Now on to our topic for today! I was wondering which class you think is the most powerful (this is considering a campaign with balanced battles and role play)?
Is it the barbarian, whose key power is the ability to go into rages?
Is it the bard, with the ability to give comrades inspiration dice and hold their own in light combat?
Is it the cleric, which all have unique features that come from their deity's divine domain?
Is it the druid, with the ability to turn from their natural form into that of particular wild beasts?
Is it the fighter, which is very good at combat?
Is it the monk, an armored martial artist who can fight with bare fists or weapons, and gains a pool of Ki points to fuel various supernatural abilities?
Is it the paladin, a warrior with innate healing abilities?
Is it the ranger, a scout of sorts with spellcasting abilities and knowledge against specific enemies?
Is it the rogue, consummate tricksters with abilities that make them hard to catch in addition to their classic sneak attack?
Is it the sorcerer, who channels the natural magic of their person into spellcasting prowess?
Is it the warlock, a spellcaster who has made a deal with a powerful supernatural creature for their might?
or is it the wizard, the consummate studier of magic with more access to magic and spells than any other class?
(sorry no blood hunter)
Let me know what you think! Which class do you think is the best, is it the bard with his jack of all trades, maybe the wizard with all their spells, or maybe even the barbarian with all his health and strength!? Let me know down in the comment section what you guys think and don't forget to fill out the poll!
@JDBausch We are talking about most powerful class overall. Just because a class may be significantly over powered in combat (and some role play scenarios) for 2 out of 20 levels may not make it the best class overall (not trying to hate on druids!).
Power varies so much by situation and even by individual perception of what power entails makes this a hard thing to really quantify.
Many people look at power as ability to defeat combats Some look at power as what they can bring to a role Some look at power as competency across a variety of situations (or lack of weaknesses) Some look at power as competency in a specific aspect (even a mechanical aspect) Some look at power as a frequency of tasks that can be performed Some still look at power as how often the individual aspect (class in this case) shows up in the limelight Some still have yet other definitions.
I'm going to define "powerful" as "who do I think is the top performer between the three categories of Exploration (traps, scouting, knowledge checks), Combat (damage, tanking, healing, buffing, control, AoEs) and Interaction (convincing, bluffing, lie detector, ). I am also going to discount abilities from specific subclasses (ie just because Purple Knights and Samurai get bonuses to Persuasion checks, I won't consider Fighters as a whole to do so), and focus on levels 1-10 primarily, as that's what the majority of games actually play.
So, while the barbarian and fighter are great in combat, quite possibly the two best in that category, they tend to lack out of combat abilities, ending up pretty much near to last in the other two categories. Some people give Intimidation bonuses because "big stronk guy," or roll Strength as the intimidation ability score, but that just gives a foot in the door, no different than someone with a Charisma class. Slightly worse, because of a lack of affinity for anything but intimidation. I am going to rate Barbarians above Fighters, however, simply because Strength (Athletics) is important for dealing with a number of traps, and you can burn a Rage to get ridiculously good at it. Even better if the trap deals damage (take half).
Monks and Rangers do make pretty good scouts and warriors each. Even if the monk is relying entirely on raw Dex/Wis scores, and the ranger's Favored Enemy/Natural Explorer/Primeval Awareness can be unreliable, this does give them a notable showing in both the Combat and Exploration pillars. I feel that Ranger outperforms Monk in terms of Exploration, while the Monk is better at combat, but that depends on how well one sustains Ki and how often rests come, which is hard to judge. Both Ranger and Monk also will likely have Insight, allowing them to have a slight level of Interaction. Between the two, though, I would lean Ranger over Monk as being "more powerful."
Rogue is rated probably the top in Exploration of the non-full-caster classes. Interaction ability.. well, that depends if you went Charisma rogue and took some Expertise in some social skills. Its a popular "build," but I personally find that most rogues end up with some skill in things like disguises and deception, not dumping CHA, and pumping most ASI into DEX (too important of an ability), resulting in a rather not-large difference between the three mental abilities. Combat is... mediocre. Not bad, mind you, but I generally find them to be on the lower end of Combat power.
