I'm currently playing a wizard (necromancer) in a campaign. One of the other players is playing a moon druid. I've been trying to play the wizard in more of a control/buff/debuff role than a blaster role, especially since there used to be a sorcerer, who stopped playing and got replaced by an evoker, both of which are better blasters. But I've been noticing how the druid seems to perform better in that role, while not giving up either damage dealing or tanking. Part of the problem is how I, playing a wizard, need to pick and choose which spells I get automatically, and then cross my fingers, or meta-gamingly beg the DM for scrolls/spellbooks to get new ones, while the druid has all the spells available.
Basically, I've been playing the crack dealer (Haste-bot) for our barbarian (sometimes the fighter gets it), which I'm happy to do. I also always keep Tasha's Hideous Laughter prepared for single-target lockdown, but have been having bad luck with the saving throws. In general, though, it feels like the druid's doing a better job at control/debuff (Entangle, Faerie Fire, etc.) than me, having better tools for it, and is still doing better damage than me, and still gets better "minions" than me (I get animated skeletons, which I've outfitted with better gear, and they do pretty well, no complaints there... but the druid gets to summon Pixies, doesn't need to use a bonus action to give them orders, and doesn't need to deal with them outside of combat). Additionally, he gets to try out new spells, and if he doesn't like how it plays out, no problem... just won't prepare that one again. If I do that, I lost one of my learned spells, and need to rely on finding better ones on scrolls/spellbooks.
Anyway, yes, part of the reason for posting is to vent my frustration and druid envy... but mostly I'm asking for suggestions, be it particular spells I could be missing, or to forget about running control/debuff and focus more on direct damage, or something entirely different.
You need to talk to your DM and explain that when you find a scroll or spellbook it still takes time and gold to add those spells to your spellbook, and even then you gain absolutely nothing mechanic-wise except more choices. That is something every other spellcaster has already. Ask them if perhaps there is a way to flood your game with spells that you could add to your book, a library, scriptorium, or archive, maybe a friendly wizard (you would still need the time and gold unless the wizard has extra supplies).
If the DM doesn't realize the implicit imbalance inherit in the wizard class (they give up AC & hp for the power of spells, and then get no spells), you will have to bring it to their attention. Having a few more choices among your spells is not going to break anyone's game, it could quite possibly make that game.
Agree with Brian- Wizard features, generally speaking. do not make up for the trade off they are making with lower hp, lower AC and inflexibility on spell preparation vs other full caster classes. Granted they have the WIDEST toolbox of spells available to them but it is up to your DM to give you a reasonable opportunity to learn them.
Frankly as well, your DM is being a bit generous with your party druid unless I have mistaken what you said above. Conjure Woodland Beings should not reliably conjure Pixies. The DM gets to choose what is conjured and should be mixing it up based on situation and environment. Having a guaranteed army of friendly spell casters for a single 4th level spell is very generous on a consistent basis.
Also as a fellow Necromancer, the types of minions can feel limiting at times. I worked with my DM to give me a larger number of higher CR creatures to summon as well for flavor and fun. That may help a bit as well.
Lastly though- Druid spellcasting excels at control and buffs so if you are trying to fill that role with a wizard, there will naturally be some level of envy over the druid control spells. Very hard to beat the consistent utility of Entangle and Spike Growth.
I have talked to the DM about that, and he has been putting some scrolls/spellbooks/etc for me (and now the evoker) to learn new spells from, but, like you point out, it still takes time and money, and the selection is understandably limited. I would, of course, like more, but I can't, and don't, complain.
Regarding druid summons, we take a hybrid view: when it comes to animals, he gets to choose; when it comes to woodland beings, it's random. But there's still a decent chance to get the pixies, and even if they're not, they're still pretty good.
It seems I just have to adjust my expectations of my role, and add more damage spells to my repertoire. I don't think I'll mind, even if my druid envy doesn't go away altogether, hehe.
Keep in mind how many spells require concentration. Most of the buff/debuff/summoning spells are concentration spells so you're only able to have one of them active at a time.
The problem here is your trying to fill a support role and crowd control, and druids have more options for that than wizards with movement reduction, sight obscurement and reliable lower level conjured minions. What they don't have is burst damage spells that are on par with a mage. Your subclass doesnt help in this regard unless your nature loving friend is fine with undead walking around. You could consider thunderwave or other pushback or forced movement spells, when the druid uses spikegrowth sending someone for a tumble through the weeds can add nicely to your maneuver and works in synergy with them and prevents people attacking you. Alternatively surround an entangle or spikegrowth or miasma or (etc) with a wall of fire facing inwards and watch enemies cook whilst they try to escape, then push them back in, hilarity for the whole party. The reverse is also true, if you cast cloud of daggers a druids thornwhip can return a target to the blender, and if it dies om nom nom grim harvest hitpoints for you.
Bear in mind 6th is a good / bad level for moon druids the new more powerful form options arent... they arent great, and you have your minion buff (if they wont kill you for the depravity of raising them) but at 10th you will cry when they go elemental, until 14 and you kidnap a school bus (cart ) of diviner apprentices (lvl2) and go on a desert excursion for your Mummy lord power gamer accessory, an undying buddy and friend till the end for you - with cleric powers to boot - woo healing!
TL-DR, different classes are better at different levels but yes Moon druids, along with necromancers are amongst the game breaking single classed characters in the game. So have fun but remember, moon druids never sleep.
