I would love to see WOTC check to make sure this site has not been hacked.
It seems like a huge percentage of 1 digit post users are finding their old passwords and logging on just to make complaints. After years and years of never posting before. not even during the last huge problem.
They have stated this is not a metric they are tracking.
Saying it and doing it are two different things.
And my real question was have they checked to see if they have been hacked?
Now would be the time for a hacker to get in and steal the official 5.5e data and place it out on the web months before the official release.
I mean, to the extent that this is a threat, I struggle to imagine what disgruntled forum posts would have to do with it. And while D&D Beyond almost certainly has a QA version where the unreleased stuff is being tested internally, getting there from their live site and bypassing their entire release management structure should be pretty difficult as they'd be different servers entirely among other things.
I would love to see WOTC check to make sure this site has not been hacked.
It seems like a huge percentage of 1 digit post users are finding their old passwords and logging on just to make complaints. After years and years of never posting before. not even during the last huge problem.
They have stated this is not a metric they are tracking.
Saying it and doing it are two different things.
And my real question was have they checked to see if they have been hacked?
Now would be the time for a hacker to get in and steal the official 5.5e data and place it out on the web months before the official release.
This happens all the time. It happened when Monsters from the Multiverse came through. It happened when Strahd was errata'd and changed the framing of content. It happened when Tashas came out because a lot of people hated the optional rules. It happened when the OGL stuff was fresh. It happened when One D&D was announced.
What you're seeing is the final ramp up to the new product that had one of the largest solicitation periods for feedback we've seen with the most popular edition we've seen where Wizards is FINALLY trying to brand D&D Beyond as the place for D&D based content, and not the dungeonsanddragons website, which now redirects to D&D Beyond. dnd.wizards.com, which redirects to D&D Beyond.
I would love to see WOTC check to make sure this site has not been hacked.
It seems like a huge percentage of 1 digit post users are finding their old passwords and logging on just to make complaints. After years and years of never posting before. not even during the last huge problem.
Actually a lot of old accounts are adventurers league players that had to start tracking their characters here on site, in an effort to bring in new meat.
Here's a secret most people don't know - the D&D police aren't going to come to your house and confiscate your old books. You can still play old 5e. You can still play any previous edition. This has always been true.
Even if you like the changes, you don't have to buy the books. No one can stop you from just implementing your favorite new rules as houserules in your current game.
While technically true, especially since the adventures are [claimed to be] still compatible... it's worth remembering that this isn't a "this has no consequence for you if you don't want to update". The whole point of the rules is to have a common framework among players, including new ones. WotC will almost certainly be pulling the PHB (2014) from sale, which is effective immediately on DDB. If I want to keep an open table that doesn't want to spend half an hour explaining the differences each time a new player joins (in my experience, that's been on average once every four or five sessions), then we'd have to update so they can get the rules for themselves.
For me, it's not really an issue. We'll probably be updating to 2024e anyway, so the big deal is that we get to keep the adventures (which I'm not entirely convinced is completely accurate, but still). However, it's not as simple as "ignore the update and it's fine, nothing changes).
Yet, changes will have to be made because WotC will want to push the new rules as much as possible, and players will have to make a decision on whether they want to play 5e rules, or 6e rules, ( WotC only ever claimed the adventures would ever be truly backward compatible, but for the characters and the rules, it’s the segment of the community that initially made the assumption that the rules would be truly compatible. [ Sure, if you play 2014 D&D with TCoE optional rules, but not that many really do.]), based on what games might be offered after the complete new three core rules finally come out.
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Place dental impression upon the metallic gluteus Maximus.
I would love to see WOTC check to make sure this site has not been hacked.
It seems like a huge percentage of 1 digit post users are finding their old passwords and logging on just to make complaints. After years and years of never posting before. not even during the last huge problem.
Actually a lot of old accounts are adventurers league players that had to start tracking their characters here on site, in an effort to bring in new meat.
Here's a secret most people don't know - the D&D police aren't going to come to your house and confiscate your old books. You can still play old 5e. You can still play any previous edition. This has always been true.
Even if you like the changes, you don't have to buy the books. No one can stop you from just implementing your favorite new rules as houserules in your current game.
