No, my idea of fun is not to ruin it for everyone else, but if several is ruining the fun for me, then i make sure to return the favor. and that is generelly what happened.
i was not the one arguing with DM over minor things, the leonin was. i was not the one cheating, leonin was i was not the one metagaming, leonin was i was not the one trying to control other players during those players turns, leonin was
We said on several occasions that he should not do this and we told DM to tell him so also, but there was no improvements.
I was merely trying to teach him a lesson, because DM didnt seem to be able to. so yeah, probably i was a bad player but there was a reason for it.
You are correct, and as one of the other players, they taught you to be a bad player. That's your problem. You tried to jack around a problem player, and the DM admitted that they were a problem, who was only tolerated because they were a friend. It is clear that you and the DM were not friends. Why would you expect them to tolerate you? Messing with any other player character in a negative way is PvP. even if you're a Thief. Many DMs do not allow it. That was the rule, you violated in the first place. Apparently you consider yourself better than both the DM and his friend the Leonin.
Try running your own games if you're so great as all that.
I’d have kicked you out, too. Honestly, I probably wouldn’t have let you play a CN character — that’s usually code for “I plan to be disruptive.”
Doing what you want in a game doesn’t mean you can be a jerk to other players. That’s a baseline that shouldn’t even have to come up in a session 0. It’s just not the way people treat other people in society.
And if you did start acting like that, and just try to say it’s “in character” why would the rest of the party “in character”continue to adventure with your character. Their characters’ most reasonable action would have been to kick your character out of the party. Or at least for that tank to start charging you body parts every time they stopped an enemy from running back to get to you. It’s a team game, and you were not being a team player.
Does it matter wether i am a friend to the DM or not? All players should play under the same equal terms and that was not the case here. Giving benefits to someone just because they know that person irl is bad.
I dont claim myself to be a better player or DM for that matter. But i am running my own game with some of the people from that group including the DM. And i believe most of them find it interesting to play with me as DM. That’s what they told when i asked for feedback.
I was not really messing with other players direct PvP, I stopped that when DM first told me not to. But i did try to frame a player for murder, which means i gave DM something to play out any way he wanted to. If he really wanted to; he could have had a witness see me to put me in that bad situation instead. It became all under DM’s discreation, but either he couldnt plan the game around it or he just didnt want to. Whatever that could have happened from there would be on DM’s behalf.
If similar thing would happen in my campaign, i would have had it run its course. See what happens and let them try to break him out of prison or let the person escape using a few DC checks and then make them a shorter quest to prove his innocense or something like that.
As a general rule, D&D is a "team sport." That's why a party has members with different skillsets, so they can work together to overcome all sorts of challenges. Killing a child and framing a party-mate is the opposite of being a team player. You played as a dick. As a general rule, most people don't like *****. You shouldn't be surprised when you get hostile reactions for being a dick. After all, you say you like the fact that actions have consequences. Consider it meta-game level stuff that "If you're a dick, you will not be welcome in most groups."
So if i understand you correctly. A thief should not steal? Isnt that the same as saying a fighter shouldnt fight?
i mean, one doesnt have to do it all the time at every given time. But i think one could be excused to do as the character would do once in a while.
I mean as a thief don't steal from the party. A fighter doesn't fight with a party, so why would a thief steal from the party? You can try to steal from (insert bad guy here) and that's fine. Just don't piss off the party or the DM. "It's what my character would do" as an excuse for a bad action basically means that you made a character that is not a good character to make.
I was merely trying to teach him a lesson, because DM didnt seem to be able to.
This is not your place, as a player.
If you feel like something is wrong, you can talk to the DM. If the DM does not agree, you can either put up with it or leave the game.
It is not OK for you to start "policing" the other players or second-guessing the calls of the DM. You either accept the DM's calls, or leave the game.
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WOTC lies. We know that WOTC lies. WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. We know that WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. And still they lie.
