Nevertheless, I do expect that a la carte shopping will return -- in some form, at the least. I do think that it will be tied to the Sigil system, and to the Maps system. I do not think it will be a complete thing: you won't be able to buy just a class from the 2024 PHB, for example. You won't be able to buy 2014 stuff, and the new MM will not let you buy a lot of the cool new monsters, is what I think.
Yea but ALC shopping in and of itself was not the whole problem, it was HOW they got rid of it. It was sudden, silent, and it took outrage from multiple posts to get a single moderator to come out and say they hear us. That's it. It is on top of many other things that make me not want to purchase anything at all, even if they brought back ALC shopping. I don't want to endorse this sort of practice towards loving fans of the franchise.
"It's not what they did, it's how they did it" - that makes no sense to me..
The marketplace changes and the removal of ala carte was removed on 30th of April after site maintenance, a post was on the homepage of DnDbeyond on the 1st of may, this thread started on the 1st of may.
DnDbeyond:
Announced there was maintenance due surrounding the marketplace.
Notified everyone via home page post within 24hrs of change.
Allowed people to complete previous ala carte purchases.
In your mind what should of DnDbeyond done differently?
Explained that they were removing the option and given time for people to purchase what they wanted. They just did it during a general site update and never officially mentioned doing it since, other than a single employee making a comment. It was either an oversight or simply that they didn't care because having people purchase what they wanted en masse is not in their interest with a new version around the corner. Probably both if you ask me.
I think it's what they did and how they did it, that made many people (including me) throw the towel in.
did people not have enough time to purchase the material they desired in all those years (since 2017) prior to wotc purchasing dndbeyond?? if a customer hadnt bought by then, likelihood is the customer never planned to.
however lets say they gave a week or even a months notice on the site that ala carte was being removed, what then..
a potential increase in kneejerk small purchases
a prolonged transition between marketplaces
further burden on support team dealing with those potential kneejerk purchases
lingering influence and liability from those potential kneejerk purchases
ala carte still gets removed
the new core 3 (phb, dmg, mm) still get released
users/players getting annoyed of changes and potentially opt out
so overall what truely changes if that notice was given beforehand?? perhaps nothing from a business standpoint...
"It's not what they did, it's how they did it" - that makes no sense to me..
The marketplace changes and the removal of ala carte was removed on 30th of April after site maintenance, a post was on the homepage of DnDbeyond on the 1st of may, this thread started on the 1st of may.
DnDbeyond:
Announced there was maintenance due surrounding the marketplace.
Notified everyone via home page post within 24hrs of change.
Allowed people to complete previous ala carte purchases.
In your mind what should of DnDbeyond done differently?
Oh, I don’t know, maybe be honest about it ending and giving the community a last chance sale? Except the general community was told after the fact, and per usual it was handled poorly in response, and never really addressed.
Maybe do better, or why should anyone trust something that has zero credibility in customer service, and a corporate mentality of more dollars and less sense?
that implies they were dishonest, did the new owners of dndbeyond (wotc) ever make an announcement contrary to the removal of the ala carte system, if so can you link it because i personally dont recall anything along those lines
a post was made within 24hrs of the change, how does that not count as addressing it.... after the staff posted that ala carte was removed, and stated previous ala carte purchases would still be honoured:
what more could they do or say on the matter to address the topic further to your satisfaction outside of stating "ala carte is no longer supported, previous ala carte will be honoured"??
besides being told 24hrs after the fact (which cannot change), what is the issue... how is it remedied/corrected in your mind??
how would you of handled it differently after the removal of ala carte purchases??
No implication, straight up accusation of dishonesty considering they ( Wizbro )knew at the start of the year the end of a-la-carte was going to be discontinued. A heads up to the general community could have been made at the beginning of the year and allowed a final push of sales. But, no they didn’t give any type of formal announcement until after the fact. And it took several days for the administration to actually make an announcement that former alc purchases would still be credited, but never truly gave a timeline of cut-off.
And the cutting off of alc could have been moved to later, just before the release of the 2024 material. It was piss poorly handled and it cost the company more than they realized. It could have been handled far better, but as typical of the company since they acquired the site, it’s been all about squeezing the community out of money and not caring about the good-will of said community.
At this point returning ALC is the stupidest move they can make, because it would have no effect on returning community members to the site, and would be far too late to keep any sane person from supporting a company that insists on disrespecting and disregarding its customers.
Everyone who has posted about this knows Wizbro only cares about profits and not people, because if they did, they would have never acted the way they did. So defend the company all you want, fact is Wizbro burned themselves and they have zero respect or regard for the people that supported them, and only gives a care about how much money they can stuff in their own pockets. A far better solution is to actually be honest with the community, and quit being so sensitive to the backlash that occurs when Wizbro does stupid things without informing the general masses. And as a company that wants to go full digital, they had best learn to open their mouths before rather than after the fact, because only informing the community about changes after the fact will only cause more distrust in their management and products and the under-monetization problem they have will only get worse.
I expect Wizbro to do better, not continue to make stupid decisions that are going to hurt the community and in effect hurt their bottom line.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
" Darkvision doesn’t work in Magical darkness, and if something is magical, Never Trust it acts the same way as a non-magical version of that same thing!”- Discotech Mage over a cup of joe.
