This reminds me of a story told by the creator of The Far Side, Gary Larson.
In his telling of it, he drew a cover for In Search of the Far Side (and he requests that people don't go looking for it). During a book signing, a kid came up and made note how phallic the stone idol looked, and he, for the first time, realized what he had unwittingly drawn. He called up his publisher in a panic. The way he tells it, she goes silent, assuming she was looking over the image. The next word she spoke defused the entire thing: "So?"
She further explained that people are going to see what they want to see. Larson resolved to use that very same response if someone came to him to point out something he didn't intentionally draw. "So?"
To the point of this thread (aka tl;dr), people are going to see what they want to see.
So?
It's a wildly different thing. Drawing something and not realizing there is an unintended message in the drawing is not the same thing as intentionally drawing a characeture called THAC0 the clown who is fat and grumpy, hates children and guards a gate. It's about as subtle as throwing a brick through a window.
I plan to vote with my wallet personally, if Wizards of the Coast doesn't want my money then I won't give it to them.
This is the best plan for anyone that doesn't like something from a business. You can trust that the company will follow the path with the most profits and there will be times that you find that your path isn't the one they choose. That is just the way of things.
Now that I've had time to read what's in the book for this character, I'm a little puzzled about his alleged characterization. I don't see any of that stuff here, to be frank.
Was there a streamed game where the DM played him as a stab at grognards, maybe?
I think if you choose to identify with a character named after a system basically everyone hates and mocks, that says more about you than it does the people who created the character
Uh, many of us old timers recall THAC0 fondly...
I am an old timer, and "many" is charitable. People hated THAC0 at the time as needlessly fiddly, and its reputation hasn't improved with time
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Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock) Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric) Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue) Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
Are there really substantial numbers of folks taking true offense at a NPC's name being an "in joke" that requires knowing one point from old rule systems to be in on? People can call them Easter eggs, but Easter eggs used to be things one would have to look hard for (you'd have to hunt for Easter eggs, that's why they're called Easter eggs, not see it in double pointed font right there on a name), now the term's just used to describe any allusive self or meta reference. That some individual on the internet is writing for upvotes to claim grievous injury by said reference is both incredible and unsurprising.
I had a brief hunt before posting this and found enough people on various forums moaning about how WOTC was Bullying long time players and this was just more proof that if your not a CR lover then WOTC don't want you. I mean there was some real real stretching, and of course enough people around to validate and re validate every bizzare comment made. There have also been youtube videos about it, some up to 30 mins long, berating WOTC for attacking it's OG fan base.
Personally I think it is a case of people trying to find reasons to be offended, or trying to create a narrative that somehow WOTC is some despicable company and how dare they commercialise and make DnD succesfull commercially. it reminds me a lot of friends who love a band while it is stil small and indie, but then start to moan about it and find things to complain about once it gains any measure of real success. The answer to my mind is really simple, there is are many many roleplay systems out there, if you don't like Wizards then go and play something else. You have so so much choice, I find it particularly amusing when players complain constantly about DnD but then admit to have never tried playing any other system.
Anyway I found it amusing seeing a bunch of people who, like me have played the game for a long time, getting angry over something that really isn't important.
My only question is as such: if you see Thaco the Clown as a "sad, grumpy, ugly old man who hates children and guards a gate" and protest because you see yourself in that character?
Why would you do so, and shouldn't that worry you?
My only question is as such: if you see Thaco the Clown as a "sad, grumpy, ugly old man who hates children and guards a gate" and protest because you see yourself in that character?
Why would you do so, and shouldn't that worry you?
Stereotypes are a thing. I don't have a neon pink undercut or weigh 400 pounds, but I can still recognize such a caricature as being a caricature of me as a non-binary person.
That said, the impression I got from reading the book's text about Thaco wasn't that he was sad, grumpy, or ugly. Instead, he's a pretty straightforward scary clown. The joke here is that nobody knows his past, but he uses knives and has a name that you only use when you're talking about stabbing people. The idea that he's a caricature of real gamers is, I feel pretty confident in declaring, a heck of a stretch.