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"But i did try to frame a player for murder" That is Player versus Player, maybe you don't think of it that way, but indirect or not, you used your own character to do something bad to someone else's character. The term Player Character includes the word "player" in it. You say the DM didn't choose to react to it. Must be a very nice guy, because I'd have kicked you out of my game right then. The DM is under no obligation to allow you to create sub-plots, so the whole thing that you say you do in your own game, by letting someone frame someone else for murder, doesn't have to fly with them in theirs. Again, they were being nice, and chose not to punish you by throwing you in jail. I doubt the other players would bother breaking you out, so that's probably for the best.
You said that it's wrong to favor someone else because you are a friend of theirs in real life. This is true. The DM knew that and was trying to work around it, you decided to intervene because you decided the DM was taking too long. If you want to think of yourself and the DM as being friendly, let alone being actual friends, jacking them around isn't a friendly thing to do, and nobody I know treats a friend that way on purpose. I give my friends a hard time a lot, I make jokes, I pick on them about their wording sometimes. It's all meant to be fun. I don't go out and do something they specifically told me they didn't want me to do.
Apparently, not only are you a bad player, you are also childish. You have come to the forums to tell everyone how you were terribly mistreated and you won't listen when every single other post has said you were in the wrong. You're doing the equivalent of throwing a temper tantrum. Your latest post is also something a child does. "I'm not going to repeat myself." You want us to take the trouble to go back and read the whole thread over again instead of explaining yourself adequately. Next up, you will probably take your ball away, and nobody gets to play anymore. We aren't in Southpark. You shouldn't be acting like Cartmen.
When I first read this thread, I thought: Oh, this person is trying to learn from their mistakes, good for them. But as it’s progressed, it seems that was not the case at all. Instead, it seems like they thought they were wronged, and are looking for others to agree they were wronged.They have a unanimous chorus of people saying: no, they were not wronged, they were in the wrong. And then they keep grasping at ways to show they were actually correct in their behavior, but nothing has changed anyone’s opinion.
Maybe instead of arguing, accept the constructive criticism and try to learn from the experience.
Does it matter wether i am a friend to the DM or not? All players should play under the same equal terms and that was not the case here. Giving benefits to someone just because they know that person irl is bad.
I dont claim myself to be a better player or DM for that matter. But i am running my own game with some of the people from that group including the DM. And i believe most of them find it interesting to play with me as DM. That’s what they told when i asked for feedback.
I was not really messing with other players direct PvP, I stopped that when DM first told me not to. But i did try to frame a player for murder, which means i gave DM something to play out any way he wanted to. If he really wanted to; he could have had a witness see me to put me in that bad situation instead. It became all under DM’s discreation, but either he couldnt plan the game around it or he just didnt want to. Whatever that could have happened from there would be on DM’s behalf.
If similar thing would happen in my campaign, i would have had it run its course. See what happens and let them try to break him out of prison or let the person escape using a few DC checks and then make them a shorter quest to prove his innocense or something like that.
"They started it" as an excuse should be left in kindergarten, and trying to manipulate your DM is not the right answer to anything.
What's more, in light of all the above, why bring up "it's what my character would do and players should be able to do what they want as long as they accept the consequences" as your justification first? You trying to teach another player (and your DM for not dealing with that player) a lesson is something else entirely.
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You said there didn’t seem to be a plot so you did some things because you were bored. I can understand that. And some DM’s might be skillful enough to take those actions and tie them into the story or seize on it and create plot hooks. But keep in mind that maybe the DM had these side quests for a reason, maybe to set up the main plot for the campaign. Or maybe that was just the kind of game the DM wanted to run. Not every game has to be some 100+ session epic campaign. Some early D&D games were dungeon crawls with just fighting and not some overarching plot.
You said you hired a child to gather info. That was a good idea and the DM could have used that to deliver information to drive the plot (if there was one) forward. But they either didn’t pick up on the opportunity or just chose not to.
The Leonin player was acting badly and you wanted to do something about it since the DM didn’t. But just like in many real life workplaces, retaliation is not acceptable and subject to disciplinary action (irl fired, in your case kicked from the group).