While technically true, especially since the adventures are [claimed to be] still compatible... it's worth remembering that this isn't a "this has no consequence for you if you don't want to update". The whole point of the rules is to have a common framework among players, including new ones. WotC will almost certainly be pulling the PHB (2014) from sale, which is effective immediately on DDB. If I want to keep an open table that doesn't want to spend half an hour explaining the differences each time a new player joins (in my experience, that's been on average once every four or five sessions), then we'd have to update so they can get the rules for themselves.
For me, it's not really an issue. We'll probably be updating to 2024e anyway, so the big deal is that we get to keep the adventures (which I'm not entirely convinced is completely accurate, but still). However, it's not as simple as "ignore the update and it's fine, nothing changes).
Yet, changes will have to be made because WotC will want to push the new rules as much as possible, and players will have to make a decision on whether they want to play 5e rules, or 6e rules, ( WotC only ever claimed the adventures would ever be truly backward compatible, but for the characters and the rules, it’s the segment of the community that initially made the assumption that the rules would be truly compatible. [ Sure, if you play 2014 D&D with TCoE optional rules, but not that many really do.]), based on what games might be offered after the complete new three core rules finally come out.
What a real test will be is how and whether they will facilitate people who want a character with one class (or even subclass) from 2014 and another with a 2024 version. Really hoping they do it as 'include' rather than as 'either/or, choose for the entire character'
If 10 years is not long enough for new books in your view, what would you prefer? Never? That's not a sustainable business model.
Pay a subscription and get the updates for free? That seems to work for everyone else, why not WoTC?
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Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.
If 10 years is not long enough for new books in your view, what would you prefer? Never? That's not a sustainable business model.
Pay a subscription and get the updates for free? That seems to work for everyone else, why not WoTC?
Doesn't work for the hardcovers. Is the world obligated to buy new versions of Shakespeare's plays, too? There is no shortage out there of what are essentially retellings of Romeo and Juliet.
This is not an MMO. And even if it was, MMO's patch automatically and for free, whether you want the patch or not.
Doesn't work for the hardcovers. Is the world obligated to buy new versions of Shakespeare's plays, too? There is no shortage out there of what are essentially retellings of Romeo and Juliet.
This is not an MMO. And even if it was, MMO's patch automatically and for free, whether you want the patch or not.
Isn't that my argument? Pay subscription, get the updates not for free, but included in the subscription.
And if you want collectibles - like hardcover books - then those are extra. Obviously.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.
Doesn't work for the hardcovers. Is the world obligated to buy new versions of Shakespeare's plays, too? There is no shortage out there of what are essentially retellings of Romeo and Juliet.
This is not an MMO. And even if it was, MMO's patch automatically and for free, whether you want the patch or not.
Isn't that my argument? Pay subscription, get the updates not for free, but included in the subscription.
And if you want collectibles - like hardcover books - then those are extra. Obviously.
So you want to have to pay an annual fee to KEEP what you have already paid for? That is NOT what I was saying.
I believe Acromos is proposing that instead of paying $90 every few years for a new edition, we pay like $3/month and the rules are continuously updated as a subscription system (presumably with other perks to make it worth it).
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If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
I believe Acromos is proposing that instead of paying $90 every few years for a new edition, we pay like $3/month and the rules are continuously updated as a subscription system (presumably with other perks to make it worth it).
Which assumes that we WANT a new edition every few years. And, again, that assumes that what we have now gets updated whether we want that or not. Should we also be burning our books from earlier editions?
I get that there are actually people gung ho about a new edition, but neither of you have responded to my Shakespeare analogy. Newer variants on Shakespeare's plays are being made constantly. This does not mean his original plays are somehow less worth reading, performing or watching.
MMO's have the newer tech to take advantage of and what you are paying with, with your sub, is playing the MMO. You are not paying for the rules, themselves. The closest MMO analogy would be the rules being included with subs to whatever VTT they come up with. But then would they cease selling the rules independently of the VTT?
Why would I respond to your Shakespeare claim? I was pointing out what Acromos was actually proposing, rather than something about giving up old books.
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If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
I would love to see WOTC check to make sure this site has not been hacked.
