I don't know for sure but I'd like to see a show of hands from all the GMs that have posted on this thread.
Even though many have argued that the command to teleport or obey would not work at all, the OP wants it to work and has settled upon GMs choice.
I would NOT as the command spell would fail right at the teleport command. If the target cannot teleport, the spell fails. It has nothing to do with what will happen later or whether the target knows somebody can teleport it. If it can't do it, the spell fails.
How many of you would allow this chain of events to happen as the OP wants?
I don't believe anyone other than the OP has fully accepted this tactic from any stand point other than GM Fiat. While I myself accept it on GM Fiat, that's just in general concept. No arguments made here would convince me to support this tactic as it was presented by "RAW mechanics" or GM Fiat as a player or a DM.
As for "teleport" I've accepted the GM has to approve it, that's RAW (it's not a pre-interpreted command). Nothing I have seen has convinced me that target can't be willing to be teleported, doesn't know that Thunder Step teleports when told (as I've stated), nor that going 180 feet in the air with it isn't directly harmful when they don't know the destination. One good counter argument I've seen is that they have another means of teleportation, which makes sense. When someone is commanded "teleport" they're gonna try to teleport by whatever means is available.
One good counter argument I've seen is that they have another means of t
I'm not reading anybody in your corner. All of the GMs said no, and everybody else said leave it up to the GM.
Repost in the DM Only forum and see what happens. It is possible that some GMs aren't seeing this so post it there. That might give you some insight as to whether your GM will let you do it.
Or better yet, post it in Rules and Mechanics. Those folk are very helpful.
One good counter argument I've seen is that they have another means of t
I'm not reading anybody in your corner. All of the GMs said no, and everybody else said leave it up to the GM.
Repost in the DM Only forum and see what happens. It is possible that some GMs aren't seeing this so post it there. That might give you some insight as to whether your GM will let you do it.
Or better yet, post it in Rules and Mechanics. Those folk are very helpful.
Are you saying you're refusing to or that none exist in this forum? There's some that have already agreed with this working, so I's assuming you're refusing. Go read back on this post if you disagree some have agreed that this works.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Command is the most powerful level 1 spell; change my mind.
The target has some discretion, but at the same time there are some conditions. Flee says "moves away from you with its fastest available means". So if I have a viable option to run away in one direction that has no enemies, versus another that does, the enemy has a choice in which way they go. My personal interpretation would be about distance. The enemy has to make a decision in which way moves them the farthest from the caster of Command, but then can move in its safest way possible. Any command is subject to DM interpretation, but for a flying enemy, halt would just mean they stay in place. The consideration here would be Prone, a flying enemy wouldn't comply with this, as the fall would cause damage.
Doesn't that include an assumption that the enemies are no obstruction? That they would not slow you at all? When I am running through a crowd, I look for openings. I do not run straight line into groups of people that I could avoid.
It would be like insisting that running as fast as possible directly into a wall is running away faster than running as fast as possible around the wall, even though one might slow marginally to shift momentum around it.
This isn't how D&D combat works. Enemies are totally an obstruction, as you can't move through their squares unless you have some ability that lets you do it. I also didn't make that second assumption either. The point isn't to take this to extremes to prove a point. The point is logical assumptions.
Are you saying you're refusing to or that none exist in this forum? There's some that have already agreed with this working, so I's assuming you're refusing. Go read back on this post if you disagree some have agreed that this works.
Really? I'll admit to being surprised. I could totally have missed it. Could you please point me to the post #
If you read post #100 that is me emphatically saying it would NOT work in my game.
Again, post in Rules and Game Mechanics and Dungeon Masters Only. See what they say.
Are you saying you're refusing to or that none exist in this forum? There's some that have already agreed with this working, so I's assuming you're refusing. Go read back on this post if you disagree some have agreed that this works.
Really? I'll admit to being surprised. I could totally have missed it. Could you please point me to the post #
If you read post #100 that is me emphatically saying it would NOT work in my game.
Again, post in Rules and Game Mechanics and Dungeon Masters Only. See what they say.
You can find it, as I've said.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Command is the most powerful level 1 spell; change my mind.
Oh well, my apologies, one person agreed with you.
I've seen 2 people that posted that they supported the idea but, they didn't bother to support any mechanics behind your idea. Almost everyone has said that IF a DM allowed it, it wouldn't be the end of the world. That doesn't exactly equate into a full fledged endorsement if you can't even be bothered to help defend the concept.
I endorse the overall idea. It's creative. It's effective. It's teamwork.