Paladins get very high ratings from me. They're good in combat - not as outragously good as a fighter or barbarian, but I consider them "better" than a rogue, ranger or monk. Paladins also come with a whole host of "Detect X" magic, letting them be good in scouting as well, and mounts! Pets are always neat (except you beastmaster). Interaction-wise, they're a Charisma heavy class, so they're probably better than just about anyone but the Rogue at interaction, and, though I should note that there's no direct class ability that gives them special privileges, there's kind of a whole noble-aura thing going on, a kind of soft "convincing" bump from generous GMs playing to theme, especially when making oaths or promises for obvious reasons. Happens often enough that I think I have to give a bit of a bump, Interaction score-wise, to the paladin. Now, a lot of this depends on spell slots, and we can burn out fast. In a party, however? Its easier to conserve until needed, and then you shine. Paladins are just a solid class who's abilities all synergize well and can do a lot well.
Now, for casters!
Druids and clerics actually have a lot in common. Well, clerics tend to come with better armor and cantrip/weapon damage, and more buffing options, while druids tend to be far better Explorers thanks to wild shape, and they have more debuffing the enemy options than buffing the party. A cleric will cast Bless on the party, the Druid will cast Faerie Fire on the enemy. Both great help, but debuffs are generally worse than buffs, and the armor makes me feel that clerics should get a better Combat score. Both get Guidance, the best non-combat cantrip in the game, for an okay bump to all non-Combat categories. Clerics have decent divination spells, both in terms of Detect X magics and Augury magics. That said, druids get Wild Shape, which makes them pretty good at scouting, and they can use animals instead of auguries and detection magics. Its hard to say which is better, because they're both pretty close, depending on how the GM runs stuff.
Sorcerers and warlocks are flip sides of the coins, in many ways. Both are Charisma casters with the potential to burn resources on different things, and both have some rather impressive combat options. Hex/agonizing blast is the best sustained damage cantrip in the game, while its hard to argue with a quickend fireball followed by a firebolt to the face. Socially, again Hex makes a play by reducing someone's ability to disagree, while sorcerers Subtle Spell makes it hard for people to realize they've been charmed. Both are Charisma classes, which means they naturally lean towards social interaction. Half of warlocks tend to have familiars (via chain or getting ritual caster), which can be good for scouting, which tends to make me rate warlocks higher than sorcerers as a whole. And I have to rate both below the wizard, I think. The wizard gets more spell slots than both (short rest recovery), gets more Exploration abilities (invisibility, knock, better scrying, swapping out of spells, etc) - actually, the wizard in general is better in Exploration because they're the only INT class, so they can usually be good at important knowledge checks, while sorcerers and warlocks can only be proficent in an off-ability skill, plus all wizard access to familiars as scouts. The wizard doesn't really get much in the way of soft social convincing power, but its hard to argue with things like Charm Person or Suggestion when dealing with non-friendly Interactions. A warlock or sorcerer might pick up one of those, if they have room, but a wizard generally will by nature of how their spellbooks work.
Last is the bard. Bards are... interesting. Skill expertise / jack of all trades makes them slightly less as good as rogues in Exploration. Lots of combat buffing/debuffing/healing options, though lackluster in damage/tanking ability themselves. Magical secrets is amazing, a literal game changer. Probably the single best in Interaction. The worst rating is in Combat, and only if you consider damage/tanking ability. Otherwise a very solid class.
So, for the "very best" I'm going to have to bounce between paladin, rogue, wizard and bard. I'll probably have to drop the rogue for their weak Combat score, bringing their average down. Hmm... I think I'll also have to drop paladin in favor of bard. Takes a while to get to level 10, but Magical Secrets to steal a smite spell or Swift Quiver (or both) puts their weapon damage in range of the paladin, and you can grab some good spells for filling out your weak areas. Wizard has better flexibility than a bard with swapping out spells, but the bard can just get the RIGHT spells they need and be good enough at more areas, and relying on skills for the rest to save slots.
The most powerful class would have to be which ever class I am not playing. that is just the way my luck runs.
My players each think they are playing the most powerful class. In fact the monk players have actually stated that they think their characters are completely OP. I tend to disagree, they just haven't met the real challenges yet.
