That would be because 5e, and 5.5e have significanty nerfed the abilites of all Monsters, in an attempt to balance the game for the players. In the past the creature was by far the most difficult monster to fight.
Not really. Sure, it had high damage and was hugely durable, but it had the same problems of poor ranged options and low mobility as every other version, and thus under realistic conditions a significant number of creatures would be more dangerous. The basic requirements to beat the Tarrasque, by edition, would be
AD&D: midlevel ranged fighter with access to flight and magic ammunition; regeneration 1 is not going to stop you unless you're grossly underlevel. Other than the Wish to finish it off, should generally be possible for two people before level 10.
3/3.5e: flight, enough ranged damage to deal with AC 35, DR 15/epic, SR 32, and regeneration 40. Not likely without multiple characters in the mid to upper teens; a level 17 party shouldn't have much trouble, as they have access to Wish/Miracle and plenty of firepower.
4e: cannot be effectively cheesed with flight due to a 200' radius earthbind aura, and ranged attacks in 4e were generally too limited to kite it at long ranges, so you're going to just have to fight it toe to toe... but it's relatively practical to do so, it lacks the ridiculous melee damage output of other editions.
5e: ranged fighter with sharpshooter (to stay outside of its bellow range), flight, and a magic weapon. Again, pretty practical for two people before level 10.
That would be because 5e, and 5.5e have significanty nerfed the abilites of all Monsters, in an attempt to balance the game for the players. In the past the creature was by far the most difficult monster to fight.
Not really. Sure, it had high damage and was hugely durable, but it had the same problems of poor ranged options and low mobility as every other version, and thus under realistic conditions a significant number of creatures would be more dangerous. The basic requirements to beat the Tarrasque, by edition, would be
AD&D: midlevel ranged fighter with access to flight and magic ammunition; regeneration 1 is not going to stop you unless you're grossly underlevel. Other than the Wish to finish it off, should generally be possible for two people before level 10.
3/3.5e: flight, enough ranged damage to deal with AC 35, DR 15/epic, SR 32, and regeneration 40. Not likely without multiple characters in the mid to upper teens; a level 17 party shouldn't have much trouble, as they have access to Wish/Miracle and plenty of firepower.
4e: cannot be effectively cheesed with flight due to a 200' radius earthbind aura, and ranged attacks in 4e were generally too limited to kite it at long ranges, so you're going to just have to fight it toe to toe... but it's relatively practical to do so, it lacks the ridiculous melee damage output of other editions.
5e: ranged fighter with sharpshooter (to stay outside of its bellow range), flight, and a magic weapon. Again, pretty practical for two people before level 10.
While you are not wrong in some of the things you are saying.
You have to be over level 7 to even face a Tarresque, and be lucky on the save. The next issue with your statment is to think level 7 is considered low level. 1st and 2nd were designed very differantly. The game was lethal to player characters at all levels, the XP curve was torcherous, and if you make it to level 10 by the end of a campaign your DM was being generous. Early D&D was balanced around a much differant expectation. Some Races had level caps on some classes usually around 10. So yeah a level 10 pair of players could defeat a Tarresque, but that would be the crown of a 4 year campaign.
IIRC, under 2nd Edition rules you also needed enchanted arrows to damage a creature that was immune to nonmagical weapons. Shooting nonmagical arrows out of a magical bow gave the bow's bonus to the attack and damage rolls, but they were still considered nonmagical for the purposes of what they could harm. So you needed to expend a small fortune's worth of magical ammo into the thing in the suggested tactic.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
You have to be over level 7 to even face a Tarresque, and be lucky on the save. The next issue with your statment is to think level 7 is considered low level.
When did I say level 7 is low level? I said it was midlevel. AD&D level bands are much the same as 3e and 5e -- low level is 1-4, mid level is 5-10, high level is 11+.
You have to be over level 7 to even face a Tarresque, and be lucky on the save. The next issue with your statment is to think level 7 is considered low level.
