1st impression, the book is filled with great art, and some cool upgrades. 😎But organization....poop. monsters are ALL listed by individual alphabetical order. Hill giants in H, frost giant in F, etc with
NO FRIKKIN INDEX!!!
If you don't already know that a particular variant of critters exists, you will likely miss it without memorizing the book. Also for example, minotaur has 'minotaur of Baphomet' with abyssal powers, but no just..minotaur.
If you don't already know that a particular variant of critters exists, you will likely miss it without memorizing the book. Also for example, minotaur has 'minotaur of Baphomet' with abyssal powers, but no just..minotaur.
The "just Minotaur" is the playable one, found in MPMM. They're intentionally distinguishing the playable humanoid one in that book from the monstrous... monster found in this one.
It's not like the playable one was in the 2014 MM either.
1st impression, the book is filled with great art, and some cool upgrades. 😎But organization....poop. monsters are ALL listed by individual alphabetical order. Hill giants in H, frost giant in F, etc with
NO FRIKKIN INDEX!!!
If you don't already know that a particular variant of critters exists, you will likely miss it without memorizing the book. Also for example, minotaur has 'minotaur of Baphomet' with abyssal powers, but no just..minotaur.
Greetings SirEvangelos,
I'm glad you are appreciating the great art, and some cool upgrades in the new 2024 Monster Manual, I do agree that the art is beautiful and love everything I am seeing so far.
Having monsters in alphabetical order by type seems like a great choice to me, but I guess it is not for everyone.
As far a the 2024 Monster Manual not having an Index, I'm not sure what you are referring to, as the version that I purchased does indeed have an Index:
As far as not having a 'base' Minotaur, you will notice there are a few monsters that no longer have a 'base' version in the MM as this was a design choice by D&D. For the most part, if a 'Species' is playable as a character, then it was removed as you can create them yourself the way you want to build them in the character creation section. What you will see are Stat Blocks for things like "Assassin", "Bandits", "Commoner", "Cultists", all the way to "Warriors".
You pick the type of character you want then tweak them if they are a Species other than Human to give them some color.
To me this is MUCH more helpful than the 2014 version, but I know that everyone has their specific preferences.
Cheers!
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Breathe, dragons; sing of the First World, forged out of chaos and painted with beauty. Sing of Bahamut, the Platinum, molding the shape of the mountains and rivers; Sing too of Chromatic Tiamat, painting all over the infinite canvas. Partnered, they woke in the darkness; partnered, they labored in acts of creation.
The index given is more of a table of contents in that everything is listed, but not by type. A true index has things listed by type with individual breakdown for ease of search in alphabetical order.
'Having monsters in alphabetical order by type seems like a great choice to me, but I guess it is not for everyone.'
The monsters are not in alphabetical order by type. Dragons of each color are together, but in different areas of the book. Giants of each type are all over the book in their different alphabet areas. Devils, Hags, Slaad, Golems are all scattered around the book instead of being together for ease of use.
It is something an experienced DM can overcome but someone new to the game and all the possibilities for monster variants could struggle to use.
'For the most part, if a 'Species' is playable as a character, then it was removed as you can create them yourself the way you want to build them in the character creation section. You pick the type of character you want then tweak them if they are a Species other than Human to give them some color.'
This is a great deal more work for a DM with any sort of a full non-game life, as instead of having monster stat blocks I can grab and use I have to create the monsters. If a person wants to create character monsters there were already mechanics for that as the races were playable, but forcing that process eats into already precious prep time.
This is a great deal more work for a DM with any sort of a full non-game life, as instead of having monster stat blocks I can grab and use I have to create the monsters. If a person wants to create character monsters there were already mechanics for that as the races were playable, but forcing that process eats into already precious prep time.
This is hyperbolic - to the point of being almost nonsensical. If you want an orc, you take the base job template and remember it has relentless endurance. Want a Dragonborn? Great, now it has a breath attack. It does not take “precious time” - it takes a couple seconds max.
Wizards apparently has more faith in their players than some players have in themselves.
1st) Save the DM time by providing a list of monsters pre-made and ready to go
2nd) When building modules, you can use the monster manual monsters to save time and space.
The 2024 MM fails on both points. If you are fighting off a ravenous horde of orcs, you no longer have a base stat. Instead the "suggestion" is to reskin existing NPC's, which takes additional time. Even worse, it helps to take away again from the distinctiveness of the monsters in the first place.
