Hi all, So in an ongoing game one of my players is running the Order of Scribes Wizard, and we have recently come into an interesting question of spell copying and spellbooks. As per the "Awakened Spellbook" feature, "...you can replace the book over the course of a short rest by using your Wizardly Quill to write arcane sigils in a blank book or a magic spellbook to which you're attuned. At the end of the rest, your spellbook's consciousness is summoned into the new book, which the consciousness transforms into your spellbook, along with all its spells". A couple of questions arise from this: 1) If they found say, an Enduring Spellbook, or a Spellshard, that already contained spells from a previous wizard/spellcaster, and they wanted to transfer their Awakened Spirit into the item, would that transfer essentially erase all the old spells from the item because it is neither blank nor an attuned item, meaning if the Wizard wanted those spells, they would need to copy them as normal first? 2) For attuned magic spellbooks, my understanding is that they give access to the abilities and spells in them as per normal, with the addition of the Awakened Spirit then adding the contents of the Wizards spellbook, but what if they later transferred the spirit to another attuned magic spellbook, would the spells within the first magic spellbook that they didn't possess originally also transfer, or would they lose those specific spells because they technically never scribed them? And could they scribe them, as they aren't technically formulas in a normal spellbook I don't think?
Any additional clarification on the matter would be rather helpful :)
For your first question: under Rules As Written, you can't use that feature at all with an Enduring Spellbook (or similar non-attuned item) that has other spells in it already. You would have to erase it first. In practice, if I were DMing, I'd probably let you do it at the cost of however much gold it would normally cost to copy the existing spells from that book into your spellbook.
For your second question, I think what we're talking about here is largely the various spellbook items that were introduced in Tasha's Cauldron of Everything. These items all say things like "When found, the book contains the following spells..." but it doesn't say that there's anything special about them. I'm inclined to think that if you take one of these things and make it your spellbook by transferring your Awakened Spirit into it, it is now your spellbook; rules and features that reference "your spellbook" now apply to it in its entirety. It doesn't matter that some of the spells in it were already there when you got it. Once a spell is in your spellbook, it works the same as all the others in there, regardless of where you got it.
How would you be able to erase an Enduring Spellbook, or Spellshard, out of curiosity?
I do think ruling they could still use the non-attuned ones by spending the gold cost is a good ruling. I see your point on the attuned spellbooks, automatically adding them to the wizards collection makes sense based on the wording, they would only be losing out on whatever special features the attuned book provides if they decide to transfer the Awakened Spirit into another one.
How would you be able to erase an Enduring Spellbook, or Spellshard, out of curiosity?
The rules don't provide any mechanic for doing this, but they also don't say it's impossible, so I think that's up to the DM to decide whether it's possible and how it would work. Perhaps just casting Dispel Magic on it, or maybe you need some special solvent whose cost scales with the spell levels, etc.
Piggybacking off from that I have a seperate question. So if I have one of the spell books that have spells in it such as the heart weavers primar and as stated it gives enthrall as a wizard spell wich isn't typically a wizard spell if I unattune from it then attune to say the planescallers codex does enthrall stay in my spell book but I cant cast/ prepare it?
Piggybacking off from that I have a seperate question. So if I have one of the spell books that have spells in it such as the heart weavers primar and as stated it gives enthrall as a wizard spell wich isn't typically a wizard spell if I unattune from it then attune to say the planescallers codex does enthrall stay in my spell book but I cant cast/ prepare it?
Strictly speaking, that item doesn't actually say it grants you those spells "as Wizard spells". However, I suspect this is an oversight, since all of the other similar spellbook items from Tasha's Cauldron of Everything that contain non-Wizard spells do say that. With the exception of this one, the only ones that don't say that are the ones where all the spells in them are already on the Wizard list.
If we were to assume that it's meant to work the way the other ones do, the other ones say the spells count as Wizard spells while you're attuned to the item. So, if you unattuned from it, you would not be able to cast or prepare spells from it that aren't on the Wizard list (in this case it's just Enthrall).
Lmao just noticed that same goes for fulminating treatise, alchemical compendium and duplicitus manuscripts...... but for the ones that say the "they count as wizard spells for you while attuned to this book" if I un attune from that spell book if I unattune from that would I still have it in my spell book but I cant access it in any way unless I reattune to it
Lmao just noticed that same goes for fulminating treatise, alchemical compendium and duplicitus manuscripts...... but for the ones that say the "they count as wizard spells for you while attuned to this book" if I un attune from that spell book if I unattune from that would I still have it in my spell book but I cant access it in any way unless I reattune to it
Yeah, I think that’s correct.
