Before anyone ask or points out, the Pathfinder Arcane Trickster is mostly a Wizard with some minor Rogue tweaks. They do get the Mage Hand stealing and disabling traps option. They severely lag behind in Sneak Dice. They are full casters. That is why the 5E Arcane Trickster does not cut it for me.
Problem is, I need to convert an already established character into 5E. So perhaps first an overall description of the character. So a bit of PF mess... Forgive me :D
She's an elf with a very strong feyblood mixture, which results in her ability to see magic as well as some minor bonuses to resistance against being charmed and stuff. For the sake of the Prestige Class, she had 2 levels of Rogue and 3 levels of Admixture Wizard. Admixture is a specialisation of Evocation School, allowing to shift the elements of evocation spells a few times a day, think of Fireball suddenly being Frostball or Thunderball. Thanks to one character trait, she was mitigating the 2 Rogue levels, maintaining a Caster Level equal to her Character level. Which more or less means she was only behind in spell levels not in the power of spells. The overall theme of the character was to create a Spellthief, as in someone who would steal spells while being a Wizard herself. Due to events the knowledge of her family was stolen and now she is on a path to recover it as well as gather new knowledge. Morality aside, she is just gathering all she can by any means necessary that arennot outright murder.
So far in 5E I have discovered that Eladrin would work best for this feyblood part, aside from seeing magic. For that I found only the Warlock's Eldritch Sight as equivalent, but also no means to get it. The only way to get the Mage Hand Tricks is to go 5E Arcane Trickster, which requires 3 level investment just for this one thing. While Expertise is cool and useful, similarly the Thieve's Cant, but I find them not necessary for my needs. From Wizard schools, I see that Admixture is not something that is available. I was thinking of Bladesinger or Illusion, because both work for the overall feel of the Wizardry Scoundrel.
A Rogue 3/Wizard 17 could possibly work, giving the base abilities of a PF Trickster, keeping the feel of the character. But here I am, asking if there is possibly an easier way to achieve Mage Hand Trickery?
" But here I am, asking if there is possibly an easier way to achieve Mage Hand Trickery?"
Shy of asking your DM for a custom magic item, feat or subclass, there is not.
OP, what is your goal here? If you want to play a thieving wizard who uses their mage hand to help them steal things using only written source mateirals, Rogue 3/Wizard X, and you're done. If you want to just make a thieving wizard, just be a wizard and steal things.
If you're trying to recreate a Pathfinder character perfectly, you're going to need to homebrew like Mephista said. Does your character have to have exactly the same set of skills/abilities? D&D has had stats for characters appear across versions, and they always update to whatever the current system allows (Look up Drizzt accross versions for a great example). You could just get it "close enough" and talk with your DM about maybe getting some quests to help restore other abilities/powers that aren't part of the core rules.
I believe that the Gith get an Invisible Mage hand as a racial ability. Maybe Ask your DM to reskin you as some sort of Half Elf? It would get you the invisble magehand in "legally" without multi classing.
My goal is mostly to recreate the character as closely as I can without too much homebrew hassle. Yes, she can cast Thieve's Mage Hand in PF. If she could in 5E, it would be epic.
I can't recreate the character perfectly. In PF she could solo bomb entire encounter with two Fireballs due to how Sneak Dice worked with AoE spells and the Metamagic mechanics of PF. She won't be able to do this here.
What I have set in stone is the fact she is a feyblood elf, mostly wizard with a forced criminal backstory. She used to specialize in disabling magical traps and getting into the most secure vaults to get those shiny magical things or the forbidden scrolls and books. From that point of view, Enchantment or Illusion sound like the schools to go for. If not, I will talk about homebrews.
I must say, prestige classes are hard to carry over the systems. The rest of the party moved over smoothly, apart from our alchemist. He is a lost cause.
hmm so here's my thoughts, when coming from the 'dense' editions like PF and 4e, and trying to convert a character you need to take an extra step to distill the most essential elements of the character: what does she *need* to be able to do to be her? In your last post you wrote this:
What I have set in stone is the fact she is a feyblood elf, mostly wizard with a forced criminal backstory. She used to specialize in disabling magical traps and getting into the most secure vaults to get those shiny magical things or the forbidden scrolls and books.
