Kiaora All, been DM'ing for about a year now for my 5 players over here in NZ, so i'm still relatively new to it and feeling out my own style etc. We're maybe 20 odd sessions into a long running campaign.
My partys Level 7 Warlock has taken the Summon Greater Demon spell.
I've read up on 3 - 4 decent pages about it and watched a pretty excellent comprehensive video from "Bilbrons & Dragons" YT channel link here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GJ4dmvcPvYc
However I have quite a few unanswered questions about the mechanics of this spell and would love some feedback from the community here.
So the Warlock can give it a verbal command each turn and without a command the demon attacks the nearest non demon target - I'm happy to rule this is a free action each turn. However there's no elaboration on what commands the Warlock can give the demon though its been left completely open..? So I'm guessing pretty much any command is on the table and fair game?
So my questions are: Can the Warlock command it to cast any spell it knows? Which begs the question, does the player get to know beforehand every spell the summond demons have? Would the demon cast a spell without a command or while receiving a different command while under the warlocks control? Do you allow the player to have the demons statsheets up?
Also any ideas on how best to handle the alignment conflict between the Warlock and other characters in the party now?
And if you've got any pro tips / tricks for managing this spell in general from a DM's side I'm keen to hear them.
I thought i had a good understanding of this spell but our first use of it ended up a 30minute debate that I totally could've avoided by asking these questions first and having a good chat with player before hand ugh. We made a ruling on the night but I promised to have it iron'd out for our next session in a few weeks time.
Unfiltered honest advice please, My skin is thick and mind is open. I'll mull over the replies to this thread and discuss with my player before next session.
you can issue a verbal command to it (requiring no action on your part)
The demon is intelligent enough to understand what the warlock wants - but the instruction only lasts for one round, since the summoner has to keep issuing a new command each round.
Yes, the warlock can tell the demon to cast a spell - I wonder if the demon has to be told each round to keep up concentration on the spell (if it requires concentration), because the demon has no real interest in keeping concentrating otherwise.
If not given instructions, the demon can attack a target, as per the spell's instructions, using spells if it so desires (and maybe it would cast fireball to get some of the PCs as well, if they have that spell.)
There isn't any specific alignment change associated with the spell - how the other PCs take the summoning of demons is up for them to resolve between themselves.
I suspect it is easiest for the player to see the statblock for the summoned demon, since they'll have to see a list of demons which they are allowed to summon anyway. But I can't see a reason to let the player know the current hit points of the demon (just a general state of health like they would have for any other creature).
Since the demon has a saving throw every round, I would definitely play the demon as NOT wanting to do the warlock's word, but HAVING to fulfill the instruction purely due to the spell's magical bond.
So the Warlock can give it a verbal command each turn and without a command the demon attacks the nearest non demon target - I'm happy to rule this is a free action each turn.
No. Summon Greater Demon states: "When you summon it and on each of your turns thereafter, you can issue a verbal command to it (requiring no action on your part), telling it what it must do on its next turn. If you issue no command, it spends its turn attacking any creature within reach that has attacked it." It is not a free action to issue a command, it is economyless - and the demon doesn't attack the nearest non-demon, it attacks any creature within reach that has attacked it.
However there's no elaboration on what commands the Warlock can give the demon though its been left completely open..? So I'm guessing pretty much any command is on the table and fair game?
Technically the spell lacks the necessary text to have the demon obey the command given, but you'd have to a real jerk of a DM to deny the caster that ability. However, note that the demon does need to understand the command to obey it, so pay attention to the language used.
So my questions are:
Can the Warlock command it to cast any spell it knows?
Yes.
Which begs the question, does the player get to know beforehand every spell the summond demons have?
Not intrinsically, but you might allow a Religion check for it.
Would the demon cast a spell without a command or while receiving a different command while under the warlocks control?
Sure, provided it doesn't violate the rule requiring that it attack something when not commanded (e.g. if nothing has attacked it, then the rule doesn't compel it at all).
Potentially, depending on the command. The demon interprets its commands as you see fit.
Do you allow the player to have the demons statsheets up?
Probably not, unless they rolled a 30 on the Religion check and you're feeling incredibly generous. That level of knowledge would, under most DMs, require an incredible level of investment (of something - could be downtime and/or money and/or questing for it in-game and/or something else).
Also any ideas on how best to handle the alignment conflict between the Warlock and other characters in the party now?
