We don't have any hints on whether polymorph (and/or shapechange) will be changed. I'd be in favor of it - as far as I can tell, it's fairly recent invention of the caster gaining the hit points of the assumed shape (older editions did not grant this). The 2014 version of wild shape combined with polymorph was, IMNSHO, broken in terms of the potential for THP and a correction was needed.
I'm sad they didn't make a scaling template for moon druids as a option.
A scaling template as an option would be great
the issue in the UA was that it was a forced replacement rather then an option.
People aren’t opposed to templates as options. Their opposed to templates as replacements
I think part of the problem with the UA templates was they were combat focused (and not very well at that) and mainly the moon Druid would use wildshape that way. Most other Druids used WS for utility past tier 1 and the templates had nothing for them.
Do Druids get proficiency with shields, regardless of Primal order choice (Warden Vs Magician)? It seems like Warden might very often be the better choice, maybe except for, for flying species, or I guess if you are expecting low combat (or you just really want one more Cantrip). Does that seem accurate?
Do Druids get proficiency with shields, regardless of Primal order choice (Warden Vs Magician)? It seems like Warden might very often be the better choice, maybe except for, for flying species, or I guess if you are expecting low combat (or you just really want one more Cantrip). Does that seem accurate?
Per the UA they have shield proficiency/training natively, and I expect that to be the case in the live version.
Yes, Warden is considerably stronger even for caster druids, unless there is a fundamental change to armor proficiency and spellcasting that we haven't seen yet. Somewhat ironically, the druid that will benefit most from Magician mechanically is Moon, the most martial druid, because the improved armor training from Warden won't carry over to wildshape anyway.
So since all the articles are out now for the other classes, are they really not making one for Druid? I get delays like some of the other classes had, but it seems weird that the one for Druid is still missing. I prefer the article formate and would love to read about more than just Moon Druid/Wildshape.
Because they were too obstinate to use Shaman, probably on a basis of indigenous cultures in their home country would object. However they were happy to use a Norse mythology for barbarian, doubles standard eh?
2024 version of Circle of the Land seems like a much more attractive option than 2014 Circle of the Land. I'm excited to see the full text.
Indeed, it's better in every way:
- Can get the bonus cantrip as before (+Wis to Nature checks) or can instead wear metal medium armor - Familiar option lasts indefinitely instead of hour/level - Can turn unneeded spell slots into wild shape - Potent Cantrip - Commune With Nature always prepared - Bonus 8th-level slot per day - Can change your Land biome on a Long Rest - New Land's Aid ability lets you convert wild shape uses into AoE damage and healing - Natural Recovery also gives you a free casting of one of your Circle spells (up to 5th level) - Nature's Ward gives you a floating damage resistance in addition to Poisoned immunity - Nature's Sanctuary is much more useful at high levels now
The only thing they really lost was Land's Stride, and Speak With Plants actually lets you do most of that anyway.
Personally, I think the Primal Orders: Warden is a trap. All druids used to get medium armor proficiencies, so its really shitty that now its something you have to choose. Personally, I will likely be playing with a homebrew that all druids get their medium armor proficiency, and Warden, grants temp hp at the start of every long rest equal to their wisdom modifier, and every time they wild shape, they can also add their wisdom modifier to the temp hp they get from wild shape. I think this would be a much better change. The cleric divine order options are actually good, because of how the class was before, but I think the Druid's Primal Orders just cant compare. So I will probably be working with that homebrew change myself
I think Primal Order: Warden is bad, because it takes away medium armor proficiency, something druids already normally got on their own, and now it's a choice. My homebrew fix for it, will likely be the Warden gives the druid temp hp at the start of every long rest equal to their wisdom modifier, and whenever they wildshape, they can add their wisdom modifier to the temp hp they get. Do you think this would be a good alternate, considering you wish they had some kind of +# they can add to the temp hp? Personally, I would much rather make that choice between druids, and give them all medium armor.
Personally, I think the Primal Orders: Warden is a trap. All druids used to get medium armor proficiencies, so its really shitty that now its something you have to choose. Personally, I will likely be playing with a homebrew that all druids get their medium armor proficiency, and Warden, grants temp hp at the start of every long rest equal to their wisdom modifier, and every time they wild shape, they can also add their wisdom modifier to the temp hp they get from wild shape. I think this would be a much better change. The cleric divine order options are actually good, because of how the class was before, but I think the Druid's Primal Orders just cant compare. So I will probably be working with that homebrew change myself
I think Primal Order: Warden is bad, because it takes away medium armor proficiency, something druids already normally got on their own, and now it's a choice. My homebrew fix for it, will likely be the Warden gives the druid temp hp at the start of every long rest equal to their wisdom modifier, and whenever they wildshape, they can add their wisdom modifier to the temp hp they get. Do you think this would be a good alternate, considering you wish they had some kind of +# they can add to the temp hp? Personally, I would much rather make that choice between druids, and give them all medium armor.