No implication, straight up accusation of dishonesty considering they ( Wizbro )knew at the start of the year the end of a-la-carte was going to be discontinued. A heads up to the general community could have been made at the beginning of the year and allowed a final push of sales. But, no they didn’t give any type of formal announcement until after the fact.
Heck some would have been happy if they at least stated WHY they did it. Didn't even do that. At this point even if they did, doubt anyone would believe them anymore.
No implication, straight up accusation of dishonesty considering they ( Wizbro )knew at the start of the year the end of a-la-carte was going to be discontinued. A heads up to the general community could have been made at the beginning of the year and allowed a final push of sales. But, no they didn’t give any type of formal announcement until after the fact.
Heck some would have been happy if they at least stated WHY they did it. Didn't even do that. At this point even if they did, doubt anyone would believe them anymore.
Like the O’ Jays once said: “For the Love of Money”. It all started when they attempted to recend the OGL due to under-monetized segment of the brand and when half the community stopped sending money, aka subscriptions dropped, backup of the service ticket system that drove requests to a 4 week waiting period, the A-la-carte fiasco coupled with the almost immediate rules swap that is being implemented in stages as to not draw attention to the fact that by march most of 2014 5E will have been effectively limited to just the compendium material only, like Wizbro said was going to happen no matter what, and after all that, barely a fraction of the former community is using the site, many are watching the meltdown of the site and subsidiary of WotC, and no longer recommending DDBeyond for D&D.
For the Love of Money! Yet if they had announced at the start of the year a-la-carte was going to be discontinued in say July, then they could have made a buck, but again they didn’t care, and the community suffered for it.
" Darkvision doesn’t work in Magical darkness, and if something is magical, Never Trust it acts the same way as a non-magical version of that same thing!”- Discotech Mage over a cup of joe.
Meanwhile, the site's signups have continued and the growth of the site continues, rather directly contradicting statements about "barely a fraction".
Over a million since this thread started. If just 1% of them ended up getting an account, that entire argument is spurious.
And that's just since the a la carte was ended. While some go to a lot of trouble to make it seem like those things all happened in a short period of time instead of over a year (and damn near a year and half), describing something that happened six months after a different one as "almost immediately" is flat out dishonesty and intentional, willful deception with malice.
Not that it is surprising, given the posting history; there are several people who's only reason to be here in the DDB forums is to bad mouth the company that has the absolute right -- without even touching the right to freedom of speech -- to kick anyone who does so out of the forums.
Yet they generally aren't upset they haven't done that yet, even though it would be 100% in line with what has been suggested they would do. In fact, some outside said they have been kicked out and how it is a violation of the freedom of speech, and other rather blunt lies (told outside this forum) of a similar nature, done with malice and a desire to deceive.
Hmm.
Strange that someone who gains only one true benefit from the site -- the searchable listing in an app -- notices this and points it out. Must be the benefit of that classical education, I suppose.
In any case, I still note that the amount of sudden goalpost moving -- that is, the statement that X is a problem until something pops up that says X isn't a problem, and then now we have a statement about how G is a problem, it was never really X in the first place" and so forth and so on is, well, disingenuous and in keeing witht hat already established pattern of dishonesty and malicious deception.
Which strikes me as unethical, likely immoral, and notably disinterested in actual solutions or any real truths, as well as lacking serious and significant consideration of the actual problem. WHich, really, they don't do because they typically avoid addressing the actual problem, and instead address things unrelated to it except tangentially, like the ending of a la carte sales.
It is the uninformed and emotional expulsion derived from a deep seated sense of entitlement that drives this, but, ultimately achieves nothing and harms the ultimate cause of those who engage in this malicious effort. Because it is an attack on something popular, and if nothing else can be said, when you do that to a bunch of folks who ae generally described as nerds, geeks, and freaks, well...
That just makes them more protective and more devoted. And once they realize that it is all done dishonestly, deceptively, unethically, and without real thought or consideration
So, given that, perhaps it makes a great deal of sense for the very people being attacked to allow them to remain and do that kind of thing.
as for me, I will note that my previous statement of which one small part was quoted is a statement that may well be wrong. I do not expect it to be so, but there is always that chance. However, it is based and drawn from truth and consideration of the subject, not as a narrow "i want this for me" thing, but as a broader element in a larger plan.
Because I give a damn about this. And since I give a damn about it, I strive to be honest, ethical, and to act with benefice. WHich is likely a better reason than a classical education.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
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Meanwhile, the site's signups have continued and the growth of the site continues, rather directly contradicting statements about "barely a fraction".
Over a million since this thread started. If just 1% of them ended up getting an account, that entire argument is spurious.
And that's just since the a la carte was ended. While some go to a lot of trouble to make it seem like those things all happened in a short period of time instead of over a year (and damn near a year and half), describing something that happened six months after a different one as "almost immediately" is flat out dishonesty and intentional, willful deception with malice.