When did I say level 7 is low level? I said it was midlevel. AD&D level bands are much the same as 3e and 5e -- low level is 1-4, mid level is 5-10, high level is 11+.
Alright, let me explain how the D&D leveling experience in 1st, AD&D, and 2nd went.
Each class had it's own XP table, and had differant rules on what counted for XP. Thieves got XP for successful thief rolls, Clerics for Clerical stuff etc. Wizards had the Fastest XP chart as they were by far the weakest class to a degree that was significate, and they only became a threat after level 3rd level magic was unlocked.
The games were balanced around starting as a level 1, and you might level to level 2 after 1500~2500 XP earned.
Chart for XP earned from AD&D DMG
Hit Dice or Level
XP Value
Less than 1-1
7
1-1 to 1
15
1+1 to 2
35
2+1 to 3
65
3+1 to 4
120
4+1 to 5
175
5+1 to 6
270
6+1 to 7
420
7+1 to 8
650
8+1 to 9
975
9+1 to 10+
1,400
11 to 12+
2,000
13+
3,000 + 1,000 per additional Hit Die over 13
I'm sure you can maths this and see why it took a long time between levels.
The DM was also encrouaged to give individual XP, so yes some players might be level 3 while others were still level 1.... and that is not counting Multi-Class. (Which had it's own things which slowed down progression)
You could take all of High School going from level 1 to 4 playing an Elf Wizard having 1 hour sessions every wednesday, with teacher suppervision. Just saying, old DnD was very differant.
Also all the tables were made by hand and count as art not formula, Gygax knew how to copyright what should have been unable to be copyrighted.
The XP tree was then a expotential growth chart soft caping at level 11 with a hard cap at 20, and 30 if the DM owned specific books. Which was effectively the Max level. The game was balanced around level 11 being the max level. Yes they had released books and material all the way to level 30, but this was because people only played 1 character, and after 20 years of one character they made rules allowing them to get higher levels.
I should point out going on normal leveling curves, with a 4 hour session once a week, starting at 1, it would take 6 months to get to level 5, a year to get to level 9, 2 years to get to 11, and about 10 years to get to 20. Level 30 material was for games that had been going for 10 years or more.
When you reaalize most games today last maybe a year, and the story goes to around to about 15~16 the same type of campaign in AD&D would have been level 8~9. Making the Tarrasque a cap stone fight at the end of a campaign. Which honestly was what all the giant monsters were for. ie Facing a Dragon, a Tarrasque, or other boss monster, this was usually a fight after defeating the last boss of a campaign BTW, allowing a player to use the legendary weapons earned from the Big Bad. Note for my most famous moment, the DM gave my elf thief a pair of daggers one had powerword "heal", and the other had powerword "kill" built into them. Only instead of following the spell rules, one blade had a chance to instant kill anything, while the other if they had a charge could restore life to anyone... The kill blade triggered on a Turtle Dragon last fight. Ah the memories. I was a level 4 thief 5 wizard.
Sadly that DM passed not long after that campaign, he was young too.
The thing is, the idea that a level 9 was a mid level in AD&D is false, that was the expected max level for most campaigns. By todays standards I would say a level 9 from that era would not translate to 5e or 5.5e well, but would be similar to a level 16~17. A party of level 16s can destroy anything in the 5e monster manual, and with only one exception any thing in the 5.5e monster manual. The one exception is a creature I have not used as DM, so have no clue how my players would deal with it.
Not really. Sure, it had high damage and was hugely durable, but it had the same problems of poor ranged options and low mobility as every other version, and thus under realistic conditions a significant number of creatures would be more dangerous. The basic requirements to beat the Tarrasque, by edition, would be
While you are not wrong in some of the things you are saying.
