Just wanted to call out something cool I came across in the new Forgotten Realms book (and salute the devs): the Mechanical Wonder magic item. These are quality of life semi-automatons originating from Lantan, that have become widespread in the new Calimshan and other places to assist with daily life. They do not require attunement.
These items have a variety of forms and functions, but the one that stood out to me was the Mobility Wonder (common). When wound up and worn on a character's back or flank, it becomes a "personal mobility device" that sets their speed to 30ft for 24 hours. The immediate thought I got was that this common item can be used as a way for mobility-impaired characters to get around a dungeon, so players who want to play a character who requires a mobility device such as a wheelchair to get around now have an official and easily-obtainable item that lets them do so. The Calimshan entry in AoFR specifically mentions how these items are often used by disabled citizens.
Common criticisms of Paizo's version of an adventuring wheelchair included statements along the lines of "a villain wouldn't care if their lair was wheelchair accessible" or "it would be silly if the DM put sturdy ramps all over this ancient ruin." But WotC solved that issue by keeping the exact mechanics of the mobility device vague. Maybe it has wheels, or sprouts spider legs, or it works like an exoskeleton that allows them to climb ropes, or even alters itself depending on the situation etc. No matter its form, what matters is that mechanically the character wearing it has a speed of 30ft. - so they should have no trouble keeping up with their party even during situations like chase scenes or navigating a tightrope or ladder etc.
Lastly, these devices becoming widespread in Calimshan meant that Calishites could more plausibly leave unsavory things like slave labor in the past, which is also mentioned in the Calimshan entry.
Anyway, I thought that was cool and wanted to share, and kudos to the devs!
I suppose this is really a question of flavour vs reality. The reality of an adventurer in a wheelchair would possibly suck if you/DM got hung up on accuracy. But this is a fantasy game with magic and so it should be treated as flavour, imo.
But balance is important - if you seek to gain a benefit from being wheelchair-bound, then they’d need to be a negative of some kind. Increased speed but a negative to dex saves, for example. https://100001****/
I suppose this is really a question of flavour vs reality. The reality of an adventurer in a wheelchair would possibly suck if you/DM got hung up on accuracy. But this is a fantasy game with magic and so it should be treated as flavour, imo.
What "reality"? What "accuracy"? D&D is a completely ahistorical, fantastical game that exists purely as a narrative construction. There is no reality to D&D. There is no accuracy to gauge it against. So no, it's not "a question of flavour vs reality", because there is no reality, D&D is pure flavour.
I suppose this is really a question of flavour vs reality. The reality of an adventurer in a wheelchair would possibly suck if you/DM got hung up on accuracy. But this is a fantasy game with magic and so it should be treated as flavour, imo.
But balance is important - if you seek to gain a benefit from being wheelchair-bound, then they’d need to be a negative of some kind. Increased speed but a negative to dex saves, for example.
Just a few things:
I am sure you don't mean offense, I'm just looking to inform. "Wheelchair-bound" is not a preferred term, and some can find it demeaning or offensive. Instead, you can say things like "person who uses a wheelchair".
Second, your second sentence could just read "D&D would suck if your DM got hung up on reality", because that's true for the entire game. D&D is not a reality-simulator, and thinking too hard about how something would "actually work in the real world" makes the game way less fun.
For the OP, I don't agree that this is "better" than a combat wheelchair. You're basically saying "I like this version better because it is vague enough that I can use my imagination to figure out how it works!" But... that was true of the combat wheelchair as well. You could simply use your imagination to think of how an adventurer using one would get around in a dungeon. For anyone who saw Avatar: The Last Airbender, I never thought Teo brought me out of the show. He used a wheelchair, got help from friends when needed, and I was never stuck thinking "Well, now this is just ridiculous!"
At any rate, I'm happy that they added more items focused on mobility so that all who would want to see themselves represented in the game, and would want to perhaps play a character that is a version of themselves, feel more free to do so.
For the OP, I don't agree that this is "better" than a combat wheelchair. You're basically saying "I like this version better because it is vague enough that I can use my imagination to figure out how it works!" But... that was true of the combat wheelchair as well.
