Pact and Invocations there are a good number of variables to consider, even two Fiend/Pact of the Chain Warlocks can be so completely different as to almost be two separate classes depending on spell selection and Invocations.
So you are counting the attack, rage and reckless features in your calculation for Barbarians but only counting cantrips and one invocation for the Warlock? Mk. It's fine if you just like Barbarian better but you need to keep your argument intellectually honest.
If we assume Level 2 for both to get the features you want, then the damage calc is more like this if we are comparing full level 2 against full level 2-
Barb- 1 attack with Great Axe- 6.5 avg weapon damage + 3 Strength + 2 Rage= 11.5 total
Warlock- 1 attack with EB- 5.5 avg force damage + 3 charisma + 3.5 avg Hex damage= 12 total
Technically Warlock wins. I would say realistically they tie. Barb has 2 Rages and Warlock has 2 Spells so they have even likelihood of applying that damage from each. Barb is more durable but Warlock can easily attack from cover and range- survivability is similar.
Again- if you love Barb thats 100% ok but lets keep the discussions involving the math and mechanics intellectually honest.
FFS people, you can throw up all these hypothetical scenarios to try to prove a point but it doesn't matter.
The point is they both will put out comparable damage and there are advantages and disadvantages to both classes
. One has to be melee, one has 120ft range, one can make use of cover after shooting one has to be out in the open. One is going to be getting attacks of opportunity from time to time, but will also not be able to move or be forced to take them as well Warlock has to keep concentration on a spell, the barb has to keep hitting or getting hit to keep rage, rage lasts 1 min, hex lasts from 1 to 24 hours.
This crap is apples to oranges, the point is they do more or less similar amounts of damage with their at will attacks.
FFS people, you can throw up all these hypothetical scenarios to try to prove a point but it doesn't matter.
The point is they both will put out comparable damage and there are advantages and disadvantages to both classes
. One has to be melee, one has 120ft range, one can make use of cover after shooting one has to be out in the open. One is going to be getting attacks of opportunity from time to time, but will also not be able to move or be forced to take them as well Warlock has to keep concentration on a spell, the barb has to keep hitting or getting hit to keep rage, rage lasts 1 min, hex lasts from 1 to 24 hours.
This crap is apples to oranges, the point is they do more or less similar amounts of damage with their at will attacks.
Thank you. As I mentioned- it's basically a tie lol. And I imagine that is by design. WOTC doesn't want any one class to be overly stronger or weaker than any other class as balance makes for a better game.
Look at warlocks as a kind of a ranger that uses Eldrich Blast+agonizing blast instead of a bow, and hex instead of hunters mark.
-You can put out damage on par or better than other damage dealers and and have spells and cantrips to play with. -You have eldritch invocations to get at will spells and other effects that are spell or spell like or to buff your blast -One you hit 5th level you can keep concentration on hex for 8 hours which means through a short rest. This allows you to kind of earn a 3rd spell slot if you can keep concentration until you rest since you get back both your slots and still have hex running.
Look at it vs a barb with a 2 hander
They are going to do 1d12 or 2d6 + 2 for a max of 14 Warlock is going to do 1d10+1d6 (hex) for a max of 16 Both can get +main stat for damage.
Now consider that a warlock is going to be doing force damage which isn't gong to be resisted like physical damage and has a range of 120ft. EB can also get invocations to push and pull the targets which can push them into area effect or off terrain, save allies from taking attacks of opportunity and even pull flying creatures down out of the sky.
Unlike other physical damage classes you have the fun of getting cantrips to use, and have the option of taking book of ancient secrets to gain access to ritual spells to offset the fact that you have so few spell slots.
They did a good job of making it feel like its own class instead of something that should have just been a wizard subclass.
1st of all, I agree with this.
I think it is a better comparison between Eldrich Blast+agonizing blast+Repelling Blast and Battle Master archer or Arcane Archer.
Attack rate:
Fighter: prof+mod+2 (even higher with a magical weapon)
Warlock: prof+mod
damage:
Fighter: 1d8+mod (even higher with a magical weapon or Bracer of Archery)
Warlock: 1d10+mod with knock back
Range:
Fighter: 150, 400 with feats
Warlock: 120, 240 with feats
# of attack:
Fighter: 1 on Lv1~4, 2 on Lv 5~10. 3 on Lv 11~19, 4 on Lv20
Warlock: 1 on Lv1~4, 2 on Lv 5~10. 3 on Lv 11~16, 4 on Lv17~20
Additional damage and feature:
Arcane Archer Fighter: 2 charges of additional damage by the subclass feature that reset on short rest
Battle Master Fighter: 4 ~ 6 charge of additional damage by the subclass feature that reset on short rest
Warlock: 1~4 spell slots that reset on short rest
Archer Fighter can deal more damage with a +1longbow or Bracer of Archery but Warlock has powerful spells.
