I once showed that a Tarrasque could be killed by the Sprite familiar of a Warlock, assuming the familiar has access to an unlimited number of needle/arrows. The last time I used a Tarrasque, I gave it a breath weapon with a several hundred foot range (as the attack was outdoors and the characters had access to a skyship). I also put a storm overhead making it risky to fly too high.
It's notable that the 3e tarrasque, despite having insane raw stats, is only CR 20, presumably because they recognized that people will just... not get into melee with it.
Power scaling in 3rd Edition was very different from 5E. A 3rd Edition party at 20th level had higher AC, higher attack bonuses, more damage output, and considerably more spells than a 20th level 5th Edition party would. Magic items could go up to +5 instead of +3, there were no caps on ability score maximums, high mental stats gave bonus spell slots, the base spell slot charts gave more spells per day at every level... A CR 20 monster in 3rd Edition was ''expected'' to be something that was such a threat to a 15th level party that they'd get an automatic level up just from surviving the encounter, with no chance of actually winning. In 5th Edition it's possible if difficult for a prepared party to beat the Tarrasque.
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Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
Power scaling in 3rd Edition was very different from 5E.
While true, not really my point. The thing is, its actual raw numbers are crazy, far higher than other CR 20 monsters, it's just that it doesn't actually do anything but be a fairly indestructible brute.
Yeah, but that's partially because it's got defensive capabilities no other CR 20 had: massive regeneration with no damage type that overcame it, DR/epic (meaning that you needed at least a +6 weapon to deal full damage to it), and not just a high chance to not be affected by spells but to also bounce them right back on the caster.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
Just because the stat block doesn't have options for chucking something at your flying Tiefling doesn't mean I'm not going to allow improvised weapon use rules to have the monster throw a wagon at your PC.
Just because the stat block doesn't have options for chucking something at your flying Tiefling doesn't mean I'm not going to allow improvised weapon use rules to have the monster throw a wagon at your PC.
I imagine the adventurers seeing the Tarrasque rise up over the city of Baldur's Gate and say, "we'll save you" then promptly spam toll the dead while the city burns. A funny vision, and while you'll get the XP, I think the repercussions will be quite awful for everyone except you.
I feel as though attempting to kill the Tarrasque by spamming a spell that has the same range as its movement and uses a saving throw that it's got +9 and advantage on is unlikely to succeed.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
I feel as though attempting to kill the Tarrasque by spamming a spell that has the same range as its movement and uses a saving throw that it's got +9 and advantage on is unlikely to succeed.
Not to mention the recharge on it's Thunderous Bellow has a higher probability every round than that of it failing the Toll the Dead saving throw and that has a considerably larger range than Toll the Dead.
I am not sure why the Tarrasque is regarded as such a formidable foe.
That would be because 5e, and 5.5e have significanty nerfed the abilites of all Monsters, in an attempt to balance the game for the players. In the past the creature was by far the most difficult monster to fight.
2nd Edition Monstrous Manual page 339
Climate & Terrain: Any land
Frequency: Unique
Organization: Solitary
Activity Cycle: See below
Diet: Omnivore
Intelligence: Animal (1)
Treasure: See below
Alignment: Neutral
No. Appearing: 1
Armor Class: -3
Movement: 9, Rush 15
Hit Dice: 300 hp (approx. 70 HD)
THAC0: -5
No. of Attacks: 6
Damage /Attack: 1-12/1-12/2-24/5-50/1-10/1-10
Special Attack: Sharpness bite, terror
Special Defenses: See below
Magical Resistance: Nil
Size: G (50' long)
Moral: Champion (15)
XP: 107,00
The legendary tarrasque, for there is fortunately only one known to exist, is the most dreaded monster native to the Prime Material plane. The creature is a scaly biped with two horns on its head, a lashing tail, and a reflective carapace.
Combat:The tarrasque is a killing machine and when active (see below) eats everything for miles around, including all animals and vegetation. Normal attacks are with its two forelimb claws (1d12 points of damage each), a sweeping tail lash (2d12 points of damage), a savage bite (5d10 points of damage plus acts as a sword of sharpness, severing a limb on a natural attack roll of 18 or better), and two thrusting horn attacks (1d10 points of damage each).
Once every turn, the normally slow-moving tarrasque can rush forward at a movement rate of 15, making all horn attacks cause double damage and trampling anything underfoot for 4d10 points of crushing damage.
The mere sight of the tarrasque causes creatures with less than 3 levels or Hit Dice to be paralyzed with fright (no saving throw) until it is out of their vision. Creatures of 3 or more levels or Hit Dice flee in panic, although those of 7 or more levels or Hit Dice that manage to succeed with a saving throw vs. paralyzation are not affected (though they often still decide to run away).
The tarrasque's carapace is exceptionally tough and highly reflective. Bolts and rays such as lightning bolts, cones of cold, and even magic missiles are useless against it. The reflection is such that 1 in 6 of these attacks actually bounces directly back at the caster (affecting him normally), while the rest bounce off harmlessly to the sides and into the air.