Weird comment to make given the OP doesn't actually even mention the Combat Wheelchair. They said they were "Dungeon Wheelchairs, but better" based on the fact that it's a mobility device that is not constrained to being a wheelchair specifically. I agree that this openness is better because it allows for, and endorses, both players who want to play a character that's a wheelchair-user, as well as mobility impaired characters that might want to use more fantastical devices or hypothetical devices. I feel it says "Fantasy doesn't mean erasing your disability through magic, but supporting it through magic". Some mobility devices that might be an alternative to a wheelchair:
An ornate gold harness that animates the wearers legs, giving them bipedal movement.
A floating throne
A back mount array of metallic arachnid legs
Capsules of magical liquid that support the wearer and twist through the ground in a serpentine motion
Gentle jets of arcane energy
The point is the item communicates that mobility impaired characters aren't limited to just wheelchairs and people with disabilities have just as much entitlement to fantastical representation as able-bodied characters.
That's why I agree with the OP that it's better, because it gives equitable freedom for expression without pigeonholing people.
But balance is important - if you seek to gain a benefit from being wheelchair-bound, then they’d need to be a negative of some kind. Increased speed but a negative to dex saves, for example.
I wouldn't say it's seeking a benefit. 30ft move is the standard mobility the game is designed around for ~99% of able-bodied adventurers, so setting a character's speed to that value just allows an impaired character to keep up. It's not like the device makes them faster than that standard value.
Another cool thing about it is that once activated, it can't be removed unless the character wishes it to be, and as written you can sleep in it too (it's not considered armor etc.) The DM could decide to target it somehow of course, but especially given that there aren't rules for that, that seems like an occurrence that should be worked out with the player during session zero as a safety tool.
For the OP, I don't agree that this is "better" than a combat wheelchair. You're basically saying "I like this version better because it is vague enough that I can use my imagination to figure out how it works!" But... that was true of the combat wheelchair as well.
Weird comment to make given the OP doesn't actually even mention the Combat Wheelchair. They said they were "Dungeon Wheelchairs, but better" based on the fact that it's a mobility device that is not constrained to being a wheelchair specifically. I agree that this openness is better because it allows for, and endorses, both players who want to play a character that's a wheelchair-user, as well as mobility impaired characters that might want to use more fantastical devices or hypothetical devices. I feel it says "Fantasy doesn't mean erasing your disability through magic, but supporting it through magic". Some mobility devices that might be an alternative to a wheelchair:
An ornate gold harness that animates the wearers legs, giving them bipedal movement.
A floating throne
A back mount array of metallic arachnid legs
Capsules of magical liquid that support the wearer and twist through the ground in a serpentine motion
Gentle jets of arcane energy
The point is the item communicates that mobility impaired characters aren't limited to just wheelchairs and people with disabilities have just as much entitlement to fantastical representation as able-bodied characters.
That's why I agree with the OP that it's better, because it gives equitable freedom for expression without pigeonholing people.
Sorry, whenever people talk about D&D wheelchairs my mind goes back to the debate over the Combat Wheelchair, so that terminology spilled out versus something more generic. However my point remains the same, as nothing I said was specific to any mechanics in the Combat Wheelchair item specifically.
I'm not going to hash on this too much, because I feel like we're of a like-mind when it comes to this, which makes your "rebuttal" of my statement all the more confusing. I never said the new item was bad, in fact I praised them for "added more items focused on mobility so that all who would want to see themselves represented in the game, and would want to perhaps play a character that is a version of themselves, feel more free to do so." My point is more that is is good that we have more items/rules/etc that can increase representation, but that doesn't make the previous iterations "bad". This is simply a case of "more is great".
I agree with OP that this is a good addition to the game, however I disagreed with the "But WotC solved that issue by keeping the exact mechanics of the mobility device vague. Maybe it has wheels, or sprouts spider legs, or it works like an exoskeleton that allows them to climb ropes, or even alters itself depending on the situation etc. No matter its form, what matters is that mechanically the character wearing it has a speed of 30ft. - so they should have no trouble keeping up with their party even during situations like chase scenes or navigating a tightrope or ladder etc," because it suggests that previous arguments suggesting having dungeon wheelchairs reduced verisimilitude were correct or valid.
More representation is always good, and I'm glad they are including more items/rules/etc that support and expand on players' ability to do that.