It seems like a huge percentage of 1 digit post users are finding their old passwords and logging on just to make complaints. After years and years of never posting before. not even during the last huge problem.
Actually a lot of old accounts are adventurers league players that had to start tracking their characters here on site, in an effort to bring in new meat.
Here's a secret most people don't know - the D&D police aren't going to come to your house and confiscate your old books. You can still play old 5e. You can still play any previous edition. This has always been true.
Even if you like the changes, you don't have to buy the books. No one can stop you from just implementing your favorite new rules as houserules in your current game.
While technically true, especially since the adventures are [claimed to be] still compatible... it's worth remembering that this isn't a "this has no consequence for you if you don't want to update". The whole point of the rules is to have a common framework among players, including new ones. WotC will almost certainly be pulling the PHB (2014) from sale, which is effective immediately on DDB. If I want to keep an open table that doesn't want to spend half an hour explaining the differences each time a new player joins (in my experience, that's been on average once every four or five sessions), then we'd have to update so they can get the rules for themselves.
For me, it's not really an issue. We'll probably be updating to 2024e anyway, so the big deal is that we get to keep the adventures (which I'm not entirely convinced is completely accurate, but still). However, it's not as simple as "ignore the update and it's fine, nothing changes).
Yet, changes will have to be made because WotC will want to push the new rules as much as possible, and players will have to make a decision on whether they want to play 5e rules, or 6e rules, ( WotC only ever claimed the adventures would ever be truly backward compatible, but for the characters and the rules, it’s the segment of the community that initially made the assumption that the rules would be truly compatible. [ Sure, if you play 2014 D&D with TCoE optional rules, but not that many really do.]), based on what games might be offered after the complete new three core rules finally come out.
What a real test will be is how and whether they will facilitate people who want a character with one class (or even subclass) from 2014 and another with a 2024 version. Really hoping they do it as 'include' rather than as 'either/or, choose for the entire character'
This won't happen. Using 2014 stuff with 2024 stuff will essentially be homebrew, and we have 8 years experience on how the homebrew system works.
I believe Acromos is proposing that instead of paying $90 every few years for a new edition, we pay like $3/month and the rules are continuously updated as a subscription system (presumably with other perks to make it worth it).
It would not be worth it for most players.
Subscription costs add up fast. Even if that subscription includes content sharing, so only one person needs to do it, at $3 a month, you're paying more 2.5 years in.
When you consider that:
$3 a month with content sharing is way lower than what they're charging now for just content sharing
There's no way that they'd keep content sharing with the subscription model
It's easy to run the numbers and see how much more consumer-friendly the book-buying model is. It's got a big up-front cost, but it's much better in the medium run.
Start a savings plan, I do not want anymore subscriptions, I want to get something for my money not throw it away every month.
Well - yes. I agree with that. But here's a real thing: We're in the middle of a transition from one type of product to another. You may want printed books, or I may want a subscription, or it may be the other way around. Furthermore, WoTC may want to sell subscription, but they seem to also want to sell printed books.
Either way, printed books are going the way of the dinosaurs: They are becoming museum pieces and collectibles.
And that's fine, btw. Books were great, they had a fine fun, I own more than a thousand books and I've thrown away a similar number.
Now ... the problem is right now. Here, in the middle of the transition. Where we somehow want to buy our product and keep it, not have it magically disappear between our hands - but at the same time, we really also want the online options, the sheets, the rules online, this forum, the for-now-vaporous VTT. And meanwhile, WoTC really want to fleece us both ways, making us pay for books both physical and downloaded, oh and please and thank you, they'd really also like a subscription on top.
So right now, it's ... FUBAR.
But .. me? I'll settle for a subscription based solution that works. Tiered, so basically, I have the current rules available, always. But do I want adventures too? I can get that, if I pay a little more. The VTT? Yup, but it adds a little cost. How about printed books? Yes sir, that's a bit of internationally accepted currency on top, but you can have that too.
Sadly, that's ... not where we are. And while I think that's the way it ought to be - I'm not sure WoTC can control their moneyturbation long enough to settle on that solution.
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Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.
I was speaking about digital content not physical books.
A subscription only works while you are subscribed.