I am new to the whole DnD game, started in this group and i dont really know anyone else and the reason i ask on this forum is because everyone seems to think i did something wrong. I tried telling DM about it with some feedback since i am no longer a part of the game. But he took it as a personal insult instead of trying to see what i wanted to tell him.
yes, i understand fun is different from person to person and PvP can ruin the fun of it, if done thoughtless, but i do cherish the idea that everyone get to do whatever in rpgs, but everything you do can and will have consequences just like in real life.
For exemple a thief is a thief, so he/she should be allowed to try to steal from the party if he want to, but consequences may happen, you know what i mean.
anyway thank you for responding 🙏🏻
D&D is generally viewed as coop type game only. It's rare for people to run games that allow PvP.
It is also often assumed that people play their characters in a way that make the party stick together and work together, even if a character is evil among good characters, will that character find a way to not screw the party over.
So if i understand you correctly. A thief should not steal? Isnt that the same as saying a fighter shouldnt fight?
i mean, one doesnt have to do it all the time at every given time. But i think one could be excused to do as the character would do once in a while.
A thief should steal, but never from the other players. Whatever you can think of that would be negative towards another player character is considered pvp and should never be done in game. If you want a game that allows this, then it's very important to find a group that wants to play this way, as this is definitely not the norm.
Sure it's a RPG but no that doesn't mean you get to treat it as an excuse to do anything you want to do. Firstly, because the game is for everyone not just you. Secondly, because using it as place to live out sick or perverted fantasies is cringe as ****. Yes, choosing to deliberately kill children for no reason, is sick. Fantasy or not. Evil campaign or not.
What a player should do is much more important than what a character would do. If your character was a thief it wouldn't justify stealing from your team-mates. A small harmless prank is fine, but stealing their gold or more prized items would not be. This is PVP and is not the normal default assumption. A game is "non-PVP" unless explicitly stated otherwise. Why? Because it is a CO-OPERATIVE game. That means the inherent idea is you WORK TOGETHER not against each other.
The DM told you PVP was a no. You continued. Yes, plotting and framing team-members is PVP. The phrase PVP is "player versus player" - it is not just about active attacks, it is anything that is going to deliberately hinder their fun. Framing characters for murder is a very big serious thing, it is not a "fun prank" (the idea you think that is a rather disturbing sign about your mentality). You're working against a player because you're not happy with how they play - and how they play was allowed by the DM. This is you being petty and selfish.
Whether the DM or Leonin were right or wrong doesn't matter. You were still in the wrong. Very much so. That's why you got kicked. Learn from it, accept it and move on to the next group. Whining in ego-fuelled self-defense on here isn't helping your situation. You asked if you were wrong - the answer was yes and it was explained why. Perhaps you learn for next game or perhaps you don't. That's up to you. But don't keep coming back on here expecting the answer to change. Your justifications are false, and yes, we've read them all, and we're still saying so. Take a step back to realise this and learn, rather than letting a bruised pride go keyboard-warrior for you (it's only making it worse for you).
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A while ago i was kicked out of a group playing d&d and i would like to hear your opinion on this.
I was playing a warlock/the fiend Chaotic neutral going towards evil alignment. His personal traits were manipulative and greedy.
We had no session zero and was told later that PvP was not allowed when i tried to use command spell with ”surrender” on our tank during a streetfight between him and another player.
anyway, as i rescued this tank one time with ”spare the dying” i asked for payment for future help this way, and the price i was asking was his whiskers (he plays a leonin) and with a little persuasion he gave me one, the dwarf shaved off half of his beard. later on this leonin created a shortword for me with his name carved in it.
Between some sessions i hired a child hireling to give me information and deliver messages and in the end spread a rumor about the leonin as being the leader of an assassin organization. The NPC did not do well on several occasions and was only a cost with no benefit so i killed the hireling and planted the leonins whisker on the body and impaled the shortsword in the childs body.
i had a plan that he was supposed to stand before the king charged with murder. since i met king earlier and warned them about a demon that was set free i could persuade him into letting leonin free under my responibility, i would only ask for all his whiskers for this.
after that session, i had to explain my actions for DM. He told me i ruin the game with PvP and kicked me from the group. I dont think that is PvP and i believe I didnt deserve getting kicked from the group.