I agree with OP that this is a good addition to the game, however I disagreed with the "But WotC solved that issue by keeping the exact mechanics of the mobility device vague. Maybe it has wheels, or sprouts spider legs, or it works like an exoskeleton that allows them to climb ropes, or even alters itself depending on the situation etc. No matter its form, what matters is that mechanically the character wearing it has a speed of 30ft. - so they should have no trouble keeping up with their party even during situations like chase scenes or navigating a tightrope or ladder etc," because it suggests that previous arguments suggesting having dungeon wheelchairs reduced verisimilitude were correct or valid.
I didn't claim those arguments were valid - just that they existed, and that this device was elegantly written by the devs in a way that easily refutes them (valid or not.)
Honestly, looking at this along with the current versions of the magical prosthetic/ersatz eye I think one of my biggest issues is just the worldbuilding blip it creates since they’re all only classed as Common magic items; 100 gp for something that covers the vast majority of the utility Regenerate- a 7th level spell- which should cost about 20,000 gp per the PHB to get someone to cast for you is quite the bargain. If we take all this at face value, then it either seems like there should be a lot of these floating around all over the place or all the magic item shops have no concept of supply and demand when they’re selling their very limited stock of such items. Heck, at this point it’s only 500 gp to regain utility in all 4 limbs and both eyes. That’s 2.5% of the suggested price of the spell!
It’s hardly the end of the world or game, but it’s a very dissonant tone when the price for this kind of fix is either a fairly substantial fortune or something that looks to be within a middle-class person’s means. IMO unless the setting is explicitly supposed to be an idealized one that’s at least headed towards post scarcity, the items should at least be in the same neighborhood as the spell cost-wise. This has nothing to do with gatekeeping starting builds, but the cost to value ratio on these items is pretty mind-boggling from even a casual analysis. If a player had some hook-up or was able to jury rig something for themselves before the campaign starts that’s between them and the DM- it’s already a decent boost to printed starting income for them to get at any of these at the current price- but for the day to day image of a setting it’s weird that limb replacement is so accessible.
I'd say that the bigger dissonance was that for decades, the status quo was having a 7th-level spell be the only printed way to address things like limb loss. When it's cheaper and easier for an adventurer to hand a cleric or druid some cash then unalive themselves entirely right in front of them so they can be raised or reincarnated, something has clearly gone wrong in the magic system. Better late than never for addressing it I'd say.
Beyond which - the affordability / accessibility of these items is the reason their discovery was such a big deal imo. It's not that magic had no ways to assist mobility before, they were just highly impractical for their benefit.
Unless earlier editions were more generous about it, it takes the same spell level for a revival spell to restore limbs as Regenerate, and both classes would have it on their class list, so someone would just be spending a bunch of extra gold and getting revival penalties for the same effect. Yes, there’s ostensibly the case for loss of motor function without the overt loss of the limb depending on how you parse what lower level raises do, but I don’t think that has ever really been within D&D’s core scope of effects.
Honestly, looking at this along with the current versions of the magical prosthetic/ersatz eye I think one of my biggest issues is just the worldbuilding blip it creates since they’re all only classed as Common magic items; 100 gp for something that covers the vast majority of the utility Regenerate- a 7th level spell- which should cost about 20,000 gp per the PHB to get someone to cast for you is quite the bargain. If we take all this at face value, then it either seems like there should be a lot of these floating around all over the place or all the magic item shops have no concept of supply and demand when they’re selling their very limited stock of such items. Heck, at this point it’s only 500 gp to regain utility in all 4 limbs and both eyes. That’s 2.5% of the suggested price of the spell!
It’s hardly the end of the world or game, but it’s a very dissonant tone when the price for this kind of fix is either a fairly substantial fortune or something that looks to be within a middle-class person’s means. IMO unless the setting is explicitly supposed to be an idealized one that’s at least headed towards post scarcity, the items should at least be in the same neighborhood as the spell cost-wise. This has nothing to do with gatekeeping starting builds, but the cost to value ratio on these items is pretty mind-boggling from even a casual analysis. If a player had some hook-up or was able to jury rig something for themselves before the campaign starts that’s between them and the DM- it’s already a decent boost to printed starting income for them to get at any of these at the current price- but for the day to day image of a setting it’s weird that limb replacement is so accessible.
