I'm a little concerned with Ranger 2024. Because for two reasons:
1 - The Ranger's evolution revolves around the Hunter's Mark magic then what happens if a wizard casts the dispel magic or silence spellon the Ranger?
2 - What happens if a player wants to use another spell that uses concentration, for example Swift Quiver?
1) Then they burned their action and a 3rd-level slot to remove one of your free 1st-level bonus action spells. Or they burned a 2nd-level slot to do nothing because yours lasts 1-8 hours. You just won; recast it and attack, and hopefully they're dumb enough to keep doing it.
2) Then you gave up the HM damage for the Swift Quiver damage. Most of the time the latter is going to do more, but that's why its a 5th-level spell.
honestly what i think would have helped rangers is an extra feat around 6th or 8th level
They're already half-casters with Extra Attack, a bonus ASI would be overkill imo.
All they really need is a better capstone - say, removing concentration from HM in addition to the 1d10 boost. Or if they insist on keeping concentration, the boost should be more dramatic, like going from 1d6 per hit to 3d6, or adding Wis to attack and damage like they did in the playtest.
My issues are twofold. Too many class features depend on using Hunter's Mark, so it's a case of "Use this first level spell or lose a LOT of class features!", which isn't good design IMO, and the weaksauce capstone. 2 points of damage per attack? Monks get that, and +4 to AC, and +2 to hit, and +2 to stunning fist DC. Notice the fact that I said "and" 3 times.
On the other had, many of those "lost" class features are at levels I rarely get to play at - the DM's who run in my group will be planning the next campaign well before I see them. And that's even more true of the Lodestone, I mean capstone.
My issues are twofold. Too many class features depend on using Hunter's Mark, so it's a case of "Use this first level spell or lose a LOT of class features!", which isn't good design IMO, and the weaksauce capstone. 2 points of damage per attack? Monks get that, and +4 to AC, and +2 to hit, and +2 to stunning fist DC. Notice the fact that I said "and" 3 times.
On the other had, many of those "lost" class features are at levels I rarely get to play at - the DM's who run in my group will be planning the next campaign well before I see them. And that's even more true of the Lodestone, I mean capstone.
This! While other classes may be known for key spells and have features to support those, the class features themselves do not hinge on that spell and leaves you a choice to just not take it and still have a lot of flexibility as far as functional build goes. Like, yes, Warlocks have Eldritch Blast and Eldritch Invocations to power-up the cantrip, but you don't have to take EB in order to use your Warlock class features.
This is what frustrates me so much about the new Ranger build. Players wanted to feel like Rangers didn't have to take Hunter's Mark. Instead, Wotc made the class hinge on the spell to get half of the abilities Ranger offers. That just isn't a reasonable replacement for Favored Foe or Favored Enemy. It also ignores the complaints about the Favored Foe feature from Tasha's. I don't understand how they thought this was a good idea.
The new class update still sounds exciting and I do look forward to getting to be able to play it when the time comes. However, I feel like WotC has a bad habit of taking a step towards correcting the issues players have with Ranger and some of its subclasses, and then giving them a feature that knocks it back three steps and completely takes away from those good changes.
I wish they had made Rangers to be the Fighter's version of the Warlock where the Ranger is a very modular Fighter. To be given the choice of some Nature Invocation for ambush (sneak attacks), or for an Animal Companion, for tracking, etc.
how come the clerics "invoke duplicity" lost its concentration cost even tho it got buffed but the ranger had to keep theirs? their reasoning? "you couldnt have any of the clerics nice concentration spells going simultaneously" the heck? the ranger is a half caster and the cleric is a full caster yet that subclass gets to use their subclass feature all the time with other concentration spells but the ranger cant? what were they scared of swift quiver and HM doing a little extra damage? plus the war cleric gets free no concentration spells on short rest.
the war cleric gets Steel Wind Strike! why? that was a ranger only spell
Honestly not a fan of this either because Steel Wind Strike was never balanced as a 5th level spell, it was balanced as a ranger spell they got around level 17. When they gave it to Wizards, it just became one of those "Yep, this is the spell you take" at this level type spells.
the war cleric gets Steel Wind Strike! why? that was a ranger only spell
Honestly not a fan of this either because Steel Wind Strike was never balanced as a 5th level spell, it was balanced as a ranger spell they got around level 17. When they gave it to Wizards, it just became one of those "Yep, this is the spell you take" at this level type spells.
Now that the Bard video is out we now know that they can’t use Magical Secrets to get SWS. It’s not on the 2014 wizard spell list so they can’t get it there either. So at least Unique spells (including Ranger, Paladin, sorcerer, and warlock exclusive spells) are safe. Including Eldritch Blast from Magic Initiate feat.
the war cleric gets Steel Wind Strike! why? that was a ranger only spell
Honestly not a fan of this either because Steel Wind Strike was never balanced as a 5th level spell, it was balanced as a ranger spell they got around level 17. When they gave it to Wizards, it just became one of those "Yep, this is the spell you take" at this level type spells.