I don't see how anyone could choose a class other than one of the heavy duty spellcasters. There's just so much utility in them that they can change the whole fight in a heartbeat.
Sorcerers with their Metamagic can completely ruin combat, and a Charisma score being their main makes it so they're pretty good in interacting. Exploration is their weak area, but they can still do it well enough.
9th level spell not 9th level sorcerer, 9th level spells are unlocked at level 18
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”If it is stronger, you must endure and tank its damage. If it is quicker, you must outsmart it. If it is tankier, you must outnumber it. If it is smarter, well then you’re screwed. Feng Draco, Erythnuld hand.
What is the lore behind how the allowed races and classes interact with each other and the game world?
What's the projected level cap?
What type of game are we playing?
How many sessions are we FOR SURE playing and how long are they between Long Rests?
How reliable are the other players?
What kind of gear and items will be in the game?
What variant or house rules are we using?
Who are our opponents?
What obstacle are we supposed to overcome?
What is the rarity of magic in the game?
How deterministic is Alignment in this game?
What kind of DM do we have? Traps? Puzzles? Riddles?
What is the goal of this game?
What are the themes of this game?
Like.. there are many considerations as to which class is the most powerful. These are just off the top of my head. I like Bards the best, because high level Charisma based soft power means you can get people to do what you want without having to lift a finger. However, if we're just kicking down the door at level 2 and smacking the three angry trolls standing around with a jug of fire breath who happen to really, really hate singing, well...
Like, if you're playing Dark Sun or Forgotten Realms, you can have extremely, wildly disparate experiences playing a Dwarf Fighter or an Elf Wizard...
At low levels Bard is considerably less powerful (We never got above level 4 before we wiped on a death slaad we accidentally released), but I have loved my Paladin because he's a caster, healer, and a hell of a tank, and his charisma score makes lots of encounters a lot easier. Diplomacy is definitely underrated.
Most campaigns are short and so ‘most powerful’ has to focus on those levels... let’s so 1-10 (this is a guess). With that in mind, I think Fighter, and I’ll tell you for why:
High health, good armour, weapons, bonus action self-heal and starting with a fighting style: an incredibly flexible starting set which is survivable and damaging (At level 1 when you are most vulnerable).
followed by action surge, one of the best abilities.
Many multi-class fighter for this amazing start, and only as classes are getting into the 6-10 range do I think they overtake the Fighter in terms of combined survivability, damage and flexibility.
I see most votes are wizard, I'm assuming it's because of wish. The thing about that is the spell is very much controlled by the DM. There isn't no limits, but sometimes pretty harsh limits.
I voted cleric, because if they roll high initiative, they can wreck something with low AC by using weapons and maybe a buff spell. Or even if something has a high AC, it might have lower stats against saving throws to spells. While the example I'll use is call lightning, which I think is dex saving throw, they can cast it at 9th level, where tempest cleric simply can maximize the damage. Even just taking 2 levels in fighter, they can get another action to call the storm down again. Also i think 9th level is 9d10, so 90 damage to up to 4 targets at once, and since it's duration, you can keep doing 9d10.
Ranted a little, but tempest cleric made me upset with how strong it is, I don't like to play clerics.
Hello everyone!
Welcome back! Last time I had asked the community what their thoughts were on WoTC coming out with a Greek/Roman mythology themed campaign. Overall it appeared an attractive idea to the D&D Beyond community. If you are curious as to what the results of the poll were, you can check the thread out here: https://www.dndbeyond.com/forums/d-d-beyond-general/general-discussion/14612-what-are-your-thoughts-on-a-greek-roman-mythology
Now on to our topic for today! I was wondering which class you think is the most powerful (this is considering a campaign with balanced battles and role play)?
Is it the barbarian, whose key power is the ability to go into rages?
Is it the bard, with the ability to give comrades inspiration dice and hold their own in light combat?
Is it the cleric, which all have unique features that come from their deity's divine domain?
Is it the druid, with the ability to turn from their natural form into that of particular wild beasts?
Is it the fighter, which is very good at combat?
Is it the monk, an armored martial artist who can fight with bare fists or weapons, and gains a pool of Ki points to fuel various supernatural abilities?