To draw a real world parallel, what would be the cost difference between a standard (dare I say common) prosthetic limb and experimental stem cell treatment to regrow lost body parts? I don't think having 100gp prosthetics and 20,000gp level 7 spells co-existing creates any kind of narrative wrinkle.
Or look at how we have Nissan's and Ferrari's or Target and Sak's. Accessible and luxury solutions to needs can co-exist.
A quick bit of googling suggests the price range on a prosthetic leg is $3,000 to $70,000. For wheelchairs, they start at about $500 while the "Quickie Q700-UP Sedeo Ergo Standing Powered Wheelchair" starts at $30,000—that's not even the most advanced wheelchair available, just the most advanced one I could find with a price.
Basically it's a non-issue narratively if you keep in mind that just because a cheap solution exists, that doesn't mean that quenches all demand for expensive solutions.
Honestly, looking at this along with the current versions of the magical prosthetic/ersatz eye I think one of my biggest issues is just the worldbuilding blip it creates since they’re all only classed as Common magic items; 100 gp for something that covers the vast majority of the utility Regenerate- a 7th level spell- which should cost about 20,000 gp per the PHB to get someone to cast for you is quite the bargain. If we take all this at face value, then it either seems like there should be a lot of these floating around all over the place or all the magic item shops have no concept of supply and demand when they’re selling their very limited stock of such items. Heck, at this point it’s only 500 gp to regain utility in all 4 limbs and both eyes. That’s 2.5% of the suggested price of the spell!
It’s hardly the end of the world or game, but it’s a very dissonant tone when the price for this kind of fix is either a fairly substantial fortune or something that looks to be within a middle-class person’s means. IMO unless the setting is explicitly supposed to be an idealized one that’s at least headed towards post scarcity, the items should at least be in the same neighborhood as the spell cost-wise. This has nothing to do with gatekeeping starting builds, but the cost to value ratio on these items is pretty mind-boggling from even a casual analysis. If a player had some hook-up or was able to jury rig something for themselves before the campaign starts that’s between them and the DM- it’s already a decent boost to printed starting income for them to get at any of these at the current price- but for the day to day image of a setting it’s weird that limb replacement is so accessible.
To draw a real world parallel, what would be the cost difference between a standard (dare I say common) prosthetic limb and experimental stem cell treatment to regrow lost body parts? I don't think having 100gp prosthetics and 20,000gp level 7 spells co-existing creates any kind of narrative wrinkle.
Or look at how we have Nissan's and Ferrari's or Target and Sak's. Accessible and luxury solutions to needs can co-exist.
A quick bit of googling suggests the price range on a prosthetic leg is $3,000 to $70,000. For wheelchairs, they start at about $500 while the "Quickie Q700-UP Sedeo Ergo Standing Powered Wheelchair" starts at $30,000—that's not even the most advanced wheelchair available, just the most advanced one I could find with a price.
Basically it's a non-issue narratively if you keep in mind that just because a cheap solution exists, that doesn't mean that quenches all demand for expensive solutions.
Except you get exactly the same utility out of the cheap solution and the expensive one here in almost all cases- magical prostheses perfectly restore function and this new item gives what? A 5-10ft penalty to maybe two or three core species picks? If the common magic items incorporated handicaps to performance your comparisons would have a point, but they exist specifically to remove any such handicaps so they’re effectively the same as your stem cell treatment.
Except you get exactly the same utility out of the cheap solution and the expensive one here in almost all cases- magical prostheses perfectly restore function
Except it's not the "exact same utility," because with the prosthesis you're relying on a magic item. With regenerate you don't, it's instantaneous. Even if the situations that can interfere with the former are few, they do exist.
Unless earlier editions were more generous about it, it takes the same spell level for a revival spell to restore limbs as Regenerate
Missing limbs, yes. If you have the severed limb handy, no. Somebody could sew it back onto your body and then revivify/raise you and that would be that.
Eh, you’re playing pretty fast and loose with the effects to say stitching it back on will fix it with them. Raise Dead specifically says it does not restore lost limbs and if the body is missing a head it fails. At best, you’re filling the negative space of it not explicitly saying you can’t stick a limb back to make it heal with the assumption that you can, which is generally not a good approach to D&D effects. Note that the exact language is the spell does not “restore” lost body parts, as opposed to something like “regrow”.