As for why Warlock has fewer spell slots, one of the reasons is because no other caster can deal that kind damage with a Cantrips spell.
There is a comparison:
Eldrich Blast: (1d10+mod)x# of attack
Avg damage at a different level with +4 mod: 9.5, 19, 28.5, 38
Avg damage at a different level with +5 mod: 10.5, 21, 31.5, 42
Fire Bolt (with School of Evocation or Draconic Bloodline feature that is at lv10 or lv 6): spell damage + mod (one attack)
Avg damage at a different level with +4 mod: 5.5, 15, 20.5, 26
Avg damage at a different level with +5 mod: 5.5, 16, 21.5, 27
Fire Bolt (without School of Evocation or Draconic Bloodline): spell damage
Avg damage at a different level: 5.5, 11, 16.5, 22
Because of eldritch blast and it's invocations. Even when you have no spell slots remaining, warlocks are quite good.
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Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
So I'm new to dnd, and have been into it for the past half year. I'm about to start a camping, and I'm playing a Warlock. Why do they have so few spell slots, doesn't that kinda make them useless during a fight when they essentially run out of spells and have to do combat when strength is usually a dump stat for them? I'm just curious, and looking for opinions or explanations.
Here are few things you should remember while playing a warlock,
1- your spells slots recharge on a SHORT and a LONG rest so it's easy to get them back meaning you can cast spells more often than any caster if you take multiple short rests since most other classes need a long rest to regain their spell slots, in addition, spells you cast are always at the highest available level meaning your damage will always be high if the spells you took scale.
2- Depending on your build, Eldritch blast is arguably the strongest cantrip in the game dealing 1d10 force damage which is rare to find enemies resistant to and also the damage increases on certain levels (note: you can even take Agonizing blast invocation to add your charisma modifier to it)
3- Eldritch invocations gives you spells for free without needing spellslots and some can be cast at will meaning you always have them. Some invocations give you very interesting abilities that no other class can get like devil sight which allows you to see even in magical darkness.
4-- Always think ahead when building a warlock and make the style that fits you and your fantasy.
On the note that strength is their dump stat, people only do it if you are going caster type of build otherwise you can go pact of the blade and get a strength weapon if you want.
Born under the watch of something from the furthest corners of the far realms.... It knows all.... it sees all... and it asks: "What is it that you want to see?"... and my answer is... ALL"
It helps if you don't think of Warlock as a traditional full caster but more of a magic ranger that also can get upper level spells.
1- Instead of a longbow or crossbow, they have Eldritch Blast. It's mostly superior to a longbow or crossbow in just about every way especially when you start customizing with invocations.
2- As has also been mentioned- Warlocks are short rest casters- so they can blow through their spells to be very "bursty" in what would be normally minor skirmishes and then an hour later they are back to full.
3- Their invocations give them alot of the flexibility that "normal" full casters must use their spell slots on. This flexibility from invocations evens out alot of the power differential by not having alot of spell slots.
Examples-
The wizard has to cast mage armor every morning with a level one slot usually- you can get it for free.
The wizard needs to run away in a crowd and burns a level 1 slot for Disguise Self- you can get it for free.
The wizard/druid has to use a slot to cast Daylight to dispel the darkness spell causing them to loose their quarry- you can see through magical darkness.
Druid's gotta burn a slot to talk to the animals- you can do it for free etc etc.
ALOT of the feeling of whether or not Warlock is underpowered can also come from a place of table habits. If your DM & Group are not allowing for short rests, this can severely limit a Warlock and make them feel very underpowered in comparison to traditional full casters. This is something to work with your table to resolve.
Enjoy! Warlock is 100% my favorite class at the moment for their lore, unique spellcasting and the massive flexibility of invocations.
Because we don't waste time with puny low level spell slots later on like other classes. We always go full power.
Also our spell slots regenerate after short rests (1 hour), not just long rests (8 hours).
Also also we have the Eldritch Blast cantrip and Invocations to buff it. That's our main damage source (unless we go melee with Pact of the Blade).
Speaking of Invocations, there are several ones that let you cast spells at will without using spell slots and other, stronger ones, that let you cast spells without using spell slots but once per long rest.
I've never encountered a forum where I got this many "talking to a wall" impressions as this one...
