I'm going to make the prediction that ala carte will return eventually. I think it was temporarily taken away to make sure that they sold/pre-sold as many copies of the new rulebooks as possible. People would've been a lot more reluctant to make those purchases if they knew they could just ala carte them after they came out. Business psychology. Will it work out for them? Time will tell, but I think in about a year (or less) we'll see them bring back individual purchases all the while selling it as a "See? We listen to our customers!" kind of ballyhoo.
We'll see.
If customers are reluctant to buy DnD books due to ala cart purchases, or even complete the purchase by paying the remainder after the initial ala cart purchases are made (since quite a few imply they don't want more then 10-20% of a book) then there is no incentive for a company to bring it back. Doubt it will come back.
I'm going to make the prediction that ala carte will return eventually. I think it was temporarily taken away to make sure that they sold/pre-sold as many copies of the new rulebooks as possible. People would've been a lot more reluctant to make those purchases if they knew they could just ala carte them after they came out. Business psychology. Will it work out for them? Time will tell, but I think in about a year (or less) we'll see them bring back individual purchases all the while selling it as a "See? We listen to our customers!" kind of ballyhoo.
We'll see.
If customers are reluctant to buy DnD books due to ala cart purchases, or even complete the purchase by paying the remainder after the initial ala cart purchases are made (since quite a few imply they don't want more then 10-20% of a book) then there is no incentive for a company to bring it back. Doubt it will come back.
I agree, as much as people complain, i personally dont think that enough people did ala carte to make it worth the time and effort to keep programming. A companies purpose is to make money. everything they do needs to nring in a ceartian amount of profit, if it doesnt they will cut it.
I'm going to make the prediction that ala carte will return eventually. I think it was temporarily taken away to make sure that they sold/pre-sold as many copies of the new rulebooks as possible. People would've been a lot more reluctant to make those purchases if they knew they could just ala carte them after they came out. Business psychology. Will it work out for them? Time will tell, but I think in about a year (or less) we'll see them bring back individual purchases all the while selling it as a "See? We listen to our customers!" kind of ballyhoo.
We'll see.
If customers are reluctant to buy DnD books due to ala cart purchases, or even complete the purchase by paying the remainder after the initial ala cart purchases are made (since quite a few imply they don't want more then 10-20% of a book) then there is no incentive for a company to bring it back. Doubt it will come back.
I agree, as much as people complain, i personally dont think that enough people did ala carte to make it worth the time and effort to keep programming. A companies purpose is to make money. everything they do needs to nring in a ceartian amount of profit, if it doesnt they will cut it.
But if those customers all cancel their subscriptions...
BTW, every digital sale, after R&D money is recouped, is 100% profit. So 100% of $30 is $30 and 100% of $2 is $2, and 100% of $0 is $0
But if those customers all cancel their subscriptions...
BTW, every digital sale, after R&D money is recouped, is 100% profit. So 100% of $30 is $30 and 100% of $2 is $2, and 100% of $0 is $0
its been 8 months since they made this decision, sure they lost subscriptions but apparently it wasn't a big enough loss to move the needle.
and no, a digital sale isnt 100% profit. writers and creators would get royalties, there is the cost of programing each part of the book, marketing costs, up keep on the code to maintain it pls other things we know nothing about.
but lets say its jsut the cost of development. they spend 20K a year to sell ala carte, and they make 50K thats a 30K profit. thats a good profit. But they could also take that 20K and put it towards something that will result in 100K in sales for am 80k profit. what is the better investment? there are lots of things like that going on that we know nothing about.
My guess is they are taking the costs and manpower they used programming ala carte and putting that towards Sigal, which they are betting on bringing in a much higher return on investment.
My guess is they are taking the costs and manpower they used programming ala carte and putting that towards Sigal, which they are betting on bringing in a much higher return on investment.
But if those customers all cancel their subscriptions...
BTW, every digital sale, after R&D money is recouped, is 100% profit. So 100% of $30 is $30 and 100% of $2 is $2, and 100% of $0 is $0
its been 8 months since they made this decision, sure they lost subscriptions but apparently it wasn't a big enough loss to move the needle.
and no, a digital sale isnt 100% profit. writers and creators would get royalties, there is the cost of programing each part of the book, marketing costs, up keep on the code to maintain it pls other things we know nothing about.
but lets say its jsut the cost of development. they spend 20K a year to sell ala carte, and they make 50K thats a 30K profit. thats a good profit. But they could also take that 20K and put it towards something that will result in 100K in sales for am 80k profit. what is the better investment? there are lots of things like that going on that we know nothing about.
My guess is they are taking the costs and manpower they used programming ala carte and putting that towards Sigal, which they are betting on bringing in a much higher return on investment.
First, employees do not get paid royalties. The writers and developers are employees and the content is the IP of WotC. Also, the writers work is done way before DDB gets in on it, they belong to the DnD division. Two different product teams.
As for your point about the length of time since the change has been made and the likelihood of reversal, you are correct. This was, I believe, the point that @Dragonbone63 was addressing. His prediction that this is all part of the plan. I'm not saying it is or isn't, but that was the basis of his post, which started this discussion.
You make a very good point about how a small amount of profit could be redirected, and that is very probably what's going on. I'm right with you on that one. But DDB makes most of their money on subscriptions. My hope, and it may be naive, is that there are enough customers upset about this loss that they cancel their subs and DDB loses real money on this deal. If that's not happening, then you are absolutely right that we are the minority of the customer base and that they don't need to care if they lose us. Won't stop me from campaigning though, and hoping that we are a larger force.
