Thanks, I'm having an ongoing "discussion" with my DM about minor illusion in our campaign. I am playing an arcane trickster which limits me to spells from illusion/enchantment schools. So far he's been very resistant to my attempts to use minor illusion to distract enemies during combat. I realized I made a mistake in our last session. I cast an illusion of a statue and then cast minor illusion again to make it speak. After reviewing the spell description I saw that the spell ends if I cast minor illusion again so the statue would have vanished.
Even so, he thinks it's OP for a cantrip to have monsters distracted by a sound coming from behind them. In searching for this topic is seems the main way minor illusion is used by the community is for action economy during combat (getting a round where the enemy can't do anything productive because they're spending an action disbelieving the illusion).
If you're a illusionist wizard when in an urban environment and talking to a merchant you could use the minor illusion to create a broken product and a crash in the back of their shop which would definitely distract them, allowing you to steal an item from their store and run away.
You can also use 6th(so there is no need for concentration) level major image to form armor around you and use illusory reality to make it real, then you can use shadow blade from the xananthars guide and then you're fully equipped with illusory combat gear.
When my players have tried to use minor illusion in a manner similar to this (creating a loud noise to spook the horses pulling the carriage they were attacking), I had the targets - the horses, in this case - roll a Wis save vs. the caster's spell DC. Giving the targets a fair chance to resist being distracted keeps it from being OP, I think.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"We're the perfect combination of expendable and unkillable!"
Currently playing a wizard gnome. I've only had a few sessions with this character, but he uses Minor Illusion as much as he talks. One of the other players (kind of a jerk) kept casting light on me in a fight when there were guards coming, so I turned myself into a giant lamp to conceal myself.
Possibilities with illusions are as much as your creativity allows, and lots of d&d players are pretty damn creative
In an old Dragon Magazine is a classical nasty illusion trick that is very effective. Cast a few illusionary fireballs and when the enemy realizes they are illusions cast a real fireball.
I've just started looking for my first D&D group and all of the advice I've been able to find on playing your first PC basically screams "DON'T PLAY A CASTER" so naturally I want my first to be a straight illusionist.
With full respect to wanting to do this well, I intend to have all the chats with the unfortunate DM who lets me into their group to make sure I don't ruin the fun for everyone else, but I'm honestly drawn the the infinite possibilities that illusions present.
I've seen all of my ideas represented here save for one... I was thinking of how I might try to get advantage on an intimidation during an interrogation
With the 6 second action time, using minor illusion to "flash" (no light just alteration of color) my irises turn red during an intense non blinking stare-down while I inform the person in question that my patience has expired, and politely suggest that they start talking, as they only have until I finish my "summoning circle" which will conjure forth >insert favorite demon/devil/terror here< to end their existence and dam their soul...
Then I avert my eyes as I start chanting nonsense and cast a new sequence of illusions building a 5" circle around them, filling in runes and details to get them to start talking or face their worst fears.
I don't know if minor illusion is an instantaneous effect, or if it can be slowly brought into being... if the speed of the illusion can be slowed (with all respect to it still being a non moving object) than this could add to the level of fear as the circle and runes slowly scratch them self into the floor beneath them as apposed to being layered effects.
I've just started looking for my first D&D group and all of the advice I've been able to find on playing your first PC basically screams "DON'T PLAY A CASTER" so naturally I want my first to be a straight illusionist.
With full respect to wanting to do this well, I intend to have all the chats with the unfortunate DM who lets me into their group to make sure I don't ruin the fun for everyone else, but I'm honestly drawn the the infinite possibilities that illusions present.
I've seen all of my ideas represented here save for one... I was thinking of how I might try to get advantage on an intimidation during an interrogation
With the 6 second action time, using minor illusion to "flash" (no light just alteration of color) my irises turn red during an intense non blinking stare-down while I inform the person in question that my patience has expired, and politely suggest that they start talking, as they only have until I finish my "summoning circle" which will conjure forth >insert favorite demon/devil/terror here< to end their existence and dam their soul...
Then I avert my eyes as I start chanting nonsense and cast a new sequence of illusions building a 5" circle around them, filling in runes and details to get them to start talking or face their worst fears.