Insist on your Short Rests. For one time it actually hurts the party to 'waste' time on a Short Rest (which many other classes also use to regenerate resources + everyone enjoys getting their HP back), there are tens of times where it benefits everyone. Unless you know you are on a strict time limit, you should go for a Short Rest when you're out of Spell Slots. This makes the Warlock way more viable, as we're getting more high level spell slots than other classes. We might not have as many 1st and 2nd level Spell Slots, but being able to throw 5th level Spell Slots around makes many Casters envious.
Since this makes our Spell casting very deliberate and calculated, lest we waste our precious Spell Slots, we have Eldritch Blast when we don't want to waste a spell on some minions.
Our Invocations make us very special, as it allows us to fully grow into the niche we chose to fulfill in our party. Instead of rgular class features, we simply choose which class features we want to have! And if we get tired of one, we can simply switch them out on a level up.
We're also tankier than the Sorcerer and Wizard, as we have a higher Hit Die and start with Light Armor Proficiency. Still not quite as tanky as a Cleric or Druid, but it could be worse.
My burnt and blackened heart loves Warlocks but is there any other class that is so dependent on 1 simple mechanic? Playing a Warlock is going to be the most rewarding at low levels as a caster if your DM allows for proper short rests.
Bards get their Bardic Inspiration back on a short rest (after level 5).
Warlocks get limitations because the recover on a short rest, use d8 hit dice, have armor proficiency, and invocations are strong compared to wizards and sorcerers, who are almost entirely about spell casting.
Every class uses short rest mechanics for spending hit dice. Only rogues lack other short rest recovery abilities. Some classes have prominent short rest ability recharges like bard inspiration, druid wild shape, monk ki, and fighter action surge (as well as many subclasses).
Because players who decide to play Warlocks are so awesome giving them more spell slots would make them over powered.
Abide.
Look at warlocks as a kind of a ranger that uses Eldrich Blast+agonizing blast instead of a bow, and hex instead of hunters mark.
-You can put out damage on par or better than other damage dealers and and have spells and cantrips to play with.
-You have eldritch invocations to get at will spells and other effects that are spell or spell like or to buff your blast
-One you hit 5th level you can keep concentration on hex for 8 hours which means through a short rest. This allows you to kind of earn a 3rd spell slot if you can keep concentration until you rest since you get back both your slots and still have hex running.
Look at it vs a barb with a 2 hander
They are going to do 1d12 or 2d6 + 2 for a max of 14
Warlock is going to do 1d10+1d6 (hex) for a max of 16
Both can get +main stat for damage.
Now consider that a warlock is going to be doing force damage which isn't gong to be resisted like physical damage and has a range of 120ft.
EB can also get invocations to push and pull the targets which can push them into area effect or off terrain, save allies from taking attacks of opportunity and even pull flying creatures down out of the sky.
Unlike other physical damage classes you have the fun of getting cantrips to use, and have the option of taking book of ancient secrets to gain access to ritual spells to offset the fact that you have so few spell slots.
They did a good job of making it feel like its own class instead of something that should have just been a wizard subclass.
Apart from Hex and Hunter's Mark, the Warlock and Ranger comparison really doesn't work though.
Rangers are a mostly martial class with features that require the DM to throw the right type of enemies at you and have the campaign happen in the right type of environment. The spells are mostly concentration ones so you most of the time have one active and then proceed to fight with your bow or melee weapons. They also don't have any Cantrips at all and are mostly about the exploration/survival aspect of the game.
On the other hand, Warlocks are highly customizable thanks to the Invocations, only really have one concentration spell they care about unless they go for the Darkness + Devil's Sight combo (which works great for the Hexblade which already has a build in curse feature) and are great at the social aspect of the game thanks to high CHA and various invocations supporting that kind of playstyle.
As for the Barbarian comparison, it doesn't really help to look at max damage calculations. You will almost never see those numbers. You should look at averages instead.
The Greatsword Barbarian deals on average 9+STR damage and often has advantage on that roll.
The Eldritch Blast spamming Warlock deals on average 8+CHA damage (if you took the Agonizing Blast invocation) at range but also has to maintain concentration on a spell and use one of his two spell slots this fight until they reach level 5 at least, but then the calculation should include the second attack/blast as well plus it depends on how many fights the DM gives you within those 8 hours and whether you can keep up concentration.
Eldritch Blast is great, no question, but just looking at the max damage paints a pretty wrong picture. Yes you can do a lot of fancy things with Invocations and yes the Eldritch Blast can keep up damage-wise, however it is not superior. Especially once we factor in feats like Great Weapon Master so he can get +10 damage on his swings, or crit fishing with a Greataxe as a half-orc etc.
