The Future of the Open Gaming License (OGL) and D&D

I've spoken to a lot of other people who play D&D, especially DMs, and some are hesistant to cancel their DDB subscriptions because they have active games which they use it for A LOT, mainly those that have Master Tier subscriptions to share content with other players. Having to suddenly find alternatives in the short term can be tricky, and that's exactly the spot I'm in as well.

What I would recommend for anyone who wants to show WotC how they feel and wants to cancel, but is hesistant, is to change your subscription plan to 6 months and then cancel. This will still drop their sub numbers but it'll give you till July to wrap up games and move things off the platform, and even find new TTRPGs to play.

I'll be wrapping up my main campaign in the next few months anyway, and shifting any other games I'm using DDB for onto new platforms, or even new TTRPGs. I really do love this game, but I don't want to be part of a system run by a corporation only concerned with making money and the draining the life & soul of it's community.

And until I can read the new OGL in it's entirety, I won't believe any half baked promises made by a company that has already lost my trust.

If in 6 months, things have turned around and the future looks bright, I might reactivate my license. But until then, I'm out.

#OpenDND

Quote from cdmartinus >>

SNIP!

#OpenDND

 Yea, breaking from DNDB isn't easy. Thx for tips :)

You don't demand contracts to be signed with "drafts". This message is just corporate BS that is just insulting. If they want my money again then the leadership of WOTC must be now removed. As long as the CEO and VP level remain, WOTC cannot and will not be trusted here. I have a book shelf of every source book of 5th edition. I won't pay another dime until and unless leadership is replaced. They are all tainted, and as long as they lead this business, the whole of D&D is poisoned as a result.

Quote from KenMarable >>

The OGL had nothing at all to do with that, however. Updating the OGL does absolutely nothing to prevent that again. It is a distraction. Pure and simple. Don't fall for it.

(And I say this as someone who not only has worked professionally with the OGL since it was released, but also as someone who has done graduate work on racism and bigotry. I assure you, changes to the OGL have no bearing on hateful RPG products. There are actual effective ways for WotC to work against hate and bigotry but OGL changes are not one of them. In fact, undermining the livelihood of hundreds of freelancers would do more direct harm to people of color than any benefit from WotC's doomed to fail attempt at being the industry's racism police.)

It won't prevent racists from being racist, sure, but it makes them a lot easier to fight when they're blatantly violating WotC's license (or better yet, forced to abandon it altogether and go it alone.) As for "undermining the livelihood of hundreds of freelancers," they've removed the provisions that would do those things, so this is just tilting at windmills. Moreover, I have no problem with a 20+ year-old license being changed with the times on a fundamental level, my only objection was to the specific negative provisions in that leak, 2/3 of which have been walked back in their press release. So I'm willing to read 2.0 and see if they're walking their talk. You don't have to.

Quote from HiddenValley >>

• Member Details

Line item number 1 cracks me up. 

 

I'll take "Pandering to the current sociopolitical climate for $500 Alex"

I am not surprised they tried to play the "but INCLUSTIVITY!" card (and if anyone honestly thinks Hasbro of all megacorps gives the slightest damn about that, I have some magic beans you might be interested in purchasing). I will admit though, I didn't think they would be quite as desperate as to play it in their literal opening sentence.

The backlash must be scaring the suits more than anticipated. Good.

Quote from PsyrenXY >>

Quote from KenMarable >>

The OGL had nothing at all to do with that, however. Updating the OGL does absolutely nothing to prevent that again. It is a distraction. Pure and simple. Don't fall for it.

(And I say this as someone who not only has worked professionally with the OGL since it was released, but also as someone who has done graduate work on racism and bigotry. I assure you, changes to the OGL have no bearing on hateful RPG products. There are actual effective ways for WotC to work against hate and bigotry but OGL changes are not one of them. In fact, undermining the livelihood of hundreds of freelancers would do more direct harm to people of color than any benefit from WotC's doomed to fail attempt at being the industry's racism police.)

 

It won't prevent racists from being racist, sure, but it makes them a lot easier to fight when they're blatantly violating WotC's license (or better yet, forced to abandon it altogether and go it alone.) As for "undermining the livelihood of hundreds of freelancers," they've removed the provisions that would do those things, so this is just tilting at windmills. Moreover, I have no problem with a 20+ year-old license being changed with the times on a fundamental level, my only objection was to the specific negative provisions in that leak, 2/3 of which have been walked back in their press release. So I'm willing to read 2.0 and see if they're walking their talk. You don't have to.

