They might as well have punched a baby, at this point.
Aside from the flat-out bad response to the community outcry, the next thing is that they're aiming for $30 monthly subs...
There are a million ways to increase revenue while still staying good with the people paying that revenue. Anyone who was interested in keeping the community growing, would have been able to tell the guy that this was just plain terrible and would do far more harm than good.
But they can't see that. They just see that sweet defenseless baby and don't care WHO is watching.
So I've just heard from thedungeondelver on youtube that they intend to ban all homebrew unless you pay $30/m
At this point we have no choice but to destroy WotC
Probably not $30 dollars for homebrew rights. Its tiered subs and homebrew is unlikely to be relagated to the highest tier.
However that doesnt matter, I dont care if its a 1 dollar sub. Monetising homebrew, (which is also the only way to put third party content on DDB) is indefensible.
Now not only are they fishing for a quarter of third party content creators revenue (not profit, so that alone could well render these creators running at a loss, or force them to raise prices to match wotcs inflated pricing) but they want subs for each player to use that content, or their own custom utility items like the equippable mage armor buffs, et cetera. Or custom spells.
Homebrew is the lifeblood of DnD, trying to monetize, control and silence that can only end with dnd becoming left behind, or ignored
At this point I think a boycott of the dnd movie, and any of their products, is due. I wont pay for it. I wont pay wotc a cent until they make this right, CEO and management needs to get ******* fired, they need to abandon the new OGL entirely, probably sign the ORC. And they need to make some serious goodwill choices. Like lowering their frankly excessive prices. (Especially since half of 5es books have had something major that should not have made it past playtesting. (Coughbeastmastercough)
Going by the rumours of homebrew being removed and costs being upped - this really is just terrible business.
But after the horrible response to the OGL outrage, nothing really surprises.
It's one thing to offer more and then increasing prices to accompany that increase of value, but it's another thing entirely to want to remove value and up costs in one fell swoop. Attempting to milk the last few whales to compensate for the mass exodus feels like final nails in the coffin, to be honest.
Big part of the problem is that I use homebrew a lot to fix game mechanics that don't work properly. Take something simple like raging. You can't turn on rage and then have all your attacks reflect the raging, you need to remember that you are raging. My homebrew of things like raging great sword allows my players to actually use the game as it is written. If dndbeyond was even close to working properly this would not be needed.
Not another gods be damned PENNY from me! All the THOUSANDS I have spent and it is not good enough well I am done, And not only that I will push boycotts of anything D&D from now on. I know they don't care.
If you get weak just picture all of the executives in a room smoking cigars and laughing at you with their lizard faces. My next campaign will have a new villain, guess who it will be.
Yeah, I've been playing the game since AD&D, and this is one of the most colossal screwups that they have done. The response was full of lies, attempts to change the past, and handwaving. Not only did they roll a 1 on their Community insight check, but they did it again with their Deception roll here.
I rather doubt DND Beyond Staff were ever asked for input on "revising the OGL" so making out this was a response from "them" was rather were the disingenuous fishy smelly jelly smelly fish started for me.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
“It cannot be seen, cannot be felt, Cannot be heard, cannot be smelt, It lies behind stars and under hills, And empty holes it fills, It comes first and follows after, Ends life, kills laughter.” J.R.R. Tolkien, The Hobbit, or There and Back Again
They're still calling the leaked document a draft, which it never was, but it's better.
I'm not sure surveying the player base is really the way forward here, I would think it would be more valuable to survey third party publishers, since they're the ones actually affected. Yes, random players could at any moment become publishers, but most of us won't. Publishers are harder to manipulate with spin, though, and they're more aware of the specifics of what they want. Because it's their business. So the whole "listening to feedback" thing here feels a little slimy, but it is better than not listening at all.
I don't think this is bad. It's like, 80%, in a vacuum. But they really need to give 200%, to actually fix what they've done here. And remember: Nothing he said in that post is legally binding.
WOTC's ability to alter the new OGL isn't talked about. If they can alter it, it's a sham.
Let's dissect some of this.
Our language and requirements in the draft <-This word is a LIE, start your honesty there and we might be able to move forwardOGL were disruptive to creators and not in support of our core goals of protecting and cultivating an inclusive play environment and limiting the OGL to TTRPGs. Then we compounded things by being silent for too long. We hurt fans and creators, when more frequent and clear communications could have prevented so much of this.
Your OGL 1.0a content. Nothing will impact any content you have published under OGL 1.0a. That will always be licensed under OGL 1.0a.- If you are De-authorizing OGL 1.0a than you are failing the community. You didn't talk about future content, so yeah you're still planning to kill 1.0a. If you want a separate OGL for 6e/OneDnd than go make a separate license. Of yeah, you are making it compatible with 5E, so you screwed yourself.