Is it the paladin, a warrior with innate healing abilities?
Is it the ranger, a scout of sorts with spellcasting abilities and knowledge against specific enemies?
Is it the rogue, consummate tricksters with abilities that make them hard to catch in addition to their classic sneak attack?
Is it the sorcerer, who channels the natural magic of their person into spellcasting prowess?
Is it the warlock, a spellcaster who has made a deal with a powerful supernatural creature for their might?
or is it the wizard, the consummate studier of magic with more access to magic and spells than any other class?
(sorry no blood hunter)
Let me know what you think! Which class do you think is the best, is it the bard with his jack of all trades, maybe the wizard with all their spells, or maybe even the barbarian with all his health and strength!? Let me know down in the comment section what you guys think and don't forget to fill out the poll!
Until next time,
Tyrannosary
Certainly at level 2/3 a moon circle Druid has to be considered. Wild shape to a bear at level 2? OP.
Legendary Bundle ~ Master Tier
@JDBausch We are talking about most powerful class overall. Just because a class may be significantly over powered in combat (and some role play scenarios) for 2 out of 20 levels may not make it the best class overall (not trying to hate on druids!).
I don't think that any class is more powerful than any other class. They all have their strengths and weaknesses. They're balanced pretty well.
Professional computer geek
@Tim I agree ;)
Also the poll reflects that pretty well!
Power varies so much by situation and even by individual perception of what power entails makes this a hard thing to really quantify.
Many people look at power as ability to defeat combats
Some look at power as what they can bring to a role
Some look at power as competency across a variety of situations (or lack of weaknesses)
Some look at power as competency in a specific aspect (even a mechanical aspect)
Some look at power as a frequency of tasks that can be performed
Some still look at power as how often the individual aspect (class in this case) shows up in the limelight
Some still have yet other definitions.
- Loswaith
I'm going to define "powerful" as "who do I think is the top performer between the three categories of Exploration (traps, scouting, knowledge checks), Combat (damage, tanking, healing, buffing, control, AoEs) and Interaction (convincing, bluffing, lie detector, ). I am also going to discount abilities from specific subclasses (ie just because Purple Knights and Samurai get bonuses to Persuasion checks, I won't consider Fighters as a whole to do so), and focus on levels 1-10 primarily, as that's what the majority of games actually play.
So, while the barbarian and fighter are great in combat, quite possibly the two best in that category, they tend to lack out of combat abilities, ending up pretty much near to last in the other two categories. Some people give Intimidation bonuses because "big stronk guy," or roll Strength as the intimidation ability score, but that just gives a foot in the door, no different than someone with a Charisma class. Slightly worse, because of a lack of affinity for anything but intimidation. I am going to rate Barbarians above Fighters, however, simply because Strength (Athletics) is important for dealing with a number of traps, and you can burn a Rage to get ridiculously good at it. Even better if the trap deals damage (take half).
Monks and Rangers do make pretty good scouts and warriors each. Even if the monk is relying entirely on raw Dex/Wis scores, and the ranger's Favored Enemy/Natural Explorer/Primeval Awareness can be unreliable, this does give them a notable showing in both the Combat and Exploration pillars. I feel that Ranger outperforms Monk in terms of Exploration, while the Monk is better at combat, but that depends on how well one sustains Ki and how often rests come, which is hard to judge. Both Ranger and Monk also will likely have Insight, allowing them to have a slight level of Interaction. Between the two, though, I would lean Ranger over Monk as being "more powerful."
Rogue is rated probably the top in Exploration of the non-full-caster classes. Interaction ability.. well, that depends if you went Charisma rogue and took some Expertise in some social skills. Its a popular "build," but I personally find that most rogues end up with some skill in things like disguises and deception, not dumping CHA, and pumping most ASI into DEX (too important of an ability), resulting in a rather not-large difference between the three mental abilities. Combat is... mediocre. Not bad, mind you, but I generally find them to be on the lower end of Combat power.