Now in terms of race you have two key options here, the High Elf from the PHB, and the Eladrin from MTOF, in terms of stat bonuses, the high elf would be the go to as the eladrin gets charisma instead of intelligence. However in this instance I would feel tempted to make something of an exception and point you instead at the eladrin for it's teleportation features, which should be useful in bypassing these magical traps. On that note i'd question, does this character *have* to be a wizard?
I'd be tempted to consider a bard (which I understand, are very different from PF bards) they are full casters, who use charisma as their casting stat and have a near unmatched ability to pump their skills, like stealth and so forth. They also have lots of magic that's on the "tricksier" side and can be considered specialists in illusions and enchantment while still being able to blast, and might suit your concept pretty well. A lore bard could very well make a great spell thief who knows a lot about arcane lore (and in fact, they have features that elt them use spells from any spell list in the game!), maybe with 3 rogue-thief levels mixed in for fast hands and more expertise in the things you need (like thieves tools!). It would benefit more from being an eladrin as well.
It has to be a wizard. I don't have a problem with Racial Ability Bonuses, those are quite fluent at our table. So she can be Eladrin with Dex and Int bonus.
She was created as one of my first ever DnD characters, with the help of the PF background generator. Some might cringe, but I loved the difficulty of creating a story with the sometimes totally conflicting results. And as such, she is a member of an old wizard bloodline, nobility amongst the wizarding community. But due to events various, war the main one but jealousy and greed right behind, her family's house was almost razed to the ground and all their knowledge was looted and stolen. Now she is on a quest to regain the lost spellbooks and artifacts as well as discover new ones. The only heirloom she still possesses is a family signet which was also her bound object, the arcane focus.
The key features of the character for me are:
- wizard class
- feyblood elf, aka Eladrin
- proficiency in Stealth, Thieves Tools and disabling Magical Traps and Barriers
Nice to have (not neccessary but a past feature of the character) would be:
- Mage Hand as per the Arcane Trickster Rogue archetype;
One possibility, and a thing that I like about 5e is how abilities come in at regular intervals.
You dislike Arcane Trickster being it's 2/3s Rogue and 1/3 Wizard. Just like Eldtrich Knight is 2/3 Fighter and 1/3 Wizard, the Blade Singer is 2/3 Wizard and 1/3 Fighter.
It would be home brew, but it shouldn't be two hard to make Roguish version using Blade Singer as a template. It at least gives a good template to work from.
I'd recommend NOT trying to import Sneak Attack. You'll get some abilities at 2nd, 6th, 10th, and 14th.
It has to be a wizard. I don't have a problem with Racial Ability Bonuses, those are quite fluent at our table. So she can be Eladrin with Dex and Int bonus.
She was created as one of my first ever DnD characters, with the help of the PF background generator. Some might cringe, but I loved the difficulty of creating a story with the sometimes totally conflicting results. And as such, she is a member of an old wizard bloodline, nobility amongst the wizarding community. But due to events various, war the main one but jealousy and greed right behind, her family's house was almost razed to the ground and all their knowledge was looted and stolen. Now she is on a quest to regain the lost spellbooks and artifacts as well as discover new ones. The only heirloom she still possesses is a family signet which was also her bound object, the arcane focus.
