I know for me it's not INT replacing CHA, it's having the choice of either as the main stat that I thought was a great idea. Thematically it makes sense to me (CHA 'locks get noticed by their patrons because of, well, their CHA! INT 'locks dig deep for eldritch secrets and uncover ways to catch the notice of their patron in ancient tomes, etc...). More importantly it gives the wizard class an interesting and (at least to me) logical option in warlock to multiclass with.
^ That - I wanted a choice between them, not an outright replacement of Cha. Moreover, while I agree with you on multiclassing, even in games that don't use that there are multiple options in the PHB for every single primary attribute except Int, so Warlocks having Int as an option would have meant parties who want an Int character would have a very compelling non-Wizard choice.
Talisman wasn't a core pact before, so I wouldn't expect it to be core now. It'll probably get updated in a future product, and more Pact boons added too.
I know for me it's not INT replacing CHA, it's having the choice of either as the main stat that I thought was a great idea. Thematically it makes sense to me (CHA 'locks get noticed by their patrons because of, well, their CHA! INT 'locks dig deep for eldritch secrets and uncover ways to catch the notice of their patron in ancient tomes, etc...). More importantly it gives the wizard class an interesting and (at least to me) logical option in warlock to multiclass with.
^ That - I wanted a choice between them, not an outright replacement of Cha. Moreover, while I agree with you on multiclassing, even in games that don't use that there are multiple options in the PHB for every single primary attribute except Int, so Warlocks having Int as an option would have meant parties who want an Int character would have a very compelling non-Wizard choice.
Talisman wasn't a core pact before, so I wouldn't expect it to be core now. It'll probably get updated in a future product, and more Pact boons added too.
Hope so. More options the better IMHO.
Also, TALISMAN*, not amulet... Thank you for not flaming me for that slip of the mind. Haha
Invocations that used to only boost Eldritch Blast will be able to boost other cantrips now. That will make it easier to build around a theme instead of just doing the same Eldritch Blast every other Warlock is doing. That is super dope!
THIS excites me SO MUCH. I do love Eldritch Blast when I play warlocks, but I do love choices that give some flavor, and I'm gonna play a LOT of warlocks when the new rulebooks drop.
I like this change as well. Depends on the exact wording, but even though this would scale best on Eldritch Blast (along with force being rarely resisted), having other damage types as well as rider effects will make for some interesting combinations. And make it. Easier to fit themes.
I think a big part of the lack of engagement on this is what we are going to see with a lot of the spell caster classes. Spell caster classes need more details, we need to know invocation wordings, we need to know spells before we can judge anything. Further everything that has been talked about in warlock is buffs while the Paladin has a nerf that some are going to be for and some are going to be against. Nerfs are generally more controversial than buffs.
Quote from broknsword>> Hope so. More options the better IMHO.
Also, TALISMAN*, not amulet... Thank you for not flaming me for that slip of the mind. Haha
I have heard that Pact of the Talisman as written in Tasha's, along with the invocations that boost it, are compatible with the new rules. Just make it an invocation.
I am now very excited to finally play that Archfey warlock idea I have based on Veruca Salt, with Willy Wonka as her patron
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Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock) Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric) Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue) Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
I was wondering, do we keep the same limited amount of spell slots for warlocks in the new 2024 rules?
In a word, yes - but between...
The new Magical Cunning emergency recovery feature
Not needing Tome to use Rituals anymore
More/Better Invocations than 2014
Better racial spells and origin feats
Subclasses that don't suck nearly as much
...you should feel the pain of the limited pact slots less.
Also, more of the other classes are gaining features that recharge on a short rest, so Warlocks may have more opportunity to recharge their spell slots.
So while I was VERY down on most of what was given in the UAs for warlock - and while still being of the mind that WOTC should've approached the 2024 update similarly to MCDM's approach to making a TTRPG (not bowing to the whims of the masses but using focused playtesting, being willing to throw things out, etc.) - the video actually has me kind of excited for the new warlock? It doesn't sound like my existing Hexblade will translate 100% but a lot sounds like it's in place.
I still very much dislike patrons being chosen at third level. Narratively, this just makes zero sense.
My overarching concern - not limited to warlocks - is what feels like a significant jump in power for all classes and subclasses. Which makes me wonder will Tier III and Tier IV characters be even more unbalanced and godlike in the 2024 versions? It also feels like character death will become even harder/more unlikely, which means establishing tension and stakes are going to be harder for DMs.
I still very much dislike patrons being chosen at third level. Narratively, this just makes zero sense.
I'm with you on that (sorcerer too), but there are ways around it. You can still "pick" a patron at 1st, you just won't actually choose the subclass mechanically until 3rd. Or you can go the "you don't know the true source of your powers" route and do a Big Reveal at 3rd
Really they should have structured it more like cleric domains, and offered suites of features that are thematically linked without necessarily being for specific types of patrons. Maybe your archfey patron is more into mind control than teleporting, that sort of thing
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock) Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric) Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue) Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
It doesn't sound like my existing Hexblade will translate 100% but a lot sounds like it's in place.
I still very much dislike patrons being chosen at third level. Narratively, this just makes zero sense.
I won't try to convince you regarding the narrative of level 3 patrons - by now they've described how it works in the fiction multiple times, so either you buy it or you don't at this point.
Regarding Hexblade though, not only do you still get the main reason most people take it (Cha to Attack/Damage), you can even still get it at level 1 like before.
My overarching concern - not limited to warlocks - is what feels like a significant jump in power for all classes and subclasses. Which makes me wonder will Tier III and Tier IV characters be even more unbalanced and godlike in the 2024 versions? It also feels like character death will become even harder/more unlikely, which means establishing tension and stakes are going to be harder for DMs.
I've seen this concern a few times and I genuinely don't understand it. If you make a couple of encounters and your players breeze through them... just make the subsequent ones harder. Bump up the party's APL a notch, add more monsters, add tougher monsters, unfavorable terrain, use waves / reinforcements etc. The DM has many tools in their toolbelt to modulate difficulty.
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No Pact of the Amulet?!? :_(
^ That - I wanted a choice between them, not an outright replacement of Cha. Moreover, while I agree with you on multiclassing, even in games that don't use that there are multiple options in the PHB for every single primary attribute except Int, so Warlocks having Int as an option would have meant parties who want an Int character would have a very compelling non-Wizard choice.
Talisman wasn't a core pact before, so I wouldn't expect it to be core now. It'll probably get updated in a future product, and more Pact boons added too.
Hope so. More options the better IMHO.
Also, TALISMAN*, not amulet... Thank you for not flaming me for that slip of the mind. Haha
I like this change as well. Depends on the exact wording, but even though this would scale best on Eldritch Blast (along with force being rarely resisted), having other damage types as well as rider effects will make for some interesting combinations. And make it. Easier to fit themes.
EZD6 by DM Scotty
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/397599/EZD6-Core-Rulebook?
I think a big part of the lack of engagement on this is what we are going to see with a lot of the spell caster classes. Spell caster classes need more details, we need to know invocation wordings, we need to know spells before we can judge anything. Further everything that has been talked about in warlock is buffs while the Paladin has a nerf that some are going to be for and some are going to be against. Nerfs are generally more controversial than buffs.
I have heard that Pact of the Talisman as written in Tasha's, along with the invocations that boost it, are compatible with the new rules. Just make it an invocation.
Can’t wait to play this new ‘Lock. Nothing more to add, just helping improve the post count 😎
I am now very excited to finally play that Archfey warlock idea I have based on Veruca Salt, with Willy Wonka as her patron
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock)
Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
I was wondering, do we keep the same limited amount of spell slots for warlocks in the new 2024 rules?
As far as we know..... yes with caveats.
I played a Veruca Salt Warlock but Willy Wonka was stealing souls.
yea warlocks are super busted now id have to say up there as one of the strongest classes
In a word, yes - but between...
...you should feel the pain of the limited pact slots less.
Anyone know why Warlock didn't recieve a post on the frontpage, unlike the other class so far.
Watching the vid I might actually make one now
It's coming sometime this week, as stated by the staff member is the initial post on this thread.
Also, more of the other classes are gaining features that recharge on a short rest, so Warlocks may have more opportunity to recharge their spell slots.
So while I was VERY down on most of what was given in the UAs for warlock - and while still being of the mind that WOTC should've approached the 2024 update similarly to MCDM's approach to making a TTRPG (not bowing to the whims of the masses but using focused playtesting, being willing to throw things out, etc.) - the video actually has me kind of excited for the new warlock? It doesn't sound like my existing Hexblade will translate 100% but a lot sounds like it's in place.
I still very much dislike patrons being chosen at third level. Narratively, this just makes zero sense.
My overarching concern - not limited to warlocks - is what feels like a significant jump in power for all classes and subclasses. Which makes me wonder will Tier III and Tier IV characters be even more unbalanced and godlike in the 2024 versions? It also feels like character death will become even harder/more unlikely, which means establishing tension and stakes are going to be harder for DMs.
I'm with you on that (sorcerer too), but there are ways around it. You can still "pick" a patron at 1st, you just won't actually choose the subclass mechanically until 3rd. Or you can go the "you don't know the true source of your powers" route and do a Big Reveal at 3rd
Really they should have structured it more like cleric domains, and offered suites of features that are thematically linked without necessarily being for specific types of patrons. Maybe your archfey patron is more into mind control than teleporting, that sort of thing
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock)
Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
I won't try to convince you regarding the narrative of level 3 patrons - by now they've described how it works in the fiction multiple times, so either you buy it or you don't at this point.
Regarding Hexblade though, not only do you still get the main reason most people take it (Cha to Attack/Damage), you can even still get it at level 1 like before.
I've seen this concern a few times and I genuinely don't understand it. If you make a couple of encounters and your players breeze through them... just make the subsequent ones harder. Bump up the party's APL a notch, add more monsters, add tougher monsters, unfavorable terrain, use waves / reinforcements etc. The DM has many tools in their toolbelt to modulate difficulty.