But if those customers all cancel their subscriptions...
BTW, every digital sale, after R&D money is recouped, is 100% profit. So 100% of $30 is $30 and 100% of $2 is $2, and 100% of $0 is $0
its been 8 months since they made this decision, sure they lost subscriptions but apparently it wasn't a big enough loss to move the needle.
and no, a digital sale isnt 100% profit. writers and creators would get royalties, there is the cost of programing each part of the book, marketing costs, up keep on the code to maintain it pls other things we know nothing about.
but lets say its jsut the cost of development. they spend 20K a year to sell ala carte, and they make 50K thats a 30K profit. thats a good profit. But they could also take that 20K and put it towards something that will result in 100K in sales for am 80k profit. what is the better investment? there are lots of things like that going on that we know nothing about.
My guess is they are taking the costs and manpower they used programming ala carte and putting that towards Sigal, which they are betting on bringing in a much higher return on investment.
First, employees do not get paid royalties. The writers and developers are employees and the content is the IP of WotC. Also, the writers work is done way before DDB gets in on it, they belong to the DnD division. Two different product teams.
As for your point about the length of time since the change has been made and the likelihood of reversal, you are correct. This was, I believe, the point that @Dragonbone63 was addressing. His prediction that this is all part of the plan. I'm not saying it is or isn't, but that was the basis of his post, which started this discussion.
You make a very good point about how a small amount of profit could be redirected, and that is very probably what's going on. I'm right with you on that one. But DDB makes most of their money on subscriptions. My hope, and it may be naive, is that there are enough customers upset about this loss that they cancel their subs and DDB loses real money on this deal. If that's not happening, then you are absolutely right that we are the minority of the customer base and that they don't need to care if they lose us. Won't stop me from campaigning though, and hoping that we are a larger force.
Most of the writers are contracted and will generally get royalties as part of their contracts. and those royalties will be given regardless of digital or physical delivery.
and as i said, if people were truly upset about it there would have been alot more cancelations already. but there is not. it is a very vocal very small minority that is against the decision.
But if those customers all cancel their subscriptions...
BTW, every digital sale, after R&D money is recouped, is 100% profit. So 100% of $30 is $30 and 100% of $2 is $2, and 100% of $0 is $0
its been 8 months since they made this decision, sure they lost subscriptions but apparently it wasn't a big enough loss to move the needle.
and no, a digital sale isnt 100% profit. writers and creators would get royalties, there is the cost of programing each part of the book, marketing costs, up keep on the code to maintain it pls other things we know nothing about.
but lets say its jsut the cost of development. they spend 20K a year to sell ala carte, and they make 50K thats a 30K profit. thats a good profit. But they could also take that 20K and put it towards something that will result in 100K in sales for am 80k profit. what is the better investment? there are lots of things like that going on that we know nothing about.
My guess is they are taking the costs and manpower they used programming ala carte and putting that towards Sigal, which they are betting on bringing in a much higher return on investment.
First, employees do not get paid royalties. The writers and developers are employees and the content is the IP of WotC. Also, the writers work is done way before DDB gets in on it, they belong to the DnD division. Two different product teams.
As for your point about the length of time since the change has been made and the likelihood of reversal, you are correct. This was, I believe, the point that @Dragonbone63 was addressing. His prediction that this is all part of the plan. I'm not saying it is or isn't, but that was the basis of his post, which started this discussion.
You make a very good point about how a small amount of profit could be redirected, and that is very probably what's going on. I'm right with you on that one. But DDB makes most of their money on subscriptions. My hope, and it may be naive, is that there are enough customers upset about this loss that they cancel their subs and DDB loses real money on this deal. If that's not happening, then you are absolutely right that we are the minority of the customer base and that they don't need to care if they lose us. Won't stop me from campaigning though, and hoping that we are a larger force.
Most of the writers are contracted and will generally get royalties as part of their contracts. and those royalties will be given regardless of digital or physical delivery.
and as i said, if people were truly upset about it there would have been alot more cancelations already. but there is not. it is a very vocal very small minority that is against the decision.
Thing is you can only cancel once, and wizbro gives us a reason to cancel at least every quarter. Not the best metric for customer satisfaction, unless you don't care about customer satisfaction 😉
But if those customers all cancel their subscriptions...
BTW, every digital sale, after R&D money is recouped, is 100% profit. So 100% of $30 is $30 and 100% of $2 is $2, and 100% of $0 is $0
its been 8 months since they made this decision, sure they lost subscriptions but apparently it wasn't a big enough loss to move the needle.
Not really enough time to see a trend in a product like this. It could be sales slowed because people had already bought everything the were interested in with the previous edition whether full books or ala cart.
Toss in a new edition to gum up metrics and, it'll take them some time to see how sales changed.
A bunch of DMS and Players I know have stop buying anything outside of core books and most haven't even bought those. They've stopped using DDB and gone back to pencil and paper because they are looking to illicit means of access instead. They aren't willing to pay wizbro for books where they only want 2-5% of the material. That's a club of 32 players DMs that I know of only 4 that have bought the 2024 and none are buying other books.
