There are so many awesome options if you want to play a spooky character in the 2014 version of D&D. Grave clerics, Shadow sorcerers, Monster Slayer rangers and College of Spirits bards to name just a few.
It's sad that none of these made the cut for 2024.
All of those subclasses will be compatible with OneD&D - you will be able to play with the 2024 cleric rules and still use the Grave Cleric subclass.
Also, there are some spooky subclasses making the cut—Gloomstalker, for example. So, just because the subclasses you listed did not make the revised PHB shortlist, that should not be read to think Wizards is moving away from “spooky”—spooky is here to stay, just not everything could be included in one book.
They’re not going away. None were in the original 2014 PHB, which is the only book with subclasses that’s being rewritten. Exactly how they’ll be playable isn’t 100% clear yet. It might be that they remain options to use with the 2014 version of the base characters or WotC might publish some basic rules for adapting older subclasses to the 2024 version. They might well publish newer versions in a future sourcebook.
They did decide to keep the levels at which new subclass features are gained the same as the 2014 version (having explored all subclasses gaining their later features at levels 6, 10 and 14) with the explicit intention to maintain compatibility with pre-2024 subclasses. (The only change with levels is that all classes gain their first subclass features at level 3.)
All of those subclasses will be compatible with OneD&D - you will be able to play with the 2024 cleric rules and still use the Grave Cleric subclass.
Also, there are some spooky subclasses making the cut—Gloomstalker, for example. So, just because the subclasses you listed did not make the revised PHB shortlist, that should not be read to think Wizards is moving away from “spooky”—spooky is here to stay, just not everything could be included in one book.
The only “spooky” subclass that doesn’t seem to have made it from the 2014 to the 2024 PHB is the Necromancer. The Gloomstalker has been brought in from Xanathar’s Guide. The Way of Shadows monk and the Assassin fit the spooky theme, as does the Fiend Warlock. If you extend the spookiness theme to include Lovecraftian horror, the GOO Warlock and the Aberrant Sorcerer could be included.
None of those subclasses were included in the 2014 PHB. As noted The Gloomstalker is apparently being brought into the PHB, so if anything the 2024 iteration of 5e is going to have "more gloom" in its core than the 2014 iteration.
I wouldn't presume every subclass not appearing in the new PHB has been "cut" from consideration in future products. The new core will be supported by new books or products over time just like the 2014 one, and including sub classes is one way to broaden interest in a book.
I was hoping 2014 would be a "consolidated" edition with all the subclasses etc., but that's not the case. That said, it looks like with the exception of the Wizard and maybe the Cleric, most classes are starting out with more subclass options than they did in the 2014 PHB. But I think we need to recognize that the 2024 books are, to my perception at least, being shaped as an introduction, or first book to the game. As such, character options are going to be more broad based in tone over more narrow tonal foci like "grim dark" or "gothic" or whatever. Maybe the spooky will be packed into some sort of "Dark Archive" type book Halloween 2025 or later, and I picked that date to highlight the fact that WotC is playing a longer game with a its product line than everything all at once.
All of those subclasses will be compatible with OneD&D - you will be able to play with the 2024 cleric rules and still use the Grave Cleric subclass.
Not entirely sure you'll be able to mix base class and subclass features between 2014 and 2024- for instance, Divine Strike and Potent Spellcasting got moved from subclass to main class features on the UA Cleric, so by printed effects you'd be double-dipping those if you combine 2014 Grave Cleric with 2024 base Cleric- but the 2014 options should still be valid at the same table as 2024 options, and individual tables can work out a combination/middle ground if they want.
All of those subclasses will be compatible with OneD&D - you will be able to play with the 2024 cleric rules and still use the Grave Cleric subclass.
Not entirely sure you'll be able to mix base class and subclass features between 2014 and 2024- for instance, Divine Strike and Potent Spellcasting got moved from subclass to main class features on the UA Cleric, so by printed effects you'd be double-dipping those if you combine 2014 Grave Cleric with 2024 base Cleric- but the 2014 options should still be valid at the same table as 2024 options, and individual tables can work out a combination/middle ground if they want.
I have been mixing old subclasses and the UA content during this playtest period and have never had a single issue or a single one of my players (including one who is new and almost always seems to have an issue with rules) get confused by it. There might be some weird hiccups, but those seem to be fairly few and far between (other than some of the feature level rearranging).
All told, and based on the UA and my experiences therewith, I do not anticipate anyone will have a real problem making 2014 subclasses work with 2024 classes. To the extent there might be some growing pains, this strikes me as one of those “problems” I expect will be raised more by folks trying to paint 2024 as a failure or as delivering broken promises… while the majority of players just happily keep on playing and intuitively figure out the answer.
not every type of character or concept needs to be in the player's handbook (there will be other books to update other subclasses or print new ones)
As other posters in both threads have pointed out to you, there are multiple subclasses slated for the PHB this year that count as spooky, creepy, dark or whatever other adjective you want to use.
All of those subclasses will be compatible with OneD&D - you will be able to play with the 2024 cleric rules and still use the Grave Cleric subclass.
