I haven't been playing since 2nd edition, so I will have a lot of questions coming up here. :-)
So, I am creating a unique weapon, unless someone came up with the same idea while I was away from the D&D world, that I have imagined back in high school (20+ years ago). It is called "The Crosse", as in a Lacrosse stick. It was inspired from Tasslehoff Burrfoot's Hoopak. But is a little more than that.
The Crosse is an arcane focus. It is a 3ft long and an inch thick hardwood rod/cane with a one foot steel pointy end. The handle looks like the end of a vintage lacrosse stick and has engravings. The net of the pocket is made of elastic material and is removable with a flick of a wrist. It is also a weapon that can be used as both melee -Bludgeoning (1d6) if you hit someone on the head with it and Piercing (1d6) if you stick someone with the steel tip- and ranged weapon Bludgeoning (1d4) when used like a slingshot.
I also found this new spell called Catapult, which is awesome. My character used to fling acid flasks back in the day with this thing adding Catapult makes this thing incredible. But I am concerned is it getting too powerful of a weapon.
I think it is pretty neat and even balanced for a weapon/focus. Only thing that I would argue is that the stated length would put it closer to club+dagger damage territory rather than quarterstaff+spear.
That's a good point. After I put this up I actually tested the use of such 3ft item, with my daughter's collapsible lightsaber and you are right it was more like a combination of dagger and a club. I even thought of a leather wrapping as a grip at the end of the steel part.
I will publish it after I finish tinkering with it with the feedback I will get here.
I will publish it after I finish tinkering with it with the feedback I will get here.
Awesome 😊
side note: not sure if I understood correctly the first time, but is the Catapult spell attached to the item? If it is not, do you plan on doing so? Personally, I find it to be an interesting spell, but there are always more compelling choices. Getting "free" usage of it would be very fun and only take a bump in rarity, I would imagine.
I had Catapult attached to it. It has 4 charges and At dawn recharges 1d4-1 of the expended charges. So I am planning to use catapult with acid flasks, so total will be 3d8 bludgeoning + 2d6 acid damage. :-D
Though if I may be so bold as to provided feedback on the implementation...
And this is just me being nitpicky mind you, but might I suggest changing the category from "item" to "weapon" (sling)? That way the attack shows up in that section of the sheet and you also have a head start on the range attack properties that are lacking in the item description (range in particular, and weather or not it makes its own magic ammo or uses mundane ammunition from a pouch). The sling makes a good template for both damage and the range (from what little I know and have experienced of lacrosse). Only downside to this method is that it will show up as a sling in the inventory and mention proficiencies, but I thought it may be worth mentioning.
I would also suggest adding in the usage properties of the catapult spell in the item description. If I was not part of the conversation here I would have no clue as to why the catapult spell showed up other than it was attached to the item for some reason. I would also clarify if the spell requires the item to be in the net or not. That is how I personally picture it being used, but the spell itself just indicates a target in 60ft of you.
I agree with the Sling idea. That what I first thought as well, but the main use of the item is actually arcane focus. Also it is definitely not a sling. A sling uses centrifugal force to throw the bullets. This is a slingshot; it uses the potential energy stored in the elastic material as you pull it.
I actually added the attacks of the item as "Custom actions" in the character sheet.
Adding the details of the use of catapult in the description makes a lot of sense. It makes more sense for Crosse to only apply Catapult to items in its "pocket" as Lacrosse terminology goes. :-)
I also decided that the last 1 foot of Crosse, that is steel should be hidden inside the wood handle normally. It is spring-loaded into the wooden handle. :-D
I agree with the Sling idea. That what I first thought as well, but the main use of the item is actually arcane focus. Also it is definitely not a sling. A sling uses centrifugal force to throw the bullets. This is a slingshot; it uses the potential energy stored in the elastic material as you pull it.
I understand the main role as a focus, but as far as the implementation goes, I still feel like it should take after the weapon category so that you (or others that may use it) do not have to make the custom actions. The sling seemed like the closest option without having to mess with the properties too much. The sheet will say its a sling even though we know it is not, and take proficiency like a sling, but I think that is a necessary evil. Though I was thinking of it like a lacrosse stick pocket as you say and not a slingshot (even though you have indeed stated so). I guess I got too focused on the picture. Thrown range may be more appropriate to a slingshot for effective use, but I don't know a whole lot about slingshots so you may disagree. And it can still be used as a focus if you say it can be, just a matter which part of the implementation is more important to you.