I'm 1 of the 4 in I've bought the Physical and digital PHB, will buy both DMG, and just digital MM. And that's it. I'm not buying anything else. I run my own adventures, or just update my collection of classic ones with the new rules. I'm not buying a book just to use one subclass. Unless they start just compiling class and sub class material in their own books, they won't get me to buy their compendiums because I don't care about most of what is in them. They need to stop wrapping DM and player material in the same books if they want more players buying. I doubt I'm the only DM/player that feels that way.
But if those customers all cancel their subscriptions...
BTW, every digital sale, after R&D money is recouped, is 100% profit. So 100% of $30 is $30 and 100% of $2 is $2, and 100% of $0 is $0
its been 8 months since they made this decision, sure they lost subscriptions but apparently it wasn't a big enough loss to move the needle.
Not really enough time to see a trend in a product like this. It could be sales slowed because people had already bought everything the were interested in with the previous edition whether full books or ala cart.
Toss in a new edition to gum up metrics and, it'll take them some time to see how sales changed.
A bunch of DMS and Players I know have stop buying anything outside of core books and most haven't even bought those. They've stopped using DDB and gone back to pencil and paper because they are looking to illicit means of access instead. They aren't willing to pay wizbro for books where they only want 2-5% of the material. That's a club of 32 players DMs that I know of only 4 that have bought the 2024 and none are buying other books.
I'm 1 of the 4 in I've bought the Physical and digital PHB, will buy both DMG, and just digital MM. And that's it. I'm not buying anything else. I run my own adventures, or just update my collection of classic ones with the new rules. I'm not buying a book just to use one subclass. Unless they start just compiling class and sub class material in their own books, they won't get me to buy their compendiums because I don't care about most of what is in them. They need to stop wrapping DM and player material in the same books if they want more players buying. I doubt I'm the only DM/player that feels that way.
Their real problem was publishing the new version without people simply buying the new parts they wanted.
Funnily enough, trying the new stuff actually doesn't mesh with previously purchased things, even with legacy options enabled. I have been having problems left and right. I'm sure they could have done something to help, but I doubt they will. Slowly phase all the old stuff out so they can bring out the "new" versions of it, with very little change except things like which level you get your subclass for clerics and warlocks for example. Not paying a penny more to WotC.
But if those customers all cancel their subscriptions...
BTW, every digital sale, after R&D money is recouped, is 100% profit. So 100% of $30 is $30 and 100% of $2 is $2, and 100% of $0 is $0
its been 8 months since they made this decision, sure they lost subscriptions but apparently it wasn't a big enough loss to move the needle.
and no, a digital sale isnt 100% profit. writers and creators would get royalties, there is the cost of programing each part of the book, marketing costs, up keep on the code to maintain it pls other things we know nothing about.
but lets say its jsut the cost of development. they spend 20K a year to sell ala carte, and they make 50K thats a 30K profit. thats a good profit. But they could also take that 20K and put it towards something that will result in 100K in sales for am 80k profit. what is the better investment? there are lots of things like that going on that we know nothing about.
My guess is they are taking the costs and manpower they used programming ala carte and putting that towards Sigal, which they are betting on bringing in a much higher return on investment.
Some ala carte sales have to have been giving them more money than people not buying anything at all anymore.
I personally just manually add to the homebrew the subclasses, spells etc based on what I want to add. If the people in charge were not so stubborn they would have made money out of the specific things that I wanted from the books like the one for Chronurgy etc.
Some ala carte sales have to have been giving them more money than people not buying anything at all anymore.
I personally just manually add to the homebrew the subclasses, spells etc based on what I want to add. If the people in charge were not so stubborn they would have made money out of the specific things that I wanted from the books like the one for Chronurgy etc.
Yea this is what I do now. I'm not very versed in the DDB homebrew system, so it's a little tough (and disheartening) for me but it's the only way I will ever get the subclasses and whatnot on DDB. I'm not playing any games right now, so it's not hitting that hard but most of the games I played were online so I've almost been not wanting to play knowing I have to deal with ALL of this over again should I do so. Wish I could homebrew the Artificer class. Or classes in general. Owell...
So, aside from a few quips here and there, I haven't posted to this thread in a while in general seriousness.
So, let me do so. Not that most folks care what a 60 year old lady whose been playing this game for over 45 years thinks, but the joy of the internet is that I get to do so.
They stopped the a la carte roughly 6 months before the new edition came out. I am, personally, sorta expecting it will return about six months after the release of the Monster Manual, next month. It will be a surprise to me if it does not -- it is, as many have noted "easy money". It is, as many have noted, something they have to program, and doing so for a whole new edition, with a whole new set of elements, is likely to be a bit more complex, especially since they they won't be able to offer that as easily with all the 3rd party stuff.
The 3rd Party stuff is going to require either the option be a part of the existing agreement with the other company, or have to be an individually re-negotiated thing, or simply not available for them.
If it is simply not available for 3rd party, we will have long threads complaining about how unfair it is that you can't piecemeal third party stuff and how as a result WotC will get no money from that person and they are canceling their subscription.
If it is only available for some and not for others, we will get long threads about how it is unfair and how WotC is treating 3rd party vendors differently, and that will devolve the same way.
If it is available to everyone, well, cool -- but I don't think that folks will have much fun buying the class from the Middle Earth games and finding out that they don't work very well within a regular D&D game, and they will complain about how that class isn't balanced well and so WotC sucks and this one isn't even a predictive effort, since folks are already doing this. Because it is sold here, some folks still think that wotC created these things, and that they are official stuff -- and while that is in no way the fault of WotC (like a lot of things they get blamed for), it still happens.