The spell itself does not introduce an alignment conflict, so I'm not sure how to answer this. In general a problem like what you're describing is the PC's problem, not yours.
And if you've got any pro tips / tricks for managing this spell in general from a DM's side I'm keen to hear them.
I always have demons monkey's paw their orders as much as possible.
Reading these replies, it looks like I might be the odd one out here. For summons in general I usually trust the player to have the stat block prepared and to keep track of their summons. I'm very hands-off for those things. I have a big party, so that might factor into the equation. But as long as they know I have final say in what the summon does (like how a demon doesn't want to be there etc), then that's fine. It also takes a good amount of trust between player and DM, but that's par for the course in dnd.
Kiaora All, been DM'ing for about a year now for my 5 players over here in NZ, so i'm still relatively new to it and feeling out my own style etc. We're maybe 20 odd sessions into a long running campaign.
My partys Level 7 Warlock has taken the Summon Greater Demon spell.
I've read up on 3 - 4 decent pages about it and watched a pretty excellent comprehensive video from "Bilbrons & Dragons" YT channel link here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GJ4dmvcPvYc
However I have quite a few unanswered questions about the mechanics of this spell and would love some feedback from the community here.
So the Warlock can give it a verbal command each turn and without a command the demon attacks the nearest non demon target - I'm happy to rule this is a free action each turn.
However there's no elaboration on what commands the Warlock can give the demon though its been left completely open..? So I'm guessing pretty much any command is on the table and fair game?
So my questions are:
Can the Warlock command it to cast any spell it knows?
Which begs the question, does the player get to know beforehand every spell the summond demons have?
Would the demon cast a spell without a command or while receiving a different command while under the warlocks control?
Do you allow the player to have the demons statsheets up?
Also any ideas on how best to handle the alignment conflict between the Warlock and other characters in the party now?
And if you've got any pro tips / tricks for managing this spell in general from a DM's side I'm keen to hear them.
I thought i had a good understanding of this spell but our first use of it ended up a 30minute debate that I totally could've avoided by asking these questions first and having a good chat with player before hand ugh. We made a ruling on the night but I promised to have it iron'd out for our next session in a few weeks time.
Unfiltered honest advice please, My skin is thick and mind is open. I'll mull over the replies to this thread and discuss with my player before next session.
Thanks!
-The Biggest Baddest Boss.
The demon is intelligent enough to understand what the warlock wants - but the instruction only lasts for one round, since the summoner has to keep issuing a new command each round.
Yes, the warlock can tell the demon to cast a spell - I wonder if the demon has to be told each round to keep up concentration on the spell (if it requires concentration), because the demon has no real interest in keeping concentrating otherwise.
If not given instructions, the demon can attack a target, as per the spell's instructions, using spells if it so desires (and maybe it would cast fireball to get some of the PCs as well, if they have that spell.)
There isn't any specific alignment change associated with the spell - how the other PCs take the summoning of demons is up for them to resolve between themselves.
I suspect it is easiest for the player to see the statblock for the summoned demon, since they'll have to see a list of demons which they are allowed to summon anyway. But I can't see a reason to let the player know the current hit points of the demon (just a general state of health like they would have for any other creature).
Since the demon has a saving throw every round, I would definitely play the demon as NOT wanting to do the warlock's word, but HAVING to fulfill the instruction purely due to the spell's magical bond.
P.S. There is a forum specifically for DMs :)
Yes.
Not intrinsically, but you might allow a Religion check for it.
Probably not, unless they rolled a 30 on the Religion check and you're feeling incredibly generous. That level of knowledge would, under most DMs, require an incredible level of investment (of something - could be downtime and/or money and/or questing for it in-game and/or something else).
The spell itself does not introduce an alignment conflict, so I'm not sure how to answer this. In general a problem like what you're describing is the PC's problem, not yours.
I always have demons monkey's paw their orders as much as possible.
much appreciated team, good advice
Been discussing it with my player, should run smooth next time.
Sorry wasnt sure where to post, I'm not normally one for forums
Reading these replies, it looks like I might be the odd one out here. For summons in general I usually trust the player to have the stat block prepared and to keep track of their summons. I'm very hands-off for those things. I have a big party, so that might factor into the equation. But as long as they know I have final say in what the summon does (like how a demon doesn't want to be there etc), then that's fine. It also takes a good amount of trust between player and DM, but that's par for the course in dnd.
I know what you're thinking: "In that flurry of blows, did he use all his ki points, or save one?" Well, are ya feeling lucky, punk?