And, to address the earlier point, yes technically you aren’t getting your real arm back. However, since what you are getting will perform identically in every respect to the arm outside of a small set of fairly niche cases, none of which would be likely to crop up in day to day life, it’s effectively a distinction without a difference.
And, to address the earlier point, yes technically you aren’t getting your real arm back. However, since what you are getting will perform identically in every respect to the arm outside of a small set of fairly niche cases, none of which would be likely to crop up in day to day life, it’s effectively a distinction without a difference.
There are differences. Dead Magic for example will disable your mobility device.
We’re not going to agree on interpretations of the Raise limits clearly, so setting that aside I acknowledged there are certain specific cases where the items fall short. However, they’re all pretty adventurer specific ones- your average farmer or merchant is unlikely to have someone cast Antimagic Field around them or encounter a Beholder. Ergo, practically speaking the items function exactly the same as the spell in any situation you can reasonably expect them to be in.
To solve some of the arguments going on here when they happened at my table, was to rule that Magic prosthetics only lose "Extra" functions in anti magic zones. Such as if someone's prosthetic eye also had Darkvision and magic missle capabilities, those won't work, but the user could still see from it, though i would narrate that there was an odd grain that gave them a slight headache, but added no mechanical downsides.
is it RAW. No. Do i care? I care about the fun of my players so i ask them first if they would like AMFs to effect their prosthetics or mobility aides. Unless you have Warforged drop dead in AMFs, then it isn't so implausible, that a prosthetic will also keep working.
But yes, i like the new mobility item, i am glad it is in the game.
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Am I reading things correctly that this works on basically any character? So a beast master ranger could equip it on his beast of the sea to make it mobile on land.
Honestly, looking at this along with the current versions of the magical prosthetic/ersatz eye I think one of my biggest issues is just the worldbuilding blip it creates since they’re all only classed as Common magic items; 100 gp for something that covers the vast majority of the utility Regenerate- a 7th level spell- which should cost about 20,000 gp per the PHB to get someone to cast for you is quite the bargain. If we take all this at face value, then it either seems like there should be a lot of these floating around all over the place or all the magic item shops have no concept of supply and demand when they’re selling their very limited stock of such items. Heck, at this point it’s only 500 gp to regain utility in all 4 limbs and both eyes. That’s 2.5% of the suggested price of the spell!
It’s hardly the end of the world or game, but it’s a very dissonant tone when the price for this kind of fix is either a fairly substantial fortune or something that looks to be within a middle-class person’s means. IMO unless the setting is explicitly supposed to be an idealized one that’s at least headed towards post scarcity, the items should at least be in the same neighborhood as the spell cost-wise. This has nothing to do with gatekeeping starting builds, but the cost to value ratio on these items is pretty mind-boggling from even a casual analysis. If a player had some hook-up or was able to jury rig something for themselves before the campaign starts that’s between them and the DM- it’s already a decent boost to printed starting income for them to get at any of these at the current price- but for the day to day image of a setting it’s weird that limb replacement is so accessible.
To draw a real world parallel, what would be the cost difference between a standard (dare I say common) prosthetic limb and experimental stem cell treatment to regrow lost body parts? I don't think having 100gp prosthetics and 20,000gp level 7 spells co-existing creates any kind of narrative wrinkle.
Or look at how we have Nissan's and Ferrari's or Target and Sak's. Accessible and luxury solutions to needs can co-exist.
A quick bit of googling suggests the price range on a prosthetic leg is $3,000 to $70,000. For wheelchairs, they start at about $500 while the "Quickie Q700-UP Sedeo Ergo Standing Powered Wheelchair" starts at $30,000—that's not even the most advanced wheelchair available, just the most advanced one I could find with a price.
Basically it's a non-issue narratively if you keep in mind that just because a cheap solution exists, that doesn't mean that quenches all demand for expensive solutions.
Except you get exactly the same utility out of the cheap solution and the expensive one here in almost all cases- magical prostheses perfectly restore function and this new item gives what? A 5-10ft penalty to maybe two or three core species picks? If the common magic items incorporated handicaps to performance your comparisons would have a point, but they exist specifically to remove any such handicaps so they’re effectively the same as your stem cell treatment.
