Monstrous Compendium Vol. 1: Spelljammer Creatures
Frozen Sick
D&D Beyond Basic Rules
Basic Rules (2014)
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RolandtheCrownbreaker mentioned earlier that D&D has official releases of historically inspired material. There is an actual "The Crusades" campaign sourcebook for 2ed.
I'm not saying that the Cleric was fighting in battle before the demons showed up. It's more circumstantial that the Cleric just happened to be in town and chose to accompany the group when battling demons. Maybe he was on a Pilgrimage and the Crusader Knights were there to protect him or maybe he served as a Chaplain.
It doesn’t matter how they ended up there: clergy of either side of the conflict would not have received weapons, armor, and combat training alongside their vocational training. The D&D interpretation of a Cleric is fundamentally irreconcilable with an ordained member of any faith that participated in the Crusades.
While the average priest or monk focused on prayer, scripture, and pastoral duties, religious training often included basic self-defense and the use of simple weapons. This was partly for protection in dangerous environments and partly to avoid bloodshed in conflicts. In some cases, clerics were expected to be able to defend themselves or their communities.
Some rpgs have used History before like Weird Wars, World of Darkness Dark Ages and Ravenloft's Gothic Earth setting, I just thought it would be cool to use D&D.
It's apparently a really sensitive subject for some people so, I doubt you're gonna find much more serious of a conversation than you've already found.
Honestly, since none of us are in your group - we can't really say what they can handle for subject sensitivity. That's for you and them to decide.
The crusades are really just an example of a more general issue: incorporating real-world religion into a game is perilous. This is particularly true if you have people using divine magic, because there are two possibilities (either only followers of one god can perform miracles, or followers of all gods can perform miracles), and both options will offend people -- just a different set of people, depending on what choice you make.
Now, it is quite possible that there is an option that won't offend anyone in your play group, but the other problem is... the crusades aren't all that interesting if you aren't going to deal with religious conflicts.
Well, I was thinking that since this is using the D&D cosmology, followers of all Gods can perform miracles. Either way both sides of the Crusades worship the same God, they just have different ways of worshipping him. Now that I think of it the Order Domain Cleric would also fit the Abrahamic God.
Let us assume for a moment that your players are comfortable introducing real world religion to the game. You absolutely should but be dictating how they incorporate that religion by limiting their options to your own prescribed “correct” subclasses to worship the Abrahamic God. Particularly with monotheistic gods, their worship tends to be myriad - one need only look at the various Catholic monastic orders and differing beliefs to see this.
This level of micromanaging is particularly bad with matters of real world faith. It is made worse by the fact that you have ignored repeatedly the concerns about how faith and history can cause problems - the fact this topic has been raised multiple times and you have ignored it shows that, at best, you do not know how to resolve those concerns or, at worst, you simply do not care about them.
I also want to reiterate this - I think I am the only person on this thread with direct experience with this literal exact same topic - one of my players wanted to DM and tried to make a campaign set in the Turkish invasion of Hungary. This was under the most ideal conditions - our group contains multiple people who do not offend easily and several experts in history. It was still a bad idea even under conditions that, on paper, might be favorable to the proposal
The general concept is fine - as others have said, transplanting the basic concept of two religious factions into a fantasy world csn be a start to a campaign. You don’t need the Crusades and real world to do that… in fact, they just hold you, your players, and your game back.
I mean, I'm willing to grant that the group might not be particularly invested in the historical or theological significance of the campaign setting. There absolutely might be one or more players for whom it either is a hot button issue or will end up taking some element of it and and driving others crazy with how they handle it, but I think there's enough people out there without strong feelings about the era and such that it's workable as a piece of fiction for a small group sized audience.
My concern is that a) it's trying to enforce an "authentic" experience by cutting out > 90% of D&D's content, and then within the largely mundane tithe that's left there's still one full-caster, which both has all kinds of immersion issues to the ostensible "realism" of the setting and b) that the connotations of the Cleric having these powers in a Crusades setting could easily cause group friction since not only is there this one person who gets special powers while everyone else is running on extremely mundane kits, but them having the powers is a huge Chosen One flag for the setting. I'd strongly advise going either "historical fantasy" and allowing more fantastic player options so there's not the one special kid on the playground, or cutting Cleric out with the rest of the magic and having everyone stick with basic weapon-users.
Ok, let's establish one thing. "Why do I want this?" Are you trying to focus on "Christiam and Muslim co-operation in the face of evil" are you just enamored with the time period, do you really like history and want to play in parts of it?
When you answer this question then i think you and the rest of the people in this thread will better be able to form this idea into practice. I have done something similar in the past. I helped create and convert some 4E stuff into a "Biblepunk" RPG without stripping stuff from it. Wizards became "Battle chanters" or something like that. Sorcerers were "Thaumaturges" Warlock became "Heirophants" etc etc, and everyone got to play in an ancient Judea setting where they were battling Moloch.
Why did i do all this? Well I convinced some very religious acquaintances that D&D wasn't a tool of the Devil and that it was a ruleset for a game and then they wanted to try it. So we did, and it was very historical fantasy, but they had a blast. But here is the big part, i knew my goal going in, so i knew what changes needed to be made.
So just figure out, "What is my priority" "What do my players want" and "how much do i need to change or remove" so you know the scope of this proposition.
He/Him. Loooooooooong time Player.
The Dark days of the THAC0 system are behind us.
"Hope is a fire that burns in us all If only an ember, awaiting your call
To rise up in triumph should we all unite
The spark for change is yours to ignite."
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I like the premise that Earth exists in the D&D multiverse and I like historical fantasy and the idea of cooperation in the face of evil. I also limit the casting classes to Cleric because I'm not entirely sure about the Paladin class, I think it would be too much. Although the Oath of Devotion might fit the Knights Hospitaller and the Oath of the Crown might fit the Knights Templar and Teutonic Order. And as for how I would handle the issues of history I'd portray it much like real life with neither side of the crusades being completely good or evil, it's up to the players to decide which alignment their characters have.
“I like the idea” is an iffy basis for formulating a campaign with so many restrictions and potential hot buttons, because it ultimately matters more if the players will enjoy the idea.
And again, I’m not really sure why you think Cleric isn’t “too much”; figures who could do a fraction of what a 1st level Cleric can are somewhere between apocryphal and mythological in Abrahamic canon. It’s a really arbitrary line to say one specific casting subclass and nothing else magical fits for the PC side of things.
Can you explain what you mean by the paladins being too much (if any class is themed directly after the crusaders, it's the paladin!)?
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Well, actually Paladins are based on the 12 Paladins of Charlemagne.
that is not a refutation of the statement. "Fits the theme" and "Are based on" are two different propositions. Also with certain statements by jesus, everyone should have some access to divine power. the whole "faith can move mountains" and "you only need faith the size of a mustard seed..." ETC.
Knights who devote their life to the service of the church or mosque have more than a mustard seed worth i would think.
If you just don't want to bother with the paladin class then say so.
He/Him. Loooooooooong time Player.
The Dark days of the THAC0 system are behind us.
"Hope is a fire that burns in us all If only an ember, awaiting your call
To rise up in triumph should we all unite
The spark for change is yours to ignite."
Kalandra - The State of the World
Well, I suppose the Oath of Devotion might fit the Knights Hospitaller and the Oath of the Crown might fit the Knights Templar and Teutonic Order.
Well, the Paladins of Charlemagne don't actually date to Charlemagne (they appear to have been invented in the 12th century -- i.e. mid-crusades) and they aren't also the best example of D&D paladins, as they are not generally associated with feats such as laying on hands (a better template would be Galahad).
However, as far as 'too much' goes, D&D 'clerics' pretty much don't have any historical basis at all, the average D&D cleric can cast more spells in an afternoon than the number of miracles a medieval saint would be credited in a lifetime.
Well, I guess it also borrows from the Knights of the Round Table