It's fraught full of lies about their *intent*. Come clean. There is ZERO doubt about what your TRUE intentions were. Lying about it, won't help. Cynthia Williams and Chris Cocks just provided ANOTHER reason they MUST GO!
THANK GOD for VTT and other 3PP creators! Roll that shit back! I love Foundry VTT and at this point, its' the ONLY VTT I plan to use, but I still 100% support all VTT makers. Some of the best content is WITHOUT QUESTION 3PP creators! Choice matters!
The 1.0a is back for 5E, but don't for a second think it's safe. This is WotC SECOND Death Save. They have one more. The first was the 4E / GSL license debacle.
They always planned to solicit community feedback. LIAR! You already sent out contracts with your OGL 1.1 without asking for community feedback!
The only way I trust D&D to be open and safe is two ways:
Update the OGL 1.0a to 1.0b and that guarantees it will never change and is irrevocable!
Or change to the new Open License once it's complete that is being creating by the new #OpenDnD foundation (or whatever it's called) by the community.
OneDnD ABSOLUTELY MUST be licensed under the OGL 1.0b or the new Open License structure referred to earlier, or OneDnD is DOA.
Yeah, given what we've heard thus far - and the tacit admission that the leaks of the 1.1 documents were legit - at the very least the claim that it was a draft is a straight up lie. Those same people said it came with contracts. And we know the value of their word, vs. hasbro/WotC.
seriously...we get you hate what WoTC were trying to do...a lot of us agree. But dont go after other people personally just because they are choosing a different opinion than yours.
as a community, coming together is what made us strong enough to force their hand. splitting up and attacking others literally 20 minutes after they recant is just stupid.
Who didn't understand that royalties on content is exact opposite to open? Who decided that silence was a smart business strategy? The individuals involved in these two things should be fired. They clearly do not understand what it is they have in front of them. I have zero business acumen and even I understand that was cataclysmic.
seriously...we get you hate what WoTC were trying to do...a lot of us agree. But dont go after other people personally just because they are choosing a different opinion than yours.
as a community, coming together is what made us strong enough to force their hand. splitting up and attacking others literally 20 minutes after they recant is just stupid.
First, Who am I going after personally? Go ahead. I'll wait.
Secondly, those same screwballs who will inevitably sing the praises of WOTC/HASBRO over their "candid" response to the fear-mongering, loud-mouthed minority are the same community members who dismissed the early outcry and tried to spin the (very legitimate) concerns of their fellow community members as unwarranted.
it's a blanket...anyone who comes forward with any defense or nice thing to say. you literally say that. you have pre-called them bootlickers and now screwballs.
quit attacking your fellow community members just because they may disagree with you.
So, you're not going to answer the question? Got it.
At any rate, BACK TO THE TOPIC OF THE THREAD, the response is too little too late and very much wanting. It's clear they are in damage control but I doubt this actually helps.
Of course they’re in damage control. But I for one believe that they are/were very concerned about the impact of NFTs were and figured this was an easy end-around to nip that in the bud before someone started making money off of their licence. Which they are wholly allowed to do and SHOULD do.
They ****ed up. They heard from the community. And now they’re attempting to listen to the community. That doesn’t make me a bootlicker, it makes me a realist.
This is how corporations work. If you don’t like it, find a kickstarter and go have fun. There’s nothing wrong with us all enjoying our favorite flavors.
seriously...we get you hate what WoTC were trying to do...a lot of us agree. But dont go after other people personally just because they are choosing a different opinion than yours.
as a community, coming together is what made us strong enough to force their hand. splitting up and attacking others literally 20 minutes after they recant is just stupid.
First, Who am I going after personally? Go ahead. I'll wait.
Secondly, those same screwballs who will inevitably sing the praises of WOTC/HASBRO over their "candid" response to the fear-mongering, loud-mouthed minority are the same community members who dismissed the early outcry and tried to spin the (very legitimate) concerns of their fellow community members as unwarranted.
it's a blanket...anyone who comes forward with any defense or nice thing to say. you literally say that. you have pre-called them bootlickers and now screwballs.
quit attacking your fellow community members just because they may disagree with you.
Wheezal, don't feed the trolls, just report and move on.
OT: There's no benefit to them leaving 1.0a authorized now, ORC is still being worked on. That ship has sailed.