When building modules, the MM is the default and allows you to put in the monsters name and the DM can use the MM to fill in the stat block. Dropping entire lines of monsters is not helping people building modules. Without standardization, modules are going to widely sway from encounter difficulties.
Lastly, all but removing humanoids removes a common technique used for 50 years when interrogating humanoids, namely charm person. For instance, making goblins fey and lizard men water elementals removes a low level party from being able to use charm person to get information out of them.
I was looking at the monster manual but some of these changes are going to cause a lot of issues on VTT's when casting spells due to changes to monster type. I'm going to have to pass on the MM. I'm not going to spend time fixing WotC's design decisions to maintain game play.
If you are fighting off a ravenous horde of orcs, you no longer have a base stat.
Because orcs, like every other humanoid, are defined by their profession/role. This is like being mad that there is no "Human" or "Dwarf" statblock anymore.
Instead the "suggestion" is to reskin existing NPC's, which takes additional time. Even worse, it helps to take away again from the distinctiveness of the monsters in the first place.
It's actually MORE distinctive, because the NPC statblocks can now have any species traits you want. Want a squad of Harengon warriors that can rabbit hop to the front line? You can do that. Want a Goliath Tough to be the town bully? You can do that. Want a Kenku Spy that uses their mimicry and expert forgery skills to evade security? You can do that now too. None of those statblocks existed before. And as Caerwyn stated, this takes seconds unless you're really dragging your feet for some reason.
Instead the "suggestion" is to reskin existing NPC's, which takes additional time. Even worse, it helps to take away again from the distinctiveness of the monsters in the first place.
It's actually MORE distinctive, because the NPC statblocks can now have any species traits you want. Want a squad of Harengon warriors that can rabbit hop to the front line? You can do that. Want a Goliath Tough to be the town bully? You can do that. Want a Kenku Spy that uses their mimicry and expert forgery skills to evade security? You can do that now too. None of those statblocks existed before. And as Caerwyn stated, this takes seconds unless you're really dragging your feet for some reason.
There isn't actually any text that tells you to do that in the Monster Manual. The free published adventure that uses the MM 2024 statblocks, "Hold Back The Dead" does not do this for the Halfling Knight NPC who appears in it, it just uses the Knight statblock unmodified.
You can do whatever you want in your game, of course. I probably would layer player species features on top in mine.
But the apparent official WotC position is that you just use the unmodified "Tough" statblock for J. Random Monster Orc.
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🎵I'm on top of the world, looking down on creation, wreaking death and devastation with my mind.
As the power that I've found erupts freely from the ground, I will cackle from the top of the world.🎵
There isn't actually any text that tells you to do that in the Monster Manual.
That's because it's in the DMG - pgs 56-57.
Those are the rules for Custom Creatures. They're not intended as a blueprint for layering Player species atop Humanoid Monster Statblocks. It's definitely not what the official published adventure is doing. If the official intention was to layer player species atop the Humanoid statblocks, that guidance should be in the Monster Manual. Especially given that several player species have level-gated features.
A Scout is a Humanoid Monster Statblock. While it does have three hit dice, its not a Level 3 Character. Is an Infernal Tiefling Scout able to use Firebolt at will and Hellish Rebuke once per day? Maybe? But if , as the publisher of the book, that's what you want people to do, put it in the darn book, and do the same thing in your published adventures.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
🎵I'm on top of the world, looking down on creation, wreaking death and devastation with my mind.
As the power that I've found erupts freely from the ground, I will cackle from the top of the world.🎵
There isn't actually any text that tells you to do that in the Monster Manual.
That's because it's in the DMG - pgs 56-57.
Those are the rules for Custom Creatures. They're not intended as a blueprint for layering Player species atop Humanoid Monster Statblocks. It's definitely not what the official published adventure is doing. If the official intention was to layer player species atop the Humanoid statblocks, that guidance should be in the Monster Manual. Especially given that several player species have level-gated features.
A Scout is a Humanoid Monster Statblock. While it does have three hit dice, its not a Level 3 Character. Is an Infernal Tiefling Scout able to use Firebolt at will and Hellish Rebuke once per day? Maybe? But if , as the publisher of the book, that's what you want people to do, put it in the darn book, and do the same thing in your published adventures.
Also when homebrewing, one thing that WotC ignored, or is using as a feature is millennial generation is low on individualism compared to other generations. They tend to be RAW type players. As a group, its unlikely they'll like fighting a knight who would get older edition MM racial bonuses if they were a drow. It'll be interesting to see if someone is running a straight 6E MM for convention play with a lot of different players if they'd be ok with adding racials to the new npcs in the mm.
