They lost me with the OGL debacle, and every misstep and debacle and scandal that came after, just cemented that. But there's a new guy running the show. Without turning this into a huge debate and nitpicking what you THINK I mean, what is the general belief that this new guy will not continue the trend set by his predecessors? I'm like Fox Mulder, I want to believe. Believe that I can feel good about spending money for DDB specifically, something I invested in heavily even before WotC bought it out. Sure, I can "use " the content, in limited ways as a non-paid account. But I'm a forever DM, and I have friends that want me to run games again online, since we are spread across the country., and the best way for me to do that, is to use the DDB assets I already paid for years ago.
This isn't about that. It's about moving forward under the new guy. If you want the history of all the scandals, debacles, and missteps, you can find that on any D&D tuber channel.
This isn't about that. It's about moving forward under the new guy. If you want the history of all the scandals, debacles, and missteps, you can find that on any D&D tuber channel.
I'm assuming you're referring to DNDshorts(Serial liar about RAW & RAI to encourage gaming the rules+Refused to verify his inside sources(Same as Linda Cociega in this regard) to the detriment of his bait+blindly believed GlassDoor(A site where literally ANYONE can schmittalk an employer w/no verification of truth) because it aligned with his pre-determinations), Indestructoboy(Lied about AI usage by using a tool that used AI+abandoning those he championed to make his own game), Dungeons & Discourse, Professor DM, Crispy's Tales & Tea, etc.(Clickbaiters who lie all the time about sales, Critical Role & anything & everything they come across)?
Or someone else?
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
DM, player & homebrewer(Current homebrew project is an unofficial conversion of SBURB/SGRUB from Homestuck into DND 5e)
Once made Maxwell's Silver Hammer come down upon Strahd's head to make sure he was dead.
Always study & sharpen philosophical razors. They save a lot of trouble.
This isn't about that. It's about moving forward under the new guy. If you want the history of all the scandals, debacles, and missteps, you can find that on any D&D tuber channel.
Oh, I have an understanding about what happened, I was trying to see if our understandings matched. Since you won’t go, I will. The ogl was a whole lot of nothing. In short, a company said, we are going to do something. The customers said, we don’t want you to do that. The company (after what felt like way too long, but really wasn’t all that long) said ok, we won’t do that. In fact, we’ll go above and beyond everything our customers had even asked. That is the condensed version of what happened in the ogl.
Now, for reasons I don’t understand, people are still angry at that company for even considering it, rather than happy that the company listened to its customers.
My original question was to see your thoughts on the situation. Because if you were looking for clarity on what happened, I would try and have that discussion. But if you were one of the people still angry about a company that listened to its customers, I wasn’t planning to engage.
But here I am. So I will say that all the management folks around during the ogl have left, so there’s that. If you don’t trust WotC, that’s certainly your right. But I’m not sure what I or anyone else on the forums here could say to change your mind. So what is it you’re looking for?
This isn't about that. It's about moving forward under the new guy. If you want the history of all the scandals, debacles, and missteps, you can find that on any D&D tuber channel.
The reason the information is important is because it gives folks an idea of what the problems you perceived were, so they can respond about what has changed in a way tailored to you.
For the OGL matter, for example, there are lots of different understandings - a significant portion driven by individuals spreading misinformation or making a big issue over something that was truly, truly mundane. Some of these issues got resolved in a way that favored the players and third party creators - so if you are looking for a boon, the fact players won is a pretty big one. Other players unfortunately took issue with Wizards trying to protect the game from hate, which is a very different issue that would have a different type of response.
Letting folks know what your problems are, particularly when these issues were not monolithic, helps respondents provide more useful feedback.
And i wouldn't even say the WotC leadership was to blame for the OGL debacle. My read on the situation was that it was pressure from Hasboro execs who don't understand the product or the third-party market alienating the community to make a quick buck, while WotC had to take the blame and try to win back trust when it blew up in their face.
Was going to say something similar to the points raised by Xalthu and Caerwyn. The internet has sadly devolved into an ecosystem of largely misplaced anger, disinformation, and click/rage-baiting, and the D&D corner of the online TTRPG space is unfortunately not immune to that. When someone talks about a "debacle" or "scandal" around D&D it's genuinely difficult to be sure they're talking about an actual Bad Thing, a non-event that's been misrepresented or blown out of proportion, or something invented to drive views/clicks. Without volunteering information, I can't say what "trend" the OP is referring to that may or may not be continued, and if said "trend" is genuinely something problematic to begin with. As Caerwyn mentioned, a loud and cantankerous - but not actually large - portion of D&D players raised a stink about changes made to shed portrayals in the lore of certain species that mirrored real-world racism, as well as other efforts to keep hateful content out of 5E including third-party content. I certainly hope the OP isn't expecting to see that trend change, because it's been good for WotC, good for D&D, and good for welcoming players new and old to feel comfortable and included in the game.