Not that it is surprising, given the posting history; there are several people who's only reason to be here in the DDB forums is to bad mouth the company that has the absolute right -- without even touching the right to freedom of speech -- to kick anyone who does so out of the forums.
Yet they generally aren't upset they haven't done that yet, even though it would be 100% in line with what has been suggested they would do. In fact, some outside said they have been kicked out and how it is a violation of the freedom of speech, and other rather blunt lies (told outside this forum) of a similar nature, done with malice and a desire to deceive.
Hmm.
Strange that someone who gains only one true benefit from the site -- the searchable listing in an app -- notices this and points it out. Must be the benefit of that classical education, I suppose.
In any case, I still note that the amount of sudden goalpost moving -- that is, the statement that X is a problem until something pops up that says X isn't a problem, and then now we have a statement about how G is a problem, it was never really X in the first place" and so forth and so on is, well, disingenuous and in keeing witht hat already established pattern of dishonesty and malicious deception.
Which strikes me as unethical, likely immoral, and notably disinterested in actual solutions or any real truths, as well as lacking serious and significant consideration of the actual problem. WHich, really, they don't do because they typically avoid addressing the actual problem, and instead address things unrelated to it except tangentially, like the ending of a la carte sales.
It is the uninformed and emotional expulsion derived from a deep seated sense of entitlement that drives this, but, ultimately achieves nothing and harms the ultimate cause of those who engage in this malicious effort. Because it is an attack on something popular, and if nothing else can be said, when you do that to a bunch of folks who ae generally described as nerds, geeks, and freaks, well...
That just makes them more protective and more devoted. And once they realize that it is all done dishonestly, deceptively, unethically, and without real thought or consideration
So, given that, perhaps it makes a great deal of sense for the very people being attacked to allow them to remain and do that kind of thing.
as for me, I will note that my previous statement of which one small part was quoted is a statement that may well be wrong. I do not expect it to be so, but there is always that chance. However, it is based and drawn from truth and consideration of the subject, not as a narrow "i want this for me" thing, but as a broader element in a larger plan.
Because I give a damn about this. And since I give a damn about it, I strive to be honest, ethical, and to act with benefice. WHich is likely a better reason than a classical education.
Funny how when WotC took over the site, the ability to accurately track the number of accounts active has long since been broken. ( and yes it is broken, it only displays the number of accounts created, not how many are actually active, for that you can sometimes get a decent number from watching how many are members and how many are guest. ) if the same group of users, including moderators, admin, and a dozen others that are content creators are the only ones consistently logging in, thats one thing, but when asked how many users there really is, and I bet all creation we would never get a true and accurate account of the actual number of valid accounts active, accounts banned, accounts cancelled, and accounts of the daily , weekly, monthly, and quarterly accounts created and accounts lost.
Others wish to believe a company is responsible, others believe that company is full of (———-). Nothing Wizbro has done since buying this site has been worth the time or money to spend on. They knew when they couldn’t get the OGL recended and subs dropped, they screwed up majorly, and yet did the bare minimum to quickly and quietly bury any and all criticism and blah, blah, blah….
What gets me is why they proved they don’t care about anything other than money by just flat out saying nothing about ending ALC, locking out the former founders of the site till after they changed the marketplace, would have said nothing about the change if not for those who were paying attention at the time, and continued attitude of well if people don’t care, why are you complaining?
If a-la-carte hadn’t been abruptly and unknowingly been cut without notice thereof before they did it, this thread would not exist, so with all due respect, if users want to give feedback on this, here it is they F’ed the site up so much, I personally think it’s getting really hard to continue with it’s usefulness.
If they haven’t already restored alc by now, it will be back in the new VTT that is going to be the next EA sports lootboxes and subscriptions to use anything.
You and this site only care about users that spend hundreds of dollars on something that you can’t even own, or even get a tangible digital product that doesn’t rely on an internet connection.
For a multibillion dollar company, they certainly don’t care to spread a bit of good fortune to make this the best D&D source in all the digital realm, but as of late they have only proven that they have no idea what the F’ they are doing. Don’t like someone who tells it straight, then tough luck i have as much the right to provide fair and honest feedback about elements of this site.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
" Darkvision doesn’t work in Magical darkness, and if something is magical, Never Trust it acts the same way as a non-magical version of that same thing!”- Discotech Mage over a cup of joe.
Meanwhile, the site's signups have continued and the growth of the site continues, rather directly contradicting statements about "barely a fraction".
Over a million since this thread started. If just 1% of them ended up getting an account, that entire argument is spurious.
And that's just since the a la carte was ended. While some go to a lot of trouble to make it seem like those things all happened in a short period of time instead of over a year (and damn near a year and half), describing something that happened six months after a different one as "almost immediately" is flat out dishonesty and intentional, willful deception with malice.
Not that it is surprising, given the posting history; there are several people who's only reason to be here in the DDB forums is to bad mouth the company that has the absolute right -- without even touching the right to freedom of speech -- to kick anyone who does so out of the forums.
Yet they generally aren't upset they haven't done that yet, even though it would be 100% in line with what has been suggested they would do. In fact, some outside said they have been kicked out and how it is a violation of the freedom of speech, and other rather blunt lies (told outside this forum) of a similar nature, done with malice and a desire to deceive.