Nevertheless, I do expect that a la carte shopping will return -- in some form, at the least. I do think that it will be tied to the Sigil system, and to the Maps system. I do not think it will be a complete thing: you won't be able to buy just a class from the 2024 PHB, for example. You won't be able to buy 2014 stuff, and the new MM will not let you buy a lot of the cool new monsters, is what I think.
But a la carte only really works if you have things to buy, and right now, the only things to buy for the 2024 update are the DMG and PHB. If you don't plan to move forward, well, you won't be getting a la carte is my read of things. So we will have long threads about how that is horrible and terrible and all that and WotC is evil and they are trying to force people and so no more buying and canceling of subscriptions and so on.
(I sense a pattern here)
the real kicker is why I think it will return, and why I think they will do it following the release of new stuff: because it makes sense, given the current Hasbro corporate short and long term strategy and the way in which they are expecting to use the revenue from D&D.
D&D has nearly caught up with MTG in terms of corporate revenue as of 2023, and the whole year has remain steady. D&D is actually higher margin than MTG, as well -- the key is to ramp up the areas where that margin exists, which iis outside of physical goods.
Which isn't a guess, that's in the prospectus and reports. And the stoppage fits the general overall objectives of that strategy, as does the return -- you stop while the new system is rolled out and you build up something to sell, and then you let it loose.
Because 1 thing is true: WotC does not want people to continue to play 2014. It is not a good business decision. They do it for the goodwill -- the opposite of all those threads calling the terrible and horrible -- and it is effective, but the ultimate objective is to reduce that because that isn't going to gain them revenue going forward in the same way that a new edition does, since everything now will be for the new edition and will make it harder and harder to use the older edition since the power creep is present and the new stuff won't work properly, and they are not going to release something that is going to work with 2014.
Now, they already stated this indirectly. This is the whole point of the "Use 2024 rules and bring missing 2014 stuff forward" style of compatibility. But a lot of flks simply refuse to do that -- and those folks, for however many they may be, are not the majority nor even the most important people hat WotC needs to reach (from a business standpoint).
2014 holdouts are not a revenue generating market segment. Neither are 4e holdouts, 3e holdouts, 2e holdouts, 1e holdouts, Basic holdouts, etc. this does not mean that they on't buyt he stuff -- it means they aren't the segment that WotC is concerned with in relation to their overall business strategy.
And it doesn't matter what you think they should or could do. It doesn't matter what I think they should or could do. That's like complaining about Google or Meta being full of people you wouldn't have in your house if you could help it.
And, lest you think I am being a bit hard on 2014 hold outs, remember that I stayed with 2e for 25 years, and then on top of that I am a 60 year old woman. I am also not a revenue generating market segment, lol. I am a freaking dinosaur. My value is in them seeing me and saying stuff like "I wonder if we can get her to write long ass posts in forums and on social media for free about how awesome we are and stir up nostalgia for things to drum up further interest in future products".
So as someone who held out for 2 complete editions of the game (and still hates one of them with a fiery passion), it surely wouldn't be righteous of me to be too hard on them -- but also, I know that most of them are also still going though their first "edition change", and that this is a "light version" and they haven't seen anything yet, and that when there is a 6th edition sometime in the 2030s they will be stunned by what a full edition change is like.
And I don't have a problem with them doing so. But they do have to recognize that the company is not going to create anything or sell anything for 2014 that isn't already there. That's it. The edition is done. Eventually, once the sales have petered down to a certain level, it will all go to the DMs Guild as well just like all the other older editions. It is not free to maintain the stuff on this site. It may not be expensive, but it is not free. Push comes to shove, it will drop off.
Not anytime soon, mind you. I'm talking at least five years out.
So, come, oh, July to September, that time frame or so, I do expect to see a la carte brought back. With a full campaign to market it. Sigil development may slow that down a bit.
And one of the things they will say when they do it is "well, people really wanted it back". They will harp on it, as if their bringing it back is them capitulating to public outcry cry. "Back by popular demand", "You told us, and we listened", and other such phrases.
Not because they actually did, mind you. But because that will make it seem like they did. That's how this works. And, because they did stop it and because all these folks complained about it, and because it will have been a year...
Well, they will make more money from a la carte than they did before. And that isn't predictive effort, either. That's just standard marketing and the current Corporate Strategy.
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Nevertheless, I do expect that a la carte shopping will return -- in some form, at the least. I do think that it will be tied to the Sigil system, and to the Maps system. I do not think it will be a complete thing: you won't be able to buy just a class from the 2024 PHB, for example. You won't be able to buy 2014 stuff, and the new MM will not let you buy a lot of the cool new monsters, is what I think.
Yea but ALC shopping in and of itself was not the whole problem, it was HOW they got rid of it. It was sudden, silent, and it took outrage from multiple posts to get a single moderator to come out and say they hear us. That's it. It is on top of many other things that make me not want to purchase anything at all, even if they brought back ALC shopping. I don't want to endorse this sort of practice towards loving fans of the franchise.