Paladins get very high ratings from me. They're good in combat - not as outragously good as a fighter or barbarian, but I consider them "better" than a rogue, ranger or monk. Paladins also come with a whole host of "Detect X" magic, letting them be good in scouting as well, and mounts! Pets are always neat (except you beastmaster). Interaction-wise, they're a Charisma heavy class, so they're probably better than just about anyone but the Rogue at interaction, and, though I should note that there's no direct class ability that gives them special privileges, there's kind of a whole noble-aura thing going on, a kind of soft "convincing" bump from generous GMs playing to theme, especially when making oaths or promises for obvious reasons. Happens often enough that I think I have to give a bit of a bump, Interaction score-wise, to the paladin. Now, a lot of this depends on spell slots, and we can burn out fast. In a party, however? Its easier to conserve until needed, and then you shine. Paladins are just a solid class who's abilities all synergize well and can do a lot well.
Now, for casters!
Druids and clerics actually have a lot in common. Well, clerics tend to come with better armor and cantrip/weapon damage, and more buffing options, while druids tend to be far better Explorers thanks to wild shape, and they have more debuffing the enemy options than buffing the party. A cleric will cast Bless on the party, the Druid will cast Faerie Fire on the enemy. Both great help, but debuffs are generally worse than buffs, and the armor makes me feel that clerics should get a better Combat score. Both get Guidance, the best non-combat cantrip in the game, for an okay bump to all non-Combat categories. Clerics have decent divination spells, both in terms of Detect X magics and Augury magics. That said, druids get Wild Shape, which makes them pretty good at scouting, and they can use animals instead of auguries and detection magics. Its hard to say which is better, because they're both pretty close, depending on how the GM runs stuff.
Sorcerers and warlocks are flip sides of the coins, in many ways. Both are Charisma casters with the potential to burn resources on different things, and both have some rather impressive combat options. Hex/agonizing blast is the best sustained damage cantrip in the game, while its hard to argue with a quickend fireball followed by a firebolt to the face. Socially, again Hex makes a play by reducing someone's ability to disagree, while sorcerers Subtle Spell makes it hard for people to realize they've been charmed. Both are Charisma classes, which means they naturally lean towards social interaction. Half of warlocks tend to have familiars (via chain or getting ritual caster), which can be good for scouting, which tends to make me rate warlocks higher than sorcerers as a whole. And I have to rate both below the wizard, I think. The wizard gets more spell slots than both (short rest recovery), gets more Exploration abilities (invisibility, knock, better scrying, swapping out of spells, etc) - actually, the wizard in general is better in Exploration because they're the only INT class, so they can usually be good at important knowledge checks, while sorcerers and warlocks can only be proficent in an off-ability skill, plus all wizard access to familiars as scouts. The wizard doesn't really get much in the way of soft social convincing power, but its hard to argue with things like Charm Person or Suggestion when dealing with non-friendly Interactions. A warlock or sorcerer might pick up one of those, if they have room, but a wizard generally will by nature of how their spellbooks work.
Last is the bard. Bards are... interesting. Skill expertise / jack of all trades makes them slightly less as good as rogues in Exploration. Lots of combat buffing/debuffing/healing options, though lackluster in damage/tanking ability themselves. Magical secrets is amazing, a literal game changer. Probably the single best in Interaction. The worst rating is in Combat, and only if you consider damage/tanking ability. Otherwise a very solid class.
So, for the "very best" I'm going to have to bounce between paladin, rogue, wizard and bard. I'll probably have to drop the rogue for their weak Combat score, bringing their average down. Hmm... I think I'll also have to drop paladin in favor of bard. Takes a while to get to level 10, but Magical Secrets to steal a smite spell or Swift Quiver (or both) puts their weapon damage in range of the paladin, and you can grab some good spells for filling out your weak areas. Wizard has better flexibility than a bard with swapping out spells, but the bard can just get the RIGHT spells they need and be good enough at more areas, and relying on skills for the rest to save slots.
Huh. Looks like my last three contenders (bard, paladin, wizard) all are the top three on the poll so far. Funny that.
Sorcerer
The most powerful class would have to be which ever class I am not playing. that is just the way my luck runs.
My players each think they are playing the most powerful class. In fact the monk players have actually stated that they think their characters are completely OP. I tend to disagree, they just haven't met the real challenges yet.
