If you make a Bladesinger that focuses heavily on Illusion, you are creating a melee battle controller that can easily get in and out of combat. Consider... this.
Lvl 4 is more or less free for whatever you desire. Dex is not a bad idea, Int is okay, although most spells I picked are rather DC based than raw DMG. Shadow Blade has no bonus from Int rather Dex. Con can help with maintaining Concentration and remaining alive. War Caster is an option, although I would only consider it, if you were to dual wield. Maybe with a whip for additional utility? Or a dagger for some ranged throws. Although nothing will beat the idea of a scimitar or rapier wielding lass with a Fire Bolt/Ball in the other hand.
Edit2:
Remeber that Booming Blade works with Shadow Blade, so at level 5 you drop 3d8 with a finesse weapon and can take a 5ft step away and laugh at the enemy, while having around 19AC with the Dex and Bladesong.
I like bladesinger with 2 levels paladin for fighting style (dueling usually), smite, and healing (spells and lay hands). Still get wizard level 18 feature, still a 19th level spell caster, and no paladin oaths.
As written you can dual wield. Whether that's what is intended is another story. It says you lose the blade song if you use two hands to make an attack with A weapon.
You didn't read it correctly. You can dual wield as written. It says and I quote " if you use two hands to make an attack with a weapon." Two hands on a weapon is a two handed weapon. So as written you can dual wield. Whether thats what was intended is another story.
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I generally prefer to keep spell slots and skip mage armor. And once Haste becomes available...well that's the other go to instead of shadow blade----+2 AC and extra attack....cast a spell and still hit with a sword.....
Why not Both? Mage armour + Bladesong bonus + Haste is AC20-23? Shield for 25-28 when needed? If you have a cleric available to buff you with Shield of faith as well that's another +2 AC while you're fighting. Unless you take 1 level in Barbarian because Con and Dex are important to Bladesingers, then you might have a base AC equal to or higher than what Mage armour gives you anyway.
You didn't read it correctly. You can dual wield as written. It says and I quote " if you use two hands to make an attack with a weapon." Two hands on a weapon is a two handed weapon. So as written you can dual wield. Whether thats what was intended is another story.
Ok so I’ve been thinking about this and tell me if it would work; PC Bladesinger 6/College of Swords Bard 4. Their feats are Elven Accuracy and War Caster, they took two weapon fighting style through College of Swords and they’re using a scimitar in one hand (it’s their arcane focus through college of swords) and shadowblade in the other. They’re within 5’ of an opponent and it’s the start of the ‘Bladebard’s’ turn. The PC takes the attack action with the shadow blade first. Now that an attack action had taken place, they can cast a cantrip - booming blade - with the scimitar. As their bonus action, they make an attack with the shadow blade.
A.Does this work?
B.What other cantrips can we cast with a blade in each hand? With Warcaster and his scimitar as a spell focus, neither somatic nor unnamed material components are needed. They can speak freely so verbal is fine
C. If they had a shadow blade in one hand and nothing in the other, attacked with SB then cast Shocking grasp, would shocking grasp get the caster’s ABILITY MODIFIER as a bonus to damage? I ask bc of this line in the two weapon style fighting text;
Two-Weapon Fighting
When you engage in two-weapon fighting, you can add your ability modifier to the damage of the second attack.
We are engaging in two-weapon fighting, shocking grasp is an attack (and I’m getting super advantage if they’re wearing metal armour) so does two-weapon fighting style apply here and the PC can apply ABILITY damage to the spell? Btw would that ability damage be from DEX or what the spell casting ability is? (INT in this case).
You didn't read it correctly. You can dual wield as written. It says and I quote " if you use two hands to make an attack with a weapon." Two hands on a weapon is a two handed weapon. So as written you can dual wield. Whether thats what was intended is another story.
Ok so I’ve been thinking about this and tell me if it would work; PC Bladesinger 6/College of Swords Bard 4. Their feats are Elven Accuracy and War Caster, they took two weapon fighting style through College of Swords and they’re using a scimitar in one hand (it’s their arcane focus through college of swords) and shadowblade in the other. They’re within 5’ of an opponent and it’s the start of the ‘Bladebard’s’ turn. The PC takes the attack action with the shadow blade first. Now that an attack action had taken place, they can cast a cantrip - booming blade - with the scimitar. As their bonus action, they make an attack with the shadow blade.
A.Does this work?
