Who didn't understand that royalties on content is exact opposite to open? Who decided that silence was a smart business strategy? The individuals involved in these two things should be fired. They clearly do not understand what it is they have in front of them. I have zero business acumen and even I understand that was cataclysmic.
Silence being a smart business strategy is how Blizzard handled things for the past 6 years.
Yup. That silence coupled with the "Wait and see.." strategy surrounding their terrible WoW expansions drove a lot of people away permanently.
Who didn't understand that royalties on content is exact opposite to open? Who decided that silence was a smart business strategy? The individuals involved in these two things should be fired. They clearly do not understand what it is they have in front of them. I have zero business acumen and even I understand that was cataclysmic.
Silence being a smart business strategy is how Blizzard handled things for the past 6 years.
Blizzard is in a death spiral. Just saying...
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Info, Inflow, Overload. Knowledge Black Hole Imminent!
as a community, coming together is what made us strong enough to force their hand. splitting up and attacking others literally 20 minutes after they recant is just stupid.
Everybody keep this in mind. It's one of the truest things I've seen said during this entire OGL debacle.
I take DnD Beyond's clarification statement at face value. They're going back to the drawing board, working on it some more, to make it seem less terrible in the eyes of the community. They apologized. They tried to be kind, gracious, and humble toward a community that's spitting a lot of venom.
When someone apologizes and tries to make things right, why not just give them the benefit of the doubt and forgive them?
We've all done wrong, and we all need forgiveness.
A PR statement isn't a copy of the official document.
Now is not the time to cave. That is what this kind of rhetoric is designed to do; assuage the ire of the masses and attempt to mollify you as they continue their nefarious plan. So, now they have to find language to better deflect and obfuscate the real intent of their new license.
They didn't address, at all, the provision allowing them to change the terms with a mere 30 days notice, or state what measures they'll take to ensure they can't be evil in the future.
Without addressing those issues, whatever they're writing up is still a poison pill.
They didn't address, at all, the provision allowing them to change the terms with a mere 30 days notice, or state what measures they'll take to ensure they can't be evil in the future.
Without addressing those issues, whatever they're writing up is still a poison pill.
I agree, the 30 days notice change is still the most concerning provision that they haven't spoken on. If that stays, I'll be gone.
If they fix everything and release a perpetual and irrevocable OGL, then we can talk about forgiving them.
Until we see something concrete, we don't let up. It's far too easy for them to just slither out of promises they make in a PR statement. This gets fixed by actual change, not just saying "We've changed our minds, honest!" alongside a liberal dose of gaslighting. PR statements in this situation are worth exactly as much as the contract that they are attached to and not a shred more. Forgiveness has a place, but it's after we have ironclad protections in place, not before.
I take DnD Beyond's clarification statement at face value. They're going back to the drawing board, working on it some more, to make it seem less terrible in the eyes of the community. They apologized. They tried to be kind, gracious, and humble toward a community that's spitting a lot of venom.
When someone apologizes and tries to make things right, why not just give them the benefit of the doubt and forgive them?
We've all done wrong, and we all need forgiveness.
What they posted here isn't an apology going back to the drawing board. It's a bad faith deflection that flatly denies basic truths. Drafts don't come with contacts. Kickstarter's statement made it clear they had already negotiated with WotC about the royalties and percentages. The FAQ from their canceled announcement yesterday also proves they have malicious intention with their denials in this post, because no where in this statement do they deny that they still plan to deauthorize the 1.0a OGL.
First they came for MTG. Now it's D&D. I bailed on MTG two years ago over it's issues; I bailed on D&D this week for another TTRPG because I don't have the trust for this company anymore.
Beccareth is right - I think it's too little too late. It's just damage control. The response posted this morning is fraught with lies and walk-backs, and an attempt to appeal to a sense that they are trying to do something benevolent and "do right" by their player base. They aren't. They were ready to drop this new OGL on the community this week - it most certainly wasn't a "rough draft." Given the track record of them moving forward with how MTG fell into shambles, I expect they will do the same here - ie, attempt to monetize as much as possible behind the guises they see fit to throw up. Guises like the response post made this morning. Put more simply, they'll do whatever they can get away with while making the most money. The current leadership stresses a new goal (the bottom line) above all else. If you've listened to the Hasbro financial meetings of late, this becomes apparent. The paradigm has shifted.
