I think it's fine to point out that Starter Sets exist as many people still play D&D "tangibly" with physical maps and dice and sheets etc, and the Starter Sets are there for that. It's also really easy in that same conversation to point out that D&D has a number of official entry or starter appropriate products available. I think the buyer's guide on this forum even does that.
At first I was hoping 50th anniversary core was going to be a "consolidated edition"; but that's not what we're getting, and having messed around a bit with Pathfinder's remastered core, I think I get it. There are starter products, then there are core products, then there is expansion content. Two of my favorite games' starter sets (Alien and Delta Green) give a GM the ability to run any published scenario just with the starter box (both publishers for example publish stat blocks in scenarios for any content not in those starter books, simple character generation is provided in the starter or pregens are provided in published scenarios, etc). Core books allow a GM to design their own scenarios, or entire game worlds. Both have books with options for game play and characters beyond the "core" of the game. D&D could probably do a better job of producing a starter set that would allow players to play through published campaigns, but the core books are the core of the system that should give a DM and players enough to do what they want with the game. Supplemental books are just that. And to be fair, we are seeing consolidation in this refresh. People forget that MMoM was a consolidation of Volos and MToF with an eye to showing players what monster stats and player species will look like going forward. "Take everything we've done to date and put it into one book," I've come to feel would actually be a bad editorial practice. A book of Everything has some utility, but I think it also sacrifices a lot more practical utility for it to be a worthwhile production. Core presumes it's the essential engine, and things will come to be built around it.
To go to your actual point, I'd agree an intro adventure isn't a silver bullet, but I do think it would help. Part of the issue is that D&D really takes at least 3 purchases to get ready to run: the DMG, the Monster Manual, and an adventure. That's at least 75 bucks for a hobby you're not even sure you're going to like yet. I know there's a free adventure but let's be really honest: the free adventure usually sucks, and it always assumes you've made the 60 dollar investment into the DMG and MM.
The starter sets come with everything you need to play. There is no assumption that you will have anything else. I started out with the Essentials Kit...it was a great deal. Unfortunately, they rolled back several of the aspects that made it great so I can no longer recommend them (the Starter Set is not even something I'd consider buying). There is enough free official content to get people going and have a decent taste of the game. I'll grant though, it's not the most prominent of things, hence why I've added them to my signature in the hopes that people try it before buying anything.
Personally, I think it's a real shame that they got rid of Lost Mine of Phandelver. It was a great way of seeing how a campaign ran. It was far from perfect, but it was free and wasn't terrible so it was good.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
I did not know they got rid of LMOP. That is a huge shame. It was a really great product for starters. It explained how the game worked and gave tips all the way through on how to run the adventure.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
Yeah, I think Phandelver and Below sort of put a cap on LMOP being a stand alone thing and sort of honored it's history with 5e. To be fair, it's been the default starting adventure for some time, and the D&D writers stable has changed significantly enough that it made sense they'd want to put out something new.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
I remember the LMoP box starter sets that had the full cover version of the basic rules, 1.0version I think, and the full book version of the adventure with all the maps, characters, dice, DM foldout, and blank sheets.
I also remember regretting at the time not buying more than one, think i picked it up for like $35 bucks.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
I think it's fine to point out that Starter Sets exist as many people still play D&D "tangibly" with physical maps and dice and sheets etc, and the Starter Sets are there for that. It's also really easy in that same conversation to point out that D&D has a number of official entry or starter appropriate products available. I think the buyer's guide on this forum even does that.
At first I was hoping 50th anniversary core was going to be a "consolidated edition"; but that's not what we're getting, and having messed around a bit with Pathfinder's remastered core, I think I get it. There are starter products, then there are core products, then there is expansion content. Two of my favorite games' starter sets (Alien and Delta Green) give a GM the ability to run any published scenario just with the starter box (both publishers for example publish stat blocks in scenarios for any content not in those starter books, simple character generation is provided in the starter or pregens are provided in published scenarios, etc). Core books allow a GM to design their own scenarios, or entire game worlds. Both have books with options for game play and characters beyond the "core" of the game. D&D could probably do a better job of producing a starter set that would allow players to play through published campaigns, but the core books are the core of the system that should give a DM and players enough to do what they want with the game. Supplemental books are just that. And to be fair, we are seeing consolidation in this refresh. People forget that MMoM was a consolidation of Volos and MToF with an eye to showing players what monster stats and player species will look like going forward. "Take everything we've done to date and put it into one book," I've come to feel would actually be a bad editorial practice. A book of Everything has some utility, but I think it also sacrifices a lot more practical utility for it to be a worthwhile production. Core presumes it's the essential engine, and things will come to be built around it.
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
The starter sets come with everything you need to play. There is no assumption that you will have anything else. I started out with the Essentials Kit...it was a great deal. Unfortunately, they rolled back several of the aspects that made it great so I can no longer recommend them (the Starter Set is not even something I'd consider buying). There is enough free official content to get people going and have a decent taste of the game. I'll grant though, it's not the most prominent of things, hence why I've added them to my signature in the hopes that people try it before buying anything.
Personally, I think it's a real shame that they got rid of Lost Mine of Phandelver. It was a great way of seeing how a campaign ran. It was far from perfect, but it was free and wasn't terrible so it was good.
If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
I did not know they got rid of LMOP. That is a huge shame. It was a really great product for starters. It explained how the game worked and gave tips all the way through on how to run the adventure.
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
-Ilyara Thundertale
Yeah, I think Phandelver and Below sort of put a cap on LMOP being a stand alone thing and sort of honored it's history with 5e. To be fair, it's been the default starting adventure for some time, and the D&D writers stable has changed significantly enough that it made sense they'd want to put out something new.
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
I remember the LMoP box starter sets that had the full cover version of the basic rules, 1.0version I think, and the full book version of the adventure with all the maps, characters, dice, DM foldout, and blank sheets.
I also remember regretting at the time not buying more than one, think i picked it up for like $35 bucks.