Im about to jump into a running game, they just reached level 6 so I will be starting at level 6 with them. Im considering a high half-elf (for the extra cantrip) starting with 4 levels of wizard (war magic) and 2 of warlock (GOO pact probably). My base stats are STR 8, DEX 15, CON 14, INT 18, WIS 10, CHA 17 w/out racial. With racial my INT and CHA base would both be 19 so at level 4 wiz I can bump them both to 20. So I'm not worried about the dual stat dependency. Im considering this combo for EB and the invocations agonizing blast and either repelling blast or a utility invocation like devils sight or eyes of the rune keeper. I want EB and AB for decent cantrip based damage so I can concentrate my spell slots going forward on utility, buff/debuff and control spells but still have some decent damage dealing ability at-will in my back pocket if needed, plus hex is nice. The DM has said he progresses things a bit slow because he likes to lean role-play heavy. His philosophy is that it should take a character 1-2 years of in game time to gain a level. so I'm gonna be level 6 for some time I believe. What I am worried about is: A: am I cutting my nose off to spit my face, in that do really need to multi class to achieve this? and B: will I hamper the overall characters ability and growth, especially starting and in the next several levels by multi classing now and forgoing level 3 and up spells till my next level?
You are almost always better off going full wizard. Every level is worthwhile and seldom is multiclassing going to add much to the class. If anything the reverse is more common. Adding a few levels of wizard to another class is often the premium choice.
As for combining wizard/warlock...most builds built to take advantage of EB are sorcerer/warlock, or sorlock, builds. If you are unfamiliar with sorlock just search on the word in YouTube for about a million videos on it. You will NOT find any videos on wizard/warlock combos and this should tell you how weak the mix can be. If you want to play it for the fun of it then by all means do so but be prepared to be a little weaker when compared to a single classed wizard. Will it 'cut off your nose to spite your face'? Probably not that bad. Will it hamper your character growth? Most assuredly due to the way that stacking spell casting levels work with multiclassing and by delaying access to higher level spells.
If you decide to go ahead with a wizard/warlock than I suggest starting at wizard 5/warlock 1. This gives you access to 3rd level wizard spells (ie fireball) which will carry you for awhile as you level up warlock. Having access to 3rd level wizard spells will be especially important if your DM intends to slow walk leveling since spells like fireball, slow and hypnotic pattern are generally considered a significant level up in power.
Although I have tried a few multi-class options myself, I prefer to go pure single class. If you do rethink your options, a 6th level wizard would have three level 3 spell slots, be able to select four level 3 spells for his spellbook, and gain the 6th level feature of his wizard tradition. All of this might go a long way to hold you over until you gain that 7th level... and then gain access to 4th level spells.
If on the other hand you decide to go pure warlock, again you get more from being 6th level... and gain a nice bump from getting to 7th level as a warlock.
As a caster it pays more to reach the higher levels quicker as you get more spells and spell slots to cast them, and they get more powerful at higher levels... multi-classing weakens all this overall making for weak multi-class casters.
I’ve done a “sorlock” before and mechanically it’s cool but they already have a sorcerer and really need a utility/buff/debuff wizard. That’s why I was looking at the multi class with warlock to give me a decent offensive cantrip, EB with agonizing blast, and save my spell slots for wizard utility/buff/debuff spells. But I think you’re right, going 5/1 is the wiser choice at this stage. Plus I have a fun idea for RP for the character to have a couple levels of warlock.
Playing that build myself right now. I am enjoying the RP. Trying to escape his pact turned to learn truly earned magic.