 So, even though their response was full of verifiable lies about their intentions, you still think they are owed the benefit of the doubt? Is your dad an executive at Hasbro, or something?

Quote from Hooptiously_Thrangled >>

Quote from PsyrenXY >>

Quote from KenMarable >>

The OGL had nothing at all to do with that, however. Updating the OGL does absolutely nothing to prevent that again. It is a distraction. Pure and simple. Don't fall for it.

(And I say this as someone who not only has worked professionally with the OGL since it was released, but also as someone who has done graduate work on racism and bigotry. I assure you, changes to the OGL have no bearing on hateful RPG products. There are actual effective ways for WotC to work against hate and bigotry but OGL changes are not one of them. In fact, undermining the livelihood of hundreds of freelancers would do more direct harm to people of color than any benefit from WotC's doomed to fail attempt at being the industry's racism police.)

 

It won't prevent racists from being racist, sure, but it makes them a lot easier to fight when they're blatantly violating WotC's license (or better yet, forced to abandon it altogether and go it alone.) As for "undermining the livelihood of hundreds of freelancers," they've removed the provisions that would do those things, so this is just tilting at windmills. Moreover, I have no problem with a 20+ year-old license being changed with the times on a fundamental level, my only objection was to the specific negative provisions in that leak, 2/3 of which have been walked back in their press release. So I'm willing to read 2.0 and see if they're walking their talk. You don't have to.

 So, even though their response was full of verifiable lies about their intentions, you still think they are owed the benefit of the doubt? Is your dad an executive at Hasbro, or something?

 I care about actions, not intentions. And no, the company I work for is actually above Hasbro in the Fortune 500 (not exactly a high bar, but still.)

Quote from PsyrenXY >>

Quote from Hooptiously_Thrangled >>

Quote from PsyrenXY >>

Quote from KenMarable >>

The OGL had nothing at all to do with that, however. Updating the OGL does absolutely nothing to prevent that again. It is a distraction. Pure and simple. Don't fall for it.

(And I say this as someone who not only has worked professionally with the OGL since it was released, but also as someone who has done graduate work on racism and bigotry. I assure you, changes to the OGL have no bearing on hateful RPG products. There are actual effective ways for WotC to work against hate and bigotry but OGL changes are not one of them. In fact, undermining the livelihood of hundreds of freelancers would do more direct harm to people of color than any benefit from WotC's doomed to fail attempt at being the industry's racism police.)

 

It won't prevent racists from being racist, sure, but it makes them a lot easier to fight when they're blatantly violating WotC's license (or better yet, forced to abandon it altogether and go it alone.) As for "undermining the livelihood of hundreds of freelancers," they've removed the provisions that would do those things, so this is just tilting at windmills. Moreover, I have no problem with a 20+ year-old license being changed with the times on a fundamental level, my only objection was to the specific negative provisions in that leak, 2/3 of which have been walked back in their press release. So I'm willing to read 2.0 and see if they're walking their talk. You don't have to.

 So, even though their response was full of verifiable lies about their intentions, you still think they are owed the benefit of the doubt? Is your dad an executive at Hasbro, or something?

 

 I care about actions, not intentions. And no, the company I work for is actually above Hasbro in the Fortune 500 (not exactly a high bar, but still.)

 But their actions were verifiable lies.

Quote from KrispyXIV >>

 

 

 But their actions were verifiable lies.

Despite all the chaos of the last several days, they haven't actually released a new OGL yet. I'll evaluate it when they do, just like everyone else will.

It feels that as the discussion evolves here, it is more and more about their 3 objectives and it becomes kind of a distraction from the main issue: asking 25% of peoples/companies revenues above 750k and owning whatever they publish is is blatantly unacceptable on all levels

That said, it seem that there is many of you here seem to believe that giving them the right to ban someones work for being hateful or discriminatory is something acceptable.

Giving this power to a company that does not own this right due to the perpetual actual OGL and that is getting rid of the word "race" from their book because they think it may lead to "racism" shows that even though the idea feels right for doing so, the result will end up solely on a few people in position to take judgement.  Judgement pass on someone else work using the OGL but not representing D&D.... and thus, they may not be the best to take care of that...

