Unearthed Arcana: Villainous Options

Looking at the Path of The Lich, it seems too safe.  Everything in the Lore says that the path to becoming a Lich is fraught with danger, many way points that must go perfect or really bad things happen.  Yet the Path of the Lich doesn't seem to have any disastrous outcomes.  Yes, it has some steps that might be near impossible but none of the steps have ah "Oh S%$&!!! and your soul is shredded into 10,000 pieces and scattered across the multiverse" outcomes.

Yeah, the start and endpoints are too early on imo; it's supposed to be top shelf magic, not something a tier 1 caster can start the ball rolling for. I understand the design logic- level 4-12 is the main play zone- just doesn't fit for lichdom imo.

Undead grasp is a weird one for me. I like the theme it fits liches. But, if you are playing a gish like valor bard or blade singer your cantrip being a chill touch you can slap a paralyze on for the low low cost of a 1st level spell it starts feeling maybe a bit much. For non gish wizards its not terrible but you want to avoid melee so it likely wont come up much. 

I mean, Hold Person is a 2nd level spell with a 60 ft range, so I think 1st level if you have to be in melee to do it isn't too unbalanced. If the current casting rule is "you can only spend one spell slot a turn", can't even do Misty Step shenanigans that much with it.

Quote from The_Ace_of_Rogues >>

Yeah, the start and endpoints are too early on imo; it's supposed to be top shelf magic, not something a tier 1 caster can start the ball rolling for. I understand the design logic- level 4-12 is the main play zone- just doesn't fit for lichdom imo.

 I don't have a problem with the Start point, but the end point I agree.  If I was designing this, the Path of The Lich would have a lot more steps, would end at a higher level, and would include some really bad outcomes.  Becoming a Lich has always been portrayed as a path requiring serious dedication and power

Quote from James49478 >>

Quote from The_Ace_of_Rogues >>

Yeah, the start and endpoints are too early on imo; it's supposed to be top shelf magic, not something a tier 1 caster can start the ball rolling for. I understand the design logic- level 4-12 is the main play zone- just doesn't fit for lichdom imo.

 I don't have a problem with the Start point, but the end point I agree.  If I was designing this, the Path of The Lich would have a lot more steps, would end at a higher level, and would include some really bad outcomes.  Becoming a Lich has always been portrayed as a path requiring serious dedication and power

There's basically zero chance WOTC is going to include "really bad outcomes" in a player feat. This isn't Traveller

No, but it's still weird to have the path to lichdom require nothing beyond taking a couple of feats.

Quote from 6thLyranGuard >>

No, but it's still weird to have the path to lichdom require nothing beyond taking a couple of feats.

It's a weird balancing act that I don't think quite works, because a PC lich or death knight isn't going to be as powerful as a Lord Soth or Acerarak (which is generally what people think of when they hear those monster types), especially at lower levels. They're trying to offer a way to delve into that sort of progression

Having "really bad outcomes" baked in doesn't make sense from that perspective, because almost by definition a PC version of a lich is someone who avoided those outcomes (unless it makes sense for the story they're telling with the character, in which case it's in the DMs wheelhouse anyway), but the result is a 'lich in training' sort of vibe instead

To be fair, there's a CR 11 Death Knight Aspirant, so I'd say that progression works out for "you've crossed a threshold, but you're still not the stuff of legends yet". Doesn't work for liches because they don't usually have the same intermediary state.

Quote from AntonSirius >>

Quote from 6thLyranGuard >>

No, but it's still weird to have the path to lichdom require nothing beyond taking a couple of feats.

 

It's a weird balancing act that I don't think quite works, because a PC lich or death knight isn't going to be as powerful as a Lord Soth or Acerarak (which is generally what people think of when they hear those monster types), especially at lower levels. They're trying to offer a way to delve into that sort of progression

Having "really bad outcomes" baked in doesn't make sense from that perspective, because almost by definition a PC version of a lich is someone who avoided those outcomes (unless it makes sense for the story they're telling with the character, in which case it's in the DMs wheelhouse anyway), but the result is a 'lich in training' sort of vibe instead

 I don't think that lichdom (if allowed for PCs) should require a chance for a bad end either, but it should require a character to make sacrifices and perform profane acts that most folk would cringe from in order to get.  It should really be a prestige class that requires you to already be a powerful spellcaster in order to qualify.