Why are we talking about worldbuilding conflict and then pointing exclusively to mechanics? Are you ignoring the fact that people might want the "luxury" solution of a level 7 spell to regrow their lost limb because it does just that? Regrows their lost limb! They don't need to use a prosthetic because they get their limb back. From a purely utilitarian perspective, sure, there's no point going for the expensive option when the cheap one checks almost all the same boxes. But that assumes every individual in your setting operates from a purely utilitarian perspective without ego or desire.
Just wanted to call out something cool I came across in the new Forgotten Realms book (and salute the devs): the Mechanical Wonder magic item. These are quality of life semi-automatons originating from Lantan, that have become widespread in the new Calimshan and other places to assist with daily life. They do not require attunement.
These items have a variety of forms and functions, but the one that stood out to me was the Mobility Wonder (common). When wound up and worn on a character's back or flank, it becomes a "personal mobility device" that sets their speed to 30ft for 24 hours. The immediate thought I got was that this common item can be used as a way for mobility-impaired characters to get around a dungeon, so players who want to play a character who requires a mobility device such as a wheelchair to get around now have an official and easily-obtainable item that lets them do so. The Calimshan entry in AoFR specifically mentions how these items are often used by disabled citizens.
Common criticisms of Paizo's version of an adventuring wheelchair included statements along the lines of "a villain wouldn't care if their lair was wheelchair accessible" or "it would be silly if the DM put sturdy ramps all over this ancient ruin." But WotC solved that issue by keeping the exact mechanics of the mobility device vague. Maybe it has wheels, or sprouts spider legs, or it works like an exoskeleton that allows them to climb ropes, or even alters itself depending on the situation etc. No matter its form, what matters is that mechanically the character wearing it has a speed of 30ft. - so they should have no trouble keeping up with their party even during situations like chase scenes or navigating a tightrope or ladder etc.
Lastly, these devices becoming widespread in Calimshan meant that Calishites could more plausibly leave unsavory things like slave labor in the past, which is also mentioned in the Calimshan entry.
Anyway, I thought that was cool and wanted to share, and kudos to the devs!
I suppose this is really a question of flavour vs reality. The reality of an adventurer in a wheelchair would possibly suck if you/DM got hung up on accuracy. But this is a fantasy game with magic and so it should be treated as flavour, imo.
But balance is important - if you seek to gain a benefit from being wheelchair-bound, then they’d need to be a negative of some kind. Increased speed but a negative to dex saves, for example. https://100001****/
What "reality"? What "accuracy"? D&D is a completely ahistorical, fantastical game that exists purely as a narrative construction. There is no reality to D&D. There is no accuracy to gauge it against. So no, it's not "a question of flavour vs reality", because there is no reality, D&D is pure flavour.
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Just a few things:
I am sure you don't mean offense, I'm just looking to inform. "Wheelchair-bound" is not a preferred term, and some can find it demeaning or offensive. Instead, you can say things like "person who uses a wheelchair".
Second, your second sentence could just read "D&D would suck if your DM got hung up on reality", because that's true for the entire game. D&D is not a reality-simulator, and thinking too hard about how something would "actually work in the real world" makes the game way less fun.
For the OP, I don't agree that this is "better" than a combat wheelchair. You're basically saying "I like this version better because it is vague enough that I can use my imagination to figure out how it works!" But... that was true of the combat wheelchair as well. You could simply use your imagination to think of how an adventurer using one would get around in a dungeon. For anyone who saw Avatar: The Last Airbender, I never thought Teo brought me out of the show. He used a wheelchair, got help from friends when needed, and I was never stuck thinking "Well, now this is just ridiculous!"
At any rate, I'm happy that they added more items focused on mobility so that all who would want to see themselves represented in the game, and would want to perhaps play a character that is a version of themselves, feel more free to do so.
Weird comment to make given the OP doesn't actually even mention the Combat Wheelchair. They said they were "Dungeon Wheelchairs, but better" based on the fact that it's a mobility device that is not constrained to being a wheelchair specifically. I agree that this openness is better because it allows for, and endorses, both players who want to play a character that's a wheelchair-user, as well as mobility impaired characters that might want to use more fantastical devices or hypothetical devices. I feel it says "Fantasy doesn't mean erasing your disability through magic, but supporting it through magic". Some mobility devices that might be an alternative to a wheelchair:
The point is the item communicates that mobility impaired characters aren't limited to just wheelchairs and people with disabilities have just as much entitlement to fantastical representation as able-bodied characters.