Everybody can be offended by anything. It's nobody's place to suggest or state someone else can't or shouldn't be offended by something. However, that doesn't necessarily make that thing offensive to anyone else either. I'm into my 4th decade as a D&D player, certainly have a lot of practical experience with THAC0 (which IMO was neither as horrible as some detractors make it out to be nor the minor inconvenience that maybe should have been preserved for backwards compatibility's sake others apparently think it was) and great fondness for my days of playing TSR's D&D (if no lasting fondness whatsoever for the 2nd ed rulesets) and I don't see this as insulting or offensive at all. The thought never even occurred to me, even though the reference to the old mechanics was impossible to miss. It's not a sneer at old school gamers. It's just not. If it was, it'd have been much more obvious than a name and a character being an asocial clown with a penchant for knives.
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Want to start playing but don't have anyone to play with? You can try these options: [link].
it reminds me a lot of friends who love a band while it is stil small and indie, but then start to moan about it and find things to complain about once it gains any measure of real success.
"Oh, you like Dungeons and Dragons? Name three of their albums"
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock) Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric) Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue) Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
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This is the best plan for anyone that doesn't like something from a business. You can trust that the company will follow the path with the most profits and there will be times that you find that your path isn't the one they choose. That is just the way of things.
She/Her Player and Dungeon Master
Now that I've had time to read what's in the book for this character, I'm a little puzzled about his alleged characterization. I don't see any of that stuff here, to be frank.
Was there a streamed game where the DM played him as a stab at grognards, maybe?
I am an old timer, and "many" is charitable. People hated THAC0 at the time as needlessly fiddly, and its reputation hasn't improved with time
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock)
Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
I had a brief hunt before posting this and found enough people on various forums moaning about how WOTC was Bullying long time players and this was just more proof that if your not a CR lover then WOTC don't want you. I mean there was some real real stretching, and of course enough people around to validate and re validate every bizzare comment made. There have also been youtube videos about it, some up to 30 mins long, berating WOTC for attacking it's OG fan base.
Personally I think it is a case of people trying to find reasons to be offended, or trying to create a narrative that somehow WOTC is some despicable company and how dare they commercialise and make DnD succesfull commercially. it reminds me a lot of friends who love a band while it is stil small and indie, but then start to moan about it and find things to complain about once it gains any measure of real success. The answer to my mind is really simple, there is are many many roleplay systems out there, if you don't like Wizards then go and play something else. You have so so much choice, I find it particularly amusing when players complain constantly about DnD but then admit to have never tried playing any other system.
Anyway I found it amusing seeing a bunch of people who, like me have played the game for a long time, getting angry over something that really isn't important.
My only question is as such: if you see Thaco the Clown as a "sad, grumpy, ugly old man who hates children and guards a gate" and protest because you see yourself in that character?
Why would you do so, and shouldn't that worry you?
Please do not contact or message me.
Stereotypes are a thing. I don't have a neon pink undercut or weigh 400 pounds, but I can still recognize such a caricature as being a caricature of me as a non-binary person.
That said, the impression I got from reading the book's text about Thaco wasn't that he was sad, grumpy, or ugly. Instead, he's a pretty straightforward scary clown. The joke here is that nobody knows his past, but he uses knives and has a name that you only use when you're talking about stabbing people. The idea that he's a caricature of real gamers is, I feel pretty confident in declaring, a heck of a stretch.
Everybody can be offended by anything. It's nobody's place to suggest or state someone else can't or shouldn't be offended by something. However, that doesn't necessarily make that thing offensive to anyone else either. I'm into my 4th decade as a D&D player, certainly have a lot of practical experience with THAC0 (which IMO was neither as horrible as some detractors make it out to be nor the minor inconvenience that maybe should have been preserved for backwards compatibility's sake others apparently think it was) and great fondness for my days of playing TSR's D&D (if no lasting fondness whatsoever for the 2nd ed rulesets) and I don't see this as insulting or offensive at all. The thought never even occurred to me, even though the reference to the old mechanics was impossible to miss. It's not a sneer at old school gamers. It's just not. If it was, it'd have been much more obvious than a name and a character being an asocial clown with a penchant for knives.
Want to start playing but don't have anyone to play with? You can try these options: [link].
Thac0 the Clown made me smile as i played over a decade with a chart to hit AC 0. I didn't feel offended in the slightest
Agreed
Wisea$$ DM and Player since 1979.
"Oh, you like Dungeons and Dragons? Name three of their albums"
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock)
Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)