Hmm.
Strange that someone who gains only one true benefit from the site -- the searchable listing in an app -- notices this and points it out. Must be the benefit of that classical education, I suppose.
In any case, I still note that the amount of sudden goalpost moving -- that is, the statement that X is a problem until something pops up that says X isn't a problem, and then now we have a statement about how G is a problem, it was never really X in the first place" and so forth and so on is, well, disingenuous and in keeing witht hat already established pattern of dishonesty and malicious deception.
Which strikes me as unethical, likely immoral, and notably disinterested in actual solutions or any real truths, as well as lacking serious and significant consideration of the actual problem. WHich, really, they don't do because they typically avoid addressing the actual problem, and instead address things unrelated to it except tangentially, like the ending of a la carte sales.
It is the uninformed and emotional expulsion derived from a deep seated sense of entitlement that drives this, but, ultimately achieves nothing and harms the ultimate cause of those who engage in this malicious effort. Because it is an attack on something popular, and if nothing else can be said, when you do that to a bunch of folks who ae generally described as nerds, geeks, and freaks, well...
That just makes them more protective and more devoted. And once they realize that it is all done dishonestly, deceptively, unethically, and without real thought or consideration
So, given that, perhaps it makes a great deal of sense for the very people being attacked to allow them to remain and do that kind of thing.
as for me, I will note that my previous statement of which one small part was quoted is a statement that may well be wrong. I do not expect it to be so, but there is always that chance. However, it is based and drawn from truth and consideration of the subject, not as a narrow "i want this for me" thing, but as a broader element in a larger plan.
Because I give a damn about this. And since I give a damn about it, I strive to be honest, ethical, and to act with benefice. WHich is likely a better reason than a classical education.
Oh and the ogl happened end of 22, ended February of 23 ( before movie was released), and dropped ALC in may of 24, 4 months before the Master Tier Subscription release of the 24 rules. So yes, in very short order, Wizbro has been doing a road map that practically guarantees the future of D&D is in the very wrong hands, hands that are in it for the money, and not for anything else.
" Darkvision doesn’t work in Magical darkness, and if something is magical, Never Trust it acts the same way as a non-magical version of that same thing!”- Discotech Mage over a cup of joe.
Oh you are correct. Which is why I said getting rid of ALC was not the entire problem. It's HOW they did it which threw them into bad graces with the public, fanning a flame that should not have been this big. Seriously, it would have been simple:
"Hello everyone, we want to make an announcement! Unfortunately, in the near future, we are removing the option for A La Carte purchases. As much as we have tried, the much-beloved A La Carte purchases are turning out to be unprofitable by ways we cannot publicly share. We are very well aware that this is a beloved part of DnDBeyond and it breaks our hearts to see it go. We are looking into alternative methods to give our amazing fans what they want in the future after the new edition of Dungeons & Dragons has come out! Until then, we appreciate your understanding.
Sincerely, -The Dungeons & Dragons team"
There, that's it. Done. Sure there are still some people who would still be mad, can't make everyone happy, but more would understand. Like you said, they are trying to make money. So if the practice wasn't making money, then it makes sense to get rid of it. That isn't the reality though - we were never given the reason, so we are left to speculate. Said speculation needs to include WotC's track record. Said track record is horrendous. So it leads to suspecting a horrendous result. Again. Thus "Disgusting greed".
Seriously, if anyone complains about money, stop, they are in no position to pay for D&D. Feeding the business and employees is not their responsibility, especially when there are customers who would gladly do so. D&D is free; ask your D&D community for help. Physical books can be borrowed, digital tools can also be freely shared, and both are legal.
Removing à la carte purchases is stupid in my opinion. However, D&D is still free, so stop acting like it is not.
You and this site only care about users that spend hundreds of dollars on something that you can’t even own, or even get a tangible digital product that doesn’t rely on an internet connection.
Businesses sometimes focus on higher paying customers because they are generally easier to deal with. Compendium and database content are downloadable as webpages for offline use.
And yes by dropping ALC, wizbro has effectively forced people to have to ether fork over a larger amount of money to use small portions of the “services” or walk away to find cheaper alternatives. Why do you think they have been pushing the 3rd party content and the new version so hard. The lost of the trickle that was ALC coupled with the lost of subs from the OGL debacle must be significant enough for them to have to push for more sales to compensate for the loss.
There is also the alternative of just staying on Beyond and asking the community for help to access paid content. Beyond is free. No one has to leave Beyond over money issues.
Seriously, if anyone complains about money, stop, they are in no position to pay for D&D. Feeding the business and employees is not their responsibility, especially when there are customers who would gladly do so. D&D is free; ask your D&D community for help. Physical books can be borrowed, digital tools can also be freely shared, and both are legal.
Removing à la carte purchases is stupid in my opinion. However, D&D is still free, so stop acting like it is not.
You and this site only care about users that spend hundreds of dollars on something that you can’t even own, or even get a tangible digital product that doesn’t rely on an internet connection.
Businesses sometimes focus on higher paying customers because they are generally easier to deal with. Compendium and database content are downloadable as webpages for offline use.