That's why I agree with the OP that it's better, because it gives equitable freedom for expression without pigeonholing people.
Find my D&D Beyond articles here
I wouldn't say it's seeking a benefit. 30ft move is the standard mobility the game is designed around for ~99% of able-bodied adventurers, so setting a character's speed to that value just allows an impaired character to keep up. It's not like the device makes them faster than that standard value.
Another cool thing about it is that once activated, it can't be removed unless the character wishes it to be, and as written you can sleep in it too (it's not considered armor etc.) The DM could decide to target it somehow of course, but especially given that there aren't rules for that, that seems like an occurrence that should be worked out with the player during session zero as a safety tool.
Sorry, whenever people talk about D&D wheelchairs my mind goes back to the debate over the Combat Wheelchair, so that terminology spilled out versus something more generic. However my point remains the same, as nothing I said was specific to any mechanics in the Combat Wheelchair item specifically.
I'm not going to hash on this too much, because I feel like we're of a like-mind when it comes to this, which makes your "rebuttal" of my statement all the more confusing. I never said the new item was bad, in fact I praised them for "added more items focused on mobility so that all who would want to see themselves represented in the game, and would want to perhaps play a character that is a version of themselves, feel more free to do so." My point is more that is is good that we have more items/rules/etc that can increase representation, but that doesn't make the previous iterations "bad". This is simply a case of "more is great".
I agree with OP that this is a good addition to the game, however I disagreed with the "But WotC solved that issue by keeping the exact mechanics of the mobility device vague. Maybe it has wheels, or sprouts spider legs, or it works like an exoskeleton that allows them to climb ropes, or even alters itself depending on the situation etc. No matter its form, what matters is that mechanically the character wearing it has a speed of 30ft. - so they should have no trouble keeping up with their party even during situations like chase scenes or navigating a tightrope or ladder etc," because it suggests that previous arguments suggesting having dungeon wheelchairs reduced verisimilitude were correct or valid.
More representation is always good, and I'm glad they are including more items/rules/etc that support and expand on players' ability to do that.
That's basically the thread title 🙂
I didn't claim those arguments were valid - just that they existed, and that this device was elegantly written by the devs in a way that easily refutes them (valid or not.)
Honestly, looking at this along with the current versions of the magical prosthetic/ersatz eye I think one of my biggest issues is just the worldbuilding blip it creates since they’re all only classed as Common magic items; 100 gp for something that covers the vast majority of the utility Regenerate- a 7th level spell- which should cost about 20,000 gp per the PHB to get someone to cast for you is quite the bargain. If we take all this at face value, then it either seems like there should be a lot of these floating around all over the place or all the magic item shops have no concept of supply and demand when they’re selling their very limited stock of such items. Heck, at this point it’s only 500 gp to regain utility in all 4 limbs and both eyes. That’s 2.5% of the suggested price of the spell!
It’s hardly the end of the world or game, but it’s a very dissonant tone when the price for this kind of fix is either a fairly substantial fortune or something that looks to be within a middle-class person’s means. IMO unless the setting is explicitly supposed to be an idealized one that’s at least headed towards post scarcity, the items should at least be in the same neighborhood as the spell cost-wise. This has nothing to do with gatekeeping starting builds, but the cost to value ratio on these items is pretty mind-boggling from even a casual analysis. If a player had some hook-up or was able to jury rig something for themselves before the campaign starts that’s between them and the DM- it’s already a decent boost to printed starting income for them to get at any of these at the current price- but for the day to day image of a setting it’s weird that limb replacement is so accessible.
I'd say that the bigger dissonance was that for decades, the status quo was having a 7th-level spell be the only printed way to address things like limb loss. When it's cheaper and easier for an adventurer to hand a cleric or druid some cash then unalive themselves entirely right in front of them so they can be raised or reincarnated, something has clearly gone wrong in the magic system. Better late than never for addressing it I'd say.
Beyond which - the affordability / accessibility of these items is the reason their discovery was such a big deal imo. It's not that magic had no ways to assist mobility before, they were just highly impractical for their benefit.