Now that the Bard video is out we now know that they can’t use Magical Secrets to get SWS. It’s not on the 2014 wizard spell list so they can’t get it there either. So at least Unique spells (including Ranger, Paladin, sorcerer, and warlock exclusive spells) are safe. Including Eldritch Blast from Magic Initiate feat.
the war cleric gets Steel Wind Strike! why? that was a ranger only spell
Honestly not a fan of this either because Steel Wind Strike was never balanced as a 5th level spell, it was balanced as a ranger spell they got around level 17. When they gave it to Wizards, it just became one of those "Yep, this is the spell you take" at this level type spells.
Now that the Bard video is out we now know that they can’t use Magical Secrets to get SWS. It’s not on the 2014 wizard spell list so they can’t get it there either. So at least Unique spells (including Ranger, Paladin, sorcerer, and warlock exclusive spells) are safe. Including Eldritch Blast from Magic Initiate feat.
When I look at the PHB on DDB and go to wizard spells it doesn’t show. It was added in Xanathar’s. So I assume in the 2024 PHB it will not be a wizard spell. And a DM can absolutely say if they transition to the 2024 rules the additional spells outside of the 2024 PHB are not allowed
the war cleric gets Steel Wind Strike! why? that was a ranger only spell
Honestly not a fan of this either because Steel Wind Strike was never balanced as a 5th level spell, it was balanced as a ranger spell they got around level 17. When they gave it to Wizards, it just became one of those "Yep, this is the spell you take" at this level type spells.
Now that the Bard video is out we now know that they can’t use Magical Secrets to get SWS. It’s not on the 2014 wizard spell list so they can’t get it there either. So at least Unique spells (including Ranger, Paladin, sorcerer, and warlock exclusive spells) are safe. Including Eldritch Blast from Magic Initiate feat.
When I look at the PHB on DDB and go to wizard spells it doesn’t show. It was added in Xanathar’s. So I assume in the 2024 PHB it will not be a wizard spell. And a DM can absolutely say if they transition to the 2024 rules the additional spells outside of the 2024 PHB are not allowed
They’re adding several spells from Xanathar’s and from Tasha’s, so extrapolating from the spell-lists in the 2014 PHB is not reliable.
the war cleric gets Steel Wind Strike! why? that was a ranger only spell
Honestly not a fan of this either because Steel Wind Strike was never balanced as a 5th level spell, it was balanced as a ranger spell they got around level 17. When they gave it to Wizards, it just became one of those "Yep, this is the spell you take" at this level type spells.
Now that the Bard video is out we now know that they can’t use Magical Secrets to get SWS. It’s not on the 2014 wizard spell list so they can’t get it there either. So at least Unique spells (including Ranger, Paladin, sorcerer, and warlock exclusive spells) are safe. Including Eldritch Blast from Magic Initiate feat.
When I look at the PHB on DDB and go to wizard spells it doesn’t show. It was added in Xanathar’s. So I assume in the 2024 PHB it will not be a wizard spell. And a DM can absolutely say if they transition to the 2024 rules the additional spells outside of the 2024 PHB are not allowed
They’re adding several spells from Xanathar’s and from Tasha’s, so extrapolating from the spell-lists in the 2014 PHB is not reliable.
That’s true. But we do know all spells from 2014 PHB will be in this PHB. Until we see the new lists we will not know what all from those other books (besides ones explicitly mentioned already in the videos) will move to the new PHB. For all we know SWS (unless they mentioned it and I missed it) may not make it to the PHB.
It could very well be Ranger exclusive. We just don’t know at this point.
the war cleric gets Steel Wind Strike! why? that was a ranger only spell
Honestly not a fan of this either because Steel Wind Strike was never balanced as a 5th level spell, it was balanced as a ranger spell they got around level 17. When they gave it to Wizards, it just became one of those "Yep, this is the spell you take" at this level type spells.
Now that the Bard video is out we now know that they can’t use Magical Secrets to get SWS. It’s not on the 2014 wizard spell list so they can’t get it there either. So at least Unique spells (including Ranger, Paladin, sorcerer, and warlock exclusive spells) are safe. Including Eldritch Blast from Magic Initiate feat.
When I look at the PHB on DDB and go to wizard spells it doesn’t show. It was added in Xanathar’s. So I assume in the 2024 PHB it will not be a wizard spell. And a DM can absolutely say if they transition to the 2024 rules the additional spells outside of the 2024 PHB are not allowed
They’re adding several spells from Xanathar’s and from Tasha’s, so extrapolating from the spell-lists in the 2014 PHB is not reliable.
