I just finished reading the response that the DNDBeyond staff released about half an hour ago, and I don't quite know how to feel. It seems like there will be some heavy revisions on the OGL 1.1, but at the same time I can't gauge how sincere their language was and how empty these promises are. Any thoughts?
How do they get to call the leaked OGL 1.1 version a draft? It had executable contracts attached to it that they tried to get people to sign. Kickstarter did sign the contract.
That OGL statement is filled with Lies and sarcasm as they attempt to appease the masses. I want to see the resignation of the entire upper management at WOTC and whomever is the liaison from Hasbro for even trying to pull this BS.
At the end of the day, they killed the OGL & their Brand because they've lost the trust of the 3rd party publishers. Those 3rd party publishers raised the Brand to the status that it enjoys today and now they can never trust it again. I look forward to what the competition brings to the table in the coming months/years. Strife breeds innovation, It's now time to level up our community.
It was an attempt to put the toothpaste back in the tube.
If the notice read "We ****ed up, we are sorry, the standard will not change." I would be more apt to believe them. But the response basically didnt do anything but confirm its about money and not about us.
Like, I get it. Its a business. Money has to be made, but at what cost to the fans and players who have been loyal to them?
We know it wasnt a draft. We know it wasnt for feedback. Creators got sent the OGL 1.1 together with contracts and a deadline. You dont do that with a draft.
And the deflection that this is about being anti-racist or anti-nft..... what a bunch of nonsense. You dont need to allow yourself to steal other peoples work, force them to disclose their income to you and take part of it, or destroy any VTT competiton to achieve that. Its totally unrelated to the issues people had, but they put it as their big talking point because it looks good.
They claimed it was a draft, but you don't send out contracts with drafts. It's all BS and their are trying to pull the wool over everyone's eyes. They seem to forget that most of the player base are rules lawyers and know how to nit pick and read/research the fine details. The powers that be assumed the plebians that are their customers would just roll over and take it. I've been with D&D since the early 80's, stuck through the craptastic 3rd and 4th editions. I bought into DnDBeyond, all the source books, and several other released content, but cannot continue to support a company that sees us as an ATM/cash supply, and not customers that they need to actually strive to work for. SpellJammer and Dragonlance both royally screwed the pooch when it came to their releases. The content was lacking, substandard and not worth the money. Paizo is stepping up and releasing an OGL and attempting to rally other RPG producers to have a truly OGL that can never have done to it like what Hasbro/WotC is trying to do.
Hearing their reasoning disgusts me. As much as I hate to see people using hateful and discriminatory stuff, not only are players capable of doing whatever they want at their own table, but wizards should not get to play morality police. Especially since I do not trust WotC to be fair and unbiased as to what is and isn't acceptable anymore.
Does not move the needle for me, and thus my sub cancellation will stand.
At first blush it looks like the proverbial finger in the dam, and reads very much like a boiler plate press release.
My impression is that a lot of people sat around a table, for probably a ridiculous amount of time to massage/craft the message.
Consequently it reads every corporation non-apology press release we’ve seen for the last number of years.
The leaning on this to begin with feels disingenuous: “First, we wanted the ability to prevent the use of D&D content from being included in hateful and discriminatory products”
Hey WotC/DDB! You know what the best deterrence against “hateful and discriminatory products” is?
A vibrant, and diverse community filled with vibrant, and diverse 3rd party creators who know you’ve got their back.
So starting with some straw man nonsense designed to make us, the subscribers, feel like this whole thing is about them being “good stewards of the game” is crap.
It was an attempt to put the toothpaste back in the tube.
If the notice read "We ****ed up, we are sorry, the standard will not change." I would be more apt to believe them. But the response basically didnt do anything but confirm its about money and not about us.
Like, I get it. Its a business. Money has to be made, but at what cost to the fans and players who have been loyal to them?
You are right. It is a business and I am taking mine elsewhere now. Thank you.