If you read this far, what do you think?
You are right, i havent described the game and i litterally cant do that either because there never seemed like there was an actual plot to follow, when the demon was released through a ritual i thought that would be a big thing so i went to tell the king about it, but we as a group received nothing for that. Otherwise it was just Side-quests through the sessions. Going here slaying an enemy, going there slaying another. There wasnt much to derail in all honesty.
the player who played leonin was the one who wanted to be everywhere every time something happened acting as the star of the show, he was cheating and several players saw it and was metagaming too much even though everyone told him not to, even DM.
So yeah, i wanted to frame him for a fun cause, mainly because he could act and do whatever without getting in trouble for it, being a friend with the DM. I wanted something more to happen because for about several sessions nothing happened and i wanted to give DM opportunity to use something i did to evolve his story into something useful.
Every time i tried something, putting up a flyer in a major city to get work, hire a hireling to gain some information/gossip, joining mages guild (where a wizard mainly ******** to a crystal ball in the lobby, true story) talking to different NPC to try to get somewhere. Nothing i did gave me anything, so i grew tired became a criminal just for something to happen.
any time i tried something i got like ”your mama” as an answer.
So if I'm this DM, and I am glad I am not only by the sounds of your posts, but I would have kicked you too.
Let's explain why.
You're new to D&D, and D&D is a social game. Each table runs different, and each table has different rules. The DM clearly had an idea for his game, and it sounds childish to me, a 35 year old man who has been playing roleplaying games for 20 years, but I remember running games where people were ******* in the streets and inappropriate dick jokes were everywhere.
So you came into this game, no expectations were set, and you were told after the surrender thing that no PVP was allowed, so you tried to circumvent the rule. You didn't directly kill the player, but you totally killed the player. Now, when we look at the reverse, we have a player who is cheating, but they aren't directly attacking you. The DM apparently doesn't want to put their foot down, but you crossed the line they DID have. You started playing a solo game for your enjoyment, and now you're mad that you are no longer a part of that game when you knew the consequence to your actions.
Now, I'm not excusing the actions of the table, but clearly they're ok with that. Clearly they are OK with dice roll manipulation, metagaming, and some minor PVP shoving matches as long as it doesn't go to blows. You couldn't read the social cues and clues, and that's what got you kicked.
Now, to answer a question that you might ask, would I have run this table differently? Absolutely. That wasn't your question though, your question was with all given evidence, would I have kicked you? If I were at that table, with what was going on, and what the perceived social allowances were? 100%.
Look, i have accepted that i got kicked all i wanted was to know your opinions, i stated several times already that i understand what you guys are saying and i have explained as much as i need to, if i were to explain more of the sessions it would be throwing DM under the bus and i do not want to do that because as you say he is a nice guy, slightly unfair only. The leonin is a nice guy too, but he cheats and so on like i stated earlier and talking to DM about it didnt change anything.
I have come to the conclusion that it does not matter what i tell you. Because you have already decided i am bad so i am just going to let it be like that, most probably i am a bad player because it was my first time playing DnD and noone really told me where the line is drawn.
i know i had high expectations on the game because it is a fantasy game. i believed and still believe that it should be adventurous and interesting where your imagination draw the line. i came to realize that playing dnd the way they do, i might as well play a game of chess or Warcry.
So i am not mad for being kicked from the game honestly, i am only confused over it. And i generally wanted to see of there are other players that think like me. But from what i have seen, other players dont obviously.
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No, my idea of fun is not to ruin it for everyone else, but if several is ruining the fun for me, then i make sure to return the favor.
and that is generelly what happened.
i was not the one arguing with DM over minor things, the leonin was.
i was not the one cheating, leonin was
i was not the one metagaming, leonin was
i was not the one trying to control other players during those players turns, leonin was
We said on several occasions that he should not do this and we told DM to tell him so also, but there was no improvements.