I also decided that the last 1 foot of Crosse, that is steel should be hidden inside the wood handle normally. It is spring-loaded into the wooden handle. :-D
Is it too much?
As far as cool features go, no, not at all. Only issues with that sort of thing that I can see is action economy and complexity. Does it take an action to trigger the hidden blade? Bonus action? And now you are adding more text and functions to something that already has a bunch of stuff going on.
I, personally, would remove the dagger feature altogether to make it simpler to use as a weapon, but at the end of the day, it is your item you are creating for you. My opinion should have very little weight.
Yeah, you're right. It is easier to have it as a weapon. But why not base it on club than sling? In either case you can only show a single type of attack in the sheet and have to add the other as a custom action. Can you think of a weapon that has both ranged and melee attack?
Dagger does create to much of a complexity from either the design perspective or the use perspective. Either I have it open for everyone to see which makes the character an obvious threat, and also means that the blade is open to damages or make it retractable which makes the design too complex. I was planning this character to pull something like Collin Firth with the umbrella in the pub scene in Kingsman. So looking like a simple cane is important.
Maybe simply make the dagger covered with a wooden sheath and the character can pull the sheath off of the blade?
It is also possible to go back to the source of inspiration, Tasslehoff's hoopak here and put a simple poker tip instead of a blade.
About the slingshot and lacrosse stick's pocket. You are right I did say pocket, but in my mind it was always a slingshot, that is one of the reasons for the pocket to be made from elastic material. Also, just checked, even in the first post I say slingshot. :-) But I obviously wasn't clear enough.
Confession: when I was a kid I practised what I called apple slinging.
You (I) picked a windfall apple up from the garden, stuck it on the end of a long sharpened stick and then swung the stick with the result that the apple came free at around max speed. They went far further than I could ever have thrown them and could have, who knows, done an extent of distant damage.
Lacrosse comes from a Native American sport but I'd be surprised if others haven't had parallel ideas. People have used siege weapons with catapult arms and I imagine that people would have tried similar things by hand.
I'd think that the Crosse would more naturally lend to being a straight war weapon though there's no reason not to use it as an arcane focus. I'm just surprised not to find examples of something similar as having been in historical use.
Yeah, you're right. It is easier to have it as a weapon. But why not base it on club than sling? In either case you can only show a single type of attack in the sheet and have to add the other as a custom action. Can you think of a weapon that has both ranged and melee attack?
Dagger does create to much of a complexity from either the design perspective or the use perspective. Either I have it open for everyone to see which makes the character an obvious threat, and also means that the blade is open to damages or make it retractable which makes the design too complex. I was planning this character to pull something like Collin Firth with the umbrella in the pub scene in Kingsman. So looking like a simple cane is important.
Maybe simply make the dagger covered with a wooden sheath and the character can pull the sheath off of the blade?
It is also possible to go back to the source of inspiration, Tasslehoff's hoopak here and put a simple poker tip instead of a blade.
The idea behind the sling was to have the ranged attack properties on display, mainly for the range. After a quick google search, it looks like the thrown weapon range is more appropriate to a slingshots effective range. This is when it really sucks to not be able to make base weapons with the toolset. Instead, we gotta cut corners and make something janky to sorta fit what we had in mind. Ultimately, it is up to you which corners you want to cut. Light hammer for the range, but listed as thrown. Sling, but range is different. Club, but no ranged properties can be made visible...
Regarding the dagger... I do like it since it is cool and flavorful, but I hate to say it, it just does not add anything mechanically speaking. Pretending it is a walking stick and then smacking someone with it will have the same effect in game as unsheathing a dagger and shoving it in their gut. Just not as visceral in the storytelling. But again, your item, so your choice. That is just the minmaxer in me speaking.
About the slingshot and lacrosse stick's pocket. You are right I did say pocket, but in my mind it was always a slingshot, that is one of the reasons for the pocket to be made from elastic material. Also, just checked, even in the first post I say slingshot. :-) But I obviously wasn't clear enough.
No, no. You were plenty clear from the start. I just got hung up on the picture is all.
Light hammer is an interesting point. It does have both ranged and melee properties, right. What would happen if I pick light hammer as base, it will classify as light hammer when searched but will it have both ranged and melee attacks shown in the sheet?
I selected light hammer as base. This is how it looks in the action list.