I don't know if minor illusion is an instantaneous effect, or if it can be slowly brought into being... if the speed of the illusion can be slowed (with all respect to it still being a non moving object) than this could add to the level of fear as the circle and runes slowly scratch them self into the floor beneath them as apposed to being layered effects.
I have to say your post raises a REALLY cool question.
Is Illusion "instantaneous" and will this match the actions of a "summoning circle"?
1) If you were trying to intimidate someone as such, they would get a save on the illusion then if they fail, I suppose the DM will give them disadvantage on your intimidation?
2) If the illusion doesn't look right because of how the different spells work (can you fade in the illusion or make it look like a summoner's circle etc.) then the DM can use this however they think is appropriate for your illusion, such as you make an illusion of a spell but the enemy wizard recognizes you first did the somatics of an illusion spell and then you don't seem to know the somatics of the summoning ritual and so they have an advantage to roll against your illusion?
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Read the first chapters. Feel free to critique. Will link the next chapters at the end of the first. Two stories running so far.
2) If the illusion doesn't look right because of how the different spells work (can you fade in the illusion or make it look like a summoner's circle etc.) then the DM can use this however they think is appropriate for your illusion, such as you make an illusion of a spell but the enemy wizard recognizes you first did the somatics of an illusion spell and then you don't seem to know the somatics of the summoning ritual and so they have an advantage to roll against your illusion?
Are the somatic components to a spell unique to the person or the spell?
I was under the assumption that the hand gestures were a tool used by the caster in order to form the spell in their own mind properly and manipulate the magics around them.. as a wizard learning to use magic from a book it's unlikely that the gestures would translate to the point that another caster would be able to predict with certainty, what you are casting before its complete.
I'm thinking along the lines of learning how to tie complex knots from a survivalist book, you might know by the end what kind of knot has been used, but the fingers making loops and the tucks, (not to mention preferences in left VS right handedness) the actions used to make the final product would he different from person to person... Watch some one tie their shoes, a fairly simple knot, with thousands of variations in hand movements - take away the shoe, would you know it's just a bow-tie knot while being tied?
2) If the illusion doesn't look right because of how the different spells work (can you fade in the illusion or make it look like a summoner's circle etc.) then the DM can use this however they think is appropriate for your illusion, such as you make an illusion of a spell but the enemy wizard recognizes you first did the somatics of an illusion spell and then you don't seem to know the somatics of the summoning ritual and so they have an advantage to roll against your illusion?
Are the somatic components to a spell unique to the person or the spell?
I was under the assumption that the hand gestures were a tool used by the caster in order to form the spell in their own mind properly and manipulate the magics around them.. as a wizard learning to use magic from a book it's unlikely that the gestures would translate to the point that another caster would be able to predict with certainty, what you are casting before its complete.
I'm thinking along the lines of learning how to tie complex knots from a survivalist book, you might know by the end what kind of knot has been used, but the fingers making loops and the tucks, (not to mention preferences in left VS right handedness) the actions used to make the final product would he different from person to person... Watch some one tie their shoes, a fairly simple knot, with thousands of variations in hand movements - take away the shoe, would you know it's just a bow-tie knot while being tied?
I think its a mix of both.
There's obviously some common information (overlap) between all Wizards such that you know that this is a "Fireball Spell" and that is a "Frostbite Spell". So whatever overlaps in the spellbook probably also overlaps in the somatic, verbal and certainly material where all spells have the same material components between casters.
I think it can be made as complex or reduced of a game mechanic as you want, perhaps the somatic are hidden from the intended "target", perhaps the somatic is well known to the spell caster and they purposefully want the target to see the somatic to enhance the illusion.
Perhaps the somatic isn't the overlap, but the design for the summoner's circle, like the "Knot" analogy the circle forms a pattern that is common to the spell that a higher spell caster would know for certain regardless of the somatic of the hands that cast it
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Read the first chapters. Feel free to critique. Will link the next chapters at the end of the first. Two stories running so far.
I wasn't playing a wizard, but I was an Arcane Trickster Doppelganger named Hrigl Parthomeulex the 11thborn, and he was trying to get into some sort of divine mountain fortress or something. I had him go inside a nearby corpse, and he cast minor illusion to make it seem like it was a living dwarf. I may or may not have used unseen servant to puppeteer the body.