That’s true. But we do know all spells from 2014 PHB will be in this PHB. Until we see the new lists we will not know what all from those other books (besides ones explicitly mentioned already in the videos) will move to the new PHB. For all we know SWS (unless they mentioned it and I missed it) may not make it to the PHB.
It could very well be Ranger exclusive. We just don’t know at this point.
the war cleric gets Steel Wind Strike! why? that was a ranger only spell
Honestly not a fan of this either because Steel Wind Strike was never balanced as a 5th level spell, it was balanced as a ranger spell they got around level 17. When they gave it to Wizards, it just became one of those "Yep, this is the spell you take" at this level type spells.
Now that the Bard video is out we now know that they can’t use Magical Secrets to get SWS. It’s not on the 2014 wizard spell list so they can’t get it there either. So at least Unique spells (including Ranger, Paladin, sorcerer, and warlock exclusive spells) are safe. Including Eldritch Blast from Magic Initiate feat.
When I look at the PHB on DDB and go to wizard spells it doesn’t show. It was added in Xanathar’s. So I assume in the 2024 PHB it will not be a wizard spell. And a DM can absolutely say if they transition to the 2024 rules the additional spells outside of the 2024 PHB are not allowed
They’re adding several spells from Xanathar’s and from Tasha’s, so extrapolating from the spell-lists in the 2014 PHB is not reliable.
That’s true. But we do know all spells from 2014 PHB will be in this PHB. Until we see the new lists we will not know what all from those other books (besides ones explicitly mentioned already in the videos) will move to the new PHB. For all we know SWS (unless they mentioned it and I missed it) may not make it to the PHB.
It could very well be Ranger exclusive. We just don’t know at this point.
it was pointed out in the clerics video
Thanks for pointing that out. And I had missed it in the quote above <facepalm>
I don’t like the idea of SWS being on the war cleric additional spells but at least it’s only that one subclass. I hope it isn’t on the wizard list in the 2024 PHB to keep Wizards and all Bards from also having it.
how that youve seen all the classes how are you feeling about the ranger? still feel like its fine? or think it needed another pass? scrapped? or think its amazing? would love to hear your thoughts
I don't like spells, so I wish Ranger could have "passive magic" instead (like the Adepts of Shadowrun), or able to trade spells for other.
I'm sorry, what is it about these spells that's worrying you?
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Rolling dice and crafting epic tales, one adventure at a time. As a Dungeon Master and proud adventurer in the realms of D&D, I love spending my free time helping others create well-rounded characters. I'd be really happy if you could check out my new tool, which I designed to make life easier for players!
I think I like the Ranger changes overall. I just hope that most of the Ranger's old Bonus Action spells dont need concentration so I dont have to recast Hunters mark constantly.
how that youve seen all the classes how are you feeling about the ranger? still feel like its fine? or think it needed another pass? scrapped? or think its amazing? would love to hear your thoughts.
We haven’t actually seen any of the classes. We’ve seen what amounts to a movie preview trailer for them. To make an actual judgment, we’ll need to see not only the full text of each class, but also any changes to spells and changes to other rules. And even then, we’ll need to play before we can really tell; there’s been lots of things that look one way in the book (too weak or too strong) but play completely differently.
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honestly what i think would have helped rangers is an extra feat around 6th or 8th level
1) Then they burned their action and a 3rd-level slot to remove one of your free 1st-level bonus action spells. Or they burned a 2nd-level slot to do nothing because yours lasts 1-8 hours. You just won; recast it and attack, and hopefully they're dumb enough to keep doing it.
2) Then you gave up the HM damage for the Swift Quiver damage. Most of the time the latter is going to do more, but that's why its a 5th-level spell.
They're already half-casters with Extra Attack, a bonus ASI would be overkill imo.
All they really need is a better capstone - say, removing concentration from HM in addition to the 1d10 boost. Or if they insist on keeping concentration, the boost should be more dramatic, like going from 1d6 per hit to 3d6, or adding Wis to attack and damage like they did in the playtest.
My issues are twofold. Too many class features depend on using Hunter's Mark, so it's a case of "Use this first level spell or lose a LOT of class features!", which isn't good design IMO, and the weaksauce capstone. 2 points of damage per attack? Monks get that, and +4 to AC, and +2 to hit, and +2 to stunning fist DC. Notice the fact that I said "and" 3 times.
On the other had, many of those "lost" class features are at levels I rarely get to play at - the DM's who run in my group will be planning the next campaign well before I see them. And that's even more true of the Lodestone, I mean capstone.
This! While other classes may be known for key spells and have features to support those, the class features themselves do not hinge on that spell and leaves you a choice to just not take it and still have a lot of flexibility as far as functional build goes. Like, yes, Warlocks have Eldritch Blast and Eldritch Invocations to power-up the cantrip, but you don't have to take EB in order to use your Warlock class features.
