Dnd’s Evolution

Quote from OSR4Ever >>

Quote from Caerwyn_Glyndwr >>

 

The AD&D DMG, as was very clear from the context in which we were talking about the AD&D DMG.

 
I think you missed the point of the question, I understand its in the DMG.  The DMG is the book players were never allowed to read, it was strictly for the DM.  Aka, everything in there is for the DM, they decide what rules are executed, when they are executed, how they are executed and who rolls the dice when they are executed.

 I have to admit, until now I'd always assumed that Paranoia's "The rules are classified; any player demonstrating knowledge of the rules is confessing to treason" was sui generis. It appears I was wrong.

Quote from TheGnome5786 >>

Quote from OSR4Ever >>

   I mean I never met anyone in 35+ of playing 1e that used speed factors for example, I actually to this day don't actually understand how its supposed to work.

 From what I remember lowest initiative went first.
Rounds were broken up into segments to accommodate speed factors. 20 segments to a round.
The speed factor was how fast your specific weapon could be used. Fists were the fastest and pole arms the slowest.
You would add the speed factor of the weapon to the initiative role, thus slowing down your attack to later in the round.
in some cases you could make multiple attacks with a faster weapon in a round, or actually not make an attack with a very slow weapon until the next round, thus only attacking with that long slow pole arm every other round.

 

Just like now though after the first round it rarely mattered who had initiative. Just who goes before you and after you.

 
ThIs is exactly how it worked -- except that it could change if the character switched weapons (shifting their place in the initiative order)

In OSR's favor, I used to drive folks nuts because I was one of the folks who did use speed factors in all my open games.  people would get really mad when their time to use a Maul came around after everyone else, even though they had rolled a 2 for initiative...

 EDIT: THACO was a 2e element, not a 1e element. THACO was almost an inversion in some ways, and it significantly changed the combat tables from 1e (where each class had its own table, even though those were simplified for 2e).

Second Edit:

I should note, for those wondering, that the vast majority of players never followed the DM's Permission kind of rule. Like ever. Not even within TSR did folks playing the AD&D games follow that, except, of course, for that guy.  And even that guy stopped doing it by 82, even in his own games -- because while he never had a hard time finding players for conventions and the like, he did have a hard time otherwise, and the official competition rules overruled that.

It is a fun point to bring up, but in practical reality, it never worked.

Related, I never knew many people who followed the spell rules for 1e. I think in the early years, I ran into maybe a half dozen folks out of hundreds?

Yet, in this century, my group and I brought that rule back, especially for 5e, because it has an incredibly key aspect in balancing the power of spell versus martial types, and it also has significant impact on our sandbox style of campaign (as I was just reminded, since the entire party just left the ToA in order to go get a spell for the Wizard that they chose not to accept before, and now have planned to return to it later. Is it unfair of me to whine about how I hate my players sometimes?)...