Nevertheless, I do expect that a la carte shopping will return -- in some form, at the least. I do think that it will be tied to the Sigil system, and to the Maps system. I do not think it will be a complete thing: you won't be able to buy just a class from the 2024 PHB, for example. You won't be able to buy 2014 stuff, and the new MM will not let you buy a lot of the cool new monsters, is what I think.
Yea but ALC shopping in and of itself was not the whole problem, it was HOW they got rid of it. It was sudden, silent, and it took outrage from multiple posts to get a single moderator to come out and say they hear us. That's it. It is on top of many other things that make me not want to purchase anything at all, even if they brought back ALC shopping. I don't want to endorse this sort of practice towards loving fans of the franchise.
"It's not what they did, it's how they did it" - that makes no sense to me..
The marketplace changes and the removal of ala carte was removed on 30th of April after site maintenance, a post was on the homepage of DnDbeyond on the 1st of may, this thread started on the 1st of may.
DnDbeyond:
Announced there was maintenance due surrounding the marketplace.
Notified everyone via home page post within 24hrs of change.
Allowed people to complete previous ala carte purchases.
In your mind what should of DnDbeyond done differently?
Nevertheless, I do expect that a la carte shopping will return -- in some form, at the least. I do think that it will be tied to the Sigil system, and to the Maps system. I do not think it will be a complete thing: you won't be able to buy just a class from the 2024 PHB, for example. You won't be able to buy 2014 stuff, and the new MM will not let you buy a lot of the cool new monsters, is what I think.
Yea but ALC shopping in and of itself was not the whole problem, it was HOW they got rid of it. It was sudden, silent, and it took outrage from multiple posts to get a single moderator to come out and say they hear us. That's it. It is on top of many other things that make me not want to purchase anything at all, even if they brought back ALC shopping. I don't want to endorse this sort of practice towards loving fans of the franchise.
"It's not what they did, it's how they did it" - that makes no sense to me..
The marketplace changes and the removal of ala carte was removed on 30th of April after site maintenance, a post was on the homepage of DnDbeyond on the 1st of may, this thread started on the 1st of may.
DnDbeyond:
Announced there was maintenance due surrounding the marketplace.
Notified everyone via home page post within 24hrs of change.
Allowed people to complete previous ala carte purchases.
In your mind what should of DnDbeyond done differently?
Explained that they were removing the option and given time for people to purchase what they wanted. They just did it during a general site update and never officially mentioned doing it since, other than a single employee making a comment. It was either an oversight or simply that they didn't care because having people purchase what they wanted en masse is not in their interest with a new version around the corner. Probably both if you ask me.
I think it's what they did and how they did it, that made many people (including me) throw the towel in.
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DM subscriber since I joined this website. Ended my subscription June 2024 due to the removal of individual purchases. Was the only reason I ever bothered with this website. I use it for character building for my players and occasional referencing. I don't want digital books that can be removed whenever the company sees fit.
January 2025: seems it was a correct move. They're removing 2014 content that we paid for in lieu of their new version of the game. You only rent content on here, never own.
Nevertheless, I do expect that a la carte shopping will return -- in some form, at the least. I do think that it will be tied to the Sigil system, and to the Maps system. I do not think it will be a complete thing: you won't be able to buy just a class from the 2024 PHB, for example. You won't be able to buy 2014 stuff, and the new MM will not let you buy a lot of the cool new monsters, is what I think.
Yea but ALC shopping in and of itself was not the whole problem, it was HOW they got rid of it. It was sudden, silent, and it took outrage from multiple posts to get a single moderator to come out and say they hear us. That's it. It is on top of many other things that make me not want to purchase anything at all, even if they brought back ALC shopping. I don't want to endorse this sort of practice towards loving fans of the franchise.
"It's not what they did, it's how they did it" - that makes no sense to me..
The marketplace changes and the removal of ala carte was removed on 30th of April after site maintenance, a post was on the homepage of DnDbeyond on the 1st of may, this thread started on the 1st of may.
DnDbeyond:
Announced there was maintenance due surrounding the marketplace.
Notified everyone via home page post within 24hrs of change.
Allowed people to complete previous ala carte purchases.
In your mind what should of DnDbeyond done differently?
Oh, I don’t know, maybe be honest about it ending and giving the community a last chance sale? Except the general community was told after the fact, and per usual it was handled poorly in response, and never really addressed.
Maybe do better, or why should anyone trust something that has zero credibility in customer service, and a corporate mentality of more dollars and less sense?
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
" Darkvision doesn’t work in Magical darkness, and if something is magical, Never Trust it acts the same way as a non-magical version of that same thing!”- Discotech Mage over a cup of joe.
Nevertheless, I do expect that a la carte shopping will return -- in some form, at the least. I do think that it will be tied to the Sigil system, and to the Maps system. I do not think it will be a complete thing: you won't be able to buy just a class from the 2024 PHB, for example. You won't be able to buy 2014 stuff, and the new MM will not let you buy a lot of the cool new monsters, is what I think.
Yea but ALC shopping in and of itself was not the whole problem, it was HOW they got rid of it. It was sudden, silent, and it took outrage from multiple posts to get a single moderator to come out and say they hear us. That's it. It is on top of many other things that make me not want to purchase anything at all, even if they brought back ALC shopping. I don't want to endorse this sort of practice towards loving fans of the franchise.
"It's not what they did, it's how they did it" - that makes no sense to me..
The marketplace changes and the removal of ala carte was removed on 30th of April after site maintenance, a post was on the homepage of DnDbeyond on the 1st of may, this thread started on the 1st of may.