The guardians on the wall turned Hrigl away, and so the corpse walked away a bit, and then I cast invisibility and climbed out of the corpse and dismissed the illusion, making it seem as if the dwarf just fell dead.
We were playing Tomb of Annihilation, and my mage took Tinder (young red dragon) out of the fight for several rounds with phantasmal force. I created an illusory rival green dragon, and the minimal damage that the dragon was taking was written off as the rival dragon being puny in combat compared to Tzindelor's might. It was only when my fellow PC's ("minions of her rival," as the dragon saw it) began doing considerable damage that the dragon took time to pay attention to us.
1. Party enters an ancient barracks, filled with now rising skeletal warriors of an ancient battalion. Major image of their commander (Likeness taken from a tapestry on the wall) is produced bellowing out for the skeletal troops to form up for inspection... Once the skeletal troops line up, a lightning bolt from the shadows wipes out the entire battalion!
2. Party is facing a young black dragon down and the barbarian has blundered into its sleeping pool of water (about to get KO'd) Phantasmal force beats the dragon's save and creates a rival dragon beside the black dragon flying away with some of its golden treasure clutched in its claws. The black dragon ignores the flailing barbarian and attempts to fight the phantasmal dragon allowing the party to save him.
I personally love Illusions as ways to mess with people's heads and line of sight.
Phantasmal Force is a fav since it practically always works on dumber enemies since Int saves are so rare. We once were fighting a pretty dangerous Ogre and my Illusionist decided to use Phantasmal Force to make it look like she was conjuring up a bag that flew and wrapped around the Ogre's head. The Ogre got a chance to figure it out since it was on them, but they failed the check and were blinded for the rest of the encounter!
Another fun trick is using Minor Illusion or any Illusion spell to block LoS. We were getting sniped by an archer, so my Illusionist just shouted "Create Wall of Stone!" like it was a spell, and used the illusion spell to block the Archer's LoS on the party. It forced them to move to a new spot that didn't give them as much cover which made it easier for the party to get them back!
Of course a lot of these stories and examples are possible cause my DM is pretty reasonable when it comes Illusions. Some DMs on power trips refuse to let them work which is a shame since the School of Illusion is S tier as long as your creative and your DM actually lets play the game.
Minor Illusion: "the image can’t create sound, light, smell, or any other sensory effect."
This negates a number of suggestions listed above, but might be workable with higher level illusions.
For the cantrip illusions, I think the more subtle the change, the more practical it is, the more likely it is to succeed, ie. shifting a walls' position slightly to hide a party member, covering a 5' trap with a floor image, making it appear a fallen goblin spilled a purse of gold to distract his cohorts, distraction with non existent doors during fleeing, etc. Endless options, but K.I.S.S. applies. ; )
Thanks, I'm having an ongoing "discussion" with my DM about minor illusion in our campaign. I am playing an arcane trickster which limits me to spells from illusion/enchantment schools. So far he's been very resistant to my attempts to use minor illusion to distract enemies during combat. I realized I made a mistake in our last session. I cast an illusion of a statue and then cast minor illusion again to make it speak. After reviewing the spell description I saw that the spell ends if I cast minor illusion again so the statue would have vanished.
Even so, he thinks it's OP for a cantrip to have monsters distracted by a sound coming from behind them. In searching for this topic is seems the main way minor illusion is used by the community is for action economy during combat (getting a round where the enemy can't do anything productive because they're spending an action disbelieving the illusion).
If you're a illusionist wizard when in an urban environment and talking to a merchant you could use the minor illusion to create a broken product and a crash in the back of their shop which would definitely distract them, allowing you to steal an item from their store and run away.
You can also use 6th(so there is no need for concentration) level major image to form armor around you and use illusory reality to make it real, then you can use shadow blade from the xananthars guide and then you're fully equipped with illusory combat gear.
Are you a wizard? Because wizards can't use the silence spell
When my players have tried to use minor illusion in a manner similar to this (creating a loud noise to spook the horses pulling the carriage they were attacking), I had the targets - the horses, in this case - roll a Wis save vs. the caster's spell DC. Giving the targets a fair chance to resist being distracted keeps it from being OP, I think.