The tarrasque is also immune to all heat and fire, and it regenerates lost hit points at a rate of 1 hit point per round. Only enchanted weapons (+1 or better) have any hope of harming the tarrasque. The Tarrasque is totally immune to all psionics.
Habitat/Society: It is fortunate that the tarrasque is active only for short periods of time. Typically, the monster comes forth to forage for a week or two, ravaging the countryside for miles around. The tarrasque then seeks a hidden lair underground and lies dormant, sleeping for 5d4 months before coming forth again. Once every decade or so, the monster is particularly active, staying awake for several months. Thereafter its period of dormancy is 4d4 years unless disturbed. The ratio of active to dormant states seems to be about 1:30.
Ecology: Slaying of the tarrasque is said to be possible only if the monster is reduced to -30 or fewer hit points and a wish is then used. Otherwise, even the slightest piece of the tarrasque can regenerate and restore the monster completely. Legend says that a great treasure can be extracted from the tarrasque's carapace. The upper portion, treated with acid and then heated in a furnace, is thought to yield gems (10d10 diamonds of 1,000 gp base value each). The underbelly material, mixed with the creature's blood and adamantite, is said to produce a metal that can be forged by master dwarven blacksmiths into 1d4 shields of +5 enchantment. It takes two years to manufacture each shield, and the dwarves aren't likely to do it for free.
It is hoped that the tarrasque is a solitary creation, some hideous abomination unleashed by the dark arts or by elder, forgotten gods to punish all of nature. The elemental nature of the tarrasque leads the few living tarrasque experts to speculate that the elemental princes of evil have something to do with its existence. In any case, the location of the tarrasque remains a mystery, as it rarely leaves witnesses in its wake, and nature quickly grows over all remnants of its presence. It is rumored that the tarrasque is responsible for the extinction of one ancient civilization, for the records of their last days spoke of a “great reptilian punisher sent by the gods to end the world”.
Note: Creatures with a negative THAC0 can only miss on a roll of a 1.
Basically you needed a high level party everyone needed magic weapons, and spell casters really didn't have the tools needed to do much to it.
Oh, I’d forgotten about those old damage numbers like damage 5-50. Early D&D editions were responsible for many of my math word problem solving skills when they just expressed a range instead of telling you what to roll. Like 2-7 means a d6+1, while 2-8 means 2d4.
And here I was, reading from your picture before scrolling down...
yeah... I wanted to show from my copy, but it needed to be typed out for easy reading. I also have the 3rd and 4th books on my desk... but the time it took for 2nd means I will pass on that idea.
Oh, I’d forgotten about those old damage numbers like damage 5-50. Early D&D editions were responsible for many of my math word problem solving skills when they just expressed a range instead of telling you what to roll. Like 2-7 means a d6+1, while 2-8 means 2d4.
I was tempted to translate the numbers into 5e but it would loose it's authentic feel. As a DM I do like to add back some more dangerous parts of older monsters into my games, both to change it up and to foil meta gaming.
I once showed that a Tarrasque could be killed by the Sprite familiar of a Warlock, assuming the familiar has access to an unlimited number of needle/arrows. The last time I used a Tarrasque, I gave it a breath weapon with a several hundred foot range (as the attack was outdoors and the characters had access to a skyship). I also put a storm overhead making it risky to fly too high.
Playing D&D since 1982
Have played every version of the game since Basic (original Red Box Set), except that abomination sometimes called 4e.
Is this a spherical sprite in a vacuum? 😂
Find my D&D Beyond articles here
It's notable that the 3e tarrasque, despite having insane raw stats, is only CR 20, presumably because they recognized that people will just... not get into melee with it.
Power scaling in 3rd Edition was very different from 5E. A 3rd Edition party at 20th level had higher AC, higher attack bonuses, more damage output, and considerably more spells than a 20th level 5th Edition party would. Magic items could go up to +5 instead of +3, there were no caps on ability score maximums, high mental stats gave bonus spell slots, the base spell slot charts gave more spells per day at every level... A CR 20 monster in 3rd Edition was ''expected'' to be something that was such a threat to a 15th level party that they'd get an automatic level up just from surviving the encounter, with no chance of actually winning. In 5th Edition it's possible if difficult for a prepared party to beat the Tarrasque.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
While true, not really my point. The thing is, its actual raw numbers are crazy, far higher than other CR 20 monsters, it's just that it doesn't actually do anything but be a fairly indestructible brute.
Yeah, but that's partially because it's got defensive capabilities no other CR 20 had: massive regeneration with no damage type that overcame it, DR/epic (meaning that you needed at least a +6 weapon to deal full damage to it), and not just a high chance to not be affected by spells but to also bounce them right back on the caster.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
Didn’t you also need to cast wish after it died so it would stay dead? I think that was still the rule in 3e.
Yes, after dropping it to -40 HP. Most creatures died at -10.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
I don't know about the one in 3e, but it was the requirement in AD&D 1e.
Just because the stat block doesn't have options for chucking something at your flying Tiefling doesn't mean I'm not going to allow improvised weapon use rules to have the monster throw a wagon at your PC.