A subscription here would be a waste of money in a short amount of time it wouldn't be long before you could have bought everything they sell including 3rd party if you bought instead of renting.
I like to have my content available with a one time fee, not rent it in perpetuity. Buy once cry once is preferable to a death by a thousand cuts.
Perhaps you'll notice that I too speak of physical books?
I subscribe to ... oh, what's it called, Sago Mini? Regardless, it's a little game-universe for my 4yo. When I cancel subscription, it disappears - and when I sign back up, it's all there again. So ... subscription works, for a given set of requirements.
It doesn't work for all cases. But if ... mostly does for most cases. I guess I can think of a number of cases where it's problematic, but overall, I'm reasonably sure it mostly works. Also, I have no doubt that ... as I said, printed books will go the way of the dinosaurs.
As you may have surmised, I regret that. I like books. But I suppose I'll let myself be dragged, kicking and screaming, into the digital age, and learn to like it.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.
Pay a subscription and get the updates for free? That seems to work for everyone else, why not WoTC?
Define "everyone else." Gamepass? Netflix? Audible? Amazon Prime? How much would WoTC need to charge for a subscription to cover major releases like the books they're planning now, and would people be more willing to pay that than they would be to do the current model of a smaller tools-based subscription coupled with larger ad-hoc purchases?
Because for a sub to cover off on the books like you're proposing, to be a suitable return on investment, it would likely need to be pretty substantially priced, up there with a streaming service if not past it. And I think most of us already have more than enough of those as it is.
Start a savings plan, I do not want anymore subscriptions, I want to get something for my money not throw it away every month.
Well - yes. I agree with that. But here's a real thing: We're in the middle of a transition from one type of product to another. You may want printed books, or I may want a subscription, or it may be the other way around. Furthermore, WoTC may want to sell subscription, but they seem to also want to sell printed books.
Either way, printed books are going the way of the dinosaurs: They are becoming museum pieces and collectibles.
And that's fine, btw. Books were great, they had a fine fun, I own more than a thousand books and I've thrown away a similar number.
Now ... the problem is right now. Here, in the middle of the transition. Where we somehow want to buy our product and keep it, not have it magically disappear between our hands - but at the same time, we really also want the online options, the sheets, the rules online, this forum, the for-now-vaporous VTT. And meanwhile, WoTC really want to fleece us both ways, making us pay for books both physical and downloaded, oh and please and thank you, they'd really also like a subscription on top.
So right now, it's ... FUBAR.
But .. me? I'll settle for a subscription based solution that works. Tiered, so basically, I have the current rules available, always. But do I want adventures too? I can get that, if I pay a little more. The VTT? Yup, but it adds a little cost. How about printed books? Yes sir, that's a bit of internationally accepted currency on top, but you can have that too.
Sadly, that's ... not where we are. And while I think that's the way it ought to be - I'm not sure WoTC can control their moneyturbation long enough to settle on that solution.
For $90 digital, 10 years is roughly equivalent to $0.75 a month. As for a digital sub method where one can get their cake and eat it too, it would financially stupid for an individual to even consider taking the sub. ( unless that sub came with massive amounts of extras. )
And as far as physical books are concerned, last I checked, all you needed to run a physical game was a physical writing tool that keeps track of minor things and a healthy amount of imagination.
People have been constantly asking for a one-and-done subscription for all content for years on the site, and elsewhere, and companies know its a lead loss proposal that they would be stupid to offer.
And physical books don’t depend on third party involvement in bringing the content one has to constantly pay to access said content, because its a one an done payment, and last as long as care is taken in maintaining their condition.
Digital only last for as long as the individual that provides the content keeps the information alive on a platform that can be readily accessible, and constantly financially supported, also an individual that would also have to support a number of other third parties that are also required.
Physical trumps digital a thousand times more, and a digital only platform would soon get old ( most digital content has a life of only two years, then fades away), and ether will be quickly replaced or simply discontinued. ( and currently we are getting both )
I was speaking about digital content not physical books.
A subscription only works while you are subscribed.
A subscription here would be a waste of money in a short amount of time it wouldn't be long before you could have bought everything they sell including 3rd party if you bought instead of renting.
I like to have my content available with a one time fee, not rent it in perpetuity. Buy once cry once is preferable to a death by a thousand cuts.
