Monstrous Compendium Vol. 1: Spelljammer Creatures
Frozen Sick
D&D Beyond Basic Rules
Basic Rules (2014)
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Monstrous Compendium Vol. 1: Spelljammer CreaturesFrozen SickD&D Beyond Basic RulesBasic Rules (2014)Sign in to view your library & saved favorites.
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Alchemist Artificer has so much hate for no reason. Alchemist is a great support subclass that can make powerful Abjurer-support wizard-multiclass.Their potions are prety good, their healing spells are very good and they are balanced with controll and annoying spells, #rayofsickness. They are some times unusefull if they don't roll good for their elixir but at a bit higher levels they give Temporary HP with every single potion. Also you later buff some of your damaging spells and you gain a huge enhance to your healing spells AND at level 15 you are immune to the annoying poisoned condition and you gain resilience to acid and poison damage.
If i could control what my first potion is instead of it being random, and if i could make pb/lr potions instead of 1/lr before i eat into my few and far between half-caster spell slots, then you would have my interest.
But much as i love artificer, armorer is my favorite, cartographer might be a great option for multiclass. And alchemist is just too weak for me.
"make powerful Abjurer-support wizard-multiclass"
Maybe. But that points to it being a not-great subclass.
Its like 2 levels of warlock, and then go full sorcerer, bard, or paladin. The 2 level warlock dip is way more common than a full warlock
OK Armorer is my favorite subclass for Artificier but if you give a spell slot during a long rest to create another elixir you give it the effects you want.This puts the character to a different, boring but cool for Wizardry nerds playstyle. It isn't my favorite subclass and I rarely play Artificiers but this subclass isn't bad.
Well, one of the changes in the 5.5e version was increasing the number of free ones you get per Long Rest, and while it's not quite PB/LR, it's close. (You start with 2 and get a third at level 5, a fourth at level 9, and a fifth at level 15.)
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I'm talking about Tasha's artificier, I don't have the Eberron version.
Did not realize ebberron updated the alchemist. More potions is better, but making all those potions some random feature basically nerfs the subclass.
The main feature of the subclass is randomized. That makes it nearly useless. Wild Magic Sorcery has a randomized side effect, but at least the main spell you cast usually works normally.
Alchemist would be like wild magic sorcery chooses what level spell to cast, but then roll on table to find out which specific spell you actually cast. Some players might find it fun, but not my kind of jam.
Eberron: Forge of the Artificer has an updated 5.5e version of the entire Artificer class and all four subclasses, plus a new fifth subclass (Cartographer). It's worth looking into as there have been a lot of improvements over either 5e version.
I don't like the randomness of it either. I don't think it makes much thematic sense, and mechanically it only seems to serve to limit the subclass's effectiveness.
pronouns: he/she/they
The problem is that (I think) a lot of people playing an alchemist don't necessarily want the "throw it all in a cauldron and see what happens" angle.
There's a "you decide" option already on the table, and Boldness and Resilience are both pretty universally useful buffs; that means you've got even odds per roll of getting a non-niche potion. If you absolutely must have a particular one, spend a 1st level slot for it, that's about even value imo.
Ok. All the potion options are equivalent to level 1 spells. Except the flight one. But otherwise, its a break even scenario.
I could just caste healing word, or longstrider, or bless.
Whats the advantage of being an alchemist there?
Armorerr gets the same number spell slots, but also gets arcane armor so they can wear plate and a shield, have a 21 ac, and a set of weapons that ise INT for attack and damage rolls.
Just play an armorer and cast longstrider with a slot. Its way better option.
You wanna make alchemist on par with armorer, they need to do artificer_level/2 potion slots at the end of a long rest, and the alchemist can use 1 slot for a level1 equivalent, or 2 potion slots for a level 2 like potion, or 3 potion slots for a level 3 like potion.
So at artificer 10 i can make a potion like dragons breath, a potion like mage armor, and a level 1 like healing potion.
Thats when alchemist gets on par with iron man/armorer.
Sort of true for 2014, not so for 2024.
In 2024, you can't cast Bless or Healing Word as an Artificer (without further investment or Subclass features), so that's not really an option anyway. Even if you could (or you're willing to use feats etc to get them), the Alchemist can do this before the battle and thus not need to spend a Spell slot when you use it - meaning you can use your Action to cast a levelled spell spell, if you wish. Also the elixir can also improve. Healing is better straight off - d8s instead of d4s improving at L9 and above with extra dice, while the others (excluding Fly, which is a 3rd(!) level spell) are equivalent to L1 spells until you reach L9 where they get better).
