wotc please consider making elemental shaman a cleric or druid

Quote from GeijerFeyLock >>

Quote from wagnarokkr >>

Quote from GeijerFeyLock >>

Pardon me, but in which book is the shaman in all of its options published?

This is a discussion of the way the Shaman class from World of Warcraft has been implemented in the (as yet unreleased) WoW D&D supplement. You can read more about it in this article: https://www.dndbeyond.com/posts/2256-become-a-champion-of-azeroth-with-these-13-world

 Ah ha, World of Warcraft. No wonder I could not find it under the Barbarian class (2014 rules and 2024 rules). My little gaming group has not yet decided whether we want to add that book to our bedside reading or not.

My comments, though, about a raging elemental shaman still hold. A Midwestern supercell thunderstorm is an ugly beast; during the summer, it spawns lightning bolt barrages, massive deluges of hail stones, multiple tornado vortices and massive amounts of rain. During the winter, it also dumps massive amounts of snow and ice as well as lightning blasts. (I have heard and felt thunder snow.)

By the way, that movie "Twister" does not convey the sheer terror of the tornado.

 

 personally I think they should have removed the whole barbarians can't cast/sustain spells while raging bit in 2024. but they didn't so it does not seem to fit on first glance. Though maybe this sub class removes that restriction while casting their spells and they get to be 1/3 casters or something. Still does not fit the vibe of the wow shaman imo which at least with 2 of its 3 specs played closer to a full caster. imo druid would fit best but even warlock would fit better than barbarian for a WoW shaman. not generic elemental shaman abilities but what they are emulating the wow shaman. 

I mean, if they didn't have the restriction, I expect there'd be a lot of gimmick 1 level Barbarian dip builds for casters just to get that resistance to PSB. There's certainly enough talk about "starting" as a Fighter for the heavy armor and Action Surge.

Since a barbarian, as defined by the 2024 PHB, is described as an avatar of primal fury, it would seem logical for there to be a connection between the barbarian, the druid, lycanthropes in general and shamans. Last time I checked, there was some sort of a connection in the Rashemi culture. 

As far as which Forgotten Realms deities would accept an elemental shaman cleric, the choices would be rather sparse: Silvanus (deity of wild, untamed nature), Malar (deity of wild beasts), Umberlee (deity of the open oceans and the storms found there), Talos (deity of storms). Of these deities, only Silvanus would be suitable for a PC.

When the Barbarian class was first introduced into D&D, they weren't even allowed to own magic items until higher levels. The class was expected to destroy them instead, and actively oppose wizardry in all its forms.

Fast forward to 5.5e, and now people want to give it spells? Whether you call it anger or something else, rage is supposed to make the Barbarian the strongest melee-centric class. Able to absorb LARGE amounts of damage.

If you want to play a Shaman-type character, you can - but the trade off is that you can't cast spells or concentrate on them during rage. Let's not turn one of the last pure melee classes into another caster class.

Yes, I know this is a discussion related to a WOW cross-over book (though the original post doesn't actually say that), but let's face it, many are hoping to use the sub-classes presented within in their regular games. I know the three players in my group that want to buy the book are extremely disapointed that all of our DMs (including me) have said we won't allow anything contained within and don't plan to purchase it. Of course, 'never say never', but at this time we don't want anything to make our games into WOW-Tabletop Edition (that's what 4e tried to do in a backhanded way, this is more blatant).

Quote from UnkKnellnapper >>

 tbh we are better off supporting 3rd party homebrew stuff then we are supporting WOTC at this point. Who here really plans to pay for old subclasses and "class skins" its basically like buying the right to flavor a class differently. They have added nothing to this book worth even $30. The amount of stuff they have added for these two large labels slapped on is sad. Everything in this book could have been made in 3 weeks max by a group of 3 experienced people easy. 

I'm buying this sourcebook for the same reason I buy any other sourcebook - it does most of the work for me. That includes most of the work of convincing one of my DMs to let me use its content in a game or even being able to use it to theorycraft online, because of it being 1st-party those hurdles are a great deal smaller. And for me it is well worth the price, if it is not for you that's fine, this is an opt-in hobby.

I do however find it pretty specious of you to claim that 9 subclasses (7 of which are brand new to the game) can be knocked out in 3 weeks by 3 people with anything remotely resembling quality, never mind everything else we know is going to be in here like species, backgrounds, feats, spells, variants, maps etc.

Quote from GeijerFeyLock >>

Pardon me, but in which book is the shaman in all of its options published?

This is only my opinion, of course, but as a long time resident of the American Midwest, I can definitely see a valid reason for plopping the elemental shaman into the barbarian class. Taking as an extreme example, the atmospheric terror of the Midwest, the supercell thunderstorm, I can definitely see a raging elemental shaman being a mortal threat to enemies and allies alike, with lightning bolts dropping at random (3d10 feet from the shaman) and in direction (1d8, 1 being North of the shaman, 2 being Northeast of the shaman and so on in a circle around the shaman). Chance to hit being 1d20 + Proficiency Bonus + Spell Modifier. The lightning bolt attack can alternate with a hail storm and with a tornado blast.

In short, the elemental shaman will be a character that every one AVOIDS.

To be clear, nobody is saying that storms/elements are a bad thematic fit for the Barbarian class. What we're saying is that, in the Warcraft universe, Elemental Shamans are spellcasters, and that is what makes this particular combination a bad fit. Enhancement Shaman as a Barbarian actually fits perfectly, as they channel the powers of storms and other violent natural phenomena (like volcanoes) through their weapons. In other words, both use the elements to attack; elemental shamans just do it directly and from range. It's a mechanical mismatch, not a thematic one. 

Quote from HarmAssassin >>

Yes, I know this is a discussion related to a WOW cross-over book (though the original post doesn't actually say that), but let's face it, many are hoping to use the sub-classes presented within in their regular games. I know the three players in my group that want to buy the book are extremely disapointed that all of our DMs (including me) have said we won't allow anything contained within and don't plan to purchase it. Of course, 'never say never', but at this time we don't want anything to make our games into WOW-Tabletop Edition (that's what 4e tried to do in a backhanded way, this is more blatant).

 I want to read them to be sure of this, but I am 1000% planning to use the new Guardian/Feral Moon Druid templates in my non-WoW games.