I was merely trying to teach him a lesson, because DM didnt seem to be able to.
so yeah, probably i was a bad player but there was a reason for it.
Don't make a bad situation worse - that's just petty. If a problem arose - and you talked about it - but nothing happened. Leave.
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Bad DMs breed bad players and poor campaigns.
You are correct, and as one of the other players, they taught you to be a bad player. That's your problem. You tried to jack around a problem player, and the DM admitted that they were a problem, who was only tolerated because they were a friend. It is clear that you and the DM were not friends. Why would you expect them to tolerate you? Messing with any other player character in a negative way is PvP. even if you're a Thief. Many DMs do not allow it. That was the rule, you violated in the first place. Apparently you consider yourself better than both the DM and his friend the Leonin.
Try running your own games if you're so great as all that.
<Insert clever signature here>
I’d have kicked you out, too. Honestly, I probably wouldn’t have let you play a CN character — that’s usually code for “I plan to be disruptive.”
Doing what you want in a game doesn’t mean you can be a jerk to other players. That’s a baseline that shouldn’t even have to come up in a session 0. It’s just not the way people treat other people in society.
And if you did start acting like that, and just try to say it’s “in character” why would the rest of the party “in character”continue to adventure with your character. Their characters’ most reasonable action would have been to kick your character out of the party. Or at least for that tank to start charging you body parts every time they stopped an enemy from running back to get to you. It’s a team game, and you were not being a team player.
Does it matter wether i am a friend to the DM or not? All players should play under the same equal terms and that was not the case here. Giving benefits to someone just because they know that person irl is bad.
I dont claim myself to be a better player or DM for that matter. But i am running my own game with some of the people from that group including the DM.
And i believe most of them find it interesting to play with me as DM. That’s what they told when i asked for feedback.
I was not really messing with other players direct PvP, I stopped that when DM first told me not to.
But i did try to frame a player for murder, which means i gave DM something to play out any way he wanted to. If he really wanted to; he could have had a witness see me to put me in that bad situation instead. It became all under DM’s discreation, but either he couldnt plan the game around it or he just didnt want to. Whatever that could have happened from there would be on DM’s behalf.
If similar thing would happen in my campaign, i would have had it run its course. See what happens and let them try to break him out of prison or let the person escape using a few DC checks and then make them a shorter quest to prove his innocense or something like that.
As a general rule, D&D is a "team sport." That's why a party has members with different skillsets, so they can work together to overcome all sorts of challenges. Killing a child and framing a party-mate is the opposite of being a team player. You played as a dick. As a general rule, most people don't like *****. You shouldn't be surprised when you get hostile reactions for being a dick. After all, you say you like the fact that actions have consequences. Consider it meta-game level stuff that "If you're a dick, you will not be welcome in most groups."
I mean as a thief don't steal from the party. A fighter doesn't fight with a party, so why would a thief steal from the party? You can try to steal from (insert bad guy here) and that's fine. Just don't piss off the party or the DM. "It's what my character would do" as an excuse for a bad action basically means that you made a character that is not a good character to make.
i am not going to repeat myself, read the comments.
Yeah i heard all about it already.
read the comments, because i am not going to explain again.
You came here seeking vindication. Everybody has responded with some variety of "You acted like a jerk and I wouldn't want to play with you either."
This is not your place, as a player.
If you feel like something is wrong, you can talk to the DM. If the DM does not agree, you can either put up with it or leave the game.
It is not OK for you to start "policing" the other players or second-guessing the calls of the DM. You either accept the DM's calls, or leave the game.
WOTC lies. We know that WOTC lies. WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. We know that WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. And still they lie.
Because of the above (a paraphrase from Orwell) I no longer post to the forums -- PM me if you need help or anything.