Perhaps you'll notice that I too speak of physical books?
I subscribe to ... oh, what's it called, Sago Mini? Regardless, it's a little game-universe for my 4yo. When I cancel subscription, it disappears - and when I sign back up, it's all there again. So ... subscription works, for a given set of requirements.
It doesn't work for all cases. But if ... mostly does for most cases. I guess I can think of a number of cases where it's problematic, but overall, I'm reasonably sure it mostly works. Also, I have no doubt that ... as I said, printed books will go the way of the dinosaurs.
As you may have surmised, I regret that. I like books. But I suppose I'll let myself be dragged, kicking and screaming, into the digital age, and learn to like it.
Subscriptions are a reasonable approach for something like Netflix. They have a large amount of material, and after you watch a thing, you probably don't want to watch it again for a while, if ever. Buying it makes little sense for the one interaction.
D&D isn't like that. They have a small number of books that you're going to want over and over again, over the course of months or even years. A subscription rapidly gets more expensive than just buying the thing.
"Subscriptions for everything" may be the way lots of companies are going in the modern era, but that doesn't make it good for anyone but the company's investors. It certainly is not something that should be encouraged.
(The other things subscriptions are needed for are ongoing services. If you play games online for Xbox live, there're servers required that require ongoing maintenance and support. But if you just wanna play Minecraft forever, you'd rather pay up front and own it.)
Pay a subscription and get the updates for free? That seems to work for everyone else, why not WoTC?
1) Enough people complain about not owning content already without losing access to books if you stop subscribing. People HATE Adobe being subscription only.
2) They tried that with 4e, where you could get ALL the content for one monthly subscription price. What happened was people subbed periodically and shared access across the table. And even a $15/ month subscription is barely enough to equal the costs of three books. If they do more than three releases, they're giving a book away.
3) Not everyone has access to devices and the internet for a subscription. How would that work at conventions or for soldiers serving overseas or people playing at a community centre?
4) Gifting a subscription to get people into the game is much harder.
5) How would this even work for kids and teens who lack credit cards?
6) If you just want the core rules... why would you pay the full cost of said rulebooks each year just to retain access? What's the benefit?
7) Given books are text not a program that dials home or a film... what prevents people from just cut-and-pasting the books into Google Docs? Or printing the website as a PDF? Piracy would be effortless...
Either way, printed books are going the way of the dinosaurs: They are becoming museum pieces and collectibles.
Librarian here. I've been hearing that for years. Yet people are still buying books.
The book industry is declining, but it will be three or four decades before it goes away. Ig ever.
Now ... the problem is right now. Here, in the middle of the transition. Where we somehow want to buy our product and keep it, not have it magically disappear between our hands - but at the same time, we really also want the online options, the sheets, the rules online, this forum, the for-now-vaporous VTT. And meanwhile, WoTC really want to fleece us both ways, making us pay for books both physical and downloaded, oh and please and thank you, they'd really also like a subscription on top.
It's not "fleecing." The people who program this site and provide the digital access and code the character builder deserve to be paid for their time as well.
I'm just about done with DnD at this point, it's become just another cash grab and it's embarrassing to watch the game I love descend into this.
Here's the hard truth: D&D has always been a cash grab.
Because, realistically, what's the alternative? Release three core rulebooks, a couple expansions, and then just close up shop? Layoff the entire staff and just keep reprinting the books?
That's the catch, D&D either needs to keep releasing new books to pay for its staff OR they need to fire everyone. There's not really a third choice. Well.... apart from releasing dozens of other games, that all compete for sales with existing audiences until no game is selling enough to make a profit... so they fire everyone. Which is really just option two with more steps.
5e lasted 10 years before a major rules update. That's pretty darn good. And the new books are compatible with the old, so your thousands of dollars of existing product can still largely be used. That's better than other game companies have done.
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I mean, to the extent that this is a threat, I struggle to imagine what disgruntled forum posts would have to do with it. And while D&D Beyond almost certainly has a QA version where the unreleased stuff is being tested internally, getting there from their live site and bypassing their entire release management structure should be pretty difficult as they'd be different servers entirely among other things.