B.What other cantrips can we cast with a blade in each hand? With Warcaster and his scimitar as a spell focus, neither somatic nor unnamed material components are needed. They can speak freely so verbal is fine
C. If they had a shadow blade in one hand and nothing in the other, attacked with SB then cast Shocking grasp, would shocking grasp get the caster’s ABILITY MODIFIER as a bonus to damage? I ask bc of this line in the two weapon style fighting text;
Two-Weapon Fighting
When you engage in two-weapon fighting, you can add your ability modifier to the damage of the second attack.
We are engaging in two-weapon fighting, shocking grasp is an attack (and I’m getting super advantage if they’re wearing metal armour) so does two-weapon fighting style apply here and the PC can apply ABILITY damage to the spell? Btw would that ability damage be from DEX or what the spell casting ability is? (INT in this case).
Yes that would work. I don't think it is the best way to play a bladesinger though.
You do need the warcaster if you are dual wielding because you need to be able to shield or absorb elements and warcaster is not something I would normally want to take in this build. You want to pump Dexterity and Intelligence both to make this work. In that respect a half feat is a good idea, if you set it up with an odd (15 or 17) dexterity or intelligence, but something like warcaster really puts you behind.
The other thing is shadowblade. You are likely going to get plastered using this at medium to high level in melee. Blur or protection from good and evil should be your go to spells or if fighting something that sees through illusions and is not a Fey/Fiend/Cellestial/abberation; then go with Haste and upcast false life.
From a damage perspective shadowblade is not that great unless you are fighting in dim light or darkness regularly. At level 5 TWF with a scimitar and SB is going to do 5d8+1d6+2*dex, that is 26+dex. For comparison if you went with Fey Touched instead of EA - using two scimitars and Hex is going to give you 6d6+1d8 or 25.5+dex. This is one half point less per turn while using a lower level spell slot. Or you could go with just a Rapier and do 3d8+2d6 or 21.5+2*dex while still having a hand free and not needing warcaster.
When I play a bladesinger I build him like a tank in terms of spell selection and to be honest a bladesinger is just about the best tank in the game if you get the right spells, but shadow blade is going to make that difficult. If you are going to kite in and out of battle it SB is ok, but you are going to need more feats to do this or you are going to need to burn slots with misty step (also eliminating TWF). You are going to need to use defensive spells if your intent is to play Gandalf and stand in front of the Balor and shout "you shall not pass"
You didn't read it correctly. You can dual wield as written. It says and I quote " if you use two hands to make an attack with a weapon." Two hands on a weapon is a two handed weapon. So as written you can dual wield. Whether thats what was intended is another story.
Ok so I’ve been thinking about this and tell me if it would work; PC Bladesinger 6/College of Swords Bard 4. Their feats are Elven Accuracy and War Caster, they took two weapon fighting style through College of Swords and they’re using a scimitar in one hand (it’s their arcane focus through college of swords) and shadowblade in the other. They’re within 5’ of an opponent and it’s the start of the ‘Bladebard’s’ turn. The PC takes the attack action with the shadow blade first. Now that an attack action had taken place, they can cast a cantrip - booming blade - with the scimitar. As their bonus action, they make an attack with the shadow blade.
A.Does this work?
B.What other cantrips can we cast with a blade in each hand? With Warcaster and his scimitar as a spell focus, neither somatic nor unnamed material components are needed. They can speak freely so verbal is fine
C. If they had a shadow blade in one hand and nothing in the other, attacked with SB then cast Shocking grasp, would shocking grasp get the caster’s ABILITY MODIFIER as a bonus to damage? I ask bc of this line in the two weapon style fighting text;
Two-Weapon Fighting
When you engage in two-weapon fighting, you can add your ability modifier to the damage of the second attack.
We are engaging in two-weapon fighting, shocking grasp is an attack (and I’m getting super advantage if they’re wearing metal armour) so does two-weapon fighting style apply here and the PC can apply ABILITY damage to the spell? Btw would that ability damage be from DEX or what the spell casting ability is? (INT in this case).
Yes that would work. I don't think it is the best way to play a bladesinger though.
- Thanks for the thoughtful comments, this really helps!
*1. “You do need the warcaster if you are dual wielding because you need to be able to shield or absorb elements and warcaster is not something I would normally want to take in this build.”
*2. “You want to pump Dexterity and Intelligence both to make this work.”
*3. “The other thing is shadowblade. You are likely going to get plastered using this at medium to high level in melee.”