"But i did try to frame a player for murder" That is Player versus Player, maybe you don't think of it that way, but indirect or not, you used your own character to do something bad to someone else's character. The term Player Character includes the word "player" in it. You say the DM didn't choose to react to it. Must be a very nice guy, because I'd have kicked you out of my game right then. The DM is under no obligation to allow you to create sub-plots, so the whole thing that you say you do in your own game, by letting someone frame someone else for murder, doesn't have to fly with them in theirs. Again, they were being nice, and chose not to punish you by throwing you in jail. I doubt the other players would bother breaking you out, so that's probably for the best.
You said that it's wrong to favor someone else because you are a friend of theirs in real life. This is true. The DM knew that and was trying to work around it, you decided to intervene because you decided the DM was taking too long. If you want to think of yourself and the DM as being friendly, let alone being actual friends, jacking them around isn't a friendly thing to do, and nobody I know treats a friend that way on purpose. I give my friends a hard time a lot, I make jokes, I pick on them about their wording sometimes. It's all meant to be fun. I don't go out and do something they specifically told me they didn't want me to do.
Apparently, not only are you a bad player, you are also childish. You have come to the forums to tell everyone how you were terribly mistreated and you won't listen when every single other post has said you were in the wrong. You're doing the equivalent of throwing a temper tantrum. Your latest post is also something a child does. "I'm not going to repeat myself." You want us to take the trouble to go back and read the whole thread over again instead of explaining yourself adequately. Next up, you will probably take your ball away, and nobody gets to play anymore. We aren't in Southpark. You shouldn't be acting like Cartmen.
<Insert clever signature here>
When I first read this thread, I thought: Oh, this person is trying to learn from their mistakes, good for them.
But as it’s progressed, it seems that was not the case at all. Instead, it seems like they thought they were wronged, and are looking for others to agree they were wronged.They have a unanimous chorus of people saying: no, they were not wronged, they were in the wrong. And then they keep grasping at ways to show they were actually correct in their behavior, but nothing has changed anyone’s opinion.
Maybe instead of arguing, accept the constructive criticism and try to learn from the experience.
"They started it" as an excuse should be left in kindergarten, and trying to manipulate your DM is not the right answer to anything.
What's more, in light of all the above, why bring up "it's what my character would do and players should be able to do what they want as long as they accept the consequences" as your justification first? You trying to teach another player (and your DM for not dealing with that player) a lesson is something else entirely.
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a few things
You said there didn’t seem to be a plot so you did some things because you were bored. I can understand that. And some DM’s might be skillful enough to take those actions and tie them into the story or seize on it and create plot hooks. But keep in mind that maybe the DM had these side quests for a reason, maybe to set up the main plot for the campaign. Or maybe that was just the kind of game the DM wanted to run. Not every game has to be some 100+ session epic campaign. Some early D&D games were dungeon crawls with just fighting and not some overarching plot.
You said you hired a child to gather info. That was a good idea and the DM could have used that to deliver information to drive the plot (if there was one) forward. But they either didn’t pick up on the opportunity or just chose not to.
The Leonin player was acting badly and you wanted to do something about it since the DM didn’t. But just like in many real life workplaces, retaliation is not acceptable and subject to disciplinary action (irl fired, in your case kicked from the group).
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D&D is generally viewed as coop type game only. It's rare for people to run games that allow PvP.
It is also often assumed that people play their characters in a way that make the party stick together and work together, even if a character is evil among good characters, will that character find a way to not screw the party over.
Altrazin Aghanes - Wizard/Fighter
Varpulis Windhowl - Fighter
Skolson Demjon - Cleric/Fighter
A thief should steal, but never from the other players. Whatever you can think of that would be negative towards another player character is considered pvp and should never be done in game. If you want a game that allows this, then it's very important to find a group that wants to play this way, as this is definitely not the norm.
A thief would steal from NPCs, ie. the DM.
Altrazin Aghanes - Wizard/Fighter
Varpulis Windhowl - Fighter
Skolson Demjon - Cleric/Fighter
I'd have kicked you too.