Unless earlier editions were more generous about it, it takes the same spell level for a revival spell to restore limbs as Regenerate, and both classes would have it on their class list, so someone would just be spending a bunch of extra gold and getting revival penalties for the same effect. Yes, there’s ostensibly the case for loss of motor function without the overt loss of the limb depending on how you parse what lower level raises do, but I don’t think that has ever really been within D&D’s core scope of effects.
To draw a real world parallel, what would be the cost difference between a standard (dare I say common) prosthetic limb and experimental stem cell treatment to regrow lost body parts? I don't think having 100gp prosthetics and 20,000gp level 7 spells co-existing creates any kind of narrative wrinkle.
Or look at how we have Nissan's and Ferrari's or Target and Sak's. Accessible and luxury solutions to needs can co-exist.
A quick bit of googling suggests the price range on a prosthetic leg is $3,000 to $70,000. For wheelchairs, they start at about $500 while the "Quickie Q700-UP Sedeo Ergo Standing Powered Wheelchair" starts at $30,000—that's not even the most advanced wheelchair available, just the most advanced one I could find with a price.
Basically it's a non-issue narratively if you keep in mind that just because a cheap solution exists, that doesn't mean that quenches all demand for expensive solutions.
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Except you get exactly the same utility out of the cheap solution and the expensive one here in almost all cases- magical prostheses perfectly restore function and this new item gives what? A 5-10ft penalty to maybe two or three core species picks? If the common magic items incorporated handicaps to performance your comparisons would have a point, but they exist specifically to remove any such handicaps so they’re effectively the same as your stem cell treatment.
Except it's not the "exact same utility," because with the prosthesis you're relying on a magic item. With regenerate you don't, it's instantaneous. Even if the situations that can interfere with the former are few, they do exist.
Missing limbs, yes. If you have the severed limb handy, no. Somebody could sew it back onto your body and then revivify/raise you and that would be that.
Eh, you’re playing pretty fast and loose with the effects to say stitching it back on will fix it with them. Raise Dead specifically says it does not restore lost limbs and if the body is missing a head it fails. At best, you’re filling the negative space of it not explicitly saying you can’t stick a limb back to make it heal with the assumption that you can, which is generally not a good approach to D&D effects. Note that the exact language is the spell does not “restore” lost body parts, as opposed to something like “regrow”.
And, to address the earlier point, yes technically you aren’t getting your real arm back. However, since what you are getting will perform identically in every respect to the arm outside of a small set of fairly niche cases, none of which would be likely to crop up in day to day life, it’s effectively a distinction without a difference.
Missing limbs, again. If you're trying to argue from RAW, words matter.
Yes, if you have all the pieces then there's nothing to restore.
There are differences. Dead Magic for example will disable your mobility device.
We’re not going to agree on interpretations of the Raise limits clearly, so setting that aside I acknowledged there are certain specific cases where the items fall short. However, they’re all pretty adventurer specific ones- your average farmer or merchant is unlikely to have someone cast Antimagic Field around them or encounter a Beholder. Ergo, practically speaking the items function exactly the same as the spell in any situation you can reasonably expect them to be in.
To solve some of the arguments going on here when they happened at my table, was to rule that Magic prosthetics only lose "Extra" functions in anti magic zones. Such as if someone's prosthetic eye also had Darkvision and magic missle capabilities, those won't work, but the user could still see from it, though i would narrate that there was an odd grain that gave them a slight headache, but added no mechanical downsides.
is it RAW. No. Do i care? I care about the fun of my players so i ask them first if they would like AMFs to effect their prosthetics or mobility aides.
Unless you have Warforged drop dead in AMFs, then it isn't so implausible, that a prosthetic will also keep working.
But yes, i like the new mobility item, i am glad it is in the game.
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Am I reading things correctly that this works on basically any character? So a beast master ranger could equip it on his beast of the sea to make it mobile on land.
Why are we talking about worldbuilding conflict and then pointing exclusively to mechanics? Are you ignoring the fact that people might want the "luxury" solution of a level 7 spell to regrow their lost limb because it does just that? Regrows their lost limb! They don't need to use a prosthetic because they get their limb back. From a purely utilitarian perspective, sure, there's no point going for the expensive option when the cheap one checks almost all the same boxes. But that assumes every individual in your setting operates from a purely utilitarian perspective without ego or desire.
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