Like i said before, Lord of the Rings Dwarfs and Elves seem pretty clear to me that their story evolved into racism between each other....a few people could decide to rule out that this should be removed from someone else work based on their personal opinion.... Sure it is Lord of the Rings, it is big enough that this will most likely exempt them from any judgment but what about other peoples work.... and thus why i'd rather have a status quo.... it will settle itself anyway...if it is discriminatory, good chances is they won't be making any money and their reviews will be pretty bad... 

Now if they want to put a logo on D&D compatible and approved work to confirm the authenticity on others work (have fun reading), but sure that can be something.  Have others to publish their work as D&D compatible and add something that says, it does not represent D&D as a company, sure that is acceptable.... but to pass judgement on their work....i think the community can do that themselves...

Quote from PsyrenXY >>

Quote from KrispyXIV >>

 

 

 But their actions were verifiable lies.

 

Despite all the chaos of the last several days, they haven't actually released a new OGL yet. I'll evaluate it when they do, just like everyone else will.

 I can only assume your role in that purported Fortune 500 company is largely related to either custodial or catering services, because your defiant trust, as a consumer, in a transparently anti-consumer business whose success you have no stake in, alludes to a very naive understanding of corporate business operations. 

Quote from AngeliusMefyrx >>

It feels that as the discussion evolves here, it is more and more about their 3 objectives and it becomes kind of a distraction from the main issue: asking 25% of peoples/companies revenues above 750k and owning whatever they publish is is blatantly unacceptable on all levels

That said, it seem that there is many of you here seem to believe that giving them the right to ban someones work for being hateful or discriminatory is something acceptable.

 

They removed the first two - and yes, I have no issue with the third.

Quote from Hooptiously_Thrangled >>

Quote from PsyrenXY >>

Quote from KrispyXIV >>

 

 

 But their actions were verifiable lies.

 

Despite all the chaos of the last several days, they haven't actually released a new OGL yet. I'll evaluate it when they do, just like everyone else will.

 I can only assume your role in that purported Fortune 500 company is largely related to either custodial or catering services, because your defiant trust, as a consumer, in a transparently anti-consumer business whose success you have no stake in, alludes to a very naive understanding of corporate business operations. 

Lol, sure thing.

Psyrenxy, i assume you mean your ok with the discriminatory thing.

Remember, 30 years ago, parents were running to get their children out of their school because they were allowing some students to bring MTG cards which included logos of Satan and other stuff....which resulted banning MTG cards in some school.  Not over here in Quebec but we've heard the stories.... Today, we can only be laughting about it but think about it if those parents were the one allowed to take jugment on any work done under the OGL. 

That would be pretty bad, wouldn't it?  All we do is killing monster and humanoid all day...not always bad guys afterall....we are intelligent enought as a species to understand that this does not represent reality...

Quote from AngeliusMefyrx >>

That said, it seem that there is many of you here seem to believe that giving them the right to ban someones work for being hateful or discriminatory is something acceptable.

 

The problem with this is because, as always with these clauses, there is NEVER any ironclad definition of what is "hateful or discriminatory" included in the document. These definitions are always left open ended so the rights holder is left with a giant club to wield. These clauses are little more than a bid for total power hidden behind a very flimsy appeal at emotion. When there is no established definitions of what is "hateful" or whatever, literally anything and everything can be used as an excuse to play this card. We have seen it time and time again.

WotC/Hasbro are not your friends. They are not social justiciars, guiding lights or other exemplars of mortality. Hasbro especially sure as hell don't give the slightest damn about diversity and inclusion. They just know it is a very handy smokescreen to let them get away with BS and this OGL is no different.

Quote from Amulrei >>

Quote from AngeliusMefyrx >>

That said, it seem that there is many of you here seem to believe that giving them the right to ban someones work for being hateful or discriminatory is something acceptable.

 

 

The problem with this is because, as always with these clauses, there is NEVER any ironclad definition of what is "hateful or discriminatory" included in the document. These definitions are always left open ended so the rights holder is left with a giant club to wield. These clauses are little more than a bid for total power hidden behind a very flimsy appeal at emotion. When there is no established definitions of what is "hateful" or whatever, literally anything and everything can be used as an excuse to play this card. We have seen it time and time again.

WotC/Hasbro are not your friends. They are not social justiciars, guiding lights or other exemplars of mortality. Hasbro especially sure as hell don't give the slightest damn about diversity and inclusion. They just know it is a very handy smokescreen to let them get away with BS and this OGL is no different.

 Your first parapraph, i'd agree.  The second paragraph, i'd say that without working for the company itself and having inside information, that you're letting your anger for their new OGL talk which i understand completely...