*4. “When I play a bladesinger I build him like a tank in terms of spell selection and “to be honest a bladesinger is just about the best tank in the game if you get the right spells”
*5.“or you are going to need to burn slots with misty step (also eliminating TWF)”
1. What does Warcaster have to do with Duel wielding and casting… oh yeah. Well, that was the idea all along 😉
2. They start out with DEX 18, INT 17 and take elven Accuracy at 4th.
3. Yeah, it was more of a low to mid lvl spell only unless later on I see the opportunity to upcast it when we’re in a shadowy area.
4. Ok! What are your go-to tank spells then?!
5. I’d only Misty Step out if I had to and Duel Wielding wouldn’t change that, only making it possible to do so after taking Warcaster.
For me the ability to duel wield and cast spell is great, but the advantage on concentration saves is the gold plus casting a spell as a reaction is pretty sick as well.
Let me know what you think and where you disagree 👍
*1. “You do need the warcaster if you are dual wielding because you need to be able to shield or absorb elements and warcaster is not something I would normally want to take in this build.”
*2. “You want to pump Dexterity and Intelligence both to make this work.”
*3. “The other thing is shadowblade. You are likely going to get plastered using this at medium to high level in melee.”
*4. “When I play a bladesinger I build him like a tank in terms of spell selection and “to be honest a bladesinger is just about the best tank in the game if you get the right spells”
*5.“or you are going to need to burn slots with misty step (also eliminating TWF)”
1. What does Warcaster have to do with Duel wielding and casting… oh yeah. Well, that was the idea all along 😉
2. They start out with DEX 18, INT 17 and take elven Accuracy at 4th.
3. Yeah, it was more of a low to mid lvl spell only unless later on I see the opportunity to upcast it when we’re in a shadowy area.
4. Ok! What are your go-to tank spells then?!
5. I’d only Misty Step out if I had to and Duel Wielding wouldn’t change that, only making it possible to do so after taking Warcaster.
For me the ability to duel wield and cast spell is great, but the advantage on concentration saves is the gold plus casting a spell as a reaction is pretty sick as well.
Let me know what you think and where you disagree 👍
2. You can't start with those stats on point buy or standard array and it is very unlikely you are going to roll this high. If you already rolled this high though, I would take a half feat that raises intelligence to 18 rather than one that raises dexterity to 19. Having crazy high rolls like this certainly pouts you ahead of the game either way though and makes getting something like warcaster less of a negative.
3. Got it.
4. Here they are in order.
Absorb Elements and Shield - these two are your biggest, combined with the disadvantage you are going to be running and the extra temp hps they will kill hits and reduce damage on AOEs. AE does not work on everything, but it works on a lot.
Protection from Good and Evil: If you are fighting an enemy that is aberrations, celestials, elementals, fey, fiends, and undead Protection from Good and Evil should be your action on turn 1. This not only gives them disadvantage it also protects you from fear and charmed/ Also it lasts 10 minutes so you have the ability to cast it a little ahead of time.
Blur or Greater Invisibility: For enemies NOT affected by PGE, Blur or GI is the first turn action for tanking. If you need to concentrate on something else (which should be rare in a tough fight) then Mirror Image. MI would be the play in turn 1 if I was going to go with SB and try to hold the line.
False Life - upcast at 3rd or higher level. Typically use the highest level slot you have after you reach level 5. Do this before the battle but when you suspect there will be a battle within an hour. This will put you on par with a martial in terms of hps but with equal or better AC, forced disadvantage and halving elemental damage. If you have a Warlock level upcast Armor of Agathys is even better.
Fire Shield - On the rare occasion you get hit, the guy hitting you gets damaged as well. Cast ahead of time, not worth casting once in combat though.
Contingency-False life - Once you have the levels, you should maintain a contingency running with a 5th-level false life. Depending on your DM set the conditions that will work to be kind of complex. I used an "or" in the setup where it would go off if I took damage that reduced me below 50% hps OR when my character said "fiddlestix", which I could do without an action. This was an extra 21-24 temp hps on tap whenever I wanted them.
Every fight is different but those are the general tanking spells. You could probably add silvery barbs now too, but I did not have that when I have played these. Like I said abovein my earlier post, if you are fighting a rare enemy that is not affected by PGE and can see through illusions then Haste is probably your option, but blur/PGE/GI are better if they work.
5. With the stats you have you can do it without misty step and still afford to get warcaster, but I do think you are still going to need blur, GI or PGE to be a front liner. If you have these up and shield on tap you actually don't need to worry about AOOs, because they are unlikely to hit.