The key features of the character for me are:
- wizard class
- feyblood elf, aka Eladrin
- proficiency in Stealth, Thieves Tools and disabling Magical Traps and Barriers
Nice to have (not neccessary but a past feature of the character) would be:
- Mage Hand as per the Arcane Trickster Rogue archetype;
- the ability to "see" magic;
Then I suggest taking arcane trickster rogue up to 13th level, and taking the remaining seven levels in the wizard (probably the blade singer to pull the build together?) that should get you casting reasonably powerful spells and the advanced mage hand shenanigans at 13, and should be perfectly effective character. Mixing it with bladesigner for bladesong should net you excellent AC, divination wizard might be more helpful for enhancing your senses and letting you see things by level 6 (also portent is always wonderful), as well as making your casts of detect magic easier on your resources to overuse.
if you'd rather be mostly wizard, then I suggest 9 levels of rogue, and 11 levels of wizard, that nets you magical ambush and more spell levels (though your spells learned will be awkward, you'll be doing a lot of upcasting, if i'm not mistaken) but this build is more awkward- even though the build above is more rogue, i think it's much better for the kind of character you've described and should be more powerful.
Before anyone ask or points out, the Pathfinder Arcane Trickster is mostly a Wizard with some minor Rogue tweaks. They do get the Mage Hand stealing and disabling traps option. They severely lag behind in Sneak Dice. They are full casters. That is why the 5E Arcane Trickster does not cut it for me.
Problem is, I need to convert an already established character into 5E. So perhaps first an overall description of the character. So a bit of PF mess... Forgive me :D
She's an elf with a very strong feyblood mixture, which results in her ability to see magic as well as some minor bonuses to resistance against being charmed and stuff. For the sake of the Prestige Class, she had 2 levels of Rogue and 3 levels of Admixture Wizard. Admixture is a specialisation of Evocation School, allowing to shift the elements of evocation spells a few times a day, think of Fireball suddenly being Frostball or Thunderball. Thanks to one character trait, she was mitigating the 2 Rogue levels, maintaining a Caster Level equal to her Character level. Which more or less means she was only behind in spell levels not in the power of spells. The overall theme of the character was to create a Spellthief, as in someone who would steal spells while being a Wizard herself. Due to events the knowledge of her family was stolen and now she is on a path to recover it as well as gather new knowledge. Morality aside, she is just gathering all she can by any means necessary that arennot outright murder.
So far in 5E I have discovered that Eladrin would work best for this feyblood part, aside from seeing magic. For that I found only the Warlock's Eldritch Sight as equivalent, but also no means to get it. The only way to get the Mage Hand Tricks is to go 5E Arcane Trickster, which requires 3 level investment just for this one thing. While Expertise is cool and useful, similarly the Thieve's Cant, but I find them not necessary for my needs. From Wizard schools, I see that Admixture is not something that is available. I was thinking of Bladesinger or Illusion, because both work for the overall feel of the Wizardry Scoundrel.
A Rogue 3/Wizard 17 could possibly work, giving the base abilities of a PF Trickster, keeping the feel of the character. But here I am, asking if there is possibly an easier way to achieve Mage Hand Trickery?
" But here I am, asking if there is possibly an easier way to achieve Mage Hand Trickery?"
Shy of asking your DM for a custom magic item, feat or subclass, there is not.
OP, what is your goal here? If you want to play a thieving wizard who uses their mage hand to help them steal things using only written source mateirals, Rogue 3/Wizard X, and you're done. If you want to just make a thieving wizard, just be a wizard and steal things.
If you're trying to recreate a Pathfinder character perfectly, you're going to need to homebrew like Mephista said. Does your character have to have exactly the same set of skills/abilities? D&D has had stats for characters appear across versions, and they always update to whatever the current system allows (Look up Drizzt accross versions for a great example). You could just get it "close enough" and talk with your DM about maybe getting some quests to help restore other abilities/powers that aren't part of the core rules.
I believe that the Gith get an Invisible Mage hand as a racial ability. Maybe Ask your DM to reskin you as some sort of Half Elf? It would get you the invisble magehand in "legally" without multi classing.
As for the wizard side, Ive no clue.
My goal is mostly to recreate the character as closely as I can without too much homebrew hassle. Yes, she can cast Thieve's Mage Hand in PF. If she could in 5E, it would be epic.
I can't recreate the character perfectly. In PF she could solo bomb entire encounter with two Fireballs due to how Sneak Dice worked with AoE spells and the Metamagic mechanics of PF. She won't be able to do this here.