What it's not is mechanically defensible without too many unwarranted allowances, for many reasons. I believe it's possible there is a way to do it according to RAW, no DM Fiat required. This particular method doesn't appear to be the way.
Oh well, my apologies, one person agreed with you.
I've seen 2 people that posted that they supported the idea but, they didn't bother to support any mechanics behind your idea. Almost everyone has said that IF a DM allowed it, it wouldn't be the end of the world. That doesn't exactly equate into a full fledged endorsement if you can't even be bothered to help defend the concept.
I endorse the overall idea. It's creative. It's effective. It's teamwork.
What it's not is mechanically defensible without too many unwarranted allowances, for many reasons. I believe it's possible there is a way to do it according to RAW, no DM Fiat required. This particular method doesn't appear to be the way.
Charm Person + Thunder Step by the same person (who could then cast Feather Fall as a reaction themselves) would work (Charm Person would make someone you ask to trust you do so, at least if they see you as a friendly acquaintance offering to get them out of the violent situation they're in, which should be enough to make them a willing target for Thunder Step), but assuming no ridiculous items or a 2-level dip in Fighter that's a 2-round process and it requires Charm Person to succeed in presumably a combat situation and then not get dispelled by breaking concentration before getting the Thunder Step off. It certainly can be done following the RAW, but I don't think it can be done in a convenient and effective way, barring circumstances that make dropping the target somewhere more useful than just the falling damage.
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Want to start playing but don't have anyone to play with? You can try these options: [link].
You aren't meeting one of the OP's requirements. Must be effective while in combat, Charm Person is significantly lessened when a target gets advantage to save while in combat with then casters. It's harder than it seems to come up with a working alrenative.
You aren't meeting one of the OP's requirements. Must be effective while in combat, Charm Person is significantly lessened when a target gets advantage to save while in combat with then casters. It's harder than it seems to come up with a working alrenative.
It *is* effective in combat - just less reliable. Which is why I said I don't think it can be done in a convenient and effective way.
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Want to start playing but don't have anyone to play with? You can try these options: [link].
You aren't meeting one of the OP's requirements. Must be effective while in combat, Charm Person is significantly lessened when a target gets advantage to save while in combat with then casters. It's harder than it seems to come up with a working alrenative.
Dominate, then. However, 'must be effective in combat,' to me is the OP insisting on being lazy and wanting ideal, not merely effective.
Dominate Person is a 5th level spell. Using a 5th level spell in order to be able to cause falling damage with Thunder Step is probably not very efficient. 18d6 damage with multiple spell slots and a sorcerer point by character level 9 is nothing special.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Want to start playing but don't have anyone to play with? You can try these options: [link].
You aren't meeting one of the OP's requirements. Must be effective while in combat, Charm Person is significantly lessened when a target gets advantage to save while in combat with then casters. It's harder than it seems to come up with a working alrenative.
Dominate, then. However, 'must be effective in combat,' to me is the OP insisting on being lazy and wanting ideal, not merely effective.
Edit: Note the restriction was not actually there in their OP. And the entire thread they have been arguing that their marvelous idea should work. The 'in combat' restriction was only added much later in the thread as a reason alternatives were not acceptable, as if that should make it more ok or more 'RAW' for their idea to work.
I was simply pointing out that these other options have already been suggested, much earlier in this thread, and also rejected for various reasons. ;p
You aren't meeting one of the OP's requirements. Must be effective while in combat, Charm Person is significantly lessened when a target gets advantage to save while in combat with then casters. It's harder than it seems to come up with a working alrenative.
Dominate, then. However, 'must be effective in combat,' to me is the OP insisting on being lazy and wanting ideal, not merely effective.
Dominate Person is a 5th level spell. Using a 5th level spell in order to be able to cause falling damage with Thunder Step is probably not very efficient. 18d6 damage with multiple spell slots and a sorcerer point by character level 9 is nothing special.
But it will work where Command will not.
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"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
You aren't meeting one of the OP's requirements. Must be effective while in combat, Charm Person is significantly lessened when a target gets advantage to save while in combat with then casters. It's harder than it seems to come up with a working alrenative.
Dominate, then. However, 'must be effective in combat,' to me is the OP insisting on being lazy and wanting ideal, not merely effective.
Dominate Person is a 5th level spell. Using a 5th level spell in order to be able to cause falling damage with Thunder Step is probably not very efficient. 18d6 damage with multiple spell slots and a sorcerer point by character level 9 is nothing special.