"We're the perfect combination of expendable and unkillable!"
Currently playing a wizard gnome. I've only had a few sessions with this character, but he uses Minor Illusion as much as he talks. One of the other players (kind of a jerk) kept casting light on me in a fight when there were guards coming, so I turned myself into a giant lamp to conceal myself.
Possibilities with illusions are as much as your creativity allows, and lots of d&d players are pretty damn creative
In an old Dragon Magazine is a classical nasty illusion trick that is very effective. Cast a few illusionary fireballs and when the enemy realizes they are illusions cast a real fireball.
I've just started looking for my first D&D group and all of the advice I've been able to find on playing your first PC basically screams "DON'T PLAY A CASTER" so naturally I want my first to be a straight illusionist.
With full respect to wanting to do this well, I intend to have all the chats with the unfortunate DM who lets me into their group to make sure I don't ruin the fun for everyone else, but I'm honestly drawn the the infinite possibilities that illusions present.
I've seen all of my ideas represented here save for one... I was thinking of how I might try to get advantage on an intimidation during an interrogation
With the 6 second action time, using minor illusion to "flash" (no light just alteration of color) my irises turn red during an intense non blinking stare-down while I inform the person in question that my patience has expired, and politely suggest that they start talking, as they only have until I finish my "summoning circle" which will conjure forth >insert favorite demon/devil/terror here< to end their existence and dam their soul...
Then I avert my eyes as I start chanting nonsense and cast a new sequence of illusions building a 5" circle around them, filling in runes and details to get them to start talking or face their worst fears.
I don't know if minor illusion is an instantaneous effect, or if it can be slowly brought into being... if the speed of the illusion can be slowed (with all respect to it still being a non moving object) than this could add to the level of fear as the circle and runes slowly scratch them self into the floor beneath them as apposed to being layered effects.
My favorite use so far was level 1 party, being attacked by giant rats and swarms of rats.
My illusion was a growing sound of hungry hissing meowing cats looking for food.
Gave the rats disadvantage lol.
Read the first chapters. Feel free to critique. Will link the next chapters at the end of the first. Two stories running so far.
Simeon Tor:
https://www.dndbeyond.com/forums/d-d-beyond-general/story-lore/34598-simeon-tor-chapter-1-the-heat-of-battle
The Heart of the Drow:
https://www.dndbeyond.com/forums/d-d-beyond-general/story-lore/36014-heart-of-the-drow-chapter-1
I have to say your post raises a REALLY cool question.
Is Illusion "instantaneous" and will this match the actions of a "summoning circle"?
1) If you were trying to intimidate someone as such, they would get a save on the illusion then if they fail, I suppose the DM will give them disadvantage on your intimidation?
2) If the illusion doesn't look right because of how the different spells work (can you fade in the illusion or make it look like a summoner's circle etc.) then the DM can use this however they think is appropriate for your illusion, such as you make an illusion of a spell but the enemy wizard recognizes you first did the somatics of an illusion spell and then you don't seem to know the somatics of the summoning ritual and so they have an advantage to roll against your illusion?
Read the first chapters. Feel free to critique. Will link the next chapters at the end of the first. Two stories running so far.
Simeon Tor:
https://www.dndbeyond.com/forums/d-d-beyond-general/story-lore/34598-simeon-tor-chapter-1-the-heat-of-battle
The Heart of the Drow:
https://www.dndbeyond.com/forums/d-d-beyond-general/story-lore/36014-heart-of-the-drow-chapter-1
Are the somatic components to a spell unique to the person or the spell?
I was under the assumption that the hand gestures were a tool used by the caster in order to form the spell in their own mind properly and manipulate the magics around them.. as a wizard learning to use magic from a book it's unlikely that the gestures would translate to the point that another caster would be able to predict with certainty, what you are casting before its complete.
I'm thinking along the lines of learning how to tie complex knots from a survivalist book, you might know by the end what kind of knot has been used, but the fingers making loops and the tucks, (not to mention preferences in left VS right handedness) the actions used to make the final product would he different from person to person... Watch some one tie their shoes, a fairly simple knot, with thousands of variations in hand movements - take away the shoe, would you know it's just a bow-tie knot while being tied?