The advantage on concentration spells is not that important because you add intelligence to concentration saves in bladesong, you won't get hit very much and when you are caught in an AOE the damage will usually be reduced, making it an easy save. It certainly does not hurt though and you do need warcaster to dual wield effectively anyway.
Spell as a reaction is not that great because most of the time you are not going to want to burn your reaction unless you know you are not going to need it later in the round. This is especially true of the DM turns the tables on you (as mine did). With blur or PGE up, my bladesinger regularly would move just to cause AOOs so another player could kite in and out with impunity. The chance of hitting me was really small anyway. Eventually the DM got the same idea and would have an enemy try to draw an AOO from me just so another could come in and attack me when I could not throw shield. Now I did not have spells to use so my AOO was weaker, but none the less you need to save your reactions generally. As a resuly I rarely made AOOs, when you can do it though, you are right it is awesome if you can use a spell.
In Descent into Avernus our party fought Bel at 13th level, and he summoned in some major devils to help him. My bladesinger (Rogue4/bladesinger 9) lost 8 real hps in the entire battle. I believe all of the hp lost were from 4 or 5 fireballs that wiped out my temp hps (I made my all my saves and used AE reducing damage to 25%). He never actually hit me in combat.
This is awesome thank you so much for taking the time to respond so thoroughly! I’ll be heading your advice and ha I’m actually running a DiA campaign in another group and they’re at level 7 (no bladesinger in this one… yet)
oh and with elven accuracy you can chose to add +1 to either dex, chr, wis or int. 👍
Personally Mage armor with this class is absolutely busted
So with my character I get 14AC, I cast mage asap Mage armor which since I have +3 dex rn that boost me to 16AC, then since I ahve two rapier ready at all times to add a +1 to that with Dual Wielder....then when I get the chance or if the fight get serious I use blade song so now I am at 21AC....and then you can use Defensive Duelist or the Shield spell
So my character can go from 14 to 26AC and if I boost my Dex to max there is the potential to get 29AC without ever equiping single piece of armor.....plus I also have absorb elements and Blade ward. 😁
In short I am the tank of my party as the wizard... I have a very patient and supportive DM and most enemies we face have counterspell or very creative countermeasure to my shenanigans.
Personally Mage armor with this class is absolutely busted
So with my character I get 14AC, I cast mage asap Mage armor which since I have +3 dex rn that boost me to 16AC, then since I ahve two rapier ready at all times to add a +1 to that with Dual Wielder....then when I get the chance or if the fight get serious I use blade song so now I am at 21AC....and then you can use Defensive Duelist or the Shield spell
So my character can go from 14 to 26AC and if I boost my Dex to max there is the potential to get 29AC without ever equiping single piece of armor.....plus I also have absorb elements and Blade ward. 😁
In short I am the tank of my party as the wizard... I have a very patient and supportive DM and most enemies we face have counterspell or very creative countermeasure to my shenanigans.
Yeah that kind of AC is pretty common for a bladesinger. It is not Mage Armor, though it is bladesong and you could use studded leather and be just 1 point worse.
One thing to note though, if you are carrying two Rapiers you can't cast shield unless you have the warcaster feat, defensive duelist is no replacement for Shield because it only affects one enemy. Warcaster and dual wielder is two feats, which means no ASI until 12th level.
Honestly, if they are going to allow two-weapon fighting as a Bladesinger they should allow versatile property weapons, there is only a handful of them and they weigh as much as two 'light" weapons and are a max of 1d10 damage. The original Bladesinger kit from "The Complete Book of the Elves" when it was first created in D&D lore during 2nd edition even recommends that Bladesingers take the two-handed weapon style for when spells run out, it goes on to say that they will fight one-handed or with two-hands on their single weapon.
I feel they could have done more with the Bladesinger design. It was the first subclass for wizards that wasn't in the PHB and was years before the hexblade/artificer. The Bladesinger should have been given a signature weapon to use their INT stat with attacks and damage rolls. They give you this nice side blurb about the different schools of Bladesingers and the weapons they use in The Sword Coast Adventurers Guide then they give you the finger and imply you use a finesse weapon since those others use Strength "OH, this is traditionally an Elven Subclass and Elves get a free Longsword proficiency but we don't want you using that longsword, you might hurt yourself, LOL get bent, go use a rapier NOOB. Do you want to use a longsword and not use strength as your attack stat? Wait a few years and we will give it to the other subclasses" They basically force DM's to homebrew changes to cover up their ineptitude.