Your ownership of your content. You will continue to own your content with no license-back requirements. - This isn't the problem, WOTC's clause to be able to publish that work and make money from it is a larger part of the issue. How about instead, WOTC tries to make better content? Your current offerings are weak in comparison to what 3rd parties bring to the table. 5E has completely ignored LORE, write something that includes it.
Listening to us is a decent first step (that is undone by the blatant lie of calling the leaked document a draft) but I don't think I see myself supporting D&D going forward unless there's an irrevocable license that protects us forever.
It'd be best if they joined the ORC license when it comes out.
I'm a long way from being encouraged to return. My table's other members are unsubbing as well.
I will not watch Honor Among Thieves or buy any movie-related merchandise; I have cancelled my D&DBeyond Subscription and Magic the Gathering Arena Subscription. I will ONLY support Wizards of the Coast if Hasbro is NOT in control. #BoycottDNDMovie#Hasbro#WotCstaff#OpenDnD
Sorry Kyle, to few, to late, you have broken a trust....
By the way, just to note - WOTC mods are removing any comments that i make about the ridiculousness of the latest OGL statement claiming it violates 20. Minor Spam.
Okay so, this is better in the sense that it's less obviously condescending and infuriating but, still not great. A lot of my biggest worries aren't mentioned at all here (ie whether or not Wizard's can change the license in the future, and whether 3rd party publishers waiver their rights to sue). Also worth pointing out, the original version of this updated OGL also said "You own your content", but still allowed Wizard's to take it down/use it at will.
Additionally, if this survey is anything like the ones used for Unearthed Arcana or OneDnd (6e, lets be real here), I don't have high hopes for it. Those survey's haven't exactly been set up in a way to gather good feedback and feel more like a general "thumbs up or thumbs down" kind of situation. Plus, I'm not even sure how much they actually take that feedback into consideration (UA Silvery Barbs and UA Twilight Cleric anyone? How they hell did they buff those things after playtesting and people noticing they were already incredibly good?).
I also can't help but wonder if this is their attempt to gather feedback, what the hell do they consider everything that's been discussed in the community already over the past two weeks? All the statements by third party publishers or, the proposed creation of the ORC? Is that not feedback? I dunno.
There's a saying I recall that goes something along the lines of "when someone shows you who they truly are, you should believe them". Wizards have already shown us what they want, and how willing they are to screw their base over in order to get that. They're a billion dollar corporation after all, and the priority of big corporations is always their bottom line. All of this to me feels like them saying whatever they think we want to hear so that we'll shut up, resub, and give them our money.
They have still conceded nothing. They still are not grasping how badly they have messed up. They still haven't issued a genuine apology.
I have never seen someone do so much damage to their brand in so little time. (The other creators helped build the value that made D&D a massive and marketable brand. The value was in being the umbrella brand, not in getting every penny out of the end user. They could have built the brand into a massive entertainment brand, ala Marvel.)
They have also made sure that they will have competition.
I sure hope they remember to flush and strike a match on the way out.
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They might as well have punched a baby, at this point.
Aside from the flat-out bad response to the community outcry, the next thing is that they're aiming for $30 monthly subs...
There are a million ways to increase revenue while still staying good with the people paying that revenue. Anyone who was interested in keeping the community growing, would have been able to tell the guy that this was just plain terrible and would do far more harm than good.
But they can't see that. They just see that sweet defenseless baby and don't care WHO is watching.
So I've just heard from thedungeondelver on youtube that they intend to ban all homebrew unless you pay $30/m
At this point we have no choice but to destroy WotC
Not to mention that Hasbro literally sells NFTs. Such bs.
Probably not $30 dollars for homebrew rights. Its tiered subs and homebrew is unlikely to be relagated to the highest tier.
However that doesnt matter, I dont care if its a 1 dollar sub. Monetising homebrew, (which is also the only way to put third party content on DDB) is indefensible.
Now not only are they fishing for a quarter of third party content creators revenue (not profit, so that alone could well render these creators running at a loss, or force them to raise prices to match wotcs inflated pricing) but they want subs for each player to use that content, or their own custom utility items like the equippable mage armor buffs, et cetera. Or custom spells.
Homebrew is the lifeblood of DnD, trying to monetize, control and silence that can only end with dnd becoming left behind, or ignored
At this point I think a boycott of the dnd movie, and any of their products, is due. I wont pay for it. I wont pay wotc a cent until they make this right, CEO and management needs to get ******* fired, they need to abandon the new OGL entirely, probably sign the ORC. And they need to make some serious goodwill choices. Like lowering their frankly excessive prices. (Especially since half of 5es books have had something major that should not have made it past playtesting. (Coughbeastmastercough)
Going by the rumours of homebrew being removed and costs being upped - this really is just terrible business.
But after the horrible response to the OGL outrage, nothing really surprises.
It's one thing to offer more and then increasing prices to accompany that increase of value, but it's another thing entirely to want to remove value and up costs in one fell swoop. Attempting to milk the last few whales to compensate for the mass exodus feels like final nails in the coffin, to be honest.