I think its a mix of both.
There's obviously some common information (overlap) between all Wizards such that you know that this is a "Fireball Spell" and that is a "Frostbite Spell". So whatever overlaps in the spellbook probably also overlaps in the somatic, verbal and certainly material where all spells have the same material components between casters.
I think it can be made as complex or reduced of a game mechanic as you want, perhaps the somatic are hidden from the intended "target", perhaps the somatic is well known to the spell caster and they purposefully want the target to see the somatic to enhance the illusion.
Perhaps the somatic isn't the overlap, but the design for the summoner's circle, like the "Knot" analogy the circle forms a pattern that is common to the spell that a higher spell caster would know for certain regardless of the somatic of the hands that cast it
Read the first chapters. Feel free to critique. Will link the next chapters at the end of the first. Two stories running so far.
Simeon Tor:
https://www.dndbeyond.com/forums/d-d-beyond-general/story-lore/34598-simeon-tor-chapter-1-the-heat-of-battle
The Heart of the Drow:
https://www.dndbeyond.com/forums/d-d-beyond-general/story-lore/36014-heart-of-the-drow-chapter-1
If you had invisibility all along...?
If you had invilibility all along?
We were playing Tomb of Annihilation, and my mage took Tinder (young red dragon) out of the fight for several rounds with phantasmal force. I created an illusory rival green dragon, and the minimal damage that the dragon was taking was written off as the rival dragon being puny in combat compared to Tzindelor's might. It was only when my fellow PC's ("minions of her rival," as the dragon saw it) began doing considerable damage that the dragon took time to pay attention to us.
Some uses of illusions I have come up with:
1. Party enters an ancient barracks, filled with now rising skeletal warriors of an ancient battalion. Major image of their commander (Likeness taken from a tapestry on the wall) is produced bellowing out for the skeletal troops to form up for inspection... Once the skeletal troops line up, a lightning bolt from the shadows wipes out the entire battalion!
2. Party is facing a young black dragon down and the barbarian has blundered into its sleeping pool of water (about to get KO'd) Phantasmal force beats the dragon's save and creates a rival dragon beside the black dragon flying away with some of its golden treasure clutched in its claws. The black dragon ignores the flailing barbarian and attempts to fight the phantasmal dragon allowing the party to save him.
One thing holding back the non-cantrip illusions for wizards is the verbal component. Real pain in the arse.
I personally love Illusions as ways to mess with people's heads and line of sight.
Phantasmal Force is a fav since it practically always works on dumber enemies since Int saves are so rare. We once were fighting a pretty dangerous Ogre and my Illusionist decided to use Phantasmal Force to make it look like she was conjuring up a bag that flew and wrapped around the Ogre's head. The Ogre got a chance to figure it out since it was on them, but they failed the check and were blinded for the rest of the encounter!
Another fun trick is using Minor Illusion or any Illusion spell to block LoS. We were getting sniped by an archer, so my Illusionist just shouted "Create Wall of Stone!" like it was a spell, and used the illusion spell to block the Archer's LoS on the party. It forced them to move to a new spot that didn't give them as much cover which made it easier for the party to get them back!
Of course a lot of these stories and examples are possible cause my DM is pretty reasonable when it comes Illusions. Some DMs on power trips refuse to let them work which is a shame since the School of Illusion is S tier as long as your creative and your DM actually lets play the game.
Minor Illusion: "the image can’t create sound, light, smell, or any other sensory effect."
This negates a number of suggestions listed above, but might be workable with higher level illusions.
For the cantrip illusions, I think the more subtle the change, the more practical it is, the more likely it is to succeed, ie. shifting a walls' position slightly to hide a party member, covering a 5' trap with a floor image, making it appear a fallen goblin spilled a purse of gold to distract his cohorts, distraction with non existent doors during fleeing, etc. Endless options, but K.I.S.S. applies. ; )
If you create an object, it can't create sound, etc. most of the ones listed that create sound have been just the sound.
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?477658-Illusionist-Tricks
When the DM smiles, it is already to late.