So again I need to thank our DM we had started this campaign at the release of Tasha Cauldron of Everything, but since we had an issue with the custom lineage to share they were cool enough just to let everyone have 1feats at the start and we had started our campaign at lvl 4 so we got 2 feats from the start. Also this way they could up the difficulty of the encounters we were facing.
So I ended up picking warcaster and dual wielder
Though again variant humans and custom lineage (though I know some have mixed opionions of) can allow you to have an extra feat and pick up another at lvl 4 and get ASI from there
Also good to know about studded leather armor, I mean rn my 1st level spell are being saved for defensive options (shield, absorb elements, and mage armor with find familiar and alarm as ritual spells) with higher lvl spell slots serving as my main offensive options (haste, and or shadowblade depending on situation) , but in the future might pick up studded leather armor to save the spell slot.
Lastly I mentioned defensive duelist which I get is single target but it's an option that is avaiable if you do not want to waste a spell on shield or do not have a slot to cast it (shield is def the better option though)
Lastly I mentioned defensive duelist which I get is single target but it's an option that is avaiable if you do not want to waste a spell on shield or do not have a slot to cast it (shield is def the better option though)
I think you are better off with a dexterity or intelligence ASI as that raises AC by 1 all the time (or all the time in bladesong in the case of intelligence).
You are a wizard, you are probably not going to run out of slots. Prepared spells is a bigger problem and having a higher intelligence helps there too.
I would take resilient (con) over warcaster, but that's just my personal preference. Reason being that you rely on those concentration spells and you will be a lot in melee if you are utilizing all the subclass potentials. Profficiency in concentration checks goes a long way. I understand the logic behind warcaster, which is shield and absorb elements whilst dual wielding but it's not required. As part of your reaction, you cast shield/absorb elements and whilst you perform the somatic component, your weapon drops on the floor (since you need a free hand). Just pick it up on your next turn. Or, sheathe 1 weapon when your turn ends. You will however loose 1AC due to not satisfying dual wielder.
I would take resilient (con) over warcaster, but that's just my personal preference. Reason being that you rely on those concentration spells and you will be a lot in melee if you are utilizing all the subclass potentials. Profficiency in concentration checks goes a long way. I understand the logic behind warcaster, which is shield and absorb elements whilst dual wielding but it's not required. As part of your reaction, you cast shield/absorb elements and whilst you perform the somatic component, your weapon drops on the floor (since you need a free hand). Just pick it up on your next turn. Or, sheathe 1 weapon when your turn ends. You will however loose 1AC due to not satisfying dual wielder.
Warcaster gives advantage on concentration saves too, which is going to be better than proficiency at most levels. Additionally in bladesong you have your intelligence bonus.
Drop the weapon during the reaction is an interesting idea.
It's raw to drop you weapon, and also absurd. I will make some random chance for it to bounce 5-10 feet away, and certainly prioritize someone picking it up.
It's raw to drop you weapon, and also absurd. I will make some random chance for it to bounce 5-10 feet away, and certainly prioritize someone picking it up.
I'm not sure it is RAW. Free Object Interactions are taken as a part of Movement and Actions, not Reactions, so you can't drop an object as a part of a Reaction if doing so requires a Free Object Interaction. But I 100% agree that the whole drop/use a free hand/pick up thing is absurd.
*grumble*
https://ddb.ac/characters/5993664/fWHgEn
Now?
Edit:
In case I botched something again.
High Elf: 8, 16, 14, 16, 12, 8
Lvl 4 is more or less free for whatever you desire. Dex is not a bad idea, Int is okay, although most spells I picked are rather DC based than raw DMG. Shadow Blade has no bonus from Int rather Dex. Con can help with maintaining Concentration and remaining alive. War Caster is an option, although I would only consider it, if you were to dual wield. Maybe with a whip for additional utility? Or a dagger for some ranged throws. Although nothing will beat the idea of a scimitar or rapier wielding lass with a Fire Bolt/Ball in the other hand.
Edit2:
Remeber that Booming Blade works with Shadow Blade, so at level 5 you drop 3d8 with a finesse weapon and can take a 5ft step away and laugh at the enemy, while having around 19AC with the Dex and Bladesong.
I like bladesinger with 2 levels paladin for fighting style (dueling usually), smite, and healing (spells and lay hands). Still get wizard level 18 feature, still a 19th level spell caster, and no paladin oaths.