Big part of the problem is that I use homebrew a lot to fix game mechanics that don't work properly. Take something simple like raging. You can't turn on rage and then have all your attacks reflect the raging, you need to remember that you are raging. My homebrew of things like raging great sword allows my players to actually use the game as it is written. If dndbeyond was even close to working properly this would not be needed.
even if they lose 90% customers and keep 10% at 30dollars they are up in profit
now thats that they really think
Plus non of this LFG - we have an AI DM to run your through the game
and loot crates for your 30$
It will be business as normal in a few months
Not another gods be damned PENNY from me!
All the THOUSANDS I have spent and it is not good enough well I am done, And not only that I will push boycotts of anything D&D from now on. I know they don't care.
If you get weak just picture all of the executives in a room smoking cigars and laughing at you with their lizard faces.
My next campaign will have a new villain, guess who it will be.
Golden Age
Yeah, I've been playing the game since AD&D, and this is one of the most colossal screwups that they have done. The response was full of lies, attempts to change the past, and handwaving. Not only did they roll a 1 on their Community insight check, but they did it again with their Deception roll here.
I rather doubt DND Beyond Staff were ever asked for input on "revising the OGL" so making out this was a response from "them" was rather were the disingenuous fishy smelly jelly smelly fish started for me.
“It cannot be seen, cannot be felt, Cannot be heard, cannot be smelt, It lies behind stars and under hills, And empty holes it fills, It comes first and follows after, Ends life, kills laughter.” J.R.R. Tolkien, The Hobbit, or There and Back Again
Yeah - except worse. Babies don't bring people together like DnD. 🌈
new post from the powers that be https://www.dndbeyond.com/posts/1428-a-working-conversation-about-the-open-game-license a little more serious response from wotc about OGL. This is what they should have posted the first time as that first posting ..
This is much better.
They're still calling the leaked document a draft, which it never was, but it's better.
I'm not sure surveying the player base is really the way forward here, I would think it would be more valuable to survey third party publishers, since they're the ones actually affected. Yes, random players could at any moment become publishers, but most of us won't. Publishers are harder to manipulate with spin, though, and they're more aware of the specifics of what they want. Because it's their business. So the whole "listening to feedback" thing here feels a little slimy, but it is better than not listening at all.
I don't think this is bad. It's like, 80%, in a vacuum. But they really need to give 200%, to actually fix what they've done here. And remember: Nothing he said in that post is legally binding.
They're still dodging issues in the OGL 1.1
WOTC's ability to alter the new OGL isn't talked about. If they can alter it, it's a sham.
Let's dissect some of this.
Listening to us is a decent first step (that is undone by the blatant lie of calling the leaked document a draft) but I don't think I see myself supporting D&D going forward unless there's an irrevocable license that protects us forever.
It'd be best if they joined the ORC license when it comes out.
I'm a long way from being encouraged to return. My table's other members are unsubbing as well.
Peace be with you friend.
By the way, just to note - WOTC mods are removing any comments that i make about the ridiculousness of the latest OGL statement claiming it violates 20. Minor Spam.
Okay so, this is better in the sense that it's less obviously condescending and infuriating but, still not great. A lot of my biggest worries aren't mentioned at all here (ie whether or not Wizard's can change the license in the future, and whether 3rd party publishers waiver their rights to sue). Also worth pointing out, the original version of this updated OGL also said "You own your content", but still allowed Wizard's to take it down/use it at will.
Additionally, if this survey is anything like the ones used for Unearthed Arcana or OneDnd (6e, lets be real here), I don't have high hopes for it. Those survey's haven't exactly been set up in a way to gather good feedback and feel more like a general "thumbs up or thumbs down" kind of situation. Plus, I'm not even sure how much they actually take that feedback into consideration (UA Silvery Barbs and UA Twilight Cleric anyone? How they hell did they buff those things after playtesting and people noticing they were already incredibly good?).
I also can't help but wonder if this is their attempt to gather feedback, what the hell do they consider everything that's been discussed in the community already over the past two weeks? All the statements by third party publishers or, the proposed creation of the ORC? Is that not feedback? I dunno.
There's a saying I recall that goes something along the lines of "when someone shows you who they truly are, you should believe them". Wizards have already shown us what they want, and how willing they are to screw their base over in order to get that. They're a billion dollar corporation after all, and the priority of big corporations is always their bottom line. All of this to me feels like them saying whatever they think we want to hear so that we'll shut up, resub, and give them our money.
They have still conceded nothing. They still are not grasping how badly they have messed up. They still haven't issued a genuine apology.
I have never seen someone do so much damage to their brand in so little time. (The other creators helped build the value that made D&D a massive and marketable brand. The value was in being the umbrella brand, not in getting every penny out of the end user. They could have built the brand into a massive entertainment brand, ala Marvel.)
They have also made sure that they will have competition.
I sure hope they remember to flush and strike a match on the way out.