It was the case in 3E as well.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
Wagons, ho!
I imagine the adventurers seeing the Tarrasque rise up over the city of Baldur's Gate and say, "we'll save you" then promptly spam toll the dead while the city burns. A funny vision, and while you'll get the XP, I think the repercussions will be quite awful for everyone except you.
I feel as though attempting to kill the Tarrasque by spamming a spell that has the same range as its movement and uses a saving throw that it's got +9 and advantage on is unlikely to succeed.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
Not to mention the recharge on it's Thunderous Bellow has a higher probability every round than that of it failing the Toll the Dead saving throw and that has a considerably larger range than Toll the Dead.
It should have kept it's Regeneration from earlier editions.
That would be because 5e, and 5.5e have significanty nerfed the abilites of all Monsters, in an attempt to balance the game for the players. In the past the creature was by far the most difficult monster to fight.
2nd Edition Monstrous Manual page 339
The legendary tarrasque, for there is fortunately only one known to exist, is the most dreaded monster native to the Prime Material plane. The creature is a scaly biped with two horns on its head, a lashing tail, and a reflective carapace.
Combat: The tarrasque is a killing machine and when active (see below) eats everything for miles around, including all animals and vegetation. Normal attacks are with its two forelimb claws (1d12 points of damage each), a sweeping tail lash (2d12 points of damage), a savage bite (5d10 points of damage plus acts as a sword of sharpness, severing a limb on a natural attack roll of 18 or better), and two thrusting horn attacks (1d10 points of damage each).
Once every turn, the normally slow-moving tarrasque can rush forward at a movement rate of 15, making all horn attacks cause double damage and trampling anything underfoot for 4d10 points of crushing damage.
The mere sight of the tarrasque causes creatures with less than 3 levels or Hit Dice to be paralyzed with fright (no saving throw) until it is out of their vision. Creatures of 3 or more levels or Hit Dice flee in panic, although those of 7 or more levels or Hit Dice that manage to succeed with a saving throw vs. paralyzation are not affected (though they often still decide to run away).
The tarrasque's carapace is exceptionally tough and highly reflective. Bolts and rays such as lightning bolts, cones of cold, and even magic missiles are useless against it. The reflection is such that 1 in 6 of these attacks actually bounces directly back at the caster (affecting him normally), while the rest bounce off harmlessly to the sides and into the air.
The tarrasque is also immune to all heat and fire, and it regenerates lost hit points at a rate of 1 hit point per round. Only enchanted weapons (+1 or better) have any hope of harming the tarrasque. The Tarrasque is totally immune to all psionics.
Habitat/Society: It is fortunate that the tarrasque is active only for short periods of time. Typically, the monster comes forth to forage for a week or two, ravaging the countryside for miles around. The tarrasque then seeks a hidden lair underground and lies dormant, sleeping for 5d4 months before coming forth again. Once every decade or so, the monster is particularly active, staying awake for several months. Thereafter its period of dormancy is 4d4 years unless disturbed. The ratio of active to dormant states seems to be about 1:30.
Ecology: Slaying of the tarrasque is said to be possible only if the monster is reduced to -30 or fewer hit points and a wish is then used. Otherwise, even the slightest piece of the tarrasque can regenerate and restore the monster completely. Legend says that a great treasure can be extracted from the tarrasque's carapace. The upper portion, treated with acid and then heated in a furnace, is thought to yield gems (10d10 diamonds of 1,000 gp base value each). The underbelly material, mixed with the creature's blood and adamantite, is said to produce a metal that can be forged by master dwarven blacksmiths into 1d4 shields of +5 enchantment. It takes two years to manufacture each shield, and the dwarves aren't likely to do it for free.
It is hoped that the tarrasque is a solitary creation, some hideous abomination unleashed by the dark arts or by elder, forgotten gods to punish all of nature. The elemental nature of the tarrasque leads the few living tarrasque experts to speculate that the elemental princes of evil have something to do with its existence. In any case, the location of the tarrasque remains a mystery, as it rarely leaves witnesses in its wake, and nature quickly grows over all remnants of its presence. It is rumored that the tarrasque is responsible for the extinction of one ancient civilization, for the records of their last days spoke of a “great reptilian punisher sent by the gods to end the world”.
Note: Creatures with a negative THAC0 can only miss on a roll of a 1.
Basically you needed a high level party everyone needed magic weapons, and spell casters really didn't have the tools needed to do much to it.
And here I was, reading from your picture before scrolling down...
Oh, I’d forgotten about those old damage numbers like damage 5-50. Early D&D editions were responsible for many of my math word problem solving skills when they just expressed a range instead of telling you what to roll. Like 2-7 means a d6+1, while 2-8 means 2d4.
yeah... I wanted to show from my copy, but it needed to be typed out for easy reading. I also have the 3rd and 4th books on my desk... but the time it took for 2nd means I will pass on that idea.
edit:
I was tempted to translate the numbers into 5e but it would loose it's authentic feel. As a DM I do like to add back some more dangerous parts of older monsters into my games, both to change it up and to foil meta gaming.