I also feel for the people who work in the company that may be having a hard time seeing this unfold in front of them. I imagine there are a slew of employees who are watching this in terror, unable to affect much change from the management. I think it's important to understand that this has been a decision from the top of the company - the people who build the stuff we love aren't the ones who have done this, so don't hate on them. Many are lamenting with us.
So... what does this mean for us? Well, we have a choice. I suspect most of the players and DMs that are paying close enough attention to this to really see what is going on are the ones who may go elsewhere. But the average and/or casual player may very well find convenience in the integrated experience that Wizards is trying to cultivate with One D&D and their new VTT. I think that's the crux of it here - they want to eliminate competition and funnel players into their toolsets, thus monetizing them. In all likeliness, they will still attempt to do that down the road.
Wizards may have lost this week, but they haven't lost overall. They may have lost in some of our minds, but not in everyone's. Many people won't care - or even know - and continue to play the game and pay into it anyways. Everyone's got their opinion and their right to make their decision. What I will say on a personal level is this: It is very disappointing to see two of my most favorite games, which I've played for 20+ years each, fall into ruin over the attempt to abuse players and its surrounding community from a financial standpoint.
But that's just me. Others have a right to dissent, and they are justified in spending their money how they see fit. Vote with your wallet. Either way, play what you enjoy.
The response is bullshit. Transparently made up for the purpose backtracking bullshit.
Do they think their audience are Children?
I'm 62 years old. An experienced, educated adult that has been playing D&D since 1978. I'm perfectly capable of smelling bullshit, especially when someone hit me in the face with a cold, wet patty.
I just canceled my 1-year Top Tier subscription. They have until it runs out at the end of May to make thing right, or they lose a 45 year veteran who's been buying D&D Products since well before WotC.
That pretty much sums it up ,, Another company who think if they shout it loud enough and long enough that it will gain traction and become "the truth".
It's almost as if these muppets don't know that some of us have been splitting hairs about RAI and RAW for 30 years... and know the difference between PR damage control stunts and actual legally binding text
"First, we wanted the ability to prevent the use of D&D content from being included in hateful and discriminatory products."
Can anyone link me a single product that act in an hateful and discriminatory behavior over the past 20 years using the OGL?
I'm really getting tired of those people infatuating themselves fighting racist in their mind having each one of them a different degree of tolerance. Let me put it this way. Does racist belongs in the perfect world, no. Is racist going to disappear completely, i don't believe so. The perfect example is Lord of the Ring. Dwarfs and Elves hates each other to a degree that we can call this racism. Although, you come to learn how it all started and it creates stories and plot hooks and so on.... you end up building your world around this hate. Would someone be able to come here and vomit out that Lord of the Ring promotes racism in their own point of view because it promotes "hate" between 2 races? Could someone roleplay a racist character or a GM put some racist NPC in the way.....not that it interest me having a player constantly on hate mode but it could easily create encounters that could be fun...actually i might create some racist encounter due to the backstory of a player
In the end, if the product promotes hate and discrimination, I don't believe it will sell well and will die on its own... but wanting to mold each creators content to your own image, no you should not have the ability to do that. I've seen more than a few post about people objecting to the change of the word race already which comes to see the difference of point of view.
"And third, we wanted to ensure that the OGL is for the content creator, the homebrewer, the aspiring designer, our players, and the community—not major corporations to use for their own commercial and promotional purpose."
Really, your going to try to make us believe that?. Their 750k is not profit, it is revenue...its nothing if you have to pay for 300k of material and another 400k to pay your labor... Nevertheless, the permanent OGL 1.0a was there to help each companies out to survive and thrive together, not for you to decide who's going to thrive... Maybe you (Hasbro) should have applied the same logic as your core brands....50 millions before it gets relevant....even though that is pointless considering my previous sentence...