Looking good. If I am not mistaken, you should be able to use the "Ignore Weapon Property - Thrown" modifier to remove that bit and it SHOULD still display the range. I could be wrong, but I think that is how it should work. I don't 100% remember. If that works and you have the description squared away already, it should be good to go, I think.
Hm. Didn't work like I thought, but I guess it ended up working out in the end. Probably as close to perfect you can get with the system. Then I guess either make the custom action for the dagger or just handwave it since it is the same die and the damage type will probably only matter in a couple of fringe cases?
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Hi everyone,
I haven't been playing since 2nd edition, so I will have a lot of questions coming up here. :-)
So, I am creating a unique weapon, unless someone came up with the same idea while I was away from the D&D world, that I have imagined back in high school (20+ years ago). It is called "The Crosse", as in a Lacrosse stick. It was inspired from Tasslehoff Burrfoot's Hoopak. But is a little more than that.
The Crosse is an arcane focus. It is a 3ft long and an inch thick hardwood rod/cane with a one foot steel pointy end. The handle looks like the end of a vintage lacrosse stick and has engravings. The net of the pocket is made of elastic material and is removable with a flick of a wrist. It is also a weapon that can be used as both melee -Bludgeoning (1d6) if you hit someone on the head with it and Piercing (1d6) if you stick someone with the steel tip- and ranged weapon Bludgeoning (1d4) when used like a slingshot.
I also found this new spell called Catapult, which is awesome. My character used to fling acid flasks back in the day with this thing adding Catapult makes this thing incredible. But I am concerned is it getting too powerful of a weapon.
This is how the handle is shaped.
So what do you all think about this weapon?
I think it is pretty neat and even balanced for a weapon/focus. Only thing that I would argue is that the stated length would put it closer to club+dagger damage territory rather than quarterstaff+spear.
Any plans to publish the item?
That's a good point. After I put this up I actually tested the use of such 3ft item, with my daughter's collapsible lightsaber and you are right it was more like a combination of dagger and a club. I even thought of a leather wrapping as a grip at the end of the steel part.
I will publish it after I finish tinkering with it with the feedback I will get here.
Awesome 😊
side note: not sure if I understood correctly the first time, but is the Catapult spell attached to the item? If it is not, do you plan on doing so? Personally, I find it to be an interesting spell, but there are always more compelling choices. Getting "free" usage of it would be very fun and only take a bump in rarity, I would imagine.
I had Catapult attached to it. It has 4 charges and At dawn recharges 1d4-1 of the expended charges. So I am planning to use catapult with acid flasks, so total will be 3d8 bludgeoning + 2d6 acid damage. :-D
Perfect. I am excited to see the final product.
https://www.dndbeyond.com/magic-items/4165974-crosse
Awesome.
Though if I may be so bold as to provided feedback on the implementation...
And this is just me being nitpicky mind you, but might I suggest changing the category from "item" to "weapon" (sling)? That way the attack shows up in that section of the sheet and you also have a head start on the range attack properties that are lacking in the item description (range in particular, and weather or not it makes its own magic ammo or uses mundane ammunition from a pouch). The sling makes a good template for both damage and the range (from what little I know and have experienced of lacrosse). Only downside to this method is that it will show up as a sling in the inventory and mention proficiencies, but I thought it may be worth mentioning.
I would also suggest adding in the usage properties of the catapult spell in the item description. If I was not part of the conversation here I would have no clue as to why the catapult spell showed up other than it was attached to the item for some reason. I would also clarify if the spell requires the item to be in the net or not. That is how I personally picture it being used, but the spell itself just indicates a target in 60ft of you.
Exactly the reason I started this thread.
I agree with the Sling idea. That what I first thought as well, but the main use of the item is actually arcane focus. Also it is definitely not a sling. A sling uses centrifugal force to throw the bullets. This is a slingshot; it uses the potential energy stored in the elastic material as you pull it.
I actually added the attacks of the item as "Custom actions" in the character sheet.
Adding the details of the use of catapult in the description makes a lot of sense. It makes more sense for Crosse to only apply Catapult to items in its "pocket" as Lacrosse terminology goes. :-)
I also decided that the last 1 foot of Crosse, that is steel should be hidden inside the wood handle normally. It is spring-loaded into the wooden handle. :-D
Is it too much?
Thanks for that. I'll make v2.0 soon.