Rules as written, you can smite with GFB and BB.
As written you can dual wield. Whether that's what is intended is another story. It says you lose the blade song if you use two hands to make an attack with A weapon.
You didn't read it correctly. You can dual wield as written. It says and I quote " if you use two hands to make an attack with a weapon." Two hands on a weapon is a two handed weapon. So as written you can dual wield. Whether thats what was intended is another story.
Why not Both? Mage armour + Bladesong bonus + Haste is AC20-23? Shield for 25-28 when needed?
If you have a cleric available to buff you with Shield of faith as well that's another +2 AC while you're fighting.
Unless you take 1 level in Barbarian because Con and Dex are important to Bladesingers, then you might have a base AC equal to or higher than what Mage armour gives you anyway.
Ok so I’ve been thinking about this and tell me if it would work; PC Bladesinger 6/College of Swords Bard 4. Their feats are Elven Accuracy and War Caster, they took two weapon fighting style through College of Swords and they’re using a scimitar in one hand (it’s their arcane focus through college of swords) and shadowblade in the other. They’re within 5’ of an opponent and it’s the start of the ‘Bladebard’s’ turn.
The PC takes the attack action with the shadow blade first. Now that an attack action had taken place, they can cast a cantrip - booming blade - with the scimitar. As their bonus action, they make an attack with the shadow blade.
A.Does this work?
B.What other cantrips can we cast with a blade in each hand? With Warcaster and his scimitar as a spell focus, neither somatic nor unnamed material components are needed. They can speak freely so verbal is fine
C. If they had a shadow blade in one hand and nothing in the other, attacked with SB then cast Shocking grasp, would shocking grasp get the caster’s ABILITY MODIFIER as a bonus to damage? I ask bc of this line in the two weapon style fighting text;
Two-Weapon Fighting
When you engage in two-weapon fighting, you can add your ability modifier to the damage of the second attack.
We are engaging in two-weapon fighting, shocking grasp is an attack (and I’m getting super advantage if they’re wearing metal armour) so does two-weapon fighting style apply here and the PC can apply ABILITY damage to the spell? Btw would that ability damage be from DEX or what the spell casting ability is? (INT in this case).
Yes that would work. I don't think it is the best way to play a bladesinger though.
You do need the warcaster if you are dual wielding because you need to be able to shield or absorb elements and warcaster is not something I would normally want to take in this build. You want to pump Dexterity and Intelligence both to make this work. In that respect a half feat is a good idea, if you set it up with an odd (15 or 17) dexterity or intelligence, but something like warcaster really puts you behind.
The other thing is shadowblade. You are likely going to get plastered using this at medium to high level in melee. Blur or protection from good and evil should be your go to spells or if fighting something that sees through illusions and is not a Fey/Fiend/Cellestial/abberation; then go with Haste and upcast false life.
From a damage perspective shadowblade is not that great unless you are fighting in dim light or darkness regularly. At level 5 TWF with a scimitar and SB is going to do 5d8+1d6+2*dex, that is 26+dex. For comparison if you went with Fey Touched instead of EA - using two scimitars and Hex is going to give you 6d6+1d8 or 25.5+dex. This is one half point less per turn while using a lower level spell slot. Or you could go with just a Rapier and do 3d8+2d6 or 21.5+2*dex while still having a hand free and not needing warcaster.
When I play a bladesinger I build him like a tank in terms of spell selection and to be honest a bladesinger is just about the best tank in the game if you get the right spells, but shadow blade is going to make that difficult. If you are going to kite in and out of battle it SB is ok, but you are going to need more feats to do this or you are going to need to burn slots with misty step (also eliminating TWF). You are going to need to use defensive spells if your intent is to play Gandalf and stand in front of the Balor and shout "you shall not pass"
1. What does Warcaster have to do with Duel wielding and casting… oh yeah. Well, that was the idea all along 😉
2. They start out with DEX 18, INT 17 and take elven Accuracy at 4th.
3. Yeah, it was more of a low to mid lvl spell only unless later on I see the opportunity to upcast it when we’re in a shadowy area.
4. Ok! What are your go-to tank spells then?!
5. I’d only Misty Step out if I had to and Duel Wielding wouldn’t change that, only making it possible to do so after taking Warcaster.
For me the ability to duel wield and cast spell is great, but the advantage on concentration saves is the gold plus casting a spell as a reaction is pretty sick as well.