"First, we wanted the ability to prevent the use of D&D content from being included in hateful and discriminatory products."
Thier #1 priority is to silence anyone with whom they disagree. Sounds familiar doesn't it?
These are people who deny the existence of good and evil so it comes as no surprise that they're adept liars who have no problems lying to the public.
I'm convinced that the problem is deeper than I originally thought. I'm also a successful 40 something who has no problem spending $200/month on WoTC products (MTG, DnD, etc.) but those days are over.
Yup. That silence coupled with the "Wait and see.." strategy surrounding their terrible WoW expansions drove a lot of people away permanently.
Blizzard is in a death spiral. Just saying...
Info, Inflow, Overload. Knowledge Black Hole Imminent!
Everybody keep this in mind. It's one of the truest things I've seen said during this entire OGL debacle.
Please do not contact or message me.
A PR statement isn't a copy of the official document.
Now is not the time to cave. That is what this kind of rhetoric is designed to do; assuage the ire of the masses and attempt to mollify you as they continue their nefarious plan. So, now they have to find language to better deflect and obfuscate the real intent of their new license.
The long and short of it is this.
They didn't address, at all, the provision allowing them to change the terms with a mere 30 days notice, or state what measures they'll take to ensure they can't be evil in the future.
Without addressing those issues, whatever they're writing up is still a poison pill.
I agree, the 30 days notice change is still the most concerning provision that they haven't spoken on. If that stays, I'll be gone.
If they fix everything and release a perpetual and irrevocable OGL, then we can talk about forgiving them.
Until we see something concrete, we don't let up. It's far too easy for them to just slither out of promises they make in a PR statement. This gets fixed by actual change, not just saying "We've changed our minds, honest!" alongside a liberal dose of gaslighting.
PR statements in this situation are worth exactly as much as the contract that they are attached to and not a shred more. Forgiveness has a place, but it's after we have ironclad protections in place, not before.
What they posted here isn't an apology going back to the drawing board. It's a bad faith deflection that flatly denies basic truths. Drafts don't come with contacts. Kickstarter's statement made it clear they had already negotiated with WotC about the royalties and percentages. The FAQ from their canceled announcement yesterday also proves they have malicious intention with their denials in this post, because no where in this statement do they deny that they still plan to deauthorize the 1.0a OGL.
First they came for MTG. Now it's D&D. I bailed on MTG two years ago over it's issues; I bailed on D&D this week for another TTRPG because I don't have the trust for this company anymore.
Beccareth is right - I think it's too little too late. It's just damage control. The response posted this morning is fraught with lies and walk-backs, and an attempt to appeal to a sense that they are trying to do something benevolent and "do right" by their player base. They aren't. They were ready to drop this new OGL on the community this week - it most certainly wasn't a "rough draft." Given the track record of them moving forward with how MTG fell into shambles, I expect they will do the same here - ie, attempt to monetize as much as possible behind the guises they see fit to throw up. Guises like the response post made this morning. Put more simply, they'll do whatever they can get away with while making the most money. The current leadership stresses a new goal (the bottom line) above all else. If you've listened to the Hasbro financial meetings of late, this becomes apparent. The paradigm has shifted.
I also feel for the people who work in the company that may be having a hard time seeing this unfold in front of them. I imagine there are a slew of employees who are watching this in terror, unable to affect much change from the management. I think it's important to understand that this has been a decision from the top of the company - the people who build the stuff we love aren't the ones who have done this, so don't hate on them. Many are lamenting with us.
So... what does this mean for us? Well, we have a choice. I suspect most of the players and DMs that are paying close enough attention to this to really see what is going on are the ones who may go elsewhere. But the average and/or casual player may very well find convenience in the integrated experience that Wizards is trying to cultivate with One D&D and their new VTT. I think that's the crux of it here - they want to eliminate competition and funnel players into their toolsets, thus monetizing them. In all likeliness, they will still attempt to do that down the road.