Not to mention that a Barbarian will be standing and swinging when the EB spamming Warlock has been put down a long while ago, which means the Barbarian is getting closer to his average damage while the Warlock is more swingy, plus the Barbarian gets more chances to roll max damage on one of his attacks.
I agree though that they made a great job at making the Warlock feel distinct. They aren't like any other class in the game. The closest to Invocations we got are the Artificer Infusions, however Artificers are only half casters without spells unique to them and no other caster in the game has a spell slot progression quite like a Warlock. I only wish we would get the subclass spells added to our known spells like others do, instead of them just being options to pick from.
I've never encountered a forum where I got this many "talking to a wall" impressions as this one...
I agree with much of your analysis except for one point- "Not to mention that a Barbarian will be standing and swinging when the EB spamming Warlock has been put down a long while ago"
You can't have it both ways. You can't say Barb will attack stronger because they will have advantage and then turn around and say they will be standing long after the Warlock. If the Barb is getting advantage, then EVERYTHING is getting advantage on him erego he ain't staying up longer than the Warlock. In all my campaigns playing a Warlock, we have had to revive the Barbarian far more times than me.
He's still going to stand longer even while using reckless though. He has FAR more hit points and usually better AC as well. If the Barbarian goes down first most of the time it's usually because the DM plays to your party's strengths aka keeps attacking the frontline instead of trying to take out the hight priority backline first.
Either way, their damage output is more reliable. Be it due to advantage on their attacks or due to them surviving longer. Both also makes it more likely to get that sweet max damage roll eventually. My point still stands.
I've never encountered a forum where I got this many "talking to a wall" impressions as this one...
Depending on the build Warlocks can be surprisingly durable. Fiend Warlocks can generate a steady stream of Temp HP with Armor of Agathys either leading into that or backing it up.
As a V. Human a good starting feat is always Moderately Armored which will likely give you an AC comparable to Barbarians. But whatever stats you look at it won't be and apples to apples comparison.
Warlocks are hard to pigeonhole since between Patron, Pact and Invocations there are a good number of variables to consider, even two Fiend/Pact of the Chain Warlocks can be so completely different as to almost be two separate classes depending on spell selection and Invocations.
Abide.
So you are counting the attack, rage and reckless features in your calculation for Barbarians but only counting cantrips and one invocation for the Warlock? Mk. It's fine if you just like Barbarian better but you need to keep your argument intellectually honest.
If we assume Level 2 for both to get the features you want, then the damage calc is more like this if we are comparing full level 2 against full level 2-
Barb- 1 attack with Great Axe- 6.5 avg weapon damage + 3 Strength + 2 Rage= 11.5 total
Warlock- 1 attack with EB- 5.5 avg force damage + 3 charisma + 3.5 avg Hex damage= 12 total
Technically Warlock wins. I would say realistically they tie. Barb has 2 Rages and Warlock has 2 Spells so they have even likelihood of applying that damage from each. Barb is more durable but Warlock can easily attack from cover and range- survivability is similar.
Again- if you love Barb thats 100% ok but lets keep the discussions involving the math and mechanics intellectually honest.
FFS people, you can throw up all these hypothetical scenarios to try to prove a point but it doesn't matter.
The point is they both will put out comparable damage and there are advantages and disadvantages to both classes
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One has to be melee, one has 120ft range, one can make use of cover after shooting one has to be out in the open.
One is going to be getting attacks of opportunity from time to time, but will also not be able to move or be forced to take them as well
Warlock has to keep concentration on a spell, the barb has to keep hitting or getting hit to keep rage, rage lasts 1 min, hex lasts from 1 to 24 hours.
This crap is apples to oranges, the point is they do more or less similar amounts of damage with their at will attacks.
Thank you. As I mentioned- it's basically a tie lol. And I imagine that is by design. WOTC doesn't want any one class to be overly stronger or weaker than any other class as balance makes for a better game.
1st of all, I agree with this.
I think it is a better comparison between Eldrich Blast+agonizing blast+Repelling Blast and Battle Master archer or Arcane Archer.
Archer Fighter can deal more damage with a +1longbow or Bracer of Archery but Warlock has powerful spells.
As for why Warlock has fewer spell slots, one of the reasons is because no other caster can deal that kind damage with a Cantrips spell.
There is a comparison:
Eldrich Blast: (1d10+mod)x# of attack
Fire Bolt (with School of Evocation or Draconic Bloodline feature that is at lv10 or lv 6): spell damage + mod (one attack)
Fire Bolt (without School of Evocation or Draconic Bloodline): spell damage
Because of eldritch blast and it's invocations. Even when you have no spell slots remaining, warlocks are quite good.
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Tasha
Because if they had any more spell slots Warlocks would be too awesome for the game.