That would be tough to impliment, because extra attack is a such a good feature, but I totally agree that it's needed if they go that route.
Uh... are you talking to yourself? 🤨
In theory 2014 Druids had Medium Armor proficiency, but in practice that just meant Hide (the second-worst armor in the game next to Padded), because every other medium armor was made of metal and many DMs enforced the metal armor restriction. Warden is meant to split the difference - giving druids an easy way to wear actually good medium armor, without just turning them into Nature Clerics. Druids get to wear metal medium armor now, but they take a hit to their spellcasting and knowledge relative to clerics who do the same.
Light Armor (lose Hide) but get Cantrip plus skill bonuses.
This nets you higher base AC, something all subclasses benefit from at certain points (including Moon but less often) or playing a more backline caster role.
I dislike that elemental wild shape was removed. Moon druids can no longer survive the elemental planes as easily.
I'm not sure I understand. Could you elaborate, please?
What they're saying is with Elemental Wildshape removed from Druid in the 2024 PHB you can no longer go to, for example, the elemental plane of fire, wildshaped into a Fire Elemental and survive easily. I would assume your average player race/species would not survive long there.
I feel like losing the variability in HP is a bad thing. Running around as an elephant feels like your thing is that you can take a lot of punishment.
I get that the sheer amount of HP available to the 2014 Druid was overkill and something needed to be done to bring it down. I'm not sure what would have been better. The first thought was maintain damage dealt (so if you took 10 damage, then when you transform, you remove 10HP from the health pool, but that causes problems with small creatures...dunno.
As a DM the old school "35 thp at level 2" Moon Druid wild shape was the most broken thing in the game levels 2-4 and needed to die. I'm not sure anything's got wild shape quite right - but this is more right than it used to be.
The new wild shape temp hp is the worst thing about the new druid stuff maybe if it was a little more but personally I will just continue to use the old druid stuff. All the other stuff is really nice but it make the druid more of a caster type deal with a week amount of hp now. If a dm doesn't let me use the old then I just don't play a druid then even though it's one of the few classes I do like I may agree that the 35 may have been too much at level 2 but only giving 6 hp for moon druids at level 2 is taking away a lot of there survivability. there would have been multiple times playing a druid were I would have been knocked unconscious from just that little extra temp hp. sure you get too keep your wild shape and don't get knocked out and maybe your ac is a little higher but none of that matters if your down for the count. But shrug some people may like the new rules and that is fine too. for me personally it takes the fun out of it.
It feels to me like they went overboard on trying to balance everything.
- My moon druid now loses the very powerful hit point pools from their wild shapes
+ My moon druid receives better AC, which was a big weakness for some beasts
- My moon druid can no longer wild shape into an elemental
+ My moon druid now gets some extra "elemental" damage
- My moon druid's wild shape forms appear to also be nerfed (lower to hit; lower damage; Blind Sight removed; no more Keen Smell or Keen Hearing)
+ My moon druid gets extra damage added at higher levels (especially with Conjure Minor Elementals which is probably broken and will be nerfed in the future)
So, instead of having big weaknesses, and big strengths that I need to strategize around, it's all more "balanced". It seems like a bowl of vanilla ice cream.
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We don't have any hints on whether polymorph (and/or shapechange) will be changed. I'd be in favor of it - as far as I can tell, it's fairly recent invention of the caster gaining the hit points of the assumed shape (older editions did not grant this). The 2014 version of wild shape combined with polymorph was, IMNSHO, broken in terms of the potential for THP and a correction was needed.
I dislike that elemental wild shape was removed. Moon druids can no longer survive the elemental planes as easily.
I think part of the problem with the UA templates was they were combat focused (and not very well at that) and mainly the moon Druid would use wildshape that way. Most other Druids used WS for utility past tier 1 and the templates had nothing for them.
EZD6 by DM Scotty
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/397599/EZD6-Core-Rulebook?
Do Druids get proficiency with shields, regardless of Primal order choice (Warden Vs Magician)? It seems like Warden might very often be the better choice, maybe except for, for flying species, or I guess if you are expecting low combat (or you just really want one more Cantrip). Does that seem accurate?
Per the UA they have shield proficiency/training natively, and I expect that to be the case in the live version.
Yes, Warden is considerably stronger even for caster druids, unless there is a fundamental change to armor proficiency and spellcasting that we haven't seen yet. Somewhat ironically, the druid that will benefit most from Magician mechanically is Moon, the most martial druid, because the improved armor training from Warden won't carry over to wildshape anyway.
So since all the articles are out now for the other classes, are they really not making one for Druid? I get delays like some of the other classes had, but it seems weird that the one for Druid is still missing. I prefer the article formate and would love to read about more than just Moon Druid/Wildshape.
Because they were too obstinate to use Shaman, probably on a basis of indigenous cultures in their home country would object. However they were happy to use a Norse mythology for barbarian, doubles standard eh?
Why not “magician”? They are Druids who specialise more in magic. A magician isn’t necessarily someone doing card tricks.
2024 version of Circle of the Land seems like a much more attractive option than 2014 Circle of the Land. I'm excited to see the full text.
Indeed, it's better in every way:
- Can get the bonus cantrip as before (+Wis to Nature checks) or can instead wear metal medium armor
- Familiar option lasts indefinitely instead of hour/level
- Can turn unneeded spell slots into wild shape
- Potent Cantrip
- Commune With Nature always prepared
- Bonus 8th-level slot per day
- Can change your Land biome on a Long Rest
- New Land's Aid ability lets you convert wild shape uses into AoE damage and healing
- Natural Recovery also gives you a free casting of one of your Circle spells (up to 5th level)
- Nature's Ward gives you a floating damage resistance in addition to Poisoned immunity
- Nature's Sanctuary is much more useful at high levels now
The only thing they really lost was Land's Stride, and Speak With Plants actually lets you do most of that anyway.
Personally, I think the Primal Orders: Warden is a trap. All druids used to get medium armor proficiencies, so its really shitty that now its something you have to choose. Personally, I will likely be playing with a homebrew that all druids get their medium armor proficiency, and Warden, grants temp hp at the start of every long rest equal to their wisdom modifier, and every time they wild shape, they can also add their wisdom modifier to the temp hp they get from wild shape. I think this would be a much better change. The cleric divine order options are actually good, because of how the class was before, but I think the Druid's Primal Orders just cant compare. So I will probably be working with that homebrew change myself
I think Primal Order: Warden is bad, because it takes away medium armor proficiency, something druids already normally got on their own, and now it's a choice. My homebrew fix for it, will likely be the Warden gives the druid temp hp at the start of every long rest equal to their wisdom modifier, and whenever they wildshape, they can add their wisdom modifier to the temp hp they get. Do you think this would be a good alternate, considering you wish they had some kind of +# they can add to the temp hp? Personally, I would much rather make that choice between druids, and give them all medium armor.
That would be tough to impliment, because extra attack is a such a good feature, but I totally agree that it's needed if they go that route.
Uh... are you talking to yourself? 🤨
In theory 2014 Druids had Medium Armor proficiency, but in practice that just meant Hide (the second-worst armor in the game next to Padded), because every other medium armor was made of metal and many DMs enforced the metal armor restriction. Warden is meant to split the difference - giving druids an easy way to wear actually good medium armor, without just turning them into Nature Clerics. Druids get to wear metal medium armor now, but they take a hit to their spellcasting and knowledge relative to clerics who do the same.
Primal Orders is a net positive.
2014 Medium armor (Hide) and simple weapons.
2024 Choice between
Medium Armor (any) and Martial Weapons - net gain
Light Armor (lose Hide) but get Cantrip plus skill bonuses.
This nets you higher base AC, something all subclasses benefit from at certain points (including Moon but less often) or playing a more backline caster role.
I'm not sure I understand. Could you elaborate, please?
What they're saying is with Elemental Wildshape removed from Druid in the 2024 PHB you can no longer go to, for example, the elemental plane of fire, wildshaped into a Fire Elemental and survive easily. I would assume your average player race/species would not survive long there.
EZD6 by DM Scotty
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/397599/EZD6-Core-Rulebook?
According to this page 2024 DnD 5e Transition Guide and Change Log: "You can use Wild Shape again without returning to your original form"
I thought this was already possible/allowed with the 2014 rules.
The new wild shape temp hp is the worst thing about the new druid stuff maybe if it was a little more but personally I will just continue to use the old druid stuff. All the other stuff is really nice but it make the druid more of a caster type deal with a week amount of hp now. If a dm doesn't let me use the old then I just don't play a druid then even though it's one of the few classes I do like I may agree that the 35 may have been too much at level 2 but only giving 6 hp for moon druids at level 2 is taking away a lot of there survivability. there would have been multiple times playing a druid were I would have been knocked unconscious from just that little extra temp hp. sure you get too keep your wild shape and don't get knocked out and maybe your ac is a little higher but none of that matters if your down for the count. But shrug some people may like the new rules and that is fine too. for me personally it takes the fun out of it.
It feels to me like they went overboard on trying to balance everything.
- My moon druid now loses the very powerful hit point pools from their wild shapes
+ My moon druid receives better AC, which was a big weakness for some beasts
- My moon druid can no longer wild shape into an elemental
+ My moon druid now gets some extra "elemental" damage
- My moon druid's wild shape forms appear to also be nerfed (lower to hit; lower damage; Blind Sight removed; no more Keen Smell or Keen Hearing)
+ My moon druid gets extra damage added at higher levels (especially with Conjure Minor Elementals which is probably broken and will be nerfed in the future)
So, instead of having big weaknesses, and big strengths that I need to strategize around, it's all more "balanced". It seems like a bowl of vanilla ice cream.