But it will work where Command will not.
Sure. Just saying, why bother? By level 9 most opponents are unlikely to die from 18d6, and that Dominate Person can be used to keep them out of the fight for up to a minute or maybe even make them do something that removes them from the encounter altogether. And in comparison a rogue with a bog standard nonmagical rapier probably does 1d8+5d6+4/5 by then, which is close to 8d6, per activation without expending any limited resources. More if they have a magical weapon or other means of improving their damage. 18d6 with two activations, two spell slots and a sorcerer point is nothing special by then.
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Want to start playing but don't have anyone to play with? You can try these options: [link].
What about using something like Silent Image to create a sign saying "Free candy on the moon." When the NPC approaches, the Thunder Step PC says, "I can take you there, if you like?"
Foolproof.
I don't know. Momma said don't trust strangers unless they have a good command word.
Also, directly harmful: diabetes and no oxygen.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Command is the most powerful level 1 spell; change my mind.
The target has some discretion, but at the same time there are some conditions. Flee says "moves away from you with its fastest available means". So if I have a viable option to run away in one direction that has no enemies, versus another that does, the enemy has a choice in which way they go. My personal interpretation would be about distance. The enemy has to make a decision in which way moves them the farthest from the caster of Command, but then can move in its safest way possible. Any command is subject to DM interpretation, but for a flying enemy, halt would just mean they stay in place. The consideration here would be Prone, a flying enemy wouldn't comply with this, as the fall would cause damage.
Doesn't that include an assumption that the enemies are no obstruction? That they would not slow you at all? When I am running through a crowd, I look for openings. I do not run straight line into groups of people that I could avoid.
It would be like insisting that running as fast as possible directly into a wall is running away faster than running as fast as possible around the wall, even though one might slow marginally to shift momentum around it.
This isn't how D&D combat works. Enemies are totally an obstruction, as you can't move through their squares unless you have some ability that lets you do it. I also didn't make that second assumption either. The point isn't to take this to extremes to prove a point. The point is logical assumptions.
And to me, the logical assumption would be to avoid obstacles that could reasonably slow you down. Even above and beyond not running literally into them, which as you say is 'impossible' (which is not strictly true, since you can enter someone else's square to grapple or restrain, etc), going close enough to them that they can slow you is something you can avoid. Even if they did not actively try to slow you, it is reasonable to assume they might move in your way accidentally if you are running fast enough and too close.
Right, but you keep bringing the real world into it. This isn't the real world. It's a fantasy world governed by rules and mechanics. Flee states "moves away from you by the fastest available means", and they spend their turn doing it. This leaves LOTS of wiggle room. if I use flee on a spellcaster with Misty Step, there's an argument to make they'd use Misty Step in addition to their movement to get out. The same could be true of any other movement spell, such as Fly, Dimension Door, Thunder Step or even Teleport.
We're both arguing the same point, you're just bringing up lots of different ifs buts and what ifs. The commanded character has some agency in terms of movement, and the GM has final discretion on what it does. The only true end game is that they have to make a concerned effort to move as far as possible, as fast as possible. That's it.
I added a note on my original post for everyone wanting to suggest Dominate Person. To summarize it: character level is 5. Spell level is not at 5th level.
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Command is the most powerful level 1 spell; change my mind.
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As for "teleport" I've accepted the GM has to approve it, that's RAW (it's not a pre-interpreted command). Nothing I have seen has convinced me that target can't be willing to be teleported, doesn't know that Thunder Step teleports when told (as I've stated), nor that going 180 feet in the air with it isn't directly harmful when they don't know the destination. One good counter argument I've seen is that they have another means of teleportation, which makes sense. When someone is commanded "teleport" they're gonna try to teleport by whatever means is available.
Command is the most powerful level 1 spell; change my mind.
I'm not reading anybody in your corner. All of the GMs said no, and everybody else said leave it up to the GM.
Repost in the DM Only forum and see what happens. It is possible that some GMs aren't seeing this so post it there. That might give you some insight as to whether your GM will let you do it.
Or better yet, post it in Rules and Mechanics. Those folk are very helpful.
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
-Ilyara Thundertale
Are you saying you're refusing to or that none exist in this forum? There's some that have already agreed with this working, so I's assuming you're refusing. Go read back on this post if you disagree some have agreed that this works.
Command is the most powerful level 1 spell; change my mind.
This isn't how D&D combat works. Enemies are totally an obstruction, as you can't move through their squares unless you have some ability that lets you do it. I also didn't make that second assumption either. The point isn't to take this to extremes to prove a point. The point is logical assumptions.
Really? I'll admit to being surprised. I could totally have missed it. Could you please point me to the post #
If you read post #100 that is me emphatically saying it would NOT work in my game.
Again, post in Rules and Game Mechanics and Dungeon Masters Only. See what they say.
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
-Ilyara Thundertale
You can find it, as I've said.
Command is the most powerful level 1 spell; change my mind.
Oh well, my apologies, one person agreed with you.
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
-Ilyara Thundertale
I've seen 2 people that posted that they supported the idea but, they didn't bother to support any mechanics behind your idea. Almost everyone has said that IF a DM allowed it, it wouldn't be the end of the world. That doesn't exactly equate into a full fledged endorsement if you can't even be bothered to help defend the concept.
I endorse the overall idea. It's creative. It's effective. It's teamwork.
What it's not is mechanically defensible without too many unwarranted allowances, for many reasons. I believe it's possible there is a way to do it according to RAW, no DM Fiat required. This particular method doesn't appear to be the way.
Charm Person + Thunder Step by the same person (who could then cast Feather Fall as a reaction themselves) would work (Charm Person would make someone you ask to trust you do so, at least if they see you as a friendly acquaintance offering to get them out of the violent situation they're in, which should be enough to make them a willing target for Thunder Step), but assuming no ridiculous items or a 2-level dip in Fighter that's a 2-round process and it requires Charm Person to succeed in presumably a combat situation and then not get dispelled by breaking concentration before getting the Thunder Step off. It certainly can be done following the RAW, but I don't think it can be done in a convenient and effective way, barring circumstances that make dropping the target somewhere more useful than just the falling damage.
Want to start playing but don't have anyone to play with? You can try these options: [link].
You aren't meeting one of the OP's requirements. Must be effective while in combat, Charm Person is significantly lessened when a target gets advantage to save while in combat with then casters. It's harder than it seems to come up with a working alrenative.
It *is* effective in combat - just less reliable. Which is why I said I don't think it can be done in a convenient and effective way.
Want to start playing but don't have anyone to play with? You can try these options: [link].
"I'm thinking "teleport" is the best option right now."
Unless the person you are talking to has the ability to teleport themselves, they just stand there, and if they do, they get to decide where.
<Insert clever signature here>
Dominate Person is a 5th level spell. Using a 5th level spell in order to be able to cause falling damage with Thunder Step is probably not very efficient. 18d6 damage with multiple spell slots and a sorcerer point by character level 9 is nothing special.
Want to start playing but don't have anyone to play with? You can try these options: [link].
I was simply pointing out that these other options have already been suggested, much earlier in this thread, and also rejected for various reasons. ;p
Late to the party, please bother to read what others have said before. It's the least you can do.
But it will work where Command will not.
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
-Ilyara Thundertale
Sure. Just saying, why bother? By level 9 most opponents are unlikely to die from 18d6, and that Dominate Person can be used to keep them out of the fight for up to a minute or maybe even make them do something that removes them from the encounter altogether. And in comparison a rogue with a bog standard nonmagical rapier probably does 1d8+5d6+4/5 by then, which is close to 8d6, per activation without expending any limited resources. More if they have a magical weapon or other means of improving their damage. 18d6 with two activations, two spell slots and a sorcerer point is nothing special by then.
Want to start playing but don't have anyone to play with? You can try these options: [link].
I don't know. Momma said don't trust strangers unless they have a good command word.
Also, directly harmful: diabetes and no oxygen.
Command is the most powerful level 1 spell; change my mind.
Right, but you keep bringing the real world into it. This isn't the real world. It's a fantasy world governed by rules and mechanics. Flee states "moves away from you by the fastest available means", and they spend their turn doing it. This leaves LOTS of wiggle room. if I use flee on a spellcaster with Misty Step, there's an argument to make they'd use Misty Step in addition to their movement to get out. The same could be true of any other movement spell, such as Fly, Dimension Door, Thunder Step or even Teleport.
We're both arguing the same point, you're just bringing up lots of different ifs buts and what ifs. The commanded character has some agency in terms of movement, and the GM has final discretion on what it does. The only true end game is that they have to make a concerned effort to move as far as possible, as fast as possible. That's it.
I added a note on my original post for everyone wanting to suggest Dominate Person. To summarize it: character level is 5. Spell level is not at 5th level.
Command is the most powerful level 1 spell; change my mind.