This is what frustrates me so much about the new Ranger build. Players wanted to feel like Rangers didn't have to take Hunter's Mark. Instead, Wotc made the class hinge on the spell to get half of the abilities Ranger offers. That just isn't a reasonable replacement for Favored Foe or Favored Enemy. It also ignores the complaints about the Favored Foe feature from Tasha's. I don't understand how they thought this was a good idea.
The new class update still sounds exciting and I do look forward to getting to be able to play it when the time comes. However, I feel like WotC has a bad habit of taking a step towards correcting the issues players have with Ranger and some of its subclasses, and then giving them a feature that knocks it back three steps and completely takes away from those good changes.
I wish they had made Rangers to be the Fighter's version of the Warlock where the Ranger is a very modular Fighter. To be given the choice of some Nature Invocation for ambush (sneak attacks), or for an Animal Companion, for tracking, etc.
how come the clerics "invoke duplicity" lost its concentration cost even tho it got buffed but the ranger had to keep theirs? their reasoning? "you couldnt have any of the clerics nice concentration spells going simultaneously" the heck? the ranger is a half caster and the cleric is a full caster yet that subclass gets to use their subclass feature all the time with other concentration spells but the ranger cant? what were they scared of swift quiver and HM doing a little extra damage? plus the war cleric gets free no concentration spells on short rest.
the war cleric gets Steel Wind Strike! why? that was a ranger only spell
Honestly not a fan of this either because Steel Wind Strike was never balanced as a 5th level spell, it was balanced as a ranger spell they got around level 17. When they gave it to Wizards, it just became one of those "Yep, this is the spell you take" at this level type spells.
Now that the Bard video is out we now know that they can’t use Magical Secrets to get SWS. It’s not on the 2014 wizard spell list so they can’t get it there either. So at least Unique spells (including Ranger, Paladin, sorcerer, and warlock exclusive spells) are safe. Including Eldritch Blast from Magic Initiate feat.
EZD6 by DM Scotty
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/397599/EZD6-Core-Rulebook?
It's on the wizard spell list, so the Bard can take SWS.
https://www.dndbeyond.com/sources/dnd/xgte/spells#SpellLists
When I look at the PHB on DDB and go to wizard spells it doesn’t show. It was added in Xanathar’s. So I assume in the 2024 PHB it will not be a wizard spell. And a DM can absolutely say if they transition to the 2024 rules the additional spells outside of the 2024 PHB are not allowed
And that seems to be their intent as well
EZD6 by DM Scotty
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/397599/EZD6-Core-Rulebook?
They’re adding several spells from Xanathar’s and from Tasha’s, so extrapolating from the spell-lists in the 2014 PHB is not reliable.
That’s true. But we do know all spells from 2014 PHB will be in this PHB. Until we see the new lists we will not know what all from those other books (besides ones explicitly mentioned already in the videos) will move to the new PHB. For all we know SWS (unless they mentioned it and I missed it) may not make it to the PHB.
It could very well be Ranger exclusive. We just don’t know at this point.
EZD6 by DM Scotty
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/397599/EZD6-Core-Rulebook?
it was pointed out in the clerics video
I don't like spells, so I wish Ranger could have "passive magic" instead (like the Adepts of Shadowrun), or able to trade spells for other.
Vifarc Cordelibre, the most unique ranger-tank, the wood-elf heavy-ranger.
Thanks for pointing that out. And I had missed it in the quote above <facepalm>
I don’t like the idea of SWS being on the war cleric additional spells but at least it’s only that one subclass. I hope it isn’t on the wizard list in the 2024 PHB to keep Wizards and all Bards from also having it.
EZD6 by DM Scotty
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/397599/EZD6-Core-Rulebook?
how that youve seen all the classes how are you feeling about the ranger? still feel like its fine? or think it needed another pass? scrapped? or think its amazing? would love to hear your thoughts
I'm sorry, what is it about these spells that's worrying you?
Rolling dice and crafting epic tales, one adventure at a time. As a Dungeon Master and proud adventurer in the realms of D&D, I love spending my free time helping others create well-rounded characters. I'd be really happy if you could check out my new tool, which I designed to make life easier for players!
I think I like the Ranger changes overall. I just hope that most of the Ranger's old Bonus Action spells dont need concentration so I dont have to recast Hunters mark constantly.
We haven’t actually seen any of the classes. We’ve seen what amounts to a movie preview trailer for them. To make an actual judgment, we’ll need to see not only the full text of each class, but also any changes to spells and changes to other rules.
And even then, we’ll need to play before we can really tell; there’s been lots of things that look one way in the book (too weak or too strong) but play completely differently.