And yes by dropping ALC, wizbro has effectively forced people to have to ether fork over a larger amount of money to use small portions of the “services” or walk away to find cheaper alternatives. Why do you think they have been pushing the 3rd party content and the new version so hard. The lost of the trickle that was ALC coupled with the lost of subs from the OGL debacle must be significant enough for them to have to push for more sales to compensate for the loss.
There is also the alternative of just staying on Beyond and asking the community for help to access paid content. Beyond is free. No one has to leave Beyond over money issues.
Don’t need help with the content or need to bother others with accessing paid content, more than willing to do the actual hard work of making the homebrew needed. But when a lot of that hard work is going to be flushed down the toilet because the company that provides the ability to do it finds it unprofitable, and starts to disrupt and ruin the ability to effectively utilize the services that many others might otherwise not use because of financial constraints, what’s the solution? Beg others for temporary access to elements they have, and hope you don’t piss them off?
[Redacted]
A la carte was killed off because lesser and lesser content was being developed for it. because the company was not making as much as pushing the whole of the content and the piecemeal purchases were probably preventing them from getting more money from wholesale content distribution.
[Redacted]
I’ve spent more time and effort in actually learning and utilizing the the previous free material, and data entering the needed information, then spending good hard earned money on piss poor quality and unsupported elements of material that is mostly useless to the services. A la carte was the best and fastest way for players and DM’s to get better involved in the hobby, and because it wasn’t raking in tons of money, it was chopped down all so the company could profit more.
And now with ever increasing prospect that the former services and content that were being offered are going to be replaced, and still the company is unlikely and possibly unwilling to openly discuss the changes that will be made, well if the company fails it the companies own fault for it, not the community.
[Redacted]
A la carte is DEAD, and nothing Wizbro can do from this point forward, is ever going to change or even make up for the disrespect that has been the motivation of the company.
And btw, how long before free becomes another under-monetized problem for the company, and the decision to no longer offer free services is discontinued without any word or reason from the company? Like a la carte service was discontinued without any reason or real explanation?
" Darkvision doesn’t work in Magical darkness, and if something is magical, Never Trust it acts the same way as a non-magical version of that same thing!”- Discotech Mage over a cup of joe.
Oh you are correct. Which is why I said getting rid of ALC was not the entire problem. It's HOW they did it which threw them into bad graces with the public, fanning a flame that should not have been this big. Seriously, it would have been simple:
"Hello everyone, we want to make an announcement! Unfortunately, in the near future, we are removing the option for A La Carte purchases. As much as we have tried, the much-beloved A La Carte purchases are turning out to be unprofitable by ways we cannot publicly share. We are very well aware that this is a beloved part of DnDBeyond and it breaks our hearts to see it go. We are looking into alternative methods to give our amazing fans what they want in the future after the new edition of Dungeons & Dragons has come out! Until then, we appreciate your understanding.
Sincerely, -The Dungeons & Dragons team"
There, that's it. Done. Sure there are still some people who would still be mad, can't make everyone happy, but more would understand. Like you said, they are trying to make money. So if the practice wasn't making money, then it makes sense to get rid of it. That isn't the reality though - we were never given the reason, so we are left to speculate. Said speculation needs to include WotC's track record. Said track record is horrendous. So it leads to suspecting a horrendous result. Again. Thus "Disgusting greed".
If only we had actually gotten that type of statement from the beginning, but nope a la carte was killed with barely a whimper.
How’s the saying go: “better to ask for forgiveness than to seek permission”, well both forgiveness and permission DENIED.
" Darkvision doesn’t work in Magical darkness, and if something is magical, Never Trust it acts the same way as a non-magical version of that same thing!”- Discotech Mage over a cup of joe.
To maintain a peaceful forum, all forms of non-constructive posting will be limited. These often include:
Making off-topic posts within a thread to derail the conversation. Engaging in behaviors that serve as destructive, exclusive, disrespectful, or otherwise creating a disturbance within a thread. Posting accusations of others’ behavior, calling out users, their logic, or labeling them with such. Engaging in bad faith argument. Denouncing or attempting to limit the methods, flavors, or fun in which others experience D&D. Attempting to limit or govern who can/cannot (or should/should not) engage in D&D-related features/activities. “Grouping up” or garnering others against an individual.
This thread started to give advice on how to get you discounts from previous à la carte purchases, and naturally people voicing their opinions on the removal of à la carte purchasing. It is more than fine to do that. You can be critical of that choice, you can give feedback and state your opinions, negative or positive.
You may not start attacking each other or each other's logic. Nor derail the conversation with long tangents on other topics. Please keep this thread focused on it's original topic, and it's intended aim of giving helpful advice to each other, which is an incredibly useful resource for players.
2014 holdouts are not a revenue generating market segment.
Personally I was providing them revenue for 2014 content until they made it so that I cannot buy the subclass I want and the spells it uses cause they are packaged with a book full of stuff I would never need.
In the end they ended up not making me buy an entire book and I ended up setting up the subclass and spells manually via the homebrew. If a no sale is something they prefer from a partial sale then it is something that I would need explained by someone who knows sale related stuff better
PS: I do not mind if I am proven wrong, but I think that the 2024 edition will the the new 4th edition that people pass based on how much displeasure I hear it generated.