I take DnD Beyond's clarification statement at face value. They're going back to the drawing board, working on it some more, to make it seem less terrible in the eyes of the community. They apologized. They tried to be kind, gracious, and humble toward a community that's spitting a lot of venom.
When someone apologizes and tries to make things right, why not just give them the benefit of the doubt and forgive them?
We've all done wrong, and we all need forgiveness.
They ****ed up. They heard from the community. And now they’re attempting to listen to the community. That doesn’t make me a bootlicker, it makes me a realist.
This will be true AFTER we see a new version of the OGL that appears ready to release that actually doesn't contain the material they're claiming to leave out, AND doesn't include the "30 days notice for changes" and "you can't sue us" provisions they appear to have been silent on.
We won round 1, but don't for a second believe WotC has actually listened until they put up. They don't get that level of trust anymore.
It's the clear lies in the statement that get me. "The thought never crossed our minds." Really? Not a single one of your lawyers or executives noticed a mechanism that would allow you to steal 3rd party content and sell it as your own?
So, you're not going to answer the question? Got it.
At any rate, BACK TO THE TOPIC OF THE THREAD, the response is too little too late and very much wanting. It's clear they are in damage control but I doubt this actually helps.
Of course they’re in damage control. But I for one believe that they are/were very concerned about the impact of NFTs were and figured this was an easy end-around to nip that in the bud before someone started making money off of their licence. Which they are wholly allowed to do and SHOULD do.
They ****ed up. They heard from the community. And now they’re attempting to listen to the community. That doesn’t make me a bootlicker, it makes me a realist.
This is how corporations work. If you don’t like it, find a kickstarter and go have fun. There’s nothing wrong with us all enjoying our favorite flavors.
I disagree that they actually want to listen to the community, their just going to be more careful going forward because they underestimated people's passion and desire to call them out.
I take DnD Beyond's clarification statement at face value. They're going back to the drawing board, working on it some more, to make it seem less terrible in the eyes of the community. They apologized. They tried to be kind, gracious, and humble toward a community that's spitting a lot of venom.
When someone apologizes and tries to make things right, why not just give them the benefit of the doubt and forgive them?
We've all done wrong, and we all need forgiveness.
i wish i had 1/4 the sensibilities you're showing in this moment. but it's so much easier and more fun to just rage! :)
an entire community needs to blow off some steam, as long as it doesn't cross any lines, let em. this has been an emotional and frightening week for all of us who love this hobby.
I take DnD Beyond's clarification statement at face value. They're going back to the drawing board, working on it some more, to make it seem less terrible in the eyes of the community. They apologized. They tried to be kind, gracious, and humble toward a community that's spitting a lot of venom.
When someone apologizes and tries to make things right, why not just give them the benefit of the doubt and forgive them?
We've all done wrong, and we all need forgiveness.
Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice. Shame on me. This is their SECOND epic failure of the exact same sort.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Info, Inflow, Overload. Knowledge Black Hole Imminent!
They ****ed up. They heard from the community. And now they’re attempting to listen to the community. That doesn’t make me a bootlicker, it makes me a realist.
This will be true AFTER we see a new version of the OGL that appears ready to release that actually doesn't contain the material they're claiming to leave out, AND doesn't include the "30 days notice for changes" and "you can't sue us" provisions they appear to have been silent on.
Absolutely. Don’t get me wrong, they definitely issued a legal form and contract thinking “this solves all our problems, and because we have no ill intent *right now* it should be smooth” … and they got burnt for it.
But knowing how corps work, most of what gets put into legal documents are protective, not vindictive. Most of the language is precisely to stop anyone from taking advantage of their IP. Obviously, later iterations of executives will come along and weaponize it for sure, which is what the community could see coming. And they got blasted for it.
I take DnD Beyond's clarification statement at face value. They're going back to the drawing board, working on it some more, to make it seem less terrible in the eyes of the community. They apologized. They tried to be kind, gracious, and humble toward a community that's spitting a lot of venom.
When someone apologizes and tries to make things right, why not just give them the benefit of the doubt and forgive them?
We've all done wrong, and we all need forgiveness.
Remember all the times Lucy promised Charlie Brown she wouldn't pull the football away? Convinced him of it? And every single time she pulled the football away.