Wizards may have lost this week, but they haven't lost overall. They may have lost in some of our minds, but not in everyone's. Many people won't care - or even know - and continue to play the game and pay into it anyways. Everyone's got their opinion and their right to make their decision. What I will say on a personal level is this: It is very disappointing to see two of my most favorite games, which I've played for 20+ years each, fall into ruin over the attempt to abuse players and its surrounding community from a financial standpoint.
But that's just me. Others have a right to dissent, and they are justified in spending their money how they see fit. Vote with your wallet. Either way, play what you enjoy.
The response is bullshit.
Transparently made up for the purpose backtracking bullshit.
Do they think their audience are Children?
I'm 62 years old. An experienced, educated adult that has been playing D&D since 1978.
I'm perfectly capable of smelling bullshit, especially when someone hit me in the face with a cold, wet patty.
I just canceled my 1-year Top Tier subscription.
They have until it runs out at the end of May to make thing right, or they lose a 45 year veteran who's been buying D&D Products since well before WotC.
Absolute Bullshit.
I think it’s eh… the whole thing.
That pretty much sums it up ,, Another company who think if they shout it loud enough and long enough that it will gain traction and become "the truth".
Exactly. I don't even want OGL 1.0a anymore. I want a license that is controlled by a Foundation for Open Gaming and then WotC can apply THAT license.
Otherwise, D&D can go off and die.
Info, Inflow, Overload. Knowledge Black Hole Imminent!
It's almost as if these muppets don't know that some of us have been splitting hairs about RAI and RAW for 30 years...
and know the difference between PR damage control stunts and actual legally binding text
The ORC won't be able to keep them out, that's the whole point. Having their own updated license still makes sense.
What a steaming pile of excrement this response was. those weren't drafts they were leaked contracts. i feel so done with Wotc
This feel like the right song for this whole fiasco
"First, we wanted the ability to prevent the use of D&D content from being included in hateful and discriminatory products."
Can anyone link me a single product that act in an hateful and discriminatory behavior over the past 20 years using the OGL?
I'm really getting tired of those people infatuating themselves fighting racist in their mind having each one of them a different degree of tolerance. Let me put it this way. Does racist belongs in the perfect world, no. Is racist going to disappear completely, i don't believe so. The perfect example is Lord of the Ring. Dwarfs and Elves hates each other to a degree that we can call this racism. Although, you come to learn how it all started and it creates stories and plot hooks and so on.... you end up building your world around this hate. Would someone be able to come here and vomit out that Lord of the Ring promotes racism in their own point of view because it promotes "hate" between 2 races? Could someone roleplay a racist character or a GM put some racist NPC in the way.....not that it interest me having a player constantly on hate mode but it could easily create encounters that could be fun...actually i might create some racist encounter due to the backstory of a player
In the end, if the product promotes hate and discrimination, I don't believe it will sell well and will die on its own... but wanting to mold each creators content to your own image, no you should not have the ability to do that. I've seen more than a few post about people objecting to the change of the word race already which comes to see the difference of point of view.
"And third, we wanted to ensure that the OGL is for the content creator, the homebrewer, the aspiring designer, our players, and the community—not major corporations to use for their own commercial and promotional purpose."
Really, your going to try to make us believe that?. Their 750k is not profit, it is revenue...its nothing if you have to pay for 300k of material and another 400k to pay your labor... Nevertheless, the permanent OGL 1.0a was there to help each companies out to survive and thrive together, not for you to decide who's going to thrive... Maybe you (Hasbro) should have applied the same logic as your core brands....50 millions before it gets relevant....even though that is pointless considering my previous sentence...
"First, we wanted the ability to prevent the use of D&D content from being included in hateful and discriminatory products."
Thier #1 priority is to silence anyone with whom they disagree. Sounds familiar doesn't it?
These are people who deny the existence of good and evil so it comes as no surprise that they're adept liars who have no problems lying to the public.
I'm convinced that the problem is deeper than I originally thought. I'm also a successful 40 something who has no problem spending $200/month on WoTC products (MTG, DnD, etc.) but those days are over.
Major/Fortune 500 corporations care about their image, stop the presses.