I'm going to make the prediction that ala carte will return eventually. I think it was temporarily taken away to make sure that they sold/pre-sold as many copies of the new rulebooks as possible. People would've been a lot more reluctant to make those purchases if they knew they could just ala carte them after they came out. Business psychology. Will it work out for them? Time will tell, but I think in about a year (or less) we'll see them bring back individual purchases all the while selling it as a "See? We listen to our customers!" kind of ballyhoo.
We'll see.
If customers are reluctant to buy DnD books due to ala cart purchases, or even complete the purchase by paying the remainder after the initial ala cart purchases are made (since quite a few imply they don't want more then 10-20% of a book) then there is no incentive for a company to bring it back. Doubt it will come back.
I agree, as much as people complain, i personally dont think that enough people did ala carte to make it worth the time and effort to keep programming. A companies purpose is to make money. everything they do needs to nring in a ceartian amount of profit, if it doesnt they will cut it.
But if those customers all cancel their subscriptions...
BTW, every digital sale, after R&D money is recouped, is 100% profit. So 100% of $30 is $30 and 100% of $2 is $2, and 100% of $0 is $0
I think you forget about server costs and maintenance even if using cloud services. You also need to maintain ISO 27001:2022 certifications for cybersecurity. You need to maintain the tech which means continuous patching. They probably need to comply with GDPR and personal data security since this is offered in the EU. They also need to have staff to add new content and debug existing content.
I think you forget about server costs and maintenance even if using cloud services. You also need to maintain ISO 27001:2022 certifications for cybersecurity. You need to maintain the tech which means continuous patching. They probably need to comply with GDPR and personal data security since this is offered in the EU. They also need to have staff to add new content and debug existing content.
This is not 100% profit on digital sales.
Even so, this is still the case whether or not they kept ALC. So they could have just kept it. Once again, the reality is we have no real idea why they got rid of ALC. We can only go by their awful track record to speculate as to why.
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No implication, straight up accusation of dishonesty considering they ( Wizbro )knew at the start of the year the end of a-la-carte was going to be discontinued.
A heads up to the general community could have been made at the beginning of the year and allowed a final push of sales. But, no they didn’t give any type of formal announcement until after the fact.
And it took several days for the administration to actually make an announcement that former alc purchases would still be credited, but never truly gave a timeline of cut-off.
And the cutting off of alc could have been moved to later, just before the release of the 2024 material. It was piss poorly handled and it cost the company more than they realized. It could have been handled far better, but as typical of the company since they acquired the site, it’s been all about squeezing the community out of money and not caring about the good-will of said community.
At this point returning ALC is the stupidest move they can make, because it would have no effect on returning community members to the site, and would be far too late to keep any sane person from supporting a company that insists on disrespecting and disregarding its customers.
Everyone who has posted about this knows Wizbro only cares about profits and not people, because if they did, they would have never acted the way they did.
So defend the company all you want, fact is Wizbro burned themselves and they have zero respect or regard for the people that supported them, and only gives a care about how much money they can stuff in their own pockets. A far better solution is to actually be honest with the community, and quit being so sensitive to the backlash that occurs when Wizbro does stupid things without informing the general masses.
And as a company that wants to go full digital, they had best learn to open their mouths before rather than after the fact, because only informing the community about changes after the fact will only cause more distrust in their management and products and the under-monetization problem they have will only get worse.
I expect Wizbro to do better, not continue to make stupid decisions that are going to hurt the community and in effect hurt their bottom line.
" Darkvision doesn’t work in Magical darkness, and if something is magical, Never Trust it acts the same way as a non-magical version of that same thing!”- Discotech Mage over a cup of joe.
Like the O’ Jays once said: “For the Love of Money”. It all started when they attempted to recend the OGL due to under-monetized segment of the brand and when half the community stopped sending money, aka subscriptions dropped, backup of the service ticket system that drove requests to a 4 week waiting period, the A-la-carte fiasco coupled with the almost immediate rules swap that is being implemented in stages as to not draw attention to the fact that by march most of 2014 5E will have been effectively limited to just the compendium material only, like Wizbro said was going to happen no matter what, and after all that, barely a fraction of the former community is using the site, many are watching the meltdown of the site and subsidiary of WotC, and no longer recommending DDBeyond for D&D.
For the Love of Money! Yet if they had announced at the start of the year a-la-carte was going to be discontinued in say July, then they could have made a buck, but again they didn’t care, and the community suffered for it.
" Darkvision doesn’t work in Magical darkness, and if something is magical, Never Trust it acts the same way as a non-magical version of that same thing!”- Discotech Mage over a cup of joe.
Meanwhile, the site's signups have continued and the growth of the site continues, rather directly contradicting statements about "barely a fraction".
Over a million since this thread started. If just 1% of them ended up getting an account, that entire argument is spurious.
And that's just since the a la carte was ended. While some go to a lot of trouble to make it seem like those things all happened in a short period of time instead of over a year (and damn near a year and half), describing something that happened six months after a different one as "almost immediately" is flat out dishonesty and intentional, willful deception with malice.