Let me know what you think and where you disagree 👍
2. You can't start with those stats on point buy or standard array and it is very unlikely you are going to roll this high. If you already rolled this high though, I would take a half feat that raises intelligence to 18 rather than one that raises dexterity to 19. Having crazy high rolls like this certainly pouts you ahead of the game either way though and makes getting something like warcaster less of a negative.
3. Got it.
4. Here they are in order.
Absorb Elements and Shield - these two are your biggest, combined with the disadvantage you are going to be running and the extra temp hps they will kill hits and reduce damage on AOEs. AE does not work on everything, but it works on a lot.
Protection from Good and Evil: If you are fighting an enemy that is aberrations, celestials, elementals, fey, fiends, and undead Protection from Good and Evil should be your action on turn 1. This not only gives them disadvantage it also protects you from fear and charmed/ Also it lasts 10 minutes so you have the ability to cast it a little ahead of time.
Blur or Greater Invisibility: For enemies NOT affected by PGE, Blur or GI is the first turn action for tanking. If you need to concentrate on something else (which should be rare in a tough fight) then Mirror Image. MI would be the play in turn 1 if I was going to go with SB and try to hold the line.
False Life - upcast at 3rd or higher level. Typically use the highest level slot you have after you reach level 5. Do this before the battle but when you suspect there will be a battle within an hour. This will put you on par with a martial in terms of hps but with equal or better AC, forced disadvantage and halving elemental damage. If you have a Warlock level upcast Armor of Agathys is even better.
Fire Shield - On the rare occasion you get hit, the guy hitting you gets damaged as well. Cast ahead of time, not worth casting once in combat though.
Contingency-False life - Once you have the levels, you should maintain a contingency running with a 5th-level false life. Depending on your DM set the conditions that will work to be kind of complex. I used an "or" in the setup where it would go off if I took damage that reduced me below 50% hps OR when my character said "fiddlestix", which I could do without an action. This was an extra 21-24 temp hps on tap whenever I wanted them.
Every fight is different but those are the general tanking spells. You could probably add silvery barbs now too, but I did not have that when I have played these. Like I said abovein my earlier post, if you are fighting a rare enemy that is not affected by PGE and can see through illusions then Haste is probably your option, but blur/PGE/GI are better if they work.
5. With the stats you have you can do it without misty step and still afford to get warcaster, but I do think you are still going to need blur, GI or PGE to be a front liner. If you have these up and shield on tap you actually don't need to worry about AOOs, because they are unlikely to hit.
The advantage on concentration spells is not that important because you add intelligence to concentration saves in bladesong, you won't get hit very much and when you are caught in an AOE the damage will usually be reduced, making it an easy save. It certainly does not hurt though and you do need warcaster to dual wield effectively anyway.
Spell as a reaction is not that great because most of the time you are not going to want to burn your reaction unless you know you are not going to need it later in the round. This is especially true of the DM turns the tables on you (as mine did). With blur or PGE up, my bladesinger regularly would move just to cause AOOs so another player could kite in and out with impunity. The chance of hitting me was really small anyway. Eventually the DM got the same idea and would have an enemy try to draw an AOO from me just so another could come in and attack me when I could not throw shield. Now I did not have spells to use so my AOO was weaker, but none the less you need to save your reactions generally. As a resuly I rarely made AOOs, when you can do it though, you are right it is awesome if you can use a spell.
In Descent into Avernus our party fought Bel at 13th level, and he summoned in some major devils to help him. My bladesinger (Rogue4/bladesinger 9) lost 8 real hps in the entire battle. I believe all of the hp lost were from 4 or 5 fireballs that wiped out my temp hps (I made my all my saves and used AE reducing damage to 25%). He never actually hit me in combat.
This is awesome thank you so much for taking the time to respond so thoroughly! I’ll be heading your advice and ha I’m actually running a DiA campaign in another group and they’re at level 7 (no bladesinger in this one… yet)
oh and with elven accuracy you can chose to add +1 to either dex, chr, wis or int. 👍
Personally Mage armor with this class is absolutely busted
So with my character I get 14AC, I cast mage asap Mage armor which since I have +3 dex rn that boost me to 16AC, then since I ahve two rapier ready at all times to add a +1 to that with Dual Wielder....then when I get the chance or if the fight get serious I use blade song so now I am at 21AC....and then you can use Defensive Duelist or the Shield spell
So my character can go from 14 to 26AC and if I boost my Dex to max there is the potential to get 29AC without ever equiping single piece of armor.....plus I also have absorb elements and Blade ward. 😁
In short I am the tank of my party as the wizard... I have a very patient and supportive DM and most enemies we face have counterspell or very creative countermeasure to my shenanigans.