Sure it's a RPG but no that doesn't mean you get to treat it as an excuse to do anything you want to do. Firstly, because the game is for everyone not just you. Secondly, because using it as place to live out sick or perverted fantasies is cringe as ****. Yes, choosing to deliberately kill children for no reason, is sick. Fantasy or not. Evil campaign or not.
What a player should do is much more important than what a character would do. If your character was a thief it wouldn't justify stealing from your team-mates. A small harmless prank is fine, but stealing their gold or more prized items would not be. This is PVP and is not the normal default assumption. A game is "non-PVP" unless explicitly stated otherwise. Why? Because it is a CO-OPERATIVE game. That means the inherent idea is you WORK TOGETHER not against each other.
The DM told you PVP was a no. You continued. Yes, plotting and framing team-members is PVP. The phrase PVP is "player versus player" - it is not just about active attacks, it is anything that is going to deliberately hinder their fun. Framing characters for murder is a very big serious thing, it is not a "fun prank" (the idea you think that is a rather disturbing sign about your mentality). You're working against a player because you're not happy with how they play - and how they play was allowed by the DM. This is you being petty and selfish.
Whether the DM or Leonin were right or wrong doesn't matter. You were still in the wrong. Very much so. That's why you got kicked. Learn from it, accept it and move on to the next group. Whining in ego-fuelled self-defense on here isn't helping your situation. You asked if you were wrong - the answer was yes and it was explained why. Perhaps you learn for next game or perhaps you don't. That's up to you. But don't keep coming back on here expecting the answer to change. Your justifications are false, and yes, we've read them all, and we're still saying so. Take a step back to realise this and learn, rather than letting a bruised pride go keyboard-warrior for you (it's only making it worse for you).
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So if I'm this DM, and I am glad I am not only by the sounds of your posts, but I would have kicked you too.
Let's explain why.
You're new to D&D, and D&D is a social game. Each table runs different, and each table has different rules. The DM clearly had an idea for his game, and it sounds childish to me, a 35 year old man who has been playing roleplaying games for 20 years, but I remember running games where people were ******* in the streets and inappropriate dick jokes were everywhere.
So you came into this game, no expectations were set, and you were told after the surrender thing that no PVP was allowed, so you tried to circumvent the rule. You didn't directly kill the player, but you totally killed the player. Now, when we look at the reverse, we have a player who is cheating, but they aren't directly attacking you. The DM apparently doesn't want to put their foot down, but you crossed the line they DID have. You started playing a solo game for your enjoyment, and now you're mad that you are no longer a part of that game when you knew the consequence to your actions.
Now, I'm not excusing the actions of the table, but clearly they're ok with that. Clearly they are OK with dice roll manipulation, metagaming, and some minor PVP shoving matches as long as it doesn't go to blows. You couldn't read the social cues and clues, and that's what got you kicked.
Now, to answer a question that you might ask, would I have run this table differently? Absolutely. That wasn't your question though, your question was with all given evidence, would I have kicked you? If I were at that table, with what was going on, and what the perceived social allowances were? 100%.
Look, i have accepted that i got kicked all i wanted was to know your opinions, i stated several times already that i understand what you guys are saying and i have explained as much as i need to, if i were to explain more of the sessions it would be throwing DM under the bus and i do not want to do that because as you say he is a nice guy, slightly unfair only. The leonin is a nice guy too, but he cheats and so on like i stated earlier and talking to DM about it didnt change anything.
I have come to the conclusion that it does not matter what i tell you. Because you have already decided i am bad so i am just going to let it be like that, most probably i am a bad player because it was my first time playing DnD and noone really told me where the line is drawn.
i know i had high expectations on the game because it is a fantasy game. i believed and still believe that it should be adventurous and interesting where your imagination draw the line.
i came to realize that playing dnd the way they do, i might as well play a game of chess or Warcry.
So i am not mad for being kicked from the game honestly, i am only confused over it. And i generally wanted to see of there are other players that think like me.
But from what i have seen, other players dont obviously.