The ones that don’t have that phrase about the spells counting as Wizard spells are generally the ones that don’t need it, because all the spells are already Wizard spells. This one not having it is almost certainly a mistake.
for example from the libram of souls and flesh: id keep speak with dead in my spellbook even tho I have unattended from it but I cant actually use speak with dead since its not a wizard spell
for example from the libram of souls and flesh: id keep speak with dead in my spellbook even tho I have unattended from it but I cant actually use speak with dead since its not a wizard spell
Correct.
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Hi all,
So in an ongoing game one of my players is running the Order of Scribes Wizard, and we have recently come into an interesting question of spell copying and spellbooks.
As per the "Awakened Spellbook" feature, "...you can replace the book over the course of a short rest by using your Wizardly Quill to write arcane sigils in a blank book or a magic spellbook to which you're attuned. At the end of the rest, your spellbook's consciousness is summoned into the new book, which the consciousness transforms into your spellbook, along with all its spells". A couple of questions arise from this:
1) If they found say, an Enduring Spellbook, or a Spellshard, that already contained spells from a previous wizard/spellcaster, and they wanted to transfer their Awakened Spirit into the item, would that transfer essentially erase all the old spells from the item because it is neither blank nor an attuned item, meaning if the Wizard wanted those spells, they would need to copy them as normal first?
2) For attuned magic spellbooks, my understanding is that they give access to the abilities and spells in them as per normal, with the addition of the Awakened Spirit then adding the contents of the Wizards spellbook, but what if they later transferred the spirit to another attuned magic spellbook, would the spells within the first magic spellbook that they didn't possess originally also transfer, or would they lose those specific spells because they technically never scribed them? And could they scribe them, as they aren't technically formulas in a normal spellbook I don't think?
Any additional clarification on the matter would be rather helpful :)
For your first question: under Rules As Written, you can't use that feature at all with an Enduring Spellbook (or similar non-attuned item) that has other spells in it already. You would have to erase it first. In practice, if I were DMing, I'd probably let you do it at the cost of however much gold it would normally cost to copy the existing spells from that book into your spellbook.
For your second question, I think what we're talking about here is largely the various spellbook items that were introduced in Tasha's Cauldron of Everything. These items all say things like "When found, the book contains the following spells..." but it doesn't say that there's anything special about them. I'm inclined to think that if you take one of these things and make it your spellbook by transferring your Awakened Spirit into it, it is now your spellbook; rules and features that reference "your spellbook" now apply to it in its entirety. It doesn't matter that some of the spells in it were already there when you got it. Once a spell is in your spellbook, it works the same as all the others in there, regardless of where you got it.
pronouns: he/she/they
How would you be able to erase an Enduring Spellbook, or Spellshard, out of curiosity?
I do think ruling they could still use the non-attuned ones by spending the gold cost is a good ruling. I see your point on the attuned spellbooks, automatically adding them to the wizards collection makes sense based on the wording, they would only be losing out on whatever special features the attuned book provides if they decide to transfer the Awakened Spirit into another one.
The rules don't provide any mechanic for doing this, but they also don't say it's impossible, so I think that's up to the DM to decide whether it's possible and how it would work. Perhaps just casting Dispel Magic on it, or maybe you need some special solvent whose cost scales with the spell levels, etc.
pronouns: he/she/they
Piggybacking off from that I have a seperate question. So if I have one of the spell books that have spells in it such as the heart weavers primar and as stated it gives enthrall as a wizard spell wich isn't typically a wizard spell if I unattune from it then attune to say the planescallers codex does enthrall stay in my spell book but I cant cast/ prepare it?
Strictly speaking, that item doesn't actually say it grants you those spells "as Wizard spells". However, I suspect this is an oversight, since all of the other similar spellbook items from Tasha's Cauldron of Everything that contain non-Wizard spells do say that. With the exception of this one, the only ones that don't say that are the ones where all the spells in them are already on the Wizard list.
If we were to assume that it's meant to work the way the other ones do, the other ones say the spells count as Wizard spells while you're attuned to the item. So, if you unattuned from it, you would not be able to cast or prepare spells from it that aren't on the Wizard list (in this case it's just Enthrall).
pronouns: he/she/they
Lmao just noticed that same goes for fulminating treatise, alchemical compendium and duplicitus manuscripts...... but for the ones that say the "they count as wizard spells for you while attuned to this book" if I un attune from that spell book if I unattune from that would I still have it in my spell book but I cant access it in any way unless I reattune to it
Yeah, I think that’s correct.
The ones that don’t have that phrase about the spells counting as Wizard spells are generally the ones that don’t need it, because all the spells are already Wizard spells. This one not having it is almost certainly a mistake.
pronouns: he/she/they
for example from the libram of souls and flesh: id keep speak with dead in my spellbook even tho I have unattended from it but I cant actually use speak with dead since its not a wizard spell
Correct.
pronouns: he/she/they