Wouldn't bother overly maximizing but I'd put that 17in Int if possible as its your main class going forward. Use the Invocations to supplement wizard abilites. Let Eldritch Blast go. Yeh its a nice cantrip but you lose so much adaptability focusing on it. Being able to detect magic or put on mage armor at will is pretty nice. That said if I I can I'd just go straight wizard and grab all the ritual spells I could. I love em all almost :)
Im going to decide on the build tomorrow morning, I start in the game tomorrow night. They decided to scratch the old campaign and start a new one, none of us have played above level 10 so we are gonna start at level 11 and see how I goes. I was going to go with a War Mage but I'm switching gears to divination, whether I take warlock or not. but if I do GOO I think it will play into divination well. The character Im going to play is a half-elf , possibly half drow, who's been raised but resented by his human family. So he is always trying be worthy of his families name and make them proud of him even though he will always be a blight on their houses good name. he still tries none the less. he has realized from his time at court that knowledge is power so divination and a GOO pact give him greater access to that power. You are right about buffing EB, I'll take it as a cantrip but ill leave agonizing blast and such be in favor of invocations that play better to the character.
Post your final build when you get it ready. I'm curious to see.
Treantmonk on youtube has several useful videos on playing wizards. He goes very in depth on every aspect. You might give them a review. Especially the higher level stuff since you haven't played much about 11th level.
What would I do starting at 11th as a wizard/warlock? Hmm. I would go with wizard 1 and warlock 10. Or maybe wiz 3/war 8. I've always wanted to try a higher level warlock and just a few levels of wizard should give just a little extra magic punch.
First session went great. I went with pretty much only support and divination spells and any damage he did was with cantrips which considering he's not designed as a blaster is fine. The story/intrigue part was also great with the spells and invocations I choose. I went with pack of the chain so I can have an invisible familiar that flys and I took voice of the chain master so I can use the familiar abilities anywhere on the same plan so they are great for spying.
My wizard in Storm King's Thunder is a Evocation wizard with 1 level of warlock (hexblade). I went this way to gain Medium armor, shields, and martial weapons. I have a CHA of 14. I tend to use my warlock spell slot to cast Mage Armor until I rest, then for Shield or Absorb Elements. The other reason I went Hexblade was so I could use my Charisma on attack & damage rolls with my quarterstaff. I just wasn't going to put points into STR, in fact, my STR is only 8 . . .
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Watch your back, conserve your ammo, and NEVER cut a deal with a dragon!
I have to say that I am surprised to see a even spread of levels like that. Probably won't win a optimization prize but I am sure it's fun to play. Pact of the Chain can really keep your character in the action both in and out of combat.
I've both played in and ran several games at the upper levels (11-20). At those levels there are so many possibilities for both the players and DM. Sometimes I think things go more smoothly if players just settle down to role play and don't worry as much about the numbers.
it sound fun as ether hex blade and blade singer wizard sound like good combo or the book of shadow warlock with the new scribe wizard Role play but multiclassing wizard and warlock seem bit off on paper!
I'm playing a warlock with a wizard dip presently, and it's not bad. I'm not sure it would be as decent trying to do wizard primary with warlock dip however. A warlock spends most of their time casting a cantrip. A wizard usually has better things to do with their turns than cast a cantrip.
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Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
I'm planning to make an illusion wizard myself with a 2 level dip into warlock for Eldritch Mind and Misty Visions invocations as well as the patron of the fathomless. I would be wondering if anyone had any advice on when would the 2 levels of warlock be optimal if the character is expected to reach level 20 in a campaign?
Those two levels of warlock make you delay everything else that wizard gets, and it's all good. Misty visions is nice, but casting a first level spell for free is not worth delaying your wizard spell progression for. You'll find that those first level slots aren't terribly useful as you level up and you won't use them for much other than shield anyways. Eldritch Mind is good, but you're better served to just pick up the Warcaster feat instead to get the same impact (and more) without slowing down your access to wizard spells and class features.