Let's not forget the other glaring omission no rules for CR. A lot of us expected the MM would take it up, it didn't. And the 5E CR rules are not really accurate, and have a lot of problems for tier 3 and 4.
Those are the rules for Custom Creatures. They're not intended as a blueprint for layering Player species atop Humanoid Monster Statblocks.
Those are the rules for adding traits of your choice to an existing statblock. Species traits are traits.
If you want to stick with your humanoids being only cosmetic, you're of course free to do that too (heck, it's probably a lot easier in play), but it seems odd to me to choose to do that and then turn around and complain there's no way to add the traits you want.
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1st impression, the book is filled with great art, and some cool upgrades. 😎But organization....poop. monsters are ALL listed by individual alphabetical order. Hill giants in H, frost giant in F, etc with
NO FRIKKIN INDEX!!!
If you don't already know that a particular variant of critters exists, you will likely miss it without memorizing the book. Also for example, minotaur has 'minotaur of Baphomet' with abyssal powers, but no just..minotaur.
Its a bizarre set of choices.
Hill Giant under H but Dire Worg under W.
Lists of monsters without the page number, making it slower to flip to the page.
Vampires that do barely any damage, goblins that have no way to get the advantage, dragons that are a shadow of their 2014 self.
Usually I like all the 5e books, but this one really hurts, maybe because it was late and got rushed out.
The "just Minotaur" is the playable one, found in MPMM. They're intentionally distinguishing the playable humanoid one in that book from the monstrous... monster found in this one.
It's not like the playable one was in the 2014 MM either.
Goblin warriors, goblin minions, and goblin bosses all have nimble escape with which to hide as a bonus action with +6 stealth. The goblin hexer doesn't have nimble escape but they also don't have a sneak-attack bonus.
Curious what you mean by them not having a way to get the advantage.
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Fair enough, I was only thinking of standing and bashing, its a good point.
Greetings SirEvangelos,
I'm glad you are appreciating the great art, and some cool upgrades in the new 2024 Monster Manual, I do agree that the art is beautiful and love everything I am seeing so far.
Having monsters in alphabetical order by type seems like a great choice to me, but I guess it is not for everyone.
As far a the 2024 Monster Manual not having an Index, I'm not sure what you are referring to, as the version that I purchased does indeed have an Index:
As far as not having a 'base' Minotaur, you will notice there are a few monsters that no longer have a 'base' version in the MM as this was a design choice by D&D.
For the most part, if a 'Species' is playable as a character, then it was removed as you can create them yourself the way you want to build them in the character creation section.
What you will see are Stat Blocks for things like "Assassin", "Bandits", "Commoner", "Cultists", all the way to "Warriors".
You pick the type of character you want then tweak them if they are a Species other than Human to give them some color.
To me this is MUCH more helpful than the 2014 version, but I know that everyone has their specific preferences.
Cheers!
Breathe, dragons; sing of the First World, forged out of chaos and painted with beauty.
Sing of Bahamut, the Platinum, molding the shape of the mountains and rivers;
Sing too of Chromatic Tiamat, painting all over the infinite canvas.
Partnered, they woke in the darkness; partnered, they labored in acts of creation.
The index given is more of a table of contents in that everything is listed, but not by type. A true index has things listed by type with individual breakdown for ease of search in alphabetical order.
'Having monsters in alphabetical order by type seems like a great choice to me, but I guess it is not for everyone.'
The monsters are not in alphabetical order by type. Dragons of each color are together, but in different areas of the book. Giants of each type are all over the book in their different alphabet areas. Devils, Hags, Slaad, Golems are all scattered around the book instead of being together for ease of use.
It is something an experienced DM can overcome but someone new to the game and all the possibilities for monster variants could struggle to use.
'For the most part, if a 'Species' is playable as a character, then it was removed as you can create them yourself the way you want to build them in the character creation section. You pick the type of character you want then tweak them if they are a Species other than Human to give them some color.'
This is a great deal more work for a DM with any sort of a full non-game life, as instead of having monster stat blocks I can grab and use I have to create the monsters. If a person wants to create character monsters there were already mechanics for that as the races were playable, but forcing that process eats into already precious prep time.
Most people do not get paid to play.
But, the Lich and Dracolich bumps? Awesome!
Evangelos.