You have to be over level 7 to even face a Tarresque, and be lucky on the save. The next issue with your statment is to think level 7 is considered low level. 1st and 2nd were designed very differantly. The game was lethal to player characters at all levels, the XP curve was torcherous, and if you make it to level 10 by the end of a campaign your DM was being generous. Early D&D was balanced around a much differant expectation. Some Races had level caps on some classes usually around 10.
So yeah a level 10 pair of players could defeat a Tarresque, but that would be the crown of a 4 year campaign.
IIRC, under 2nd Edition rules you also needed enchanted arrows to damage a creature that was immune to nonmagical weapons. Shooting nonmagical arrows out of a magical bow gave the bow's bonus to the attack and damage rolls, but they were still considered nonmagical for the purposes of what they could harm. So you needed to expend a small fortune's worth of magical ammo into the thing in the suggested tactic.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
When did I say level 7 is low level? I said it was midlevel. AD&D level bands are much the same as 3e and 5e -- low level is 1-4, mid level is 5-10, high level is 11+.
Not really, In 2E, "high level" hit around 8-9th level when you reached your maximum hit dice.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
Alright, let me explain how the D&D leveling experience in 1st, AD&D, and 2nd went.
Each class had it's own XP table, and had differant rules on what counted for XP. Thieves got XP for successful thief rolls, Clerics for Clerical stuff etc. Wizards had the Fastest XP chart as they were by far the weakest class to a degree that was significate, and they only became a threat after level 3rd level magic was unlocked.
The games were balanced around starting as a level 1, and you might level to level 2 after 1500~2500 XP earned.
Chart for XP earned from AD&D DMG
3,000 + 1,000 per additional Hit Die over 13
I'm sure you can maths this and see why it took a long time between levels.
The DM was also encrouaged to give individual XP, so yes some players might be level 3 while others were still level 1.... and that is not counting Multi-Class. (Which had it's own things which slowed down progression)
You could take all of High School going from level 1 to 4 playing an Elf Wizard having 1 hour sessions every wednesday, with teacher suppervision. Just saying, old DnD was very differant.
Also all the tables were made by hand and count as art not formula, Gygax knew how to copyright what should have been unable to be copyrighted.
The XP tree was then a expotential growth chart soft caping at level 11 with a hard cap at 20, and 30 if the DM owned specific books. Which was effectively the Max level. The game was balanced around level 11 being the max level. Yes they had released books and material all the way to level 30, but this was because people only played 1 character, and after 20 years of one character they made rules allowing them to get higher levels.
I should point out going on normal leveling curves, with a 4 hour session once a week, starting at 1, it would take 6 months to get to level 5, a year to get to level 9, 2 years to get to 11, and about 10 years to get to 20. Level 30 material was for games that had been going for 10 years or more.
When you reaalize most games today last maybe a year, and the story goes to around to about 15~16 the same type of campaign in AD&D would have been level 8~9. Making the Tarrasque a cap stone fight at the end of a campaign. Which honestly was what all the giant monsters were for. ie Facing a Dragon, a Tarrasque, or other boss monster, this was usually a fight after defeating the last boss of a campaign BTW, allowing a player to use the legendary weapons earned from the Big Bad. Note for my most famous moment, the DM gave my elf thief a pair of daggers one had powerword "heal", and the other had powerword "kill" built into them. Only instead of following the spell rules, one blade had a chance to instant kill anything, while the other if they had a charge could restore life to anyone... The kill blade triggered on a Turtle Dragon last fight. Ah the memories. I was a level 4 thief 5 wizard.
Sadly that DM passed not long after that campaign, he was young too.
The thing is, the idea that a level 9 was a mid level in AD&D is false, that was the expected max level for most campaigns. By todays standards I would say a level 9 from that era would not translate to 5e or 5.5e well, but would be similar to a level 16~17. A party of level 16s can destroy anything in the 5e monster manual, and with only one exception any thing in the 5.5e monster manual. The one exception is a creature I have not used as DM, so have no clue how my players would deal with it.