Now, I'm not saying the Alchemist fills me with excitement or anything. It's not brilliant (at best) and even if it were strong, the benefits beyond the elixirs are pretty boring. But to imply that there's no advantage to being an Alchemist ignores what's actually there.
If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
Just for the sake of clarity: Bless and Healing Word weren't on the general Artificer spell list in 2014 either. Healing Word is on the Alchemist always-prepared list in both the 2014 and 2024 versions.
pronouns: he/she/they
Four additional points. First, the elixirs have better action economy than the comparable spells - the elixirs take a bonus action to use on oneself or on others, whereas the comparable spells require a full action. Second, you are not required to keep the elixirs on your person. Rouge going off on their own? Give them a potion that might help them survive, even if they are otherwise out of range of support Magic. Fourth, the elixirs bypass the risks that occur if you drink multiple potions with extended durations. Finally, the ability scales that you ultimately get 5 random potions, each with a 1/3 chance of being what you want, and up to four chosen potions. Nine potions per day is not too shabby.
Overall, I think the subclass is fairly weak, with a mix of abilities that severely fall off in power at higher levels (a complaint that can be made of many half-casters). But this particular ability seems fine - not my personal power fantasy, but if you want the fantasy of someone who can slap together potions at a moment’s notice, this fits the bill.
And for additional clarity, Healing Word (which is a bonus action to cast) is on the Cartographer's always-prepared list for 2024 also.
If i want bless and healing word, id take a 1 level cleric dip, which would add a bunch of cantrips and spells, add spell slots of a full caster, and then go armorer.
Most of the potions are a first level spell in power, so burning a 1st level spell as a half caster to get a furst level potion is mostly a break evem scenario. And you dont have a lot of slots so, its really limiting.
You dont have to concentrate for the potions, but longstrider, healing word, dont get any benefit from that. Potion or spell slot, you get extra movement with no concentration. Potion or slot, younget healing without concentration.
Maybe leverage the concentration bit, make the potion table give you potions equivalent to concentration spells.
If an alchemist could burn 2 slots and make a potion of dragons breath, no concentration? Thats giving me something more for my 2 slots. (Limit it to some formula based on number of artificer levels so people dont go alchemist for rhe concentration potion and then switch to a full caster) without the no-concentration benefit, i might as well cast dragons breath with a slot and break even. Healing word or potion, both a level 1 slot. Not much buff there.
Its the concentration-spell-effect-without-concentration that makes alchemist interesting.
Let alchemists at level 5 make a "potion of concentration". For every spell slot you put into the potion, thats one level of spell slot you can cast without concentration.
2 slots to make a potion of concentrstion, and give it to a wizard who drinks it and then casts suggestion without needing concentration. NOW youve got my attention..
But burning a level 1 slot to get a level 1 healing potion is not worth an entire subclass to me. You dont have a lot of slots to begin with, and a 1 for 1 trade with little benefit is a dissappointing subclass.
Consider the obvious point that rather than one caster trying to use all of these concurrently, they can be distributed to the players so everyone just spends a Bonus Action drinking the potions; that’s a pretty sharp bump to action economy over one person trying to carry the whole load.
So, artificers are handing out alchemical inspiration, like a pharmecutically inspired bard.
Except bards are full casters so when theyre out of inspiration, they have a lot of slots to play with and support with. When the alchemist runs out of potions, they have simple weapons and cantrips.
Actually, if these potions are like bardic inspiration, make them part of the base artificer class. All artificers can make these potions. Just like all bards gecan hand out inspiration. And then the subclass basically controls how you fight when you run out of potions.
That'd be reasonable. And it would make artificers a bit more interesting. Artificers start out wxtremely weak in the esrly game. Some potions would help that.
Artificers also have Infusions; that’s a rather significant detail to conveniently disregard if we’re assessing performance based on class features as well as subclass features.
Infusions are great if you are in a scarce-magic world. And if your sm will let you play one.
If magic items are fairly easy to get ahold of, you will quickly outpace what you and your party can simply buy, and your infusions will be a bag of holding and a pipe of rememberance, while most of your party has used alll 3 of their attunement slots
At level 14 you can make rare magic infusions. But you can probably buy very rare magic items by level 14