I don't see how anyone could choose a class other than one of the heavy duty spellcasters. There's just so much utility in them that they can change the whole fight in a heartbeat.
Mega Yahtzee Thread:
Highest 41: brocker2001 (#11,285).
Yahtzee of 2's: Emmber (#36,161).
Lowest 9: JoeltheWalrus (#312), Emmber (#12,505) and Dertinus (#20,953).
Sorcerers with their Metamagic can completely ruin combat, and a Charisma score being their main makes it so they're pretty good in interacting. Exploration is their weak area, but they can still do it well enough.
"Halt your wagging and wag your halters, for I am mastercryomancer!"
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9th level spell not 9th level sorcerer, 9th level spells are unlocked at level 18
”If it is stronger, you must endure and tank its damage. If it is quicker, you must outsmart it. If it is tankier, you must outnumber it. If it is smarter, well then you’re screwed. Feng Draco, Erythnuld hand.
What setting is the game set in?
What is the lore behind how the allowed races and classes interact with each other and the game world?
What's the projected level cap?
What type of game are we playing?
How many sessions are we FOR SURE playing and how long are they between Long Rests?
How reliable are the other players?
What kind of gear and items will be in the game?
What variant or house rules are we using?
Who are our opponents?
What obstacle are we supposed to overcome?
What is the rarity of magic in the game?
How deterministic is Alignment in this game?
What kind of DM do we have? Traps? Puzzles? Riddles?
What is the goal of this game?
What are the themes of this game?
Like.. there are many considerations as to which class is the most powerful. These are just off the top of my head. I like Bards the best, because high level Charisma based soft power means you can get people to do what you want without having to lift a finger. However, if we're just kicking down the door at level 2 and smacking the three angry trolls standing around with a jug of fire breath who happen to really, really hate singing, well...
Like, if you're playing Dark Sun or Forgotten Realms, you can have extremely, wildly disparate experiences playing a Dwarf Fighter or an Elf Wizard...
At low levels Bard is considerably less powerful (We never got above level 4 before we wiped on a death slaad we accidentally released), but I have loved my Paladin because he's a caster, healer, and a hell of a tank, and his charisma score makes lots of encounters a lot easier. Diplomacy is definitely underrated.
wrong level 17
While I agree completely with this, my personal favourites are Bards and Monks.
Most campaigns are short and so ‘most powerful’ has to focus on those levels... let’s so 1-10 (this is a guess). With that in mind, I think Fighter, and I’ll tell you for why:
High health, good armour, weapons, bonus action self-heal and starting with a fighting style: an incredibly flexible starting set which is survivable and damaging (At level 1 when you are most vulnerable).
followed by action surge, one of the best abilities.
Many multi-class fighter for this amazing start, and only as classes are getting into the 6-10 range do I think they overtake the Fighter in terms of combined survivability, damage and flexibility.
My allways beloved chars are :
Evokers wizards
Priests/-esses ( Full Support )
Paladins ( Tank/Healer build )
In every game I play I always choose those type of chars, because being a Ranger is always being an "Iniciate of all ..... Master of nothing"
My Ready-to-rock&roll chars:
Dertinus Tristany // Amilcar Barca // Vicenç Sacrarius // Oriol Deulofeu // Grovtuk
I see most votes are wizard, I'm assuming it's because of wish. The thing about that is the spell is very much controlled by the DM. There isn't no limits, but sometimes pretty harsh limits.
I voted cleric, because if they roll high initiative, they can wreck something with low AC by using weapons and maybe a buff spell. Or even if something has a high AC, it might have lower stats against saving throws to spells. While the example I'll use is call lightning, which I think is dex saving throw, they can cast it at 9th level, where tempest cleric simply can maximize the damage. Even just taking 2 levels in fighter, they can get another action to call the storm down again. Also i think 9th level is 9d10, so 90 damage to up to 4 targets at once, and since it's duration, you can keep doing 9d10.
Ranted a little, but tempest cleric made me upset with how strong it is, I don't like to play clerics.
Also known as CrafterB and DankMemer.
Here, have some homebrew classes! Subclasses to? Why not races. Feats, feats as well. I have a lot of magic items. Lastly I got monsters, fun, fun times.