Not that it is surprising, given the posting history; there are several people who's only reason to be here in the DDB forums is to bad mouth the company that has the absolute right -- without even touching the right to freedom of speech -- to kick anyone who does so out of the forums.
Yet they generally aren't upset they haven't done that yet, even though it would be 100% in line with what has been suggested they would do. In fact, some outside said they have been kicked out and how it is a violation of the freedom of speech, and other rather blunt lies (told outside this forum) of a similar nature, done with malice and a desire to deceive.
Hmm.
Strange that someone who gains only one true benefit from the site -- the searchable listing in an app -- notices this and points it out. Must be the benefit of that classical education, I suppose.
In any case, I still note that the amount of sudden goalpost moving -- that is, the statement that X is a problem until something pops up that says X isn't a problem, and then now we have a statement about how G is a problem, it was never really X in the first place" and so forth and so on is, well, disingenuous and in keeing witht hat already established pattern of dishonesty and malicious deception.
Which strikes me as unethical, likely immoral, and notably disinterested in actual solutions or any real truths, as well as lacking serious and significant consideration of the actual problem. WHich, really, they don't do because they typically avoid addressing the actual problem, and instead address things unrelated to it except tangentially, like the ending of a la carte sales.
It is the uninformed and emotional expulsion derived from a deep seated sense of entitlement that drives this, but, ultimately achieves nothing and harms the ultimate cause of those who engage in this malicious effort. Because it is an attack on something popular, and if nothing else can be said, when you do that to a bunch of folks who ae generally described as nerds, geeks, and freaks, well...
That just makes them more protective and more devoted. And once they realize that it is all done dishonestly, deceptively, unethically, and without real thought or consideration
So, given that, perhaps it makes a great deal of sense for the very people being attacked to allow them to remain and do that kind of thing.
as for me, I will note that my previous statement of which one small part was quoted is a statement that may well be wrong. I do not expect it to be so, but there is always that chance. However, it is based and drawn from truth and consideration of the subject, not as a narrow "i want this for me" thing, but as a broader element in a larger plan.
Because I give a damn about this. And since I give a damn about it, I strive to be honest, ethical, and to act with benefice. WHich is likely a better reason than a classical education.
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Funny how when WotC took over the site, the ability to accurately track the number of accounts active has long since been broken. ( and yes it is broken, it only displays the number of accounts created, not how many are actually active, for that you can sometimes get a decent number from watching how many are members and how many are guest. ) if the same group of users, including moderators, admin, and a dozen others that are content creators are the only ones consistently logging in, thats one thing, but when asked how many users there really is, and I bet all creation we would never get a true and accurate account of the actual number of valid accounts active, accounts banned, accounts cancelled, and accounts of the daily , weekly, monthly, and quarterly accounts created and accounts lost.
Others wish to believe a company is responsible, others believe that company is full of (———-). Nothing Wizbro has done since buying this site has been worth the time or money to spend on. They knew when they couldn’t get the OGL recended and subs dropped, they screwed up majorly, and yet did the bare minimum to quickly and quietly bury any and all criticism and blah, blah, blah….
What gets me is why they proved they don’t care about anything other than money by just flat out saying nothing about ending ALC, locking out the former founders of the site till after they changed the marketplace, would have said nothing about the change if not for those who were paying attention at the time, and continued attitude of well if people don’t care, why are you complaining?
If a-la-carte hadn’t been abruptly and unknowingly been cut without notice thereof before they did it, this thread would not exist, so with all due respect, if users want to give feedback on this, here it is they F’ed the site up so much, I personally think it’s getting really hard to continue with it’s usefulness.
If they haven’t already restored alc by now, it will be back in the new VTT that is going to be the next EA sports lootboxes and subscriptions to use anything.
You and this site only care about users that spend hundreds of dollars on something that you can’t even own, or even get a tangible digital product that doesn’t rely on an internet connection.
For a multibillion dollar company, they certainly don’t care to spread a bit of good fortune to make this the best D&D source in all the digital realm, but as of late they have only proven that they have no idea what the F’ they are doing. Don’t like someone who tells it straight, then tough luck i have as much the right to provide fair and honest feedback about elements of this site.
" Darkvision doesn’t work in Magical darkness, and if something is magical, Never Trust it acts the same way as a non-magical version of that same thing!”- Discotech Mage over a cup of joe.
Oh and the ogl happened end of 22, ended February of 23 ( before movie was released), and dropped ALC in may of 24, 4 months before the Master Tier Subscription release of the 24 rules. So yes, in very short order, Wizbro has been doing a road map that practically guarantees the future of D&D is in the very wrong hands, hands that are in it for the money, and not for anything else.
" Darkvision doesn’t work in Magical darkness, and if something is magical, Never Trust it acts the same way as a non-magical version of that same thing!”- Discotech Mage over a cup of joe.