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I'm currently playing a wizard (necromancer) in a campaign. One of the other players is playing a moon druid. I've been trying to play the wizard in more of a control/buff/debuff role than a blaster role, especially since there used to be a sorcerer, who stopped playing and got replaced by an evoker, both of which are better blasters. But I've been noticing how the druid seems to perform better in that role, while not giving up either damage dealing or tanking. Part of the problem is how I, playing a wizard, need to pick and choose which spells I get automatically, and then cross my fingers, or meta-gamingly beg the DM for scrolls/spellbooks to get new ones, while the druid has all the spells available.
Basically, I've been playing the crack dealer (Haste-bot) for our barbarian (sometimes the fighter gets it), which I'm happy to do. I also always keep Tasha's Hideous Laughter prepared for single-target lockdown, but have been having bad luck with the saving throws. In general, though, it feels like the druid's doing a better job at control/debuff (Entangle, Faerie Fire, etc.) than me, having better tools for it, and is still doing better damage than me, and still gets better "minions" than me (I get animated skeletons, which I've outfitted with better gear, and they do pretty well, no complaints there... but the druid gets to summon Pixies, doesn't need to use a bonus action to give them orders, and doesn't need to deal with them outside of combat). Additionally, he gets to try out new spells, and if he doesn't like how it plays out, no problem... just won't prepare that one again. If I do that, I lost one of my learned spells, and need to rely on finding better ones on scrolls/spellbooks.
Anyway, yes, part of the reason for posting is to vent my frustration and druid envy... but mostly I'm asking for suggestions, be it particular spells I could be missing, or to forget about running control/debuff and focus more on direct damage, or something entirely different.
You need to talk to your DM and explain that when you find a scroll or spellbook it still takes time and gold to add those spells to your spellbook, and even then you gain absolutely nothing mechanic-wise except more choices. That is something every other spellcaster has already. Ask them if perhaps there is a way to flood your game with spells that you could add to your book, a library, scriptorium, or archive, maybe a friendly wizard (you would still need the time and gold unless the wizard has extra supplies).
If the DM doesn't realize the implicit imbalance inherit in the wizard class (they give up AC & hp for the power of spells, and then get no spells), you will have to bring it to their attention. Having a few more choices among your spells is not going to break anyone's game, it could quite possibly make that game.
Agree with Brian- Wizard features, generally speaking. do not make up for the trade off they are making with lower hp, lower AC and inflexibility on spell preparation vs other full caster classes. Granted they have the WIDEST toolbox of spells available to them but it is up to your DM to give you a reasonable opportunity to learn them.
Frankly as well, your DM is being a bit generous with your party druid unless I have mistaken what you said above. Conjure Woodland Beings should not reliably conjure Pixies. The DM gets to choose what is conjured and should be mixing it up based on situation and environment. Having a guaranteed army of friendly spell casters for a single 4th level spell is very generous on a consistent basis.
Also as a fellow Necromancer, the types of minions can feel limiting at times. I worked with my DM to give me a larger number of higher CR creatures to summon as well for flavor and fun. That may help a bit as well.
Lastly though- Druid spellcasting excels at control and buffs so if you are trying to fill that role with a wizard, there will naturally be some level of envy over the druid control spells. Very hard to beat the consistent utility of Entangle and Spike Growth.
I have talked to the DM about that, and he has been putting some scrolls/spellbooks/etc for me (and now the evoker) to learn new spells from, but, like you point out, it still takes time and money, and the selection is understandably limited. I would, of course, like more, but I can't, and don't, complain.
Regarding druid summons, we take a hybrid view: when it comes to animals, he gets to choose; when it comes to woodland beings, it's random. But there's still a decent chance to get the pixies, and even if they're not, they're still pretty good.
It seems I just have to adjust my expectations of my role, and add more damage spells to my repertoire. I don't think I'll mind, even if my druid envy doesn't go away altogether, hehe.
Thanks!
Keep in mind how many spells require concentration. Most of the buff/debuff/summoning spells are concentration spells so you're only able to have one of them active at a time.
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The problem here is your trying to fill a support role and crowd control, and druids have more options for that than wizards with movement reduction, sight obscurement and reliable lower level conjured minions. What they don't have is burst damage spells that are on par with a mage. Your subclass doesnt help in this regard unless your nature loving friend is fine with undead walking around. You could consider thunderwave or other pushback or forced movement spells, when the druid uses spikegrowth sending someone for a tumble through the weeds can add nicely to your maneuver and works in synergy with them and prevents people attacking you. Alternatively surround an entangle or spikegrowth or miasma or (etc) with a wall of fire facing inwards and watch enemies cook whilst they try to escape, then push them back in, hilarity for the whole party. The reverse is also true, if you cast cloud of daggers a druids thornwhip can return a target to the blender, and if it dies om nom nom grim harvest hitpoints for you.
Bear in mind 6th is a good / bad level for moon druids the new more powerful form options arent... they arent great, and you have your minion buff (if they wont kill you for the depravity of raising them) but at 10th you will cry when they go elemental, until 14 and you kidnap a school bus (cart ) of diviner apprentices (lvl2) and go on a desert excursion for your Mummy lord power gamer accessory, an undying buddy and friend till the end for you - with cleric powers to boot - woo healing!
TL-DR, different classes are better at different levels but yes Moon druids, along with necromancers are amongst the game breaking single classed characters in the game. So have fun but remember, moon druids never sleep.