Not entirely sure you'll be able to mix base class and subclass features between 2014 and 2024- for instance, Divine Strike and Potent Spellcasting got moved from subclass to main class features on the UA Cleric, so by printed effects you'd be double-dipping those if you combine 2014 Grave Cleric with 2024 base Cleric- but the 2014 options should still be valid at the same table as 2024 options, and individual tables can work out a combination/middle ground if they want.
I have been mixing old subclasses and the UA content during this playtest period and have never had a single issue or a single one of my players (including one who is new and almost always seems to have an issue with rules) get confused by it. There might be some weird hiccups, but those seem to be fairly few and far between (other than some of the feature level rearranging).
All told, and based on the UA and my experiences therewith, I do not anticipate anyone will have a real problem making 2014 subclasses work with 2024 classes. To the extent there might be some growing pains, this strikes me as one of those “problems” I expect will be raised more by folks trying to paint 2024 as a failure or as delivering broken promises… while the majority of players just happily keep on playing and intuitively figure out the answer.
I’m not saying it’s unworkable, just pointing out that 2014 subs on 2024 main classes and vice versa aren’t designed to slot together perfectly.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
There are so many awesome options if you want to play a spooky character in the 2014 version of D&D. Grave clerics, Shadow sorcerers, Monster Slayer rangers and College of Spirits bards to name just a few.
It's sad that none of these made the cut for 2024.
Let the Mists surround you...
All of those subclasses will be compatible with OneD&D - you will be able to play with the 2024 cleric rules and still use the Grave Cleric subclass.
Also, there are some spooky subclasses making the cut—Gloomstalker, for example. So, just because the subclasses you listed did not make the revised PHB shortlist, that should not be read to think Wizards is moving away from “spooky”—spooky is here to stay, just not everything could be included in one book.
They’re not going away. None were in the original 2014 PHB, which is the only book with subclasses that’s being rewritten. Exactly how they’ll be playable isn’t 100% clear yet. It might be that they remain options to use with the 2014 version of the base characters or WotC might publish some basic rules for adapting older subclasses to the 2024 version. They might well publish newer versions in a future sourcebook.
They did decide to keep the levels at which new subclass features are gained the same as the 2014 version (having explored all subclasses gaining their later features at levels 6, 10 and 14) with the explicit intention to maintain compatibility with pre-2024 subclasses. (The only change with levels is that all classes gain their first subclass features at level 3.)
The only “spooky” subclass that doesn’t seem to have made it from the 2014 to the 2024 PHB is the Necromancer. The Gloomstalker has been brought in from Xanathar’s Guide. The Way of Shadows monk and the Assassin fit the spooky theme, as does the Fiend Warlock. If you extend the spookiness theme to include Lovecraftian horror, the GOO Warlock and the Aberrant Sorcerer could be included.
None of those subclasses were included in the 2014 PHB. As noted The Gloomstalker is apparently being brought into the PHB, so if anything the 2024 iteration of 5e is going to have "more gloom" in its core than the 2014 iteration.
I wouldn't presume every subclass not appearing in the new PHB has been "cut" from consideration in future products. The new core will be supported by new books or products over time just like the 2014 one, and including sub classes is one way to broaden interest in a book.
I was hoping 2014 would be a "consolidated" edition with all the subclasses etc., but that's not the case. That said, it looks like with the exception of the Wizard and maybe the Cleric, most classes are starting out with more subclass options than they did in the 2014 PHB. But I think we need to recognize that the 2024 books are, to my perception at least, being shaped as an introduction, or first book to the game. As such, character options are going to be more broad based in tone over more narrow tonal foci like "grim dark" or "gothic" or whatever. Maybe the spooky will be packed into some sort of "Dark Archive" type book Halloween 2025 or later, and I picked that date to highlight the fact that WotC is playing a longer game with a its product line than everything all at once.
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
Not entirely sure you'll be able to mix base class and subclass features between 2014 and 2024- for instance, Divine Strike and Potent Spellcasting got moved from subclass to main class features on the UA Cleric, so by printed effects you'd be double-dipping those if you combine 2014 Grave Cleric with 2024 base Cleric- but the 2014 options should still be valid at the same table as 2024 options, and individual tables can work out a combination/middle ground if they want.
I have been mixing old subclasses and the UA content during this playtest period and have never had a single issue or a single one of my players (including one who is new and almost always seems to have an issue with rules) get confused by it. There might be some weird hiccups, but those seem to be fairly few and far between (other than some of the feature level rearranging).
All told, and based on the UA and my experiences therewith, I do not anticipate anyone will have a real problem making 2014 subclasses work with 2024 classes. To the extent there might be some growing pains, this strikes me as one of those “problems” I expect will be raised more by folks trying to paint 2024 as a failure or as delivering broken promises… while the majority of players just happily keep on playing and intuitively figure out the answer.
Didn't you recently make a previous thread about this?
I'll repeat what I said then:
Oops...
Let the Mists surround you...
I’m not saying it’s unworkable, just pointing out that 2014 subs on 2024 main classes and vice versa aren’t designed to slot together perfectly.