DnDbeyond:
Announced there was maintenance due surrounding the marketplace.
Notified everyone via home page post within 24hrs of change.
Allowed people to complete previous ala carte purchases.
In your mind what should of DnDbeyond done differently?
Explained that they were removing the option and given time for people to purchase what they wanted. They just did it during a general site update and never officially mentioned doing it since, other than a single employee making a comment. It was either an oversight or simply that they didn't care because having people purchase what they wanted en masse is not in their interest with a new version around the corner. Probably both if you ask me.
I think it's what they did and how they did it, that made many people (including me) throw the towel in.
did people not have enough time to purchase the material they desired in all those years (since 2017) prior to wotc purchasing dndbeyond?? if a customer hadnt bought by then, likelihood is the customer never planned to.
however lets say they gave a week or even a months notice on the site that ala carte was being removed, what then..
a potential increase in kneejerk small purchases
a prolonged transition between marketplaces
further burden on support team dealing with those potential kneejerk purchases
lingering influence and liability from those potential kneejerk purchases
ala carte still gets removed
the new core 3 (phb, dmg, mm) still get released
users/players getting annoyed of changes and potentially opt out
so overall what truely changes if that notice was given beforehand?? perhaps nothing from a business standpoint...
"It's not what they did, it's how they did it" - that makes no sense to me..
The marketplace changes and the removal of ala carte was removed on 30th of April after site maintenance, a post was on the homepage of DnDbeyond on the 1st of may, this thread started on the 1st of may.
DnDbeyond:
Announced there was maintenance due surrounding the marketplace.
Notified everyone via home page post within 24hrs of change.
Allowed people to complete previous ala carte purchases.
In your mind what should of DnDbeyond done differently?
Oh, I don’t know, maybe be honest about it ending and giving the community a last chance sale? Except the general community was told after the fact, and per usual it was handled poorly in response, and never really addressed.
Maybe do better, or why should anyone trust something that has zero credibility in customer service, and a corporate mentality of more dollars and less sense?
that implies they were dishonest, did the new owners of dndbeyond (wotc) ever make an announcement contrary to the removal of the ala carte system, if so can you link it because i personally dont recall anything along those lines
a post was made within 24hrs of the change, how does that not count as addressing it.... after the staff posted that ala carte was removed, and stated previous ala carte purchases would still be honoured:
what more could they do or say on the matter to address the topic further to your satisfaction outside of stating "ala carte is no longer supported, previous ala carte will be honoured"??
besides being told 24hrs after the fact (which cannot change), what is the issue... how is it remedied/corrected in your mind??
how would you of handled it differently after the removal of ala carte purchases??
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If customers are reluctant to buy DnD books due to ala cart purchases, or even complete the purchase by paying the remainder after the initial ala cart purchases are made (since quite a few imply they don't want more then 10-20% of a book) then there is no incentive for a company to bring it back. Doubt it will come back.
I agree, as much as people complain, i personally dont think that enough people did ala carte to make it worth the time and effort to keep programming. A companies purpose is to make money. everything they do needs to nring in a ceartian amount of profit, if it doesnt they will cut it.
But if those customers all cancel their subscriptions...
BTW, every digital sale, after R&D money is recouped, is 100% profit. So 100% of $30 is $30 and 100% of $2 is $2, and 100% of $0 is $0
its been 8 months since they made this decision, sure they lost subscriptions but apparently it wasn't a big enough loss to move the needle.
and no, a digital sale isnt 100% profit. writers and creators would get royalties, there is the cost of programing each part of the book, marketing costs, up keep on the code to maintain it pls other things we know nothing about.
but lets say its jsut the cost of development. they spend 20K a year to sell ala carte, and they make 50K thats a 30K profit. thats a good profit. But they could also take that 20K and put it towards something that will result in 100K in sales for am 80k profit. what is the better investment? there are lots of things like that going on that we know nothing about.
My guess is they are taking the costs and manpower they used programming ala carte and putting that towards Sigal, which they are betting on bringing in a much higher return on investment.
You might just be right about that.
First, employees do not get paid royalties. The writers and developers are employees and the content is the IP of WotC. Also, the writers work is done way before DDB gets in on it, they belong to the DnD division. Two different product teams.
As for your point about the length of time since the change has been made and the likelihood of reversal, you are correct. This was, I believe, the point that @Dragonbone63 was addressing. His prediction that this is all part of the plan. I'm not saying it is or isn't, but that was the basis of his post, which started this discussion.
You make a very good point about how a small amount of profit could be redirected, and that is very probably what's going on. I'm right with you on that one. But DDB makes most of their money on subscriptions. My hope, and it may be naive, is that there are enough customers upset about this loss that they cancel their subs and DDB loses real money on this deal. If that's not happening, then you are absolutely right that we are the minority of the customer base and that they don't need to care if they lose us. Won't stop me from campaigning though, and hoping that we are a larger force.
Most of the writers are contracted and will generally get royalties as part of their contracts. and those royalties will be given regardless of digital or physical delivery.
and as i said, if people were truly upset about it there would have been alot more cancelations already. but there is not. it is a very vocal very small minority that is against the decision.
Thing is you can only cancel once, and wizbro gives us a reason to cancel at least every quarter. Not the best metric for customer satisfaction, unless you don't care about customer satisfaction 😉
CENSORSHIP IS THE TOOL OF COWARDS and WANNA BE TYRANTS.