Yeah that kind of AC is pretty common for a bladesinger. It is not Mage Armor, though it is bladesong and you could use studded leather and be just 1 point worse.
One thing to note though, if you are carrying two Rapiers you can't cast shield unless you have the warcaster feat, defensive duelist is no replacement for Shield because it only affects one enemy. Warcaster and dual wielder is two feats, which means no ASI until 12th level.
Honestly, if they are going to allow two-weapon fighting as a Bladesinger they should allow versatile property weapons, there is only a handful of them and they weigh as much as two 'light" weapons and are a max of 1d10 damage. The original Bladesinger kit from "The Complete Book of the Elves" when it was first created in D&D lore during 2nd edition even recommends that Bladesingers take the two-handed weapon style for when spells run out, it goes on to say that they will fight one-handed or with two-hands on their single weapon.
I feel they could have done more with the Bladesinger design. It was the first subclass for wizards that wasn't in the PHB and was years before the hexblade/artificer. The Bladesinger should have been given a signature weapon to use their INT stat with attacks and damage rolls. They give you this nice side blurb about the different schools of Bladesingers and the weapons they use in The Sword Coast Adventurers Guide then they give you the finger and imply you use a finesse weapon since those others use Strength "OH, this is traditionally an Elven Subclass and Elves get a free Longsword proficiency but we don't want you using that longsword, you might hurt yourself, LOL get bent, go use a rapier NOOB. Do you want to use a longsword and not use strength as your attack stat? Wait a few years and we will give it to the other subclasses" They basically force DM's to homebrew changes to cover up their ineptitude.
So again I need to thank our DM we had started this campaign at the release of Tasha Cauldron of Everything, but since we had an issue with the custom lineage to share they were cool enough just to let everyone have 1feats at the start and we had started our campaign at lvl 4 so we got 2 feats from the start. Also this way they could up the difficulty of the encounters we were facing.
So I ended up picking warcaster and dual wielder
Though again variant humans and custom lineage (though I know some have mixed opionions of) can allow you to have an extra feat and pick up another at lvl 4 and get ASI from there
Also good to know about studded leather armor, I mean rn my 1st level spell are being saved for defensive options (shield, absorb elements, and mage armor with find familiar and alarm as ritual spells) with higher lvl spell slots serving as my main offensive options (haste, and or shadowblade depending on situation) , but in the future might pick up studded leather armor to save the spell slot.
Lastly I mentioned defensive duelist which I get is single target but it's an option that is avaiable if you do not want to waste a spell on shield or do not have a slot to cast it (shield is def the better option though)
I think you are better off with a dexterity or intelligence ASI as that raises AC by 1 all the time (or all the time in bladesong in the case of intelligence).
You are a wizard, you are probably not going to run out of slots. Prepared spells is a bigger problem and having a higher intelligence helps there too.
I would take resilient (con) over warcaster, but that's just my personal preference. Reason being that you rely on those concentration spells and you will be a lot in melee if you are utilizing all the subclass potentials. Profficiency in concentration checks goes a long way. I understand the logic behind warcaster, which is shield and absorb elements whilst dual wielding but it's not required. As part of your reaction, you cast shield/absorb elements and whilst you perform the somatic component, your weapon drops on the floor (since you need a free hand). Just pick it up on your next turn. Or, sheathe 1 weapon when your turn ends. You will however loose 1AC due to not satisfying dual wielder.
Warcaster gives advantage on concentration saves too, which is going to be better than proficiency at most levels. Additionally in bladesong you have your intelligence bonus.
Drop the weapon during the reaction is an interesting idea.
It's raw to drop you weapon, and also absurd. I will make some random chance for it to bounce 5-10 feet away, and certainly prioritize someone picking it up.
I was wonder actually would it be good to have tough on a close combat focused bladesigner?
Or would ASI to Dex or Int be the better way to go?
*Mostly like I am going ASI but was just curious if tough is useful for bladesingers or not
I'm not sure it is RAW. Free Object Interactions are taken as a part of Movement and Actions, not Reactions, so you can't drop an object as a part of a Reaction if doing so requires a Free Object Interaction. But I 100% agree that the whole drop/use a free hand/pick up thing is absurd.