I work for a company that promotes inclusion.  I have no doubt about it and this was before the recent events.  I think most company today are taking this turn which is a good thing overall but i believe they don't always know how to do that and sometimes leads to bad decisions....

Quote from Amulrei >>

I am not surprised they tried to play the "but INCLUSTIVITY!" card (and if anyone honestly thinks Hasbro of all megacorps gives the slightest damn about that, I have some magic beans you might be interested in purchasing). I will admit though, I didn't think they would be quite as desperate as to play it in their literal opening sentence.

The backlash must be scaring the suits more than anticipated. Good.

I was thinking the same thing. Especially ironic for a company who can't seem to get their own inclusivity guidelines straight. Whats worse is this is something that Wizards has always been able to enforce. Under the original OGL they already had the ability to take down harmful content and copyright infringements. It's disgusting what they are trying to get away with by making an update that acts like we are all too stupid to notice they tried to strongarm creators and steal their money.

Honestly the guys at WoTC trying to back pedal and act like they were always gonna take feedback on this before rolling it out and that everything we saw was drafts is hilarious they litterally sent it out with NDA's attached and gave people a week to sign. News flash guys you don't send legally binding contracts and NDA's with just a draft. Even their own employees are against them, and the post on why they didn't roll it out today is adorable it reads less like an apology and more like an ok you got us **** you now stop canceling your subscriptions we just need you idiots to forget about this. Like how dumb do they think this community is? They're litterally just trying to put it off for as long as possible. They're not fighting mega corporations here like they're claiming to they are the mega corporation trying to find another way to make more money off this community.  Now they either actually fix the OGL like they're claiming they are or lose the dnd community because let's be honest a bunch of pissed off nerds that just need to stop paying for 50 dollar books and play a different ttrpg is the easiest fight to win ever. We lose a game we love sure but it pisses the higher ups at WoTC off and we get to laugh at their desperate attempts to keep us around, and to any WoTC people reading this I hope you go bankrupt for this I love dnd, but if you guys actually go through with this I will really enjoy watching you lose the billion dollar community that dnd is. 

TLDR: The management at WoTC doesn't care about you only your money you're a wallet to them cancel your dnd beyond subscription it's the only language these people speak and don't give these people a cent until a good OGL is confirmed and dnd is free to be used like it should be. 

Quote from Jez1123 >>

Honestly the guys at WoTC trying to back pedal and act like they were always gonna take feedback on this before rolling it out and that everything we saw was drafts is hilarious they litterally sent it out with NDA's attached and gave people a week to sign.  

This is the truth. They tried to do a secret backroom deal to strongarm content creators into handing over their IP and money and we wouldn't have found out until it was way too late. Then they turn around and act like it was all part of a draft? This is egregious behavior.

I feel so personally insulted by how much a lemming they must think I am. Any WOTC employee who reads my messages look at my account, I own every single book here, I'm a whale. You want to monetize things? How about actually making a real update on this website. When was the last time anything changed here besides new dice to buy? How long are things going to be in beta? How many more years will we go without any quality of life updates here? This website looks the same as the day I started my sub four years ago. How about instead of stealing the money from hardworking 3rd party creators you actually do your job here.

Quote from Amulrei >>

The problem with this is because, as always with these clauses, there is NEVER any ironclad definition of what is "hateful or discriminatory" included in the document.

 That's standard enough, you pretty much need a catchall for anything like that. The problem is when you can't even dispute the reasonableness of their decision.

It pains and saddens me that I'm seriously considering giving up my DDB subscription. I run campaigns for my kids with this suite. Half of my sources are digital. Hundreds of bucks just...gone. Because these grabby, gimpy, sludge-munchers want to take all my other content and sell it as their own, and the only reason they finally made a public "Whoops!" has to do with the already massive exodus from their membership (!?).

Big thanks to the actual DDB staff; they've done a great job converting 5e to a digital and mobile format, and it has made myself, and my children, very happy to clear the clutter from our table and get on with the fun!

To WotC, I sincerely hope y'all read these threads. My hope is that you reissue a revision of OGL 1.0a: a copy with some added security for your trademarked work, and its digital/virtual versions. Please keep yo grubby mitts off the backbone of the Homebrew community. We are not your idea generators. Our content is not yours. Our ideas are not yours. Take satisfaction in the millions you make off your sourcebooks and campaigns; and pay your developers, artists, and creators what they're worth.

Don't take what isn't yours.