Not really enough time to see a trend in a product like this. It could be sales slowed because people had already bought everything the were interested in with the previous edition whether full books or ala cart.
Toss in a new edition to gum up metrics and, it'll take them some time to see how sales changed.
A bunch of DMS and Players I know have stop buying anything outside of core books and most haven't even bought those. They've stopped using DDB and gone back to pencil and paper because they are looking to illicit means of access instead. They aren't willing to pay wizbro for books where they only want 2-5% of the material.
That's a club of 32 players DMs that I know of only 4 that have bought the 2024 and none are buying other books.
I'm 1 of the 4 in I've bought the Physical and digital PHB, will buy both DMG, and just digital MM. And that's it. I'm not buying anything else. I run my own adventures, or just update my collection of classic ones with the new rules. I'm not buying a book just to use one subclass. Unless they start just compiling class and sub class material in their own books, they won't get me to buy their compendiums because I don't care about most of what is in them. They need to stop wrapping DM and player material in the same books if they want more players buying. I doubt I'm the only DM/player that feels that way.
Their real problem was publishing the new version without people simply buying the new parts they wanted.
Funnily enough, trying the new stuff actually doesn't mesh with previously purchased things, even with legacy options enabled. I have been having problems left and right. I'm sure they could have done something to help, but I doubt they will. Slowly phase all the old stuff out so they can bring out the "new" versions of it, with very little change except things like which level you get your subclass for clerics and warlocks for example. Not paying a penny more to WotC.
Petition
https://www.change.org/p/restore-a-la-carte-purchasing-on-d-d-beyond?source_location=psf_petitions
Some ala carte sales have to have been giving them more money than people not buying anything at all anymore.
I personally just manually add to the homebrew the subclasses, spells etc based on what I want to add. If the people in charge were not so stubborn they would have made money out of the specific things that I wanted from the books like the one for Chronurgy etc.
Yea this is what I do now. I'm not very versed in the DDB homebrew system, so it's a little tough (and disheartening) for me but it's the only way I will ever get the subclasses and whatnot on DDB. I'm not playing any games right now, so it's not hitting that hard but most of the games I played were online so I've almost been not wanting to play knowing I have to deal with ALL of this over again should I do so.
Wish I could homebrew the Artificer class. Or classes in general. Owell...
So, aside from a few quips here and there, I haven't posted to this thread in a while in general seriousness.
So, let me do so. Not that most folks care what a 60 year old lady whose been playing this game for over 45 years thinks, but the joy of the internet is that I get to do so.
They stopped the a la carte roughly 6 months before the new edition came out. I am, personally, sorta expecting it will return about six months after the release of the Monster Manual, next month. It will be a surprise to me if it does not -- it is, as many have noted "easy money". It is, as many have noted, something they have to program, and doing so for a whole new edition, with a whole new set of elements, is likely to be a bit more complex, especially since they they won't be able to offer that as easily with all the 3rd party stuff.
The 3rd Party stuff is going to require either the option be a part of the existing agreement with the other company, or have to be an individually re-negotiated thing, or simply not available for them.
If it is simply not available for 3rd party, we will have long threads complaining about how unfair it is that you can't piecemeal third party stuff and how as a result WotC will get no money from that person and they are canceling their subscription.
If it is only available for some and not for others, we will get long threads about how it is unfair and how WotC is treating 3rd party vendors differently, and that will devolve the same way.
If it is available to everyone, well, cool -- but I don't think that folks will have much fun buying the class from the Middle Earth games and finding out that they don't work very well within a regular D&D game, and they will complain about how that class isn't balanced well and so WotC sucks and this one isn't even a predictive effort, since folks are already doing this. Because it is sold here, some folks still think that wotC created these things, and that they are official stuff -- and while that is in no way the fault of WotC (like a lot of things they get blamed for), it still happens.
Nevertheless, I do expect that a la carte shopping will return -- in some form, at the least. I do think that it will be tied to the Sigil system, and to the Maps system. I do not think it will be a complete thing: you won't be able to buy just a class from the 2024 PHB, for example. You won't be able to buy 2014 stuff, and the new MM will not let you buy a lot of the cool new monsters, is what I think.
But a la carte only really works if you have things to buy, and right now, the only things to buy for the 2024 update are the DMG and PHB. If you don't plan to move forward, well, you won't be getting a la carte is my read of things. So we will have long threads about how that is horrible and terrible and all that and WotC is evil and they are trying to force people and so no more buying and canceling of subscriptions and so on.
(I sense a pattern here)
the real kicker is why I think it will return, and why I think they will do it following the release of new stuff: because it makes sense, given the current Hasbro corporate short and long term strategy and the way in which they are expecting to use the revenue from D&D.
D&D has nearly caught up with MTG in terms of corporate revenue as of 2023, and the whole year has remain steady. D&D is actually higher margin than MTG, as well -- the key is to ramp up the areas where that margin exists, which iis outside of physical goods.
Which isn't a guess, that's in the prospectus and reports. And the stoppage fits the general overall objectives of that strategy, as does the return -- you stop while the new system is rolled out and you build up something to sell, and then you let it loose.