This happens all the time. It happened when Monsters from the Multiverse came through. It happened when Strahd was errata'd and changed the framing of content. It happened when Tashas came out because a lot of people hated the optional rules. It happened when the OGL stuff was fresh. It happened when One D&D was announced.
What you're seeing is the final ramp up to the new product that had one of the largest solicitation periods for feedback we've seen with the most popular edition we've seen where Wizards is FINALLY trying to brand D&D Beyond as the place for D&D based content, and not the dungeonsanddragons website, which now redirects to D&D Beyond. dnd.wizards.com, which redirects to D&D Beyond.
Actually a lot of old accounts are adventurers league players that had to start tracking their characters here on site, in an effort to bring in new meat.
Yet, changes will have to be made because WotC will want to push the new rules as much as possible, and players will have to make a decision on whether they want to play 5e rules, or 6e rules, ( WotC only ever claimed the adventures would ever be truly backward compatible, but for the characters and the rules, it’s the segment of the community that initially made the assumption that the rules would be truly compatible. [ Sure, if you play 2014 D&D with TCoE optional rules, but not that many really do.]), based on what games might be offered after the complete new three core rules finally come out.
Place dental impression upon the metallic gluteus Maximus.
What a real test will be is how and whether they will facilitate people who want a character with one class (or even subclass) from 2014 and another with a 2024 version. Really hoping they do it as 'include' rather than as 'either/or, choose for the entire character'
Pay a subscription and get the updates for free? That seems to work for everyone else, why not WoTC?
Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.
Doesn't work for the hardcovers. Is the world obligated to buy new versions of Shakespeare's plays, too? There is no shortage out there of what are essentially retellings of Romeo and Juliet.
This is not an MMO. And even if it was, MMO's patch automatically and for free, whether you want the patch or not.
Isn't that my argument? Pay subscription, get the updates not for free, but included in the subscription.
And if you want collectibles - like hardcover books - then those are extra. Obviously.
Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.
So you want to have to pay an annual fee to KEEP what you have already paid for? That is NOT what I was saying.
I believe Acromos is proposing that instead of paying $90 every few years for a new edition, we pay like $3/month and the rules are continuously updated as a subscription system (presumably with other perks to make it worth it).
If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
Which assumes that we WANT a new edition every few years. And, again, that assumes that what we have now gets updated whether we want that or not. Should we also be burning our books from earlier editions?
I get that there are actually people gung ho about a new edition, but neither of you have responded to my Shakespeare analogy. Newer variants on Shakespeare's plays are being made constantly. This does not mean his original plays are somehow less worth reading, performing or watching.
MMO's have the newer tech to take advantage of and what you are paying with, with your sub, is playing the MMO. You are not paying for the rules, themselves. The closest MMO analogy would be the rules being included with subs to whatever VTT they come up with. But then would they cease selling the rules independently of the VTT?
Why would I respond to your Shakespeare claim? I was pointing out what Acromos was actually proposing, rather than something about giving up old books.
If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
This won't happen. Using 2014 stuff with 2024 stuff will essentially be homebrew, and we have 8 years experience on how the homebrew system works.
It would not be worth it for most players.
Subscription costs add up fast. Even if that subscription includes content sharing, so only one person needs to do it, at $3 a month, you're paying more 2.5 years in.
When you consider that:
It's easy to run the numbers and see how much more consumer-friendly the book-buying model is. It's got a big up-front cost, but it's much better in the medium run.
Well - yes. I agree with that. But here's a real thing: We're in the middle of a transition from one type of product to another. You may want printed books, or I may want a subscription, or it may be the other way around. Furthermore, WoTC may want to sell subscription, but they seem to also want to sell printed books.
Either way, printed books are going the way of the dinosaurs: They are becoming museum pieces and collectibles.
And that's fine, btw. Books were great, they had a fine fun, I own more than a thousand books and I've thrown away a similar number.
Now ... the problem is right now. Here, in the middle of the transition. Where we somehow want to buy our product and keep it, not have it magically disappear between our hands - but at the same time, we really also want the online options, the sheets, the rules online, this forum, the for-now-vaporous VTT. And meanwhile, WoTC really want to fleece us both ways, making us pay for books both physical and downloaded, oh and please and thank you, they'd really also like a subscription on top.