I understand the main role as a focus, but as far as the implementation goes, I still feel like it should take after the weapon category so that you (or others that may use it) do not have to make the custom actions. The sling seemed like the closest option without having to mess with the properties too much. The sheet will say its a sling even though we know it is not, and take proficiency like a sling, but I think that is a necessary evil. Though I was thinking of it like a lacrosse stick pocket as you say and not a slingshot (even though you have indeed stated so). I guess I got too focused on the picture. Thrown range may be more appropriate to a slingshot for effective use, but I don't know a whole lot about slingshots so you may disagree. And it can still be used as a focus if you say it can be, just a matter which part of the implementation is more important to you.
As far as cool features go, no, not at all. Only issues with that sort of thing that I can see is action economy and complexity. Does it take an action to trigger the hidden blade? Bonus action? And now you are adding more text and functions to something that already has a bunch of stuff going on.
I, personally, would remove the dagger feature altogether to make it simpler to use as a weapon, but at the end of the day, it is your item you are creating for you. My opinion should have very little weight.
Yeah, you're right. It is easier to have it as a weapon. But why not base it on club than sling? In either case you can only show a single type of attack in the sheet and have to add the other as a custom action. Can you think of a weapon that has both ranged and melee attack?
Dagger does create to much of a complexity from either the design perspective or the use perspective. Either I have it open for everyone to see which makes the character an obvious threat, and also means that the blade is open to damages or make it retractable which makes the design too complex. I was planning this character to pull something like Collin Firth with the umbrella in the pub scene in Kingsman. So looking like a simple cane is important.
Maybe simply make the dagger covered with a wooden sheath and the character can pull the sheath off of the blade?
It is also possible to go back to the source of inspiration, Tasslehoff's hoopak here and put a simple poker tip instead of a blade.
About the slingshot and lacrosse stick's pocket. You are right I did say pocket, but in my mind it was always a slingshot, that is one of the reasons for the pocket to be made from elastic material. Also, just checked, even in the first post I say slingshot. :-) But I obviously wasn't clear enough.
Confession: when I was a kid I practised what I called apple slinging.
You (I) picked a windfall apple up from the garden, stuck it on the end of a long sharpened stick and then swung the stick with the result that the apple came free at around max speed. They went far further than I could ever have thrown them and could have, who knows, done an extent of distant damage.
Lacrosse comes from a Native American sport but I'd be surprised if others haven't had parallel ideas. People have used siege weapons with catapult arms and I imagine that people would have tried similar things by hand.
I'd think that the Crosse would more naturally lend to being a straight war weapon though there's no reason not to use it as an arcane focus. I'm just surprised not to find examples of something similar as having been in historical use.
The idea behind the sling was to have the ranged attack properties on display, mainly for the range. After a quick google search, it looks like the thrown weapon range is more appropriate to a slingshots effective range. This is when it really sucks to not be able to make base weapons with the toolset. Instead, we gotta cut corners and make something janky to sorta fit what we had in mind. Ultimately, it is up to you which corners you want to cut. Light hammer for the range, but listed as thrown. Sling, but range is different. Club, but no ranged properties can be made visible...
Regarding the dagger... I do like it since it is cool and flavorful, but I hate to say it, it just does not add anything mechanically speaking. Pretending it is a walking stick and then smacking someone with it will have the same effect in game as unsheathing a dagger and shoving it in their gut. Just not as visceral in the storytelling. But again, your item, so your choice. That is just the minmaxer in me speaking.
No, no. You were plenty clear from the start. I just got hung up on the picture is all.
Light hammer is an interesting point. It does have both ranged and melee properties, right. What would happen if I pick light hammer as base, it will classify as light hammer when searched but will it have both ranged and melee attacks shown in the sheet?
I selected light hammer as base. This is how it looks in the action list.
Looking good. If I am not mistaken, you should be able to use the "Ignore Weapon Property - Thrown" modifier to remove that bit and it SHOULD still display the range. I could be wrong, but I think that is how it should work. I don't 100% remember. If that works and you have the description squared away already, it should be good to go, I think.
When you remove "Thrown" property the range disappears.
Just thought of adding range weapon property and remove thrown. Then it works.
Hm. Didn't work like I thought, but I guess it ended up working out in the end. Probably as close to perfect you can get with the system. Then I guess either make the custom action for the dagger or just handwave it since it is the same die and the damage type will probably only matter in a couple of fringe cases?