Was going to say something similar to the points raised by Xalthu and Caerwyn. The internet has sadly devolved into an ecosystem of largely misplaced anger, disinformation, and click/rage-baiting, and the D&D corner of the online TTRPG space is unfortunately not immune to that. When someone talks about a "debacle" or "scandal" around D&D it's genuinely difficult to be sure they're talking about an actual Bad Thing, a non-event that's been misrepresented or blown out of proportion, or something invented to drive views/clicks. Without volunteering information, I can't say what "trend" the OP is referring to that may or may not be continued, and if said "trend" is genuinely something problematic to begin with. As Caerwyn mentioned, a loud and cantankerous - but not actually large - portion of D&D players raised a stink about changes made to shed portrayals in the lore of certain species that mirrored real-world racism, as well as other efforts to keep hateful content out of 5E including third-party content. I certainly hope the OP isn't expecting to see that trend change, because it's been good for WotC, good for D&D, and good for welcoming players new and old to feel comfortable and included in the game.
They're talking about how the current "guy" is allegedly a brand/IP killer by being hired at all, based on very selective places that this guy has worked at(Despite all the brands he didn't "kill"/were ruined anyway due to even higher management &/or shareholders' excessive greed). Some very angry & passionate fandoms have grudges easily exploited by Dungeons & Discourse, Professor DM & similar clickbait channels, with the residual fandom anger reignited & transposed doublefold onto WotC again with this one.
D&D is a game. I like playing D&D. And I have all the tools I need, both in paper and online, that I need to play that game. But if you're worried about spending money on a company that has done something nefarious, or even just merely distasteful, I've got bad news for you. They all have. From IBM to Apple, from Hugo Boss to Nike, from Dole to Nestle... compared to their crimes, the D&D OGL "debacle" is barely a kerfuffle.
D&D is a game. I like playing D&D. And I have all the tools I need, both in paper and online, that I need to play that game. But if you're worried about spending money on a company that has done something nefarious, or even just merely distasteful, I've got bad news for you. They all have. From IBM to Apple, from Hugo Boss to Nike, from Dole to Nestle... compared to their crimes, the D&D OGL "debacle" is barely a kerfuffle.
The current guy who's in charge of WotC on behalf of Hasbro.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
DM, player & homebrewer(Current homebrew project is an unofficial conversion of SBURB/SGRUB from Homestuck into DND 5e)
Once made Maxwell's Silver Hammer come down upon Strahd's head to make sure he was dead.
Always study & sharpen philosophical razors. They save a lot of trouble.
I have no idea who's in charge of WotC or Hasbro. None of the executives at either company are in my gaming group. You could make up a name and I'd believe you, and it wouldn't matter to me in the least, because my party will still be fighting an Arena full of evil snake cultists on Wednesday. I was playing D&D before the shenanigans, I played D&D during the shenanigans, and I'll be playing D&D long after the shenanigans have settled. Literally every single corporation in the history of the world has skeletons in its closet. If you want to avoid interacting with those skeletons, you should do what Dick Proenneke did back in 1968. And if that's a name you're not familiar with, go watch the documentary, "Alone in the Wilderness". It is truly breathtaking.
They lost me with the OGL debacle, and every misstep and debacle and scandal that came after, just cemented that. But there's a new guy running the show. Without turning this into a huge debate and nitpicking what you THINK I mean, what is the general belief that this new guy will not continue the trend set by his predecessors? I'm like Fox Mulder, I want to believe. Believe that I can feel good about spending money for DDB specifically, something I invested in heavily even before WotC bought it out. Sure, I can "use " the content, in limited ways as a non-paid account. But I'm a forever DM, and I have friends that want me to run games again online, since we are spread across the country., and the best way for me to do that, is to use the DDB assets I already paid for years ago.
Let me, instead of giving my recap, ask you. What did the ogl look like from your perspective?
And what is the scandal afterward you are referring to?
This isn't about that. It's about moving forward under the new guy. If you want the history of all the scandals, debacles, and missteps, you can find that on any D&D tuber channel.
I'm assuming you're referring to DNDshorts(Serial liar about RAW & RAI to encourage gaming the rules+Refused to verify his inside sources(Same as Linda Cociega in this regard) to the detriment of his bait+blindly believed GlassDoor(A site where literally ANYONE can schmittalk an employer w/no verification of truth) because it aligned with his pre-determinations), Indestructoboy(Lied about AI usage by using a tool that used AI+abandoning those he championed to make his own game), Dungeons & Discourse, Professor DM, Crispy's Tales & Tea, etc.(Clickbaiters who lie all the time about sales, Critical Role & anything & everything they come across)?
Or someone else?
DM, player & homebrewer(Current homebrew project is an unofficial conversion of SBURB/SGRUB from Homestuck into DND 5e)
Once made Maxwell's Silver Hammer come down upon Strahd's head to make sure he was dead.
Always study & sharpen philosophical razors. They save a lot of trouble.
Oh, I have an understanding about what happened, I was trying to see if our understandings matched. Since you won’t go, I will.
The ogl was a whole lot of nothing. In short, a company said, we are going to do something. The customers said, we don’t want you to do that. The company (after what felt like way too long, but really wasn’t all that long) said ok, we won’t do that. In fact, we’ll go above and beyond everything our customers had even asked. That is the condensed version of what happened in the ogl.
Now, for reasons I don’t understand, people are still angry at that company for even considering it, rather than happy that the company listened to its customers.
My original question was to see your thoughts on the situation. Because if you were looking for clarity on what happened, I would try and have that discussion. But if you were one of the people still angry about a company that listened to its customers, I wasn’t planning to engage.
But here I am. So I will say that all the management folks around during the ogl have left, so there’s that. If you don’t trust WotC, that’s certainly your right. But I’m not sure what I or anyone else on the forums here could say to change your mind. So what is it you’re looking for?
The reason the information is important is because it gives folks an idea of what the problems you perceived were, so they can respond about what has changed in a way tailored to you.
For the OGL matter, for example, there are lots of different understandings - a significant portion driven by individuals spreading misinformation or making a big issue over something that was truly, truly mundane. Some of these issues got resolved in a way that favored the players and third party creators - so if you are looking for a boon, the fact players won is a pretty big one. Other players unfortunately took issue with Wizards trying to protect the game from hate, which is a very different issue that would have a different type of response.
Letting folks know what your problems are, particularly when these issues were not monolithic, helps respondents provide more useful feedback.
And i wouldn't even say the WotC leadership was to blame for the OGL debacle. My read on the situation was that it was pressure from Hasboro execs who don't understand the product or the third-party market alienating the community to make a quick buck, while WotC had to take the blame and try to win back trust when it blew up in their face.
Was going to say something similar to the points raised by Xalthu and Caerwyn. The internet has sadly devolved into an ecosystem of largely misplaced anger, disinformation, and click/rage-baiting, and the D&D corner of the online TTRPG space is unfortunately not immune to that. When someone talks about a "debacle" or "scandal" around D&D it's genuinely difficult to be sure they're talking about an actual Bad Thing, a non-event that's been misrepresented or blown out of proportion, or something invented to drive views/clicks. Without volunteering information, I can't say what "trend" the OP is referring to that may or may not be continued, and if said "trend" is genuinely something problematic to begin with. As Caerwyn mentioned, a loud and cantankerous - but not actually large - portion of D&D players raised a stink about changes made to shed portrayals in the lore of certain species that mirrored real-world racism, as well as other efforts to keep hateful content out of 5E including third-party content. I certainly hope the OP isn't expecting to see that trend change, because it's been good for WotC, good for D&D, and good for welcoming players new and old to feel comfortable and included in the game.
They're talking about how the current "guy" is allegedly a brand/IP killer by being hired at all, based on very selective places that this guy has worked at(Despite all the brands he didn't "kill"/were ruined anyway due to even higher management &/or shareholders' excessive greed). Some very angry & passionate fandoms have grudges easily exploited by Dungeons & Discourse, Professor DM & similar clickbait channels, with the residual fandom anger reignited & transposed doublefold onto WotC again with this one.
DM, player & homebrewer(Current homebrew project is an unofficial conversion of SBURB/SGRUB from Homestuck into DND 5e)
Once made Maxwell's Silver Hammer come down upon Strahd's head to make sure he was dead.
Always study & sharpen philosophical razors. They save a lot of trouble.
New guy? What new guy?
D&D is a game. I like playing D&D. And I have all the tools I need, both in paper and online, that I need to play that game. But if you're worried about spending money on a company that has done something nefarious, or even just merely distasteful, I've got bad news for you. They all have. From IBM to Apple, from Hugo Boss to Nike, from Dole to Nestle... compared to their crimes, the D&D OGL "debacle" is barely a kerfuffle.
Anzio Faro. Protector Aasimar light cleric. Lvl 18.
Viktor Gavriil. White dragonborn grave cleric. Lvl 20.
Ikram Sahir ibn-Malik al-Sayyid Ra'ad. Brass dragonborn draconic sorcerer Lvl 9. Fire elemental devil.
Wrangler of cats.
The current guy who's in charge of WotC on behalf of Hasbro.
DM, player & homebrewer(Current homebrew project is an unofficial conversion of SBURB/SGRUB from Homestuck into DND 5e)
Once made Maxwell's Silver Hammer come down upon Strahd's head to make sure he was dead.
Always study & sharpen philosophical razors. They save a lot of trouble.
I have no idea who's in charge of WotC or Hasbro. None of the executives at either company are in my gaming group. You could make up a name and I'd believe you, and it wouldn't matter to me in the least, because my party will still be fighting an Arena full of evil snake cultists on Wednesday. I was playing D&D before the shenanigans, I played D&D during the shenanigans, and I'll be playing D&D long after the shenanigans have settled. Literally every single corporation in the history of the world has skeletons in its closet. If you want to avoid interacting with those skeletons, you should do what Dick Proenneke did back in 1968. And if that's a name you're not familiar with, go watch the documentary, "Alone in the Wilderness". It is truly breathtaking.
Anzio Faro. Protector Aasimar light cleric. Lvl 18.
Viktor Gavriil. White dragonborn grave cleric. Lvl 20.
Ikram Sahir ibn-Malik al-Sayyid Ra'ad. Brass dragonborn draconic sorcerer Lvl 9. Fire elemental devil.
Wrangler of cats.