I have an itchy trigger finger, and if I can manage to get it on the unsubscribe button, I'll have it there waiting on the finalized version. If it sucks and hurts the creators that built up and cultivated the culture of ttrpgs then you know I'll pull it. If it ONLY protects them from other companies trying to "steal their thunder" then I see no reason to get up at arms except towards an actual dragon. Good day sir.
Edit: show them your power with your wallet, not hurtful words. I've killed many a foe with vicious mockery; however, companies are immune to psychic damage unless you use gold for infusion material.
It's just disgustingly dishonest gaslighting and makes me even more angry because they're lying through their teeth.
1) They never wanted community feedback. OGL 1.1 wasn't released to the public for feedback, they got exposed by leaks and whistleblowers.
2) This was never just a draft proposal. Contracts and agreements were already confirmed to have been put in place with companies like Kickstarter.
3) Hasbro hasn't won too, because they're not getting what they want, they're being incredibly smug and trying to act like people aren't angry.
4) Nobody is making D&D NFTs or Blockchain stuff.
5) Morally questionable material will just policed by the market and WotC only months ago was releasing racist and discriminatory shit like the Hadozee fiasco in Spelljammer.
No, WotC just totally reiterated that they're dishonest sleezeballs and we made the right call by boycotting them and said boycott needs to be permanent.
It still rings false and sounds like nothing more than a forced (and weak) attempt at being contrite. All of their "reasons" for the new OGL could have been addressed with specific, targeted language, not the complete teardown they made.
As for the insistence that these were drafts? Yeah right. Many people here have already pointed out that you would NEVER send ANY draft, let alone an "early" draft, as they call it, out to creators with a contract and week deadline to sign.
I think this paragraph is actually what galls me the most: "A couple of last thoughts. First, we won’t be able to release the new OGL today, because we need to make sure we get it right, but it is coming. Second, you’re going to hear people say that they won, and we lost because making your voices heard forced us to change our plans. Those people will only be half right. They won—and so did we."
The wording there is SO adversarial. Anyone who is passionate about doing right by their fans would never resort to this "us vs them" style of wording.
At this point, even if they left 1.0a in place, untouched, the trust is gone. I'm not sure what it would take for me to see any attempt at reconciliation as genuine.
Can any of you cancel your subscriptions right now? I keep getting redirected to the subscribe page when I try to go to management, and the option is not available on the app at the moment.
Their response - while good that they have pulled back on the worst parts of the leaked version, shows no real contrition. The attempt to explain the draconian clauses as "protection for the players" is laughable.
Oh, and the sudden hiding of the UNSUBSCRIBE button that happened yesterday? Nice try. All that has done is increased the anger towards them.
WotC have burnt their bridges for me. The remainder of my subscription will see out my current campaigns. Then I think my three playing groups will try out something else. Piazo's brilliant response in firstly being prepared to fight the new OGL in the courts if needed, and secondly creating a new, truly OPEN OGL (humorously called the ORC), at their own expense, that other creators can use in the future has warmed me towards trying out Pathfinder.
LOL the response literally had blatant lies in it. "thank you for the feedback, that was our intent" LIE. It was a leak. They sent the draft to be signed by 3rd party companies already, and they were going to announce it as is.
That was so much corporate speak written by a lawyer/HR person that I got mad. Before, I was just waiting to see how things progress but damnnnn that post was such bull.
It feels like typical corporate back peddling. They’re trying to put the pieces back together by lying to the community that built them. Unless they fully revoke their OGL updates my subscription will stay deleted and I’ll move to Pathfinder or something. #PaizoPOG
The community built DnD to what it is today and if WotC continues with what they’re doing the community will move on and leave WotC in its grave. The unfortunate reality of corporate greed. I’m honestly proud of how this community stood up for itself and its creators.
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I just finished reading the response that the DNDBeyond staff released about half an hour ago, and I don't quite know how to feel. It seems like there will be some heavy revisions on the OGL 1.1, but at the same time I can't gauge how sincere their language was and how empty these promises are. Any thoughts?
it sound more like - Please, return. We need your money! Please. And we may or may not get better but please return to us. We really need your money.