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Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
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Im about to jump into a running game, they just reached level 6 so I will be starting at level 6 with them. Im considering a high half-elf (for the extra cantrip) starting with 4 levels of wizard (war magic) and 2 of warlock (GOO pact probably). My base stats are STR 8, DEX 15, CON 14, INT 18, WIS 10, CHA 17 w/out racial. With racial my INT and CHA base would both be 19 so at level 4 wiz I can bump them both to 20. So I'm not worried about the dual stat dependency. Im considering this combo for EB and the invocations agonizing blast and either repelling blast or a utility invocation like devils sight or eyes of the rune keeper. I want EB and AB for decent cantrip based damage so I can concentrate my spell slots going forward on utility, buff/debuff and control spells but still have some decent damage dealing ability at-will in my back pocket if needed, plus hex is nice. The DM has said he progresses things a bit slow because he likes to lean role-play heavy. His philosophy is that it should take a character 1-2 years of in game time to gain a level. so I'm gonna be level 6 for some time I believe. What I am worried about is: A: am I cutting my nose off to spit my face, in that do really need to multi class to achieve this? and B: will I hamper the overall characters ability and growth, especially starting and in the next several levels by multi classing now and forgoing level 3 and up spells till my next level?
You are almost always better off going full wizard. Every level is worthwhile and seldom is multiclassing going to add much to the class. If anything the reverse is more common. Adding a few levels of wizard to another class is often the premium choice.
As for combining wizard/warlock...most builds built to take advantage of EB are sorcerer/warlock, or sorlock, builds. If you are unfamiliar with sorlock just search on the word in YouTube for about a million videos on it. You will NOT find any videos on wizard/warlock combos and this should tell you how weak the mix can be. If you want to play it for the fun of it then by all means do so but be prepared to be a little weaker when compared to a single classed wizard. Will it 'cut off your nose to spite your face'? Probably not that bad. Will it hamper your character growth? Most assuredly due to the way that stacking spell casting levels work with multiclassing and by delaying access to higher level spells.
If you decide to go ahead with a wizard/warlock than I suggest starting at wizard 5/warlock 1. This gives you access to 3rd level wizard spells (ie fireball) which will carry you for awhile as you level up warlock. Having access to 3rd level wizard spells will be especially important if your DM intends to slow walk leveling since spells like fireball, slow and hypnotic pattern are generally considered a significant level up in power.
Hope this helps and happy gaming
Current Characters I am playing: Dr Konstantin van Wulf | Taegen Willowrun | Mad Magnar
Check out my homebrew: Items | Monsters | Spells | Subclasses | Feats
Although I have tried a few multi-class options myself, I prefer to go pure single class. If you do rethink your options, a 6th level wizard would have three level 3 spell slots, be able to select four level 3 spells for his spellbook, and gain the 6th level feature of his wizard tradition. All of this might go a long way to hold you over until you gain that 7th level... and then gain access to 4th level spells.
If on the other hand you decide to go pure warlock, again you get more from being 6th level... and gain a nice bump from getting to 7th level as a warlock.
As a caster it pays more to reach the higher levels quicker as you get more spells and spell slots to cast them, and they get more powerful at higher levels... multi-classing weakens all this overall making for weak multi-class casters.
I’ve done a “sorlock” before and mechanically it’s cool but they already have a sorcerer and really need a utility/buff/debuff wizard. That’s why I was looking at the multi class with warlock to give me a decent offensive cantrip, EB with agonizing blast, and save my spell slots for wizard utility/buff/debuff spells. But I think you’re right, going 5/1 is the wiser choice at this stage. Plus I have a fun idea for RP for the character to have a couple levels of warlock.
Playing that build myself right now. I am enjoying the RP. Trying to escape his pact turned to learn truly earned magic.
Wouldn't bother overly maximizing but I'd put that 17in Int if possible as its your main class going forward. Use the Invocations to supplement wizard abilites. Let Eldritch Blast go. Yeh its a nice cantrip but you lose so much adaptability focusing on it. Being able to detect magic or put on mage armor at will is pretty nice. That said if I I can I'd just go straight wizard and grab all the ritual spells I could. I love em all almost :)
Do whats fun.