What I have set in stone is the fact she is a feyblood elf, mostly wizard with a forced criminal backstory. She used to specialize in disabling magical traps and getting into the most secure vaults to get those shiny magical things or the forbidden scrolls and books. From that point of view, Enchantment or Illusion sound like the schools to go for. If not, I will talk about homebrews.
I must say, prestige classes are hard to carry over the systems. The rest of the party moved over smoothly, apart from our alchemist. He is a lost cause.
hmm so here's my thoughts, when coming from the 'dense' editions like PF and 4e, and trying to convert a character you need to take an extra step to distill the most essential elements of the character: what does she *need* to be able to do to be her? In your last post you wrote this:
Now in terms of race you have two key options here, the High Elf from the PHB, and the Eladrin from MTOF, in terms of stat bonuses, the high elf would be the go to as the eladrin gets charisma instead of intelligence. However in this instance I would feel tempted to make something of an exception and point you instead at the eladrin for it's teleportation features, which should be useful in bypassing these magical traps. On that note i'd question, does this character *have* to be a wizard?
I'd be tempted to consider a bard (which I understand, are very different from PF bards) they are full casters, who use charisma as their casting stat and have a near unmatched ability to pump their skills, like stealth and so forth. They also have lots of magic that's on the "tricksier" side and can be considered specialists in illusions and enchantment while still being able to blast, and might suit your concept pretty well. A lore bard could very well make a great spell thief who knows a lot about arcane lore (and in fact, they have features that elt them use spells from any spell list in the game!), maybe with 3 rogue-thief levels mixed in for fast hands and more expertise in the things you need (like thieves tools!). It would benefit more from being an eladrin as well.
It has to be a wizard. I don't have a problem with Racial Ability Bonuses, those are quite fluent at our table. So she can be Eladrin with Dex and Int bonus.
She was created as one of my first ever DnD characters, with the help of the PF background generator. Some might cringe, but I loved the difficulty of creating a story with the sometimes totally conflicting results. And as such, she is a member of an old wizard bloodline, nobility amongst the wizarding community. But due to events various, war the main one but jealousy and greed right behind, her family's house was almost razed to the ground and all their knowledge was looted and stolen. Now she is on a quest to regain the lost spellbooks and artifacts as well as discover new ones. The only heirloom she still possesses is a family signet which was also her bound object, the arcane focus.
The key features of the character for me are:
- wizard class
- feyblood elf, aka Eladrin
- proficiency in Stealth, Thieves Tools and disabling Magical Traps and Barriers
Nice to have (not neccessary but a past feature of the character) would be:
- Mage Hand as per the Arcane Trickster Rogue archetype;
- the ability to "see" magic;
One possibility, and a thing that I like about 5e is how abilities come in at regular intervals.
You dislike Arcane Trickster being it's 2/3s Rogue and 1/3 Wizard.
Just like Eldtrich Knight is 2/3 Fighter and 1/3 Wizard, the Blade Singer is 2/3 Wizard and 1/3 Fighter.
It would be home brew, but it shouldn't be two hard to make Roguish version using Blade Singer as a template. It at least gives a good template to work from.
I'd recommend NOT trying to import Sneak Attack.
You'll get some abilities at 2nd, 6th, 10th, and 14th.
Then I suggest taking arcane trickster rogue up to 13th level, and taking the remaining seven levels in the wizard (probably the blade singer to pull the build together?) that should get you casting reasonably powerful spells and the advanced mage hand shenanigans at 13, and should be perfectly effective character. Mixing it with bladesigner for bladesong should net you excellent AC, divination wizard might be more helpful for enhancing your senses and letting you see things by level 6 (also portent is always wonderful), as well as making your casts of detect magic easier on your resources to overuse.
if you'd rather be mostly wizard, then I suggest 9 levels of rogue, and 11 levels of wizard, that nets you magical ambush and more spell levels (though your spells learned will be awkward, you'll be doing a lot of upcasting, if i'm not mistaken) but this build is more awkward- even though the build above is more rogue, i think it's much better for the kind of character you've described and should be more powerful.