How do they get to call the leaked OGL 1.1 version a draft? It had executable contracts attached to it that they tried to get people to sign. Kickstarter did sign the contract.
That OGL statement is filled with Lies and sarcasm as they attempt to appease the masses. I want to see the resignation of the entire upper management at WOTC and whomever is the liaison from Hasbro for even trying to pull this BS.
At the end of the day, they killed the OGL & their Brand because they've lost the trust of the 3rd party publishers. Those 3rd party publishers raised the Brand to the status that it enjoys today and now they can never trust it again. I look forward to what the competition brings to the table in the coming months/years. Strife breeds innovation, It's now time to level up our community.
I am done with WOTC D&D. I don't think there is anything that they can do to get me back as a customer.
It was an attempt to put the toothpaste back in the tube.
If the notice read "We ****ed up, we are sorry, the standard will not change." I would be more apt to believe them. But the response basically didnt do anything but confirm its about money and not about us.
Like, I get it. Its a business. Money has to be made, but at what cost to the fans and players who have been loyal to them?
It is just a bunch of Gaslighting.
We know it wasnt a draft. We know it wasnt for feedback. Creators got
sent the OGL 1.1 together with contracts and a deadline. You dont do
that with a draft.
And the deflection that this is about being anti-racist or anti-nft.....
what a bunch of nonsense. You dont need to allow yourself to steal
other peoples work, force them to disclose their income to you and take
part of it, or destroy any VTT competiton to achieve that. Its totally unrelated to the issues people had, but they put it as their big talking point because it looks good.
They claimed it was a draft, but you don't send out contracts with drafts. It's all BS and their are trying to pull the wool over everyone's eyes. They seem to forget that most of the player base are rules lawyers and know how to nit pick and read/research the fine details. The powers that be assumed the plebians that are their customers would just roll over and take it. I've been with D&D since the early 80's, stuck through the craptastic 3rd and 4th editions. I bought into DnDBeyond, all the source books, and several other released content, but cannot continue to support a company that sees us as an ATM/cash supply, and not customers that they need to actually strive to work for. SpellJammer and Dragonlance both royally screwed the pooch when it came to their releases. The content was lacking, substandard and not worth the money. Paizo is stepping up and releasing an OGL and attempting to rally other RPG producers to have a truly OGL that can never have done to it like what Hasbro/WotC is trying to do.
Hearing their reasoning disgusts me. As much as I hate to see people using hateful and discriminatory stuff, not only are players capable of doing whatever they want at their own table, but wizards should not get to play morality police. Especially since I do not trust WotC to be fair and unbiased as to what is and isn't acceptable anymore.
This video summed it up pretty well for me.
I’m not feeling it.
Does not move the needle for me, and thus my sub cancellation will stand.
At first blush it looks like the proverbial finger in the dam, and reads very much like a boiler plate press release.
My impression is that a lot of people sat around a table, for probably a ridiculous amount of time to massage/craft the message.
Consequently it reads every corporation non-apology press release we’ve seen for the last number of years.
The leaning on this to begin with feels disingenuous: “First, we wanted the ability to prevent the use of D&D content from being included in hateful and discriminatory products”
Hey WotC/DDB! You know what the best deterrence against “hateful and discriminatory products” is?
A vibrant, and diverse community filled with vibrant, and diverse 3rd party creators who know you’ve got their back.
So starting with some straw man nonsense designed to make us, the subscribers, feel like this whole thing is about them being “good stewards of the game” is crap.
So, yeah, I’m not feeling it.
You are right. It is a business and I am taking mine elsewhere now. Thank you.
I have an itchy trigger finger, and if I can manage to get it on the unsubscribe button, I'll have it there waiting on the finalized version. If it sucks and hurts the creators that built up and cultivated the culture of ttrpgs then you know I'll pull it. If it ONLY protects them from other companies trying to "steal their thunder" then I see no reason to get up at arms except towards an actual dragon. Good day sir.