Im going to decide on the build tomorrow morning, I start in the game tomorrow night. They decided to scratch the old campaign and start a new one, none of us have played above level 10 so we are gonna start at level 11 and see how I goes. I was going to go with a War Mage but I'm switching gears to divination, whether I take warlock or not. but if I do GOO I think it will play into divination well. The character Im going to play is a half-elf , possibly half drow, who's been raised but resented by his human family. So he is always trying be worthy of his families name and make them proud of him even though he will always be a blight on their houses good name. he still tries none the less. he has realized from his time at court that knowledge is power so divination and a GOO pact give him greater access to that power. You are right about buffing EB, I'll take it as a cantrip but ill leave agonizing blast and such be in favor of invocations that play better to the character.
Post your final build when you get it ready. I'm curious to see.
Treantmonk on youtube has several useful videos on playing wizards. He goes very in depth on every aspect. You might give them a review. Especially the higher level stuff since you haven't played much about 11th level.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCr7N1om5-7UemjK_stlAuTw
What would I do starting at 11th as a wizard/warlock? Hmm. I would go with wizard 1 and warlock 10. Or maybe wiz 3/war 8. I've always wanted to try a higher level warlock and just a few levels of wizard should give just a little extra magic punch.
Current Characters I am playing: Dr Konstantin van Wulf | Taegen Willowrun | Mad Magnar
Check out my homebrew: Items | Monsters | Spells | Subclasses | Feats
This is what I ended up with: https://ddb.ac/characters/11440976/CYSC1k
First session went great. I went with pretty much only support and divination spells and any damage he did was with cantrips which considering he's not designed as a blaster is fine. The story/intrigue part was also great with the spells and invocations I choose. I went with pack of the chain so I can have an invisible familiar that flys and I took voice of the chain master so I can use the familiar abilities anywhere on the same plan so they are great for spying.
My wizard in Storm King's Thunder is a Evocation wizard with 1 level of warlock (hexblade). I went this way to gain Medium armor, shields, and martial weapons. I have a CHA of 14. I tend to use my warlock spell slot to cast Mage Armor until I rest, then for Shield or Absorb Elements. The other reason I went Hexblade was so I could use my Charisma on attack & damage rolls with my quarterstaff. I just wasn't going to put points into STR, in fact, my STR is only 8 . . .
Watch your back, conserve your ammo,
and NEVER cut a deal with a dragon!
Thanks for updating us!
I have to say that I am surprised to see a even spread of levels like that. Probably won't win a optimization prize but I am sure it's fun to play. Pact of the Chain can really keep your character in the action both in and out of combat.
I've both played in and ran several games at the upper levels (11-20). At those levels there are so many possibilities for both the players and DM. Sometimes I think things go more smoothly if players just settle down to role play and don't worry as much about the numbers.
Current Characters I am playing: Dr Konstantin van Wulf | Taegen Willowrun | Mad Magnar
Check out my homebrew: Items | Monsters | Spells | Subclasses | Feats
it sound fun as ether hex blade and blade singer wizard sound like good combo or the book of shadow warlock with the new scribe wizard Role play but multiclassing wizard and warlock seem bit off on paper!
I am doing a wizard -- Warlock, it's honestly decent with optimization.
I'm playing a warlock with a wizard dip presently, and it's not bad. I'm not sure it would be as decent trying to do wizard primary with warlock dip however. A warlock spends most of their time casting a cantrip. A wizard usually has better things to do with their turns than cast a cantrip.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
I'm planning to make an illusion wizard myself with a 2 level dip into warlock for Eldritch Mind and Misty Visions invocations as well as the patron of the fathomless. I would be wondering if anyone had any advice on when would the 2 levels of warlock be optimal if the character is expected to reach level 20 in a campaign?
Honestly? Never.
Those two levels of warlock make you delay everything else that wizard gets, and it's all good. Misty visions is nice, but casting a first level spell for free is not worth delaying your wizard spell progression for. You'll find that those first level slots aren't terribly useful as you level up and you won't use them for much other than shield anyways. Eldritch Mind is good, but you're better served to just pick up the Warcaster feat instead to get the same impact (and more) without slowing down your access to wizard spells and class features.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha