Monstrous Compendium Vol. 1: Spelljammer Creatures
Frozen Sick
D&D Beyond Basic Rules
Basic Rules (2014)
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Monstrous Compendium Vol. 1: Spelljammer CreaturesFrozen SickD&D Beyond Basic RulesBasic Rules (2014)Sign in to view your library & saved favorites.
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Both of these feat chains are from the same book, so I wanted to compare them for balance purposes.
Spellfire Spark is an Origin feat.
Magic Absorption.
Spellfire Flame.
It has limited use for Flame. You get a scalable damage cantrip.
Absorption works once per turn. I'm thinking that's when every enemy takes a turn.
Also, depending on how you define "magical effect", it will make a +1-weapon equal to or worse than a non-magical weapon in damage.
Spellfire Adept is a general feat
Fueled Spellfire.
Searing Spellfire..
Fueled Can add extra damage to ALL Radiant damage. EDIT: Spell damage
Zhentarim Ruffian is an Origin feat.
Exploit Opening.
Family First.
You can do more damage, using Hit Dice, on an Opportunity Attack which you can only do once per round and may not happen at all. EDIT: No hit dice. EDIT: Re-roll dice and take highest.
I like First. Advantage for the party on Initiative is great.
Zhentarim Tactics is a General feat.
Retaliate.
Versatile Merc.
I like Retaliate and Merc. The Opportunity attack has its limitations as stated previously. Also, imagine you're a Fighter with mid to upper 20's in AC.
You would have permanent Expertise in a skill, I think. However, it doesn't say you can change the skill. My guess is you can. EDIT: You can change on a long rest.
There seem to be substantial benefits to using Spellfire over Zhentarim. I would argue even for melee classes. Except for Barbarians.
We are all in danger!
Couple things to point out here:
It's only radiant damage from spells, not all radiant damage, and it's only once per turn. (That last part is particularly relevant because with Spellfire Spark you can cast Sacred Flame twice in the same turn, but you'd only be able to get this damage boost on one of them.)
The fact that this benefit is only applicable to damage from spells and requires you to spend Hit Point Dice to get it means that it may not as useful on a melee-combat-focused character, since they're unlikely to be using spells as much and may want to save their Hit Point Dice for healing themselves.
It very much does say you can change it on a Long Rest. It would just be a worse version of Skill Expert otherwise.
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I was adding stuff without the entire description available in the post. I had to remove stuff from my first try, due to copyright issues. I meant to say that Spark is more likely to be taken on melee characters for the damage. Absorption can be used every time an enemy hits you with a spell or magical effect. Thanks.
Pointing out the imbalance between those two chains was my point.
We are all in danger!
I think your problem is twofold. First, not reading abilities you are evaluating - a lot of your questions could be answered by just reading the text. Second, you are evaluating the items individually and not in the context of their design. They are not designed to be balanced - they are designed for a specific function and do different things. You might as well be comparing a bolt to a gear.
Spellfire is… just not great for melee characters. You are spending valuable feat slots to get an insignificant amount of damage that also burns a valuable bonus action (particularly problematic for Monks and Rogues, but also plenty of other subclasses). Sure, you also might get an average of 2.5 damage reduction per turn also, but situational damage reduction of such a low value is generally going to become irrelevant fairly quickly.
The second level is useless for most melee characters, other than Paladins or Melee Clerics. Unless you are consistently dealing radiant damage, you do not get much out of it - the extra damage is too small to really matter, and ignoring resistance is situational and really only necessary if you are so focused on one damage type resistance would cripple you. That is clearly what the feat line is designed for - those who are going heavily into radiant and want additional sources and ways to punch damage through.
Zhent Ruffian is I have some game design problems with. It is based around a resource that, other than humans, is DM dependent. That is just bad game design. That said, the re-roll is powerful on the right character - Zhents attract roguish sorts, and that is clearly what this ability was designed for. Re-rolls are at their strongest when lots of dice are involved, and a rogue should be looking to get opportunity attacks to get extra sneak attacks in per turn.
The second level gives you more ways to get opportunity attacks (and a passive defensive buff against smart monsters that might not target you after they realize it comes at a cost). It also gives expertise you can change per day to suit your needs, which is fantastic.