Oh you are correct. Which is why I said getting rid of ALC was not the entire problem. It's HOW they did it which threw them into bad graces with the public, fanning a flame that should not have been this big. Seriously, it would have been simple:
"Hello everyone, we want to make an announcement! Unfortunately, in the near future, we are removing the option for A La Carte purchases. As much as we have tried, the much-beloved A La Carte purchases are turning out to be unprofitable by ways we cannot publicly share. We are very well aware that this is a beloved part of DnDBeyond and it breaks our hearts to see it go. We are looking into alternative methods to give our amazing fans what they want in the future after the new edition of Dungeons & Dragons has come out! Until then, we appreciate your understanding.
Sincerely,
-The Dungeons & Dragons team"
There, that's it. Done. Sure there are still some people who would still be mad, can't make everyone happy, but more would understand. Like you said, they are trying to make money. So if the practice wasn't making money, then it makes sense to get rid of it. That isn't the reality though - we were never given the reason, so we are left to speculate. Said speculation needs to include WotC's track record. Said track record is horrendous. So it leads to suspecting a horrendous result. Again. Thus "Disgusting greed".
Seriously, if anyone complains about money, stop, they are in no position to pay for D&D. Feeding the business and employees is not their responsibility, especially when there are customers who would gladly do so. D&D is free; ask your D&D community for help. Physical books can be borrowed, digital tools can also be freely shared, and both are legal.
Removing à la carte purchases is stupid in my opinion. However, D&D is still free, so stop acting like it is not.
Businesses sometimes focus on higher paying customers because they are generally easier to deal with. Compendium and database content are downloadable as webpages for offline use.
There is also the alternative of just staying on Beyond and asking the community for help to access paid content. Beyond is free. No one has to leave Beyond over money issues.
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Don’t need help with the content or need to bother others with accessing paid content, more than willing to do the actual hard work of making the homebrew needed.
But when a lot of that hard work is going to be flushed down the toilet because the company that provides the ability to do it finds it unprofitable, and starts to disrupt and ruin the ability to effectively utilize the services that many others might otherwise not use because of financial constraints, what’s the solution? Beg others for temporary access to elements they have, and hope you don’t piss them off?
[Redacted]
A la carte was killed off because lesser and lesser content was being developed for it. because the company was not making as much as pushing the whole of the content and the piecemeal purchases were probably preventing them from getting more money from wholesale content distribution.
[Redacted]
I’ve spent more time and effort in actually learning and utilizing the the previous free material, and data entering the needed information, then spending good hard earned money on piss poor quality and unsupported elements of material that is mostly useless to the services.
A la carte was the best and fastest way for players and DM’s to get better involved in the hobby, and because it wasn’t raking in tons of money, it was chopped down all so the company could profit more.
And now with ever increasing prospect that the former services and content that were being offered are going to be replaced, and still the company is unlikely and possibly unwilling to openly discuss the changes that will be made, well if the company fails it the companies own fault for it, not the community.
[Redacted]
A la carte is DEAD, and nothing Wizbro can do from this point forward, is ever going to change or even make up for the disrespect that has been the motivation of the company.
And btw, how long before free becomes another under-monetized problem for the company, and the decision to no longer offer free services is discontinued without any word or reason from the company? Like a la carte service was discontinued without any reason or real explanation?
" Darkvision doesn’t work in Magical darkness, and if something is magical, Never Trust it acts the same way as a non-magical version of that same thing!”- Discotech Mage over a cup of joe.
If only we had actually gotten that type of statement from the beginning, but nope a la carte was killed with barely a whimper.
How’s the saying go: “better to ask for forgiveness than to seek permission”, well both forgiveness and permission DENIED.
" Darkvision doesn’t work in Magical darkness, and if something is magical, Never Trust it acts the same way as a non-magical version of that same thing!”- Discotech Mage over a cup of joe.
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ModeratorA reminder of the rules for folks:
This thread started to give advice on how to get you discounts from previous à la carte purchases, and naturally people voicing their opinions on the removal of à la carte purchasing.
It is more than fine to do that. You can be critical of that choice, you can give feedback and state your opinions, negative or positive.
You may not start attacking each other or each other's logic. Nor derail the conversation with long tangents on other topics. Please keep this thread focused on it's original topic, and it's intended aim of giving helpful advice to each other, which is an incredibly useful resource for players.
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Personally I was providing them revenue for 2014 content until they made it so that I cannot buy the subclass I want and the spells it uses cause they are packaged with a book full of stuff I would never need.
In the end they ended up not making me buy an entire book and I ended up setting up the subclass and spells manually via the homebrew. If a no sale is something they prefer from a partial sale then it is something that I would need explained by someone who knows sale related stuff better
PS: I do not mind if I am proven wrong, but I think that the 2024 edition will the the new 4th edition that people pass based on how much displeasure I hear it generated.
I think you forget about server costs and maintenance even if using cloud services. You also need to maintain ISO 27001:2022 certifications for cybersecurity. You need to maintain the tech which means continuous patching. They probably need to comply with GDPR and personal data security since this is offered in the EU. They also need to have staff to add new content and debug existing content.
This is not 100% profit on digital sales.
Even so, this is still the case whether or not they kept ALC. So they could have just kept it. Once again, the reality is we have no real idea why they got rid of ALC. We can only go by their awful track record to speculate as to why.