DO NOT TRUST THEM! They want us to be placated. We should not be. Unless OGL 1.0a is declared to be irrevocable and we can still use it to create, then it's not acceptable. I won't re-sub to DDB until and unless OGL 1.0a is protected.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Orcs are savage raiders and pillagers with stooped postures, low foreheads, and piggish faces with prominent lower canines that resemble tusks." MM p245 (original printing) You don't OWN your books on DDB: WotC can change them any time. What do you think will happen when OneD&D comes out?
Whatever else may be true, disabling comments on the announcement article should illustrate to any thinking person exactly how interested WotC is in "community feedback."
I invite anyone reading this thread to join me in expressing our respect for the moderator team here at D&D Beyond, who are the very definition of "messengers at risk of being shot," and who do not get paid enough to do the job they've been asked to do over the past week.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
J Great Wyrm Moonstone Dungeon Master
The time of the ORC has come. No OGL without irrevocability; no OGL with 'authorized version' language. #openDND
Practice, practice, practice • Respect the rules; don't memorize them • Be merciless, not cruel • Don't let the dice run the game for you
Who didn't understand that royalties on content is exact opposite to open? Who decided that silence was a smart business strategy? The individuals involved in these two things should be fired. They clearly do not understand what it is they have in front of them. I have zero business acumen and even I understand that was cataclysmic.
Silence being a smart business strategy is how Blizzard handled things for the past 6 years.
Well, for one, because they just lied about their intent instead of actually admitting that they were wrong. They just tried to gaslight us when we all know the truth. You don't take a lie at face value when you know it's a lie.
To deserve forgiveness, they must fully and openly admit fault. They did the opposite. Like a gaslighting narcissist.
Maybe you don't know all the gory details, but one of the big ones is probably why it leaked in the first place. They were going around to a bunch of content creators to get them to agree in exchange for things like reduced rates. For instance, for kickstarter projects, they were going to agree to only taking 20 percent. For another, they were only going to give 3rd party content creators days to decide. This is a clear attempt to back creators into a corner under threat of lawsuit with little time to draft a response, make a decision, or even find a good lawyer.
Don't take a lie at face value. It's a lie. It's an obvious one too. So that makes it a gaslight to anyone who's gone through all the reports and details put out there.
It's fine if that's not you. I was excited for their cool looking vtt. but now I hope they loose big in court.
I agree with you 100%. Looking for the evil intent in what seems like an apology and an intent to change based on community feedback is just continuing to fan the flames. Give them the benefit of the doubt. They're changing it. It's what people wanted. Chill and see what they put out next before continuing this tirade.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
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Link here: https://www.dndbeyond.com/posts/1423-an-update-on-the-open-game-license-ogl
Lets go through this:
Info, Inflow, Overload. Knowledge Black Hole Imminent!
Yeah, given what we've heard thus far - and the tacit admission that the leaks of the 1.1 documents were legit - at the very least the claim that it was a draft is a straight up lie. Those same people said it came with contracts. And we know the value of their word, vs. hasbro/WotC.
seriously...we get you hate what WoTC were trying to do...a lot of us agree. But dont go after other people personally just because they are choosing a different opinion than yours.
as a community, coming together is what made us strong enough to force their hand. splitting up and attacking others literally 20 minutes after they recant is just stupid.
Who didn't understand that royalties on content is exact opposite to open? Who decided that silence was a smart business strategy? The individuals involved in these two things should be fired. They clearly do not understand what it is they have in front of them. I have zero business acumen and even I understand that was cataclysmic.
it's a blanket...anyone who comes forward with any defense or nice thing to say. you literally say that. you have pre-called them bootlickers and now screwballs.
quit attacking your fellow community members just because they may disagree with you.
Of course they’re in damage control. But I for one believe that they are/were very concerned about the impact of NFTs were and figured this was an easy end-around to nip that in the bud before someone started making money off of their licence. Which they are wholly allowed to do and SHOULD do.
They ****ed up. They heard from the community. And now they’re attempting to listen to the community. That doesn’t make me a bootlicker, it makes me a realist.
This is how corporations work. If you don’t like it, find a kickstarter and go have fun. There’s nothing wrong with us all enjoying our favorite flavors.
Wheezal, don't feed the trolls, just report and move on.
OT: There's no benefit to them leaving 1.0a authorized now, ORC is still being worked on. That ship has sailed.
I take DnD Beyond's clarification statement at face value. They're going back to the drawing board, working on it some more, to make it seem less terrible in the eyes of the community. They apologized. They tried to be kind, gracious, and humble toward a community that's spitting a lot of venom.