So right now, it's ... FUBAR.
But .. me? I'll settle for a subscription based solution that works. Tiered, so basically, I have the current rules available, always. But do I want adventures too? I can get that, if I pay a little more. The VTT? Yup, but it adds a little cost. How about printed books? Yes sir, that's a bit of internationally accepted currency on top, but you can have that too.
Sadly, that's ... not where we are. And while I think that's the way it ought to be - I'm not sure WoTC can control their moneyturbation long enough to settle on that solution.
Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.
Perhaps you'll notice that I too speak of physical books?
I subscribe to ... oh, what's it called, Sago Mini? Regardless, it's a little game-universe for my 4yo. When I cancel subscription, it disappears - and when I sign back up, it's all there again. So ... subscription works, for a given set of requirements.
It doesn't work for all cases. But if ... mostly does for most cases. I guess I can think of a number of cases where it's problematic, but overall, I'm reasonably sure it mostly works. Also, I have no doubt that ... as I said, printed books will go the way of the dinosaurs.
As you may have surmised, I regret that. I like books. But I suppose I'll let myself be dragged, kicking and screaming, into the digital age, and learn to like it.
Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.
Define "everyone else." Gamepass? Netflix? Audible? Amazon Prime? How much would WoTC need to charge for a subscription to cover major releases like the books they're planning now, and would people be more willing to pay that than they would be to do the current model of a smaller tools-based subscription coupled with larger ad-hoc purchases?
Because for a sub to cover off on the books like you're proposing, to be a suitable return on investment, it would likely need to be pretty substantially priced, up there with a streaming service if not past it. And I think most of us already have more than enough of those as it is.
For $90 digital, 10 years is roughly equivalent to $0.75 a month. As for a digital sub method where one can get their cake and eat it too, it would financially stupid for an individual to even consider taking the sub. ( unless that sub came with massive amounts of extras. )
And as far as physical books are concerned, last I checked, all you needed to run a physical game was a physical writing tool that keeps track of minor things and a healthy amount of imagination.
People have been constantly asking for a one-and-done subscription for all content for years on the site, and elsewhere, and companies know its a lead loss proposal that they would be stupid to offer.
And physical books don’t depend on third party involvement in bringing the content one has to constantly pay to access said content, because its a one an done payment, and last as long as care is taken in maintaining their condition.
Digital only last for as long as the individual that provides the content keeps the information alive on a platform that can be readily accessible, and constantly financially supported, also an individual that would also have to support a number of other third parties that are also required.
Physical trumps digital a thousand times more, and a digital only platform would soon get old ( most digital content has a life of only two years, then fades away), and ether will be quickly replaced or simply discontinued. ( and currently we are getting both )
Place dental impression upon the metallic gluteus Maximus.
Subscriptions are a reasonable approach for something like Netflix. They have a large amount of material, and after you watch a thing, you probably don't want to watch it again for a while, if ever. Buying it makes little sense for the one interaction.
D&D isn't like that. They have a small number of books that you're going to want over and over again, over the course of months or even years. A subscription rapidly gets more expensive than just buying the thing.
"Subscriptions for everything" may be the way lots of companies are going in the modern era, but that doesn't make it good for anyone but the company's investors. It certainly is not something that should be encouraged.
(The other things subscriptions are needed for are ongoing services. If you play games online for Xbox live, there're servers required that require ongoing maintenance and support. But if you just wanna play Minecraft forever, you'd rather pay up front and own it.)
Here's the hard truth: D&D has always been a cash grab.
Because, realistically, what's the alternative? Release three core rulebooks, a couple expansions, and then just close up shop? Layoff the entire staff and just keep reprinting the books?
That's the catch, D&D either needs to keep releasing new books to pay for its staff OR they need to fire everyone.
There's not really a third choice.
Well.... apart from releasing dozens of other games, that all compete for sales with existing audiences until no game is selling enough to make a profit... so they fire everyone. Which is really just option two with more steps.
5e lasted 10 years before a major rules update. That's pretty darn good. And the new books are compatible with the old, so your thousands of dollars of existing product can still largely be used. That's better than other game companies have done.