This is hyperbolic - to the point of being almost nonsensical. If you want an orc, you take the base job template and remember it has relentless endurance. Want a Dragonborn? Great, now it has a breath attack. It does not take “precious time” - it takes a couple seconds max.
Wizards apparently has more faith in their players than some players have in themselves.
The purpose of the monster manual is two fold
1st) Save the DM time by providing a list of monsters pre-made and ready to go
2nd) When building modules, you can use the monster manual monsters to save time and space.
The 2024 MM fails on both points. If you are fighting off a ravenous horde of orcs, you no longer have a base stat. Instead the "suggestion" is to reskin existing NPC's, which takes additional time. Even worse, it helps to take away again from the distinctiveness of the monsters in the first place.
When building modules, the MM is the default and allows you to put in the monsters name and the DM can use the MM to fill in the stat block. Dropping entire lines of monsters is not helping people building modules. Without standardization, modules are going to widely sway from encounter difficulties.
Lastly, all but removing humanoids removes a common technique used for 50 years when interrogating humanoids, namely charm person. For instance, making goblins fey and lizard men water elementals removes a low level party from being able to use charm person to get information out of them.
I was looking at the monster manual but some of these changes are going to cause a lot of issues on VTT's when casting spells due to changes to monster type. I'm going to have to pass on the MM. I'm not going to spend time fixing WotC's design decisions to maintain game play.
It "fails" by doing both of those things?
Because orcs, like every other humanoid, are defined by their profession/role. This is like being mad that there is no "Human" or "Dwarf" statblock anymore.
It's actually MORE distinctive, because the NPC statblocks can now have any species traits you want. Want a squad of Harengon warriors that can rabbit hop to the front line? You can do that. Want a Goliath Tough to be the town bully? You can do that. Want a Kenku Spy that uses their mimicry and expert forgery skills to evade security? You can do that now too. None of those statblocks existed before. And as Caerwyn stated, this takes seconds unless you're really dragging your feet for some reason.
There isn't actually any text that tells you to do that in the Monster Manual. The free published adventure that uses the MM 2024 statblocks, "Hold Back The Dead" does not do this for the Halfling Knight NPC who appears in it, it just uses the Knight statblock unmodified.
You can do whatever you want in your game, of course. I probably would layer player species features on top in mine.
But the apparent official WotC position is that you just use the unmodified "Tough" statblock for J. Random Monster Orc.
🎵I'm on top of the world, looking down on creation, wreaking death and devastation with my mind.
As the power that I've found erupts freely from the ground, I will cackle from the top of the world.🎵
Charisma Saving Throw: DC 18, Failure: 20d6 Psychic Damage, Success: Half damage
That's because it's in the DMG - pgs 56-57.
Those are the rules for Custom Creatures. They're not intended as a blueprint for layering Player species atop Humanoid Monster Statblocks. It's definitely not what the official published adventure is doing. If the official intention was to layer player species atop the Humanoid statblocks, that guidance should be in the Monster Manual. Especially given that several player species have level-gated features.
A Scout is a Humanoid Monster Statblock. While it does have three hit dice, its not a Level 3 Character. Is an Infernal Tiefling Scout able to use Firebolt at will and Hellish Rebuke once per day? Maybe? But if , as the publisher of the book, that's what you want people to do, put it in the darn book, and do the same thing in your published adventures.
🎵I'm on top of the world, looking down on creation, wreaking death and devastation with my mind.
As the power that I've found erupts freely from the ground, I will cackle from the top of the world.🎵
Charisma Saving Throw: DC 18, Failure: 20d6 Psychic Damage, Success: Half damage
Also when homebrewing, one thing that WotC ignored, or is using as a feature is millennial generation is low on individualism compared to other generations. They tend to be RAW type players. As a group, its unlikely they'll like fighting a knight who would get older edition MM racial bonuses if they were a drow. It'll be interesting to see if someone is running a straight 6E MM for convention play with a lot of different players if they'd be ok with adding racials to the new npcs in the mm.
Let's not forget the other glaring omission no rules for CR. A lot of us expected the MM would take it up, it didn't. And the 5E CR rules are not really accurate, and have a lot of problems for tier 3 and 4.
Those are the rules for adding traits of your choice to an existing statblock. Species traits are traits.
If you want to stick with your humanoids being only cosmetic, you're of course free to do that too (heck, it's probably a lot easier in play), but it seems odd to me to choose to do that and then turn around and complain there's no way to add the traits you want.