When someone apologizes and tries to make things right, why not just give them the benefit of the doubt and forgive them?
We've all done wrong, and we all need forgiveness.
This will be true AFTER we see a new version of the OGL that appears ready to release that actually doesn't contain the material they're claiming to leave out, AND doesn't include the "30 days notice for changes" and "you can't sue us" provisions they appear to have been silent on.
We won round 1, but don't for a second believe WotC has actually listened until they put up. They don't get that level of trust anymore.
It's the clear lies in the statement that get me. "The thought never crossed our minds."
Really? Not a single one of your lawyers or executives noticed a mechanism that would allow you to steal 3rd party content and sell it as your own?
I disagree that they actually want to listen to the community, their just going to be more careful going forward because they underestimated people's passion and desire to call them out.
I'd say that makes you more an optimist.
i wish i had 1/4 the sensibilities you're showing in this moment. but it's so much easier and more fun to just rage! :)
an entire community needs to blow off some steam, as long as it doesn't cross any lines, let em. this has been an emotional and frightening week for all of us who love this hobby.
Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice. Shame on me. This is their SECOND epic failure of the exact same sort.
Info, Inflow, Overload. Knowledge Black Hole Imminent!
Well said.
I can't believe they stuck that gaslight in their at the end about their intentions when it was friggin leaked and that leak was confirmed.
Lies and the Lying Liars who tell them. As Franken wrote.
Absolutely. Don’t get me wrong, they definitely issued a legal form and contract thinking “this solves all our problems, and because we have no ill intent *right now* it should be smooth” … and they got burnt for it.
But knowing how corps work, most of what gets put into legal documents are protective, not vindictive. Most of the language is precisely to stop anyone from taking advantage of their IP. Obviously, later iterations of executives will come along and weaponize it for sure, which is what the community could see coming. And they got blasted for it.
I patiently wait to see what they do next.
Remember all the times Lucy promised Charlie Brown she wouldn't pull the football away? Convinced him of it? And every single time she pulled the football away.
DO NOT TRUST THEM! They want us to be placated. We should not be. Unless OGL 1.0a is declared to be irrevocable and we can still use it to create, then it's not acceptable. I won't re-sub to DDB until and unless OGL 1.0a is protected.
"Orcs are savage raiders and pillagers with stooped postures, low foreheads, and piggish faces with prominent lower canines that resemble tusks." MM p245 (original printing)
You don't OWN your books on DDB: WotC can change them any time. What do you think will happen when OneD&D comes out?
Whatever else may be true, disabling comments on the announcement article should illustrate to any thinking person exactly how interested WotC is in "community feedback."
I invite anyone reading this thread to join me in expressing our respect for the moderator team here at D&D Beyond, who are the very definition of "messengers at risk of being shot," and who do not get paid enough to do the job they've been asked to do over the past week.
J
Great Wyrm Moonstone Dungeon Master
The time of the ORC has come. No OGL without irrevocability; no OGL with 'authorized version' language. #openDND
Practice, practice, practice • Respect the rules; don't memorize them • Be merciless, not cruel • Don't let the dice run the game for you
Silence being a smart business strategy is how Blizzard handled things for the past 6 years.
Well, for one, because they just lied about their intent instead of actually admitting that they were wrong. They just tried to gaslight us when we all know the truth. You don't take a lie at face value when you know it's a lie.
To deserve forgiveness, they must fully and openly admit fault. They did the opposite. Like a gaslighting narcissist.
Maybe you don't know all the gory details, but one of the big ones is probably why it leaked in the first place. They were going around to a bunch of content creators to get them to agree in exchange for things like reduced rates. For instance, for kickstarter projects, they were going to agree to only taking 20 percent.
For another, they were only going to give 3rd party content creators days to decide. This is a clear attempt to back creators into a corner under threat of lawsuit with little time to draft a response, make a decision, or even find a good lawyer.
Don't take a lie at face value. It's a lie. It's an obvious one too. So that makes it a gaslight to anyone who's gone through all the reports and details put out there.
It's fine if that's not you. I was excited for their cool looking vtt. but now I hope they loose big in court.
I agree with you 100%. Looking for the evil intent in what seems like an apology and an intent to change based on community feedback is just continuing to fan the flames. Give them the benefit of the doubt. They're changing it. It's what people wanted. Chill and see what they put out next before continuing this tirade.