All told, I think both feats are really well designed - they are something that can be pretty good with the right character, but are not so generically good as to be auto-includes, and really do not work well outside of builds they are designed for. Frankly, I think more feats should be designed like these - feats that can make specific characters sing, but will not show up time and time again.
Yes, I understand what you're saying. I was saying that I disagree with that — that I don't think it's a particularly good choice for melee-focused characters who want a damage boost — for the reasons I stated in my previous post.
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Looking at the Magic Absorption benefit of Spellfire Spark, I think it’s actually much more niche than it seems at first glance. It reduces damage from spells and magical effects. A “Magical Effect”, according to the Glossary, is an effect created “by a spell, a magic item or a phenomenon that a rule labels as magical”. However, a lot of monsters that appear to be spellcasters in the 5.24 Monster Manual use attacks that are not spells and not explicitly labelled as “magical” (e.g., the Mage’s Arcane Burst”). Strictly, and counterintuitively, that’s not “magical”, so not eligible for Magic Absorption.
Note that hitting someone with a magic weapon is not a magical effect, it's a mundane effect (you don't need magic weapon to hit someone with a weapon) that is enhanced by magic.
Magic absorption isn't nothing, but for a fifth level PC you have to be hit by magic 4 times across 4 separate rounds for it to average as good as Tough (+10 hp at level 5). The bonus action sacred flame is the major benefit, particularly for a spellcaster who lacks other high value bonus actions.
@Caerwyn Thank you for pointing out my mistake in my OP. I already did that by editing it and providing an explanation. I didn't say that you had to use SFS if you have another BA to use. Are you saying that Family First is "a passive defensive buff against smart monsters that might not target you after they realize it comes at a cost" Or Exploit Opening? FF is a buff, but I don't think it will discourage enemies.
@ThelenyiWhinlaw Thank you for pointing out that not all magic is magic. Magic Absorption isn't as powerful by that definition.
@Patnagruel666 A +1 weapon produces a magical effect. The 1d4 is subtracted every time you are hit by a spell or magical effect. Magic Absorption isn't like an Opportunity Attack or another reaction. Those are defined as "once per round". Take a +3 weapon for example. You can pay thousands of golds for that weapon. Rolling a 4 for MA every time you're hit makes that weapon worse than a normal one. One more way to take damage away from melee characters.
Bottom line is It's the same thing. This spell or feat sucks. That damage isn't worth taking that spell or feat. @Pent you're right MA isn't nothing but then you seem to say it is nothing. It seems to be lost on everyone. It's extra damage and spend hit dice for more damage vs the possibility for extra damage and the possibility for another attack.
@wagnarokkr It does not say you can change skills. It says, "When you finish a Long Rest, choose a skill in which you have proficiency. You have Expertise in that skill until you finish your next Long Rest." It is not implicit, it is ambiguous. They could have just said, "You can change to a different skill at the end of each long rest." You and I have argued this for some time in this forum. I couldn't let that go. Do you work for WotC? You seem very confident is your conclusions. LOL
We are all in danger!
Neither? That is in the section where I was discussing the second level of the feat tree - Zhen Tactics’ retaliation ability. I think you also missed my point on SFS, which is that a lot of melee characters are built around bonus action use, so it is not as effective for melee as you seemed to imply.
Could you explain what it is that makes this ambiguous? It seems quite clearly worded. Implicit in the word “choose” is the ability to make a different choice, that is, to change.
When you finish a long rest, two things happen: (1) you no longer have Expertise in the skill you chose after the previous long rest and (2) you choose a skill in which you will have Expertise. The only restriction on that choice is that you must already have proficiency in that skill. Therefore, you could choose the skill you chose after the last long rest or you could choose a different one.
It says that when you finish a Long Rest — i.e., every time you wake up in the morning — you can choose a skill to have expertise in until the end of your next Long Rest. Is there a meaningful difference between changing which skill you have expertise in each day, and each day choosing a skill to have expertise in until the end of the day? I admit I could be missing something here, but I don't think there is.
For the record, I do not work for Wizards of the Coast, nor have I ever done so in the past. I'm confident in my conclusion about this because I'm fluent in English and have been reading D&D rules for a long time.
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