Edit: show them your power with your wallet, not hurtful words. I've killed many a foe with vicious mockery; however, companies are immune to psychic damage unless you use gold for infusion material.
It's just disgustingly dishonest gaslighting and makes me even more angry because they're lying through their teeth.
1) They never wanted community feedback. OGL 1.1 wasn't released to the public for feedback, they got exposed by leaks and whistleblowers.
2) This was never just a draft proposal. Contracts and agreements were already confirmed to have been put in place with companies like Kickstarter.
3) Hasbro hasn't won too, because they're not getting what they want, they're being incredibly smug and trying to act like people aren't angry.
4) Nobody is making D&D NFTs or Blockchain stuff.
5) Morally questionable material will just policed by the market and WotC only months ago was releasing racist and discriminatory shit like the Hadozee fiasco in Spelljammer.
No, WotC just totally reiterated that they're dishonest sleezeballs and we made the right call by boycotting them and said boycott needs to be permanent.
It honestly feels more like an insult than anything else, they really do think we're that ******* stupid.
It still rings false and sounds like nothing more than a forced (and weak) attempt at being contrite. All of their "reasons" for the new OGL could have been addressed with specific, targeted language, not the complete teardown they made.
As for the insistence that these were drafts? Yeah right. Many people here have already pointed out that you would NEVER send ANY draft, let alone an "early" draft, as they call it, out to creators with a contract and week deadline to sign.
I think this paragraph is actually what galls me the most: "A couple of last thoughts. First, we won’t be able to release the new OGL today, because we need to make sure we get it right, but it is coming. Second, you’re going to hear people say that they won, and we lost because making your voices heard forced us to change our plans. Those people will only be half right. They won—and so did we."
The wording there is SO adversarial. Anyone who is passionate about doing right by their fans would never resort to this "us vs them" style of wording.
At this point, even if they left 1.0a in place, untouched, the trust is gone. I'm not sure what it would take for me to see any attempt at reconciliation as genuine.
Can any of you cancel your subscriptions right now? I keep getting redirected to the subscribe page when I try to go to management, and the option is not available on the app at the moment.
I cancelled my sub, and it will remain cancelled.
Their response - while good that they have pulled back on the worst parts of the leaked version, shows no real contrition. The attempt to explain the draconian clauses as "protection for the players" is laughable.
Oh, and the sudden hiding of the UNSUBSCRIBE button that happened yesterday? Nice try. All that has done is increased the anger towards them.
WotC have burnt their bridges for me. The remainder of my subscription will see out my current campaigns. Then I think my three playing groups will try out something else. Piazo's brilliant response in firstly being prepared to fight the new OGL in the courts if needed, and secondly creating a new, truly OPEN OGL (humorously called the ORC), at their own expense, that other creators can use in the future has warmed me towards trying out Pathfinder.
So long WotC. Enjoy the roller coaster.
LOL the response literally had blatant lies in it. "thank you for the feedback, that was our intent" LIE. It was a leak. They sent the draft to be signed by 3rd party companies already, and they were going to announce it as is.
That was so much corporate speak written by a lawyer/HR person that I got mad. Before, I was just waiting to see how things progress but damnnnn that post was such bull.
Same I'm done. They aren't getting a penny more of my money.
After my current campaigns end, I'm leaving D&D, likely forever, unless the brand gets sold to someone with some morals.
~"Until we meet again..." -Elminster the Mage
It feels like typical corporate back peddling. They’re trying to put the pieces back together by lying to the community that built them. Unless they fully revoke their OGL updates my subscription will stay deleted and I’ll move to Pathfinder or something. #PaizoPOG
The community built DnD to what it is today and if WotC continues with what they’re doing the community will move on and leave WotC in its grave. The unfortunate reality of corporate greed. I’m honestly proud of how this community stood up for itself and its creators.