Because 1 thing is true: WotC does not want people to continue to play 2014. It is not a good business decision. They do it for the goodwill -- the opposite of all those threads calling the terrible and horrible -- and it is effective, but the ultimate objective is to reduce that because that isn't going to gain them revenue going forward in the same way that a new edition does, since everything now will be for the new edition and will make it harder and harder to use the older edition since the power creep is present and the new stuff won't work properly, and they are not going to release something that is going to work with 2014.
Now, they already stated this indirectly. This is the whole point of the "Use 2024 rules and bring missing 2014 stuff forward" style of compatibility. But a lot of flks simply refuse to do that -- and those folks, for however many they may be, are not the majority nor even the most important people hat WotC needs to reach (from a business standpoint).
2014 holdouts are not a revenue generating market segment. Neither are 4e holdouts, 3e holdouts, 2e holdouts, 1e holdouts, Basic holdouts, etc. this does not mean that they on't buyt he stuff -- it means they aren't the segment that WotC is concerned with in relation to their overall business strategy.
And it doesn't matter what you think they should or could do. It doesn't matter what I think they should or could do. That's like complaining about Google or Meta being full of people you wouldn't have in your house if you could help it.
And, lest you think I am being a bit hard on 2014 hold outs, remember that I stayed with 2e for 25 years, and then on top of that I am a 60 year old woman. I am also not a revenue generating market segment, lol. I am a freaking dinosaur. My value is in them seeing me and saying stuff like "I wonder if we can get her to write long ass posts in forums and on social media for free about how awesome we are and stir up nostalgia for things to drum up further interest in future products".
So as someone who held out for 2 complete editions of the game (and still hates one of them with a fiery passion), it surely wouldn't be righteous of me to be too hard on them -- but also, I know that most of them are also still going though their first "edition change", and that this is a "light version" and they haven't seen anything yet, and that when there is a 6th edition sometime in the 2030s they will be stunned by what a full edition change is like.
And I don't have a problem with them doing so. But they do have to recognize that the company is not going to create anything or sell anything for 2014 that isn't already there. That's it. The edition is done. Eventually, once the sales have petered down to a certain level, it will all go to the DMs Guild as well just like all the other older editions. It is not free to maintain the stuff on this site. It may not be expensive, but it is not free. Push comes to shove, it will drop off.
Not anytime soon, mind you. I'm talking at least five years out.
So, come, oh, July to September, that time frame or so, I do expect to see a la carte brought back. With a full campaign to market it. Sigil development may slow that down a bit.
And one of the things they will say when they do it is "well, people really wanted it back". They will harp on it, as if their bringing it back is them capitulating to public outcry cry. "Back by popular demand", "You told us, and we listened", and other such phrases.
Not because they actually did, mind you. But because that will make it seem like they did. That's how this works. And, because they did stop it and because all these folks complained about it, and because it will have been a year...
Well, they will make more money from a la carte than they did before. And that isn't predictive effort, either. That's just standard marketing and the current Corporate Strategy.
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Yea but ALC shopping in and of itself was not the whole problem, it was HOW they got rid of it. It was sudden, silent, and it took outrage from multiple posts to get a single moderator to come out and say they hear us. That's it.
It is on top of many other things that make me not want to purchase anything at all, even if they brought back ALC shopping. I don't want to endorse this sort of practice towards loving fans of the franchise.
"It's not what they did, it's how they did it" - that makes no sense to me..
The marketplace changes and the removal of ala carte was removed on 30th of April after site maintenance, a post was on the homepage of DnDbeyond on the 1st of may, this thread started on the 1st of may.
DnDbeyond:
In your mind what should of DnDbeyond done differently?
Explained that they were removing the option and given time for people to purchase what they wanted. They just did it during a general site update and never officially mentioned doing it since, other than a single employee making a comment. It was either an oversight or simply that they didn't care because having people purchase what they wanted en masse is not in their interest with a new version around the corner. Probably both if you ask me.
I think it's what they did and how they did it, that made many people (including me) throw the towel in.
DM subscriber since I joined this website. Ended my subscription June 2024 due to the removal of individual purchases. Was the only reason I ever bothered with this website. I use it for character building for my players and occasional referencing. I don't want digital books that can be removed whenever the company sees fit.
January 2025: seems it was a correct move. They're removing 2014 content that we paid for in lieu of their new version of the game. You only rent content on here, never own.
Oh, I don’t know, maybe be honest about it ending and giving the community a last chance sale? Except the general community was told after the fact, and per usual it was handled poorly in response, and never really addressed.
Maybe do better, or why should anyone trust something that has zero credibility in customer service, and a corporate mentality of more dollars and less sense?
" Darkvision doesn’t work in Magical darkness, and if something is magical, Never Trust it acts the same way as a non-magical version of that same thing!”- Discotech Mage over a cup of joe.
did people not have enough time to purchase the material they desired in all those years (since 2017) prior to wotc purchasing dndbeyond??
if a customer hadnt bought by then, likelihood is the customer never planned to.
however lets say they gave a week or even a months notice on the site that ala carte was being removed, what then..
so overall what truely changes if that notice was given beforehand?? perhaps nothing from a business standpoint...
that implies they were dishonest, did the new owners of dndbeyond (wotc) ever make an announcement contrary to the removal of the ala carte system, if so can you link it because i personally dont recall anything along those lines
a post was made within 24hrs of the change, how does that not count as addressing it....
after